WordWolf

I can tell you how I'd feel NOW-with my CURRENT mindset- if I was at a meeting with all the Christians I'd want to meet currently living- if lcm was there. (I can make a hypothetical based on CURRENT mindset.) I would just avoid him, neither approaching nor acknowledging him unless I ended up face-to-face with him. I'd care about others, but be indifferent to him. Anything else, I'll have to wait and see.

"I have misjudged you." "Join the club. We've got jackets." "They just want to give us their blessing." "Oh, great! Now I need their blessing?" "Well, if you want to be part of this family, yes." "Who said I want to be part of this family?" "Uh, YOU did? When you married me?" "Well, THERE's some find print for you." "Working hard, or hardly working?" "Today, I repay my debt." "You got a puppy? All I got in my room was shampoo." "...we are in pursuit of a white bronco..." "..Whatever happens, I must not cry...you cannot make me cry..."

I disagree about "in twi." Remember, getting yourself out of twi, for some of us, was 20 minutes and the bum's rush out the door. However, getting twi out of YOURSELF can take YEARS. (And for a few of us, it will take divine intervention to finish the job.)

Millions of people-some Jews, some not-were killed horribly for the "crime" of existing. Your lack of humanity will cripple you all your life- until you overcome it, possibly thru having your life destroyed, and receiving compassion from the "lesser" Christians you scorn. Once again, you think incorrectly.We actually examined the evidence, the testimony, and so on. Ever meet someone who was THERE, who was tattooed with one of the numbers, and listened to them? I have. On the other hand, you're ready to believe the most ridiculous notions, discard the most ironclad of evidence, all on the say-so of a man who's been proven to lie, exaggerate, and do sloppy research all the time. Make up your mind-I thought they supposedly controlled all the money. The US was SOLELY responsible for the current Israel? I'm sure the other Europeans who fought in World War II would disagree with you. In fact, I'm sure the Russians-who fought the Nazis long before we did-would disagree strongly. In some areas of Russia, they lost 75% of their population during World War II. You've never heard that, I'm sure. There are villages with markers for that to this day. So, you'd prefer the holocaust have been allowed to continue until all Jews were killed? Largely where they are now, just more persecuted,with Middle Eastern countries vowing to obliterate them. You're discarding all proof of the numbers-including the records the Nazis themselves kept-all because vpw said so, right? You might try thinking for yourself. It's underestimated.

...and sang the song IN the Blues Brothers movie, as well. I once saw a Betty Boop cartoon posted online, featuring this song and a VERY young Cab Calloway shown singing it briefly before the cartoon proper began. Your turn, wasway.

I think they didnt have anything else useful to add at the moment beyond what they already posted, so they didn't add anything not-useful. :)

I'm very happy for you, but you're probably thinking of the wrong title and artist.

vpw parroted George Lamsa on the subject. Lamsa is the one who pushed the "Aramaic first" position. This was advantageous to Lamsa, as he put forth he was THE Aramaic expert, which would make himself THE Bible expert. For Lamsa, I think this was a deliberate attempt to inflate his own importance. vpw was NEVER a good researcher. His "best work" was photocopies of the work of others, and often the deeper things showed a lack of understanding of what he was copying. (That's why his definition of "word of knowledge" is INCORRECT, despite being derived from Leonard's definition, which IS correct.) So, when Lamsa made a convincing-sounding case for Aramaic, vpw lifted Lamsa's claims entirely. If vpw had done his own research, he would have seen that his own claims of the earliest texts being from the FOURTH century were off by at least 200 years, as was known at least 20 years before he put this error in writing. See, in Bullinger's time, (a century ago), such a claim would fly. The last century, however, has seen many new manuscripts come to light, and the dates of the earliest texts now can reach VERY far back, compared to what was available before then. So, I think it was LAZINESS and BAD RESEARCH. ==== Another possibility-which is not exclusive, BOTH may be true- was that it was what he WANTED to say, since it was the opposite of what the establishment was saying. Remember that twi was marketed as counter-establishment and counter-culture, back when. Making a case that sounds convincing and says most Christians are WRONG was right up vpw's alley.

Actually, while it is true that Estrangelo is the script the Aramaic was written in, twi taught that the NT was originally written in "Estrangelo Aramaic", said as if that was a specific dialect of Aramaic, like Palestinian Aramaic (which was spoken in Jesus' time) or Eastern Aramaic (which twi used for their books.) twi taught that the ENTIRE NT was originally written in Aramaic FIRST, and translated to Greek later. Most evidence shows that the Greek came first for the NT, with the possible exception of the Gospels. Mark's answer that at least one Gospel (Matthew) was written first in Aramaic, and at least one Gospel (Luke) was written first in Greek, makes a lot of sense to me, and helps explain disparate POVs from people who actually studied the stuff.

Both. This is not dissimilar to the example in pfal that vpw gave. (Sometimes he had a valid point.) He claimed someone said there was a disparity in a census, where one verse said the Israelite army had a certain number of men, and a different verse said the Israelite army had a smaller number of VALIANT men. Both verses were using different criteria for a count- one of all the men in the army (including conscripts), and one for the army regulars and veterans. The point is a LITTLE clearer when looking at the NASB rendering of some of the verses. Genesis 7:2,3. "You shall take with you of every clean animal by sevens, a male and his female, and of the animals that are not clean, two, a male and his female; also of the birds of the sky, by sevens, male and female, to keep offspring alive on the face of all the earth." All animals were collected in PAIRS. Most animals were collected as ONE PAIR. "Clean" animals and birds were collected as SEVEN PAIRS. Myself, I find it curious that modern shipbuilders confirm the ratio for the Ark's dimensions to be close to optimal for the design of a ship. If this was simply one man's invention, he's a BRILLIANT guesser. Of course, all of you may believe whatever you wish.

"He took her down to Chinatown And showed her how to kick the gong around"

"I have misjudged you." "Join the club. We've got jackets." "They just want to give us their blessing." "Oh, great! Now I need their blessing?" "Well, if you want to be part of this family, yes." "Who said I want to be part of this family?" "Uh, YOU did? When you married me?" "Well, THERE's some find print for you." "Working hard, or hardly working?" "Today, I repay my debt." "You got a puppy? All I got in my room was shampoo."

She's a KILLER, QUEEN. (Queen) :)

I'll give some of them a shot. That's fairly consistent until the time of the Flood,and the lifespans drop catastrophically at that point, until they more closely resemble current standards. That's consistent with what one would expect if a species' genetic variety was severely hampered by a sudden limitation in the breeding population. (Certain animal breeds are prone to problems as a result of severely limited breeding-so this is not without other instances.) In short, we had better-bred humans, so they had longer lifespans. Now, the genetic variation is crippled by comparison, so we have poorer-bred humans. Genesis starts "in the beginning." By definition, no fossil record can preceed "the beginning." (Otherwise, that would be "the beginning.") Genesis does NOT include a date for "the beginning." Different people have different opinions about when "the beginning" is. Some claim it was something like 4000 BC. Others say it was millions or billions of years ago. The fossils predate a 4000 BC account but not the others. The opinions that accept the Bible tend to explain "the beginning" as follows: A) Young-Earth Theory. The earth started about 4000 BC. Nothing is older than this. The Young-Earth position suffers when facing scientific evidence. B) Young-Earth with appearance of age. The earth started about 4000 BC, and God included some things that APPEAR older, but are NOT. This is purely a faith-based position. Technically, it can neither be proven nor DISproven. God certainly CAN do this. DID He do this? That's the relevant question there. As such, scientific types skip this one. C) Gap Theory. The earth started a very long time ago, then came a war in heaven, and sometime AFTER that we get the current timeframe. This one accounts for the huge span of time. D) Progression Theory. The earth started a very long time ago, and God started various processes long ago, culminating in humans. Each "day" was a period of time. This one accounts for the huge span of time. Personally, I find the last 2 hold water, and prefer not to deal with the first one. Actually, given the "Cambrian Explosion", when the Earth went fromhaving virtually no life-forms (according to the fossil records) to suddenly having MILLIONS of species, I question just how much ANIMALS have evolved, let alone humans. We can show ADAPTATION, but the "macro-evolution" postulated by some people has been imposed on the system, and is not supported by a fossil record DEMONSTRATING it. Lots of people. Just nobody in twi. You can look at some of it on http://www.doesgodexist.org

The Muppet Movie Frank Oz The Blues Brothers

"I have misjudged you." "Join the club. We've got jackets." "They just want to give us their blessing." "Oh, great! Now I need their blessing?" "Well, if you want to be part of this family, yes." "Who said I want to be part of this family?" "Uh, YOU did? When you married me?" "Well, THERE's some find print for you."

Last time I checked for references to twi in magazines was 1988, I believe. I found 3 articles. 1) 1970 Life Magazine feature article, "the Groovy Christians of Rye". Positive article. 2) 1971 Time Magazine short article on vpw. Not precisely negative. Includes a pic of him on a tourbike. 3) 1985(1986?) article in Christianity Today. "Infighting Trims Branches at the Way International." It was a page on the JAL/Dubovksy/et al split. =========== Considering the tiny "blip" on the radar that translates into, it's small wonder that the majority of US citizens have never heard of twi, vpw, pfal, lcm, etc.

"I have misjudged you." "Join the club. We've got jackets."

Well, that narrows it down. That's "BIG FISH."

THAT the Holocaust happened, and that millions of Jews were imprisoned and killed because they were killed, has been well-documented, sufficient for all REASONABLE PEOPLE to accept. That having been said, evidence does not move those who do not WISH to accept it. After all, there are still Flat-Earthers. :) This is a thread about how twi disregarded the entire body of evidence, plus all the survivors, to claim otherwise. This is also a thread about how twi TAUGHT the Holocaust never happened, AND STILL DOES.

Clue Madeline Kahn Blazing Saddles

I would not interfere with him nor seek to harm him- with the proviso that stepping aside would not expose innocents to unacceptable risk. That having been said, there are already plenty of people to help on my plate- people who never had any of the things he had previously. So, if it came to it, he could end up on my list- but it's a very long list, and he'd start at the bottom like anybody else new.

Wasn't Pat Roberge sued by them? Hm, they let the rights to "thewayinternationalsucks.com" expire. There was a time they had a redirect in it, so that if you typed in that URL, you got their main site. :) ========= Here's something else re: him. http://www.waychrist.com/1st_twi_letter.htm ======= And I think twi was rattling their sabers over any member of the Wierwille family making any corrections about Mrs W being pushed out of her home by twi.

Seems a lost cause to argue it when there are so many eyewitnesses, but it seems to make him happy. As for the "spiritual anger" thing, lcm (and vpw, for that matter) would slap the name (or concept) "spiritual" on things to make them acceptable, or to change the meaning of the thing. "Spiritual suspicion", "spiritual anger", adultery was "spiritual adultery" and not the actual act, etc. That was already starting at the end of the 80s, actually. I made a joke about it at the time which is not appropriate for public consumption, which was gotten immediately due to the tendency to slap "spiritual" on ANYTHING. My guess-and it is ONLY a guess- is that they were confident the thought police had succeeded. You know, they had publicly ousted all the "homos" and "homo sympathizers" in their hunt, so obviously there were none left. Sorta like the airlines who managed to catch the only 2 pilots who were drinking when flying, you know? As for anyone having "genuine spiritual suspicion" about them, you make have forgotten what they did to YOU when YOU asked questions-as they did with MANY others. They ducked answering-"why do you want to know?" attacked the questioner-"your curiousity is a sign of spiritual immaturity" and so on. They were high enough on the totem pole to deflect any direct questioning. Besides, there was the CONDITIONING. twi innies were conditioned to NEVER QUESTION LEADERSHIP at the risk of being kicked out, losing their salt, being given over to the devil, and becoming a greasespot by midnight. So, I imagine they felt pretty safe.

Before anyone tries to claim-again- that vpw didn't teach this, or that lcm didn't teach this- I'd like to point out that twi is STILL teaching this. vpw taught that the US fought on the wrong side in WW II. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...25entry137925 Down the same page. "I heard that stuff with my own ears. Veepee down playing the holocost, embracing nazi ideologies, and yes, stating that we were on the wrong side in WW II." Different thread. "VPW did though, disseminate information and publications among the Way Corps that the holocaust was either staged or not as severe as it is claimed to be." http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb.index.ph...49entry176749 When the New Knoxville high school officials had these plans in the works..to visit Washington DC and see this [Holocaust] museum..lcm and co. went toe-to-toe on this issue. From what he told us on corps meeting (mid-90s -- ??)..the NK school officials 'revised' the junior/senior trip. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index/ph...08entry115308 Here's an extra-special post that deserves special attention. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ndpost&p=204549 "This particular time she was upset about how 'the Way kids' (that's what everybody calls them) has treated a lady who was well into her 80s. They were on some sort of school field trip." "This time 'the Way Kids' had derided this little old lady to the point where the lady CRIED. Yes, cried, real tears, as in weeping. The lady was a Holocaust Survivor. She was speaking to a group of exceptional high school kids, which included a group from NK (which is an EXCELLENT school), the group had some TWI kids in it. They blasted this lady, who was there, who had photos and had experienced it, they BLASTED her w/ TWI's anti-Holocaust rhetoric, until she cried. They only let up when my daughter, who had been urging them to let up the whole time, stood up, pulled rank on them as Class President, had to YELL at them and ORDER them to 'JUST STOP IT! LEAVE HER ALONE! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, STOP IT!!!" Just doing my part to prevent people from re-writing history... or current events, for that matter.