WordWolf

Of course you're not. You sure are tense right now. You haven't even drunk your milk...

As requested, "forking" off a different topic's derail.

Mark, before you posted all that, did you consider the idea of maybe honoring the requests of a few posters and maybe starting a new thread to avoid completely derailing this one? With the way you posted stuff in quotes like that, it's harder to cut/paste what you just wrote into a new thread.....

The obvious other answers include that twi doesn't want to spend time on other people so they don't WANT to open dialogues online. Splinters don't either- and when they open them, they shut them down again. And in twi, if they catch you online talking to people, they lean on you until you shut down your dialogue. (Anyone remember the "Family Tables" messageboard?) Finally, most of the people on twi staff are clueless at technology. The most intricate things they do nowadays is read all the posts at the GSC and follow links to see if they can find someone new to intimidate. (Most of the stuff they shut down was all discovered by them reading our posts because they can't use a search engine correctly.) As for the google rankings being different, google switched their algorithms some time back. This prevented people from moving sites up the rankings on purpose, since that allowed for pranks and for advertisers to manipulate the results. One consequence was that a lot of legitimate first results moved down a page or 2.

This isn't the thread for it, but if someone's going to make a serious claim for it (I'm skeptical it can be done to my satisfaction, but anything's possible) they'd need to address what I think are some clear verses in both the Gospels and Revelation (2 places twi'ers are notably weak, and some ex-twi'ers are as well.) My point was that we're looking for God to fit into neat explanations we can understand, and he's far more complex than we CAN understand. A small child has a better chance of understanding why his parents "obviously" had him hurt getting shots than we do getting God to fit in our little boxes so we can answer ALL our questions.

I'm not sure they CURRENTLY have a copy of the documents. I certainly do not, and the person, last I heard, wants their privacy a lot, so I can't tell what I DO know about who they were and how they got ahold of them. There's enough "cold, hard facts" just going from what twi documented in its "history" books to warrent leaving twi- "the way:living in love", "vp and me", and "born again to serve".

Depends on when you were in. It wasn't released before the exodus of 1988-1989. If you were in during the 90s, you might have seen it.

He mentioned once on a subject that someone once contacted him in a hotel. (I think this was from pfal.) They sent him a note saying that if he gave them an hour, they'd show him he was incorrect on a subject. He said he "didn't waste his time on them." IIRC, it was one time he claimed he'd forgotten more about Scripture than they'd ever know. He made that claim a few times.

I think the big problem is trying to figure something out when you lack both the experience and the brain-power to even identify the questions. It's easy to look at a limited picture and conclude acts are non-loving. There's a small child. He trusts his parents and loves them. They take him to a place, and sharp needles are jabbed into his arms. Does he stop loving them? Does he think, or feel, they just did something to hurt him? Can he possibly understand he's just been vaccinated to spare him possibly months of suffering? I think the small child has a better chance of understanding than we do in this discussion.

Most movies don't have characters that are "DRAWN"- that would be an ANIMATED movie. Even fewer of THOSE movies aren't designed for an audience specifically of children. More telling is the character is aware of animation to a degree. That, to me, leaves 2 movies. It's even easier when you've seen this line of Jessica Rabbit's on t-shirts and other things. This is obviously "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?"

It was "The Munsters." Grandpa made the car after Herman lost the family car in a street race, to race and win the family car back. It was Grandpa's coffin, of course. If you watch the Rob Zombie video, you'll see a copy of the family car in it. Your turn.

Rob Zombie did a song and video called "Dragula." It was named after a racecar that was built in an episode of a television show. The name was appropriate- the body of the car was built from a coffin. What was the show?

Ok, let's see. 4 Jewish names. One is Lawrence- or "Larry" for short. If I trimmed "Moishe" down, I might get "Moe". "Shmuel" might be changed to "Shep". So, I might have Moe, Larry, Shep, and Shep's replacement(s), Curly. That would make any 3 of them "THE THREE STOOGES."

It was a lot nicer than the truth. One person who researched the twi history got ahold of some rather hard-to-get documents. The reason vpw was FORCED TO RESIGN involved (no surprise!) some rather inappropriate behavior concerning a church secretary. In typical vpw fashion, vpw pulled a "you can't fire me-I quit" and sent off the letter we just saw, claiming his motives for leaving were pure. The Church, of course, said, "Sure, just as long as you're leaving" and let the matter drop. The letter he fired off said he was leaving because God was directing him to spend more time with others and so on. Later, vpw told twi innies he left because he got static because he exposed "foreign missions." Typical vpw style- he told DIFFERENT lies to DIFFERENT people at different times, each tailored to their audience of the time. As we can see, he was already rewriting history when he sent off the letter.

Yet if one bothers to read vpw, it is obvious that he began the entire "POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING" setup specifically selling MATERIAL ABUNDANCE, and he says so right in the very beginning of the Orange Book, "Power For Abundant Living"... ================================= ""Introduction: the Abundant Life. Jesus' proclamation as recorded in John 10:10 is the foundational Scripture for this book. ...I am come that they [believers] might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. This verse literally changed my life. My wife and I began in the Christian ministry, plodding ahead with the things of God, but somehow we lacked an abundant life. Then one time I was especially alerted when I read from the Word of God that Jesus said He had come to give us life more abundant. I was startled into awareness. As I looked about me at communities where I had served and among the ministers with whom I had worked, the abundant life was frequently not evident. In contrast to these Christian people, I could see that the secular world of non-Christians were manifesting a more abundant life than were members of the Church. Thus I earnestly began to pursue the question: 'If Jesus Christ came that men and women might have a MORE ABUNDANT LIFE, then why is it that the Christian believers do not manifest even an ABUNDANT LIFE?' I believe most people would be thankful if they ever lived an abundant life; but The Word says Jesus Christ came that we might have life not just abundant, but more abundant. If His Word is not reliable here in John 10:10, how can we trust it anywhere else? But, on the other hand, if Jesus told the truth, if He meant what He said and said what He meant in this declaration, then surely there must be keys, signposts, to guide us to the understanding and the receiving of this life which is more than abundant. This book, POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING, is one way of showing interested people the abundant life which Jesus Christ lived and which He came to make available to believers as it is revealed in the Word of God. This is a book containing Biblical keys. The contents herein do not teach the Scriptures from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21; rather, it is designed to set before the reader the basic keys in the Word of God so that Genesis to Revelation will unfold and so that the abundant life which Jesus Christ came to make available will become evident to those who want to appropriate God's abundance to their lives. " =========== It's plainly obvious he wasn't saying the secular world of non-Christians had spiritual abundance. He said he SAW something. That's in the 5 sense category, which vpw said was antithetical to the spiritual. As in "the battle of the senses vs revelation/faith." That's right out of the same class.

The plagiarist plagiarized that from Billy Graham, who actually did that when younger to overcome shyness. Before the internet, that was possible to get away with. (The "praying for the trees" bit he stole. The "hide in the woods and neglect your chores" thing wasn't Graham. It didn't fool his father, either. According to twi's own publication, his father said that since vpw was too lazy to be a decent farmer, he'd be a flop as a preacher.

The "believing" occult practices were from the "Word of Faith" movement but especially from "Christian" (occultist) Albert Cliffe. http://www.precastconcrete.org/~messiah7/rsr_lawbelieve.htm ""I found the Kingdom-of Heaven within me and, oh, how my ideas of God changed.(3) God to me is all life, all power, all love."(4) God is the name given to that unchangeable principle which is the source of all life, of all existence. As God He is impersonal, but as we come to know Him day by day as expressed in each one of us, He really becomes personal to us...(5)" Man, Cliffe newly concluded, must contain the divine energy for "My mind is part of His divine-mind"(6) and "we are inseparable from God"(7), Cliffe wrote. Man's goal, then, is to grow, developing his latent "God power" since "...if there is an unpardonable sin it is the damming up of God's powers within us." (8) According to Cliffe, attainment of this goal is aided by the impersonal Christ force indwelling every human being. Since "there is no death"(9) a person simply goes to "that plane of thought which you have prepared for yourself" which can loosely be termed "heaven" or "hell."(10) Cliffe's pantheistic viewpoint combats Scripture, promoting man from sinful creature to a microcosm of the "Creator." These a-Christian beliefs have been marketed for centuries by mystics and occultists, often under the thin disguise of Christian terminology which Cliffe favors. "

Don't forget ALBERT CLIFFE. http://www.precastconcrete.org/~messiah7/rsr_lawbelieve.htm "Though Let Go and Let God focuses on ten steps in victorious living, it also reveals Cliffe's beliefs on the important topics of God, man and Christ. Although he claimed Episcopalian beliefs early in life, he later the New Thought classic "In Tune with the Infinite" by Ralph Waldo Trine and took courses on spiritual healing from Metaphysical Schools which brought him to a new conception of God: "I found the Kingdom-of Heaven within me and, oh, how my ideas of God changed.(3) God to me is all life, all power, all love."(4) God is the name given to that unchangeable principle which is the source of all life, of all existence. As God He is impersonal, but as we come to know Him day by day as expressed in each one of us, He really becomes personal to us...(5)" Man, Cliffe newly concluded, must contain the divine energy for "My mind is part of His divine-mind"(6) and "we are inseparable from God"(7), Cliffe wrote. Man's goal, then, is to grow, developing his latent "God power" since "...if there is an unpardonable sin it is the damming up of God's powers within us." (8) According to Cliffe, attainment of this goal is aided by the impersonal Christ force indwelling every human being. Since "there is no death"(9) a person simply goes to "that plane of thought which you have prepared for yourself" which can loosely be termed "heaven" or "hell."(10) Cliffe's pantheistic viewpoint combats Scripture, promoting man from sinful creature to a microcosm of the "Creator." These a-Christian beliefs have been marketed for centuries by mystics and occultists, often under the thin disguise of Christian terminology which Cliffe favors. If Wierwille did realize Cliffe's alarming beliefs about God, man and Christ, he was knowingly exposing his Ohio congregation to possible great spiritual harm. If Wierwille did not realize Cliffe's non-Christian beliefs, he did not probe Cliffe on doctrinal matters or was theologically naive. In either case, Wierwille did adopt at least one key Cliffe teaching- that positive faith (which Wierwille termed "believing faith" in 1957 and "believing" beginning sometime after 1962) will yield health, happiness, prosperity and success while negative faith (fear) must result in failure, sadness and sickness because this is a law under which every human on earth lives. Wierwille's teaching and terminology closely mimic Cliffe's, as a comparison of their works indicates.(11) While Cliffe heads each chapter of Let Go and Let God with a brief Bible verse he does not attempt to prove his teachings with Scripture. Wierwille, on the other hand, attempts to illustrate from Scripture his theory of "believing" thereby "Christianizing" this spiritist's ideas.(12) One thing is sure. Wierwille's source far his teaching on believing was neither the Holy Spirit nor the Word of God, but Albert Cliffe, who spiritually stood far outside the bounds of biblical Christianity. "

I saw a "WOW" bumper sticker in NYC some years back, and several others. When I looked closer, they were for a radio station. When I did a little checking, I found out the morning show shock-jocks (Opie and Anthony) were trying to promote "Whip 'em-Out-Wednesday", a day for women to flash men on the highway or something. Then again, that has all the class of vpw and lcm, so it might not be irrelevant after all.

Some has been posted here. I can look for it when I have time. Of course, someone else can look for it when THEY have time. Me, I'm just a touch less eager when I find some time, spend 1/2 an hour digging up what appears to answer a question and posting it, and I don't even get "THANK YOU but I was looking for something else..." I should get back around to it at some point, but there were actual threads with Leonard's name in the title in AboutTheWay.

We posted quite a bit of it. If you're willing to look at the posts, you'll see that. I posted one link because I was in a hurry. =============== Leonard's printing house is "Canadian Christian Press." vpw, by his own admission, rushed over to interrupt Leonard's class in progress as soon as he heard of it, and demanded to be allowed to take it. Leonard indulged him. A few months later, vpw returned with others to take it, and vpw retook it. A few months after THAT was the first vpw class called "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today." vpw taught it and mentioned no one. What he told Leonard before this...he asked Leonard for permission to reteach Leonard's class locally one time. Leonard agreed, and added a photo of vpw's class to his scrapbook when vpw sent it to him. vpw continued to teach Leonard's classes. Leonard didn't sue, but he added elaborate copyright notices to his books and became more reluctant to put everything out there, which means vpw slowed down Leonard's ministry. Students of Leonard's class have said that Leonard's mannerisms and speech patterns showed up in pfal, as did his use of "Johnny Jumpup, Maggie Muggins and Henry Bollocco." ============================

As much as I like the idea, I've moved FAR too far away to make it feasible. Unless I hit a big lottery, in which case I'll see about hosting a get-together somewhere. ;) If I want anonymity for pictures, though, I wouldn't use a paper bag. I have at least 1 good wolfman mask for the occasion. :)

COULD he? We KNOW he did! We've discussed it a number of times, including "the way:living in wonderland" because vpw himself mentioned Leonard's class, and one of our posters has taken BOTH classes and met Leonard.

MASH ran for maybe 12 seasons. "Saturday Night Live" started before it and is still running. Is it that?