WordWolf

Seriously? A) Towards the end, he wandered around campus, addled, and confused as to how the women in his life had set him up as the sole perpetrator of all the sins of the inner circle. B) He was successfully labelled as the Single Villain. Therefore, he can't build a base with ex-twi or CURRENT twi. Supposedly, one man claimed if he had even 7 totally loyal men, he could start a religion. lcm is short 7 men for even that much. C) lcm lacks the skills to build himself up as a religious leader to more than a boy scout troop. lcm was coccooned into twi at an early age, and only retains the skills he learned thru college (mostly athletics) and the skills he learned since then (mostly, how to bark orders and micromanage.) Like a career politician, he's out of touch with how real people live, how real Christians think, and what they care about. He'd be a missionary to a foreign country, whose customs are nearly incomprehensible. (Unless he's learned humility since then-if he has, he may understand, but understands he will only harm himself or others if he takes the big chair.) D) lcm doesn't have anything to offer people. His understanding of Scripture is sub-standard among average Christians, and his manner is abrasive. He can't get converts from people who just want him to shut up.

I think POP was accurate in one specific. It claims vpw said at one point that lcm and cg were the only men he thought could run things. Since vpw's main criteria, as has been pointed out before, was blind loyalty to himself, he named those 2 men as the most singlemindedly loyal men, loyal to him beyond all other things. I once told Mike (and I still believe this is true) that I say he is made of a finer clay than vpw and lcm. I specified: I believe that if Mike was placed in that inner circle with lcm, and vpw gave his spiel about adultery being perfectly fine, that lcm would-and did- sin because vpw recommended it, and that Mike would NOT sin DESPITE vpw recommending it. Mike is painfully loyal to vpw, but not to the point that Mike will intentionally sin for him, IMHO. Therefore, although I think there have been many people loyal to vpw, very few (lcm and cg, but not Mike) were or are willing to disregard their own consciences for his sake. This was anything BUT a healthy relationship. vpw made lcm twofold the child of hell that he himself was.

Oh- and I STRONGLY recommend strolling into your local police precinct and having a chat with them, and leaving a paper trail about this. The last time I strongly recommended this sort of thing, I was promptly ignored. As it turned out, it sure would have come in handy-as the police said later. If you have no idea who to talk to or what to do, that part's easy. Just stroll into the lobby. There will be a desk with an officer somewhere up front, in plain view. Walk up to him, look him in the eye, and say "who's in charge of answering dumbass questions here?" He will smile and say "That would be me." At least, that's how I broke the ice the last time I had to ask a trivial question at a police station.

*checks* We have a "JSamuel" here at the GSC. Seems 1/2 the posts or more were trying to track people down in the FriendFinder (like the wives of Ri*ardo C and J*hn L). Funny he supposedly knew those specific people. Also asked about the whereabouts of Chr*s G, also. The remaining posts are either predictable or strange. The fall into 2 categories. A) Praising veepee and condemning lcm, praising the POP paper B) Condemning Jesus. I have NO idea where the LAST came from, but there it is. Anyone want me to bump up his threads (not counting the people searches)? They're some surreal stuff.

That's odd. I KNOW Spybot S & D goes after "CoolWebSearch". Have you updated both that and AdAware, and run both while in "Safe Mode"? ========= AdAware SE 1.05 is the latest version of AdAware. Spybot:Search & Destroy 1.3 is the latest version of Spybot. According to their website, December 2004's updates included some coolsearch variants.

Hey, don't let it shock you. Remember? I've got several Doctorates. :)--> A title is only as good as the certifying organization- or as BAD as the certifying organization. Once introductions are over, titles mean nothing, anyway- either they reflect skill you'll see in action, or they conceal incompetence and are a smokescreen.

Early in the Orange Book, vpw made it clear that he SAW (5-senses) UNBELIEVERS manifesting an "abundant life". Therefore, he was NOT speaking of SPIRITUAL abundance. I can dig the page and exact quote out if you need it. (Raf, among others, has pointed this out more than once.)

I don't even want to know where they stuck the swordfight. I didn't spot the guy spitting, but from the front row, I felt the heat wash over me when the Phantom disappeared in a "flash" of light. I suppose they left that out of the movie.

Written in a friendly style, anyway, which does bode for more civil discussions-and civil disagreements-at any rate. LLP, in EACH post, I said BOTH the RCC and twi bore blame for their actions, and NEVER claimed I preferred one over the other. Your question about how my comments applied to ONE and not the OTHER were without basis. I was consistent in saying BOTH organizations needed more than a slap-on-the-wrists. What I wrote about the RCC, I wrote about twi at the same time and in the same comment. I still don't get what would cause the impression I was applying one set of rules to one, and one set to another. Please supply the quote if there is ANY ambiguity about it. Further, if you can interpret a double standard in a post that uses identical terms and advocates identical treatment for 2 different organizations, there's probably nothing I can do about that. I don't know any clearer way to communicate. Thank you for clarifying the previous issue-whether or not organizations should bear some of the responsibility in such situations. Seems that, to some degree, we agree that they do, and measures should be taken regarding those organizations. Thank you for saying you were not trying to suggest I advocated closing down either group. By tossing that comment in when you did, it certainly gave the impression that you were saying the opposing viewpoint (as in, mine) was that very position. It seems you don't see that your comments concerning who saw what can be easily seen as a move to discredit the testimony of witnesses, which has been a popular sport among twi apologists here in the past. Well, I can't do anything about that, either. BTW, both of us have been posting here for years, and your current posts DO reflect an improvement of style, as I see it. As to the prior substance of your posts, I'll drop it, since I see no profit in pursuing it for anyone. As to maintaining your own posting style, fair enough. If the lurkers have difficulty separating the comments, they can just read slower and more carefully. Personally, I prefer to make things easier for the readers. As has been pointed out, my preferences are hardly universal nor universally-embraced. Feel free to post in whatever style suits you, without thought of me measuring your style against mine. (As if such a comparison mattered.) By "those playing along at home", that's one of several cultural figures of speech I use to refer to lurkers and nonparticipants in a thread. If I didn't take the threads seriously, I wouldnt put thought and time into them.

Casting "the Phantom" with a guy who can't sing should be considered a criminal act. The least they could do was overdub him with a real singer. I'll probably have to skip it just to keep from getting traumatic flashbacks of the horrible swordfight you mentioned.

Hm. Some good points from both of you.

[i'll keep that in mind, but it's been my custom to place my comments, especially when alternating with another person's, both in boldface and brackets. The boldface makes it easy to spot when the speaker changes, and the brackets stay there if they quote back, allowing them to remain offset somewhat while allowing them to boldface THEIR comments. I've been doing that for a few years, now. ] [ JWBM made several comments that I thought should not go unchallenged, drawing attention away from twi's complicity in the criminal actions of its "employees". I refuted them, then LLP tried to make it sound like I was saying the RCC deserved a light hand, and twi a heavy hand, in response to the criminal behaviour they were complicit in. I challenged that as well. Perhaps this will not change LLP's mind. LLP claims to be giving things an honest look. If that is so, then LLP will slowly increase in learning as a result. If that is not true, refusing to allow misdirections and mischaracterizations of my positions at least benefits the other readers. Frankly, once LLP and JWBM entered this thread, and posted to the effect that twi as a corporate entity is innocent of wrongdoing, this thread no longer reflected an intellectual exchange of ideas in the truest sense. Perhaps LLP will demonstrate otherwise in his next post. (Perhaps not.)

LLP posted the original. [WordWolf replies again in boldface.] [bTW, LLP, please make it easy visually to tell when you're quoting me and when you're speaking for yourself, for the benefit of those playing along at home. Also, please try not to trim RELEVANT parts of my comments out-you seem to have done that somewhat.]

Holy carp! How many times have we heard things like _that_? TWI leaders made (and still make) a lot of assumptions based on the TWI world-view that they have absorbed. "Surely God would have told me if so-and-so was a child molester" they tell themselves, "God would not let evil like this flourish...he would give me revelation to _smoke him out_" So, is TWI a haven for child molesters? If the so-called leaders who "stand in the gap" for God's people think like this, then the answer is "hell yeah". I thought this bore repeating.

LLP in normal. [WordWolf in boldface.]

I do fine with ZoneAlarm, the free version of that software.

I don't think enough people have HEARD of twi to make a "celebrity" of anyone turning state's evidence. Also, I don't think there's one person orchestrating things. I think there's a bunch of selfish people who want things to go for their convenience and exploitation, and that's as far as their planning goes.

COULD happen, and would be appreciated, but smart money's against it. I'm figuring this was a "drive-by". Of course, I could easily be wrong.

That would have been my first guess about the initial post/er, as well. That pic may be less tame than most Christian organizations prefer to use. However, compared to the old "parent" organization's talk about the subject, it's pretty tame. :)--> It hardly would fit in with the pornographic videos vpw showed some of you people in the live CFS classes. I wonder how much of his "sex maniac" stuff snuck into the splinters. I'll probably never know.

All the bod is doing is maintaining a delaying tactic. The group is in "negative growth" (hemorrhaging followers) and has been for years. The people at the top want to maintain their "creature comforts" as long as possible. Sooner or later, they KNOW they will need to jump ship, when the Titanic sinks all the way past the waterline, if not sooner. Even the fox has to know that the bod will toss her out like yesterday's trash the same way they deep-sixed mrs w. So, this is all a delaying tactic. I wonder what their "retirement plans" are like.....

Great. It probably will be the most popular part of the site. Just keep my name off the thing. :)--> Maybe I'll be able to come up with some more of the little issues so common amongst the flock, when the flock was/is being sheared by the mogs.

Dear Hell-loise: I'm a young, impressionable female approaching 20 years old. Last month, we visited hq. While I was asleep, about 3am, I awoke suddenly to find the mog in my room (I was sure I locked the door), dressed in a smoking jacket and silk pajamas. He said something about healing me and a real man of God, and blessing me. Then he left. For some reason, he seemed discomfited seeing the dagger my Daddy always told me to hold in my hand whenever any man not my husband was alone in my bedroom with me. I'm confused by what happened. What was the mog talking about? Was something wrong with my knife? What should I have done? =========== (Someone else will have to answer this one. My limit was writing it, even as a hypothetical.)

Some people can eat a sandwich while watching an autopsy. Me, I'm pretty sure my "stomach" isn't that "strong", and I'd feel sick. I don't think that's a "failing" on my part, not having calloused to that degree. Similarly, the horrible things twi did are worth feeling sick over from time to time. If you feel nothing when hearing how they destroyed lives-like some of the current leadership-then something is wrong with YOU. Even the unbelievers feel sick to hear of the horrors that were perpetuated.

If I were to just make a snap-judgement on the little we know, I'd say he was afraid of something. "Mercy is for the weak." (Instructor villain, Karate Kid.) The concepts involved with praying for people who need more than 5 seconds of help made the corpse uncomfortable. People were supposed to be disposable, like pets, to these people, especially the later corpse. The guy may realize he has no idea what he's doing, since he was never trained for it, and was selected AGAINST for compassion before trained to teach people are disposable. (I'm not talking ALL corpse, but this applies to quite a few.) Maybe he actually gets uncomfortable when facing people who need real help. Then again, maybe he really DOES refuse to pray for people he doesn't like. It's his failing, no matter what.