WordWolf

That's very strange. Oakspear, if you still have a copy handy, look up Genesis 6 and read the center reference in the Companion Bible on the verses. There should be a breakdown of the "nephilim" and multiple meanings for the word "fallers". I KNOW the definitions I squeezed down were there.....

Rascal, that Acts 29 song was "He Needs You", I believe. It was the next-to-last song on "It's Hot" (or was it the LAST song? I think it was the LAST song.) Did anybody else "see" the story unfolding in "I'm Gonna Stand"? Acts 29 did confirm that it was based on actual events. I expected that-it sounded too familiar....

Refiner, you do Mike a disservice by underestimating his ability to embellish. According to the PFAL book and class, "this is a book on keys" "this is a class on keys". They were to unlock the text of the Bible, to aid in understanding. Mike is saying that PFAL is not a set of keys, but the text itself. It replaces the Bible on your shelf, which vpw claimed to love but Mike calls things like "unreliable fragments" and "tattered remnants".

That was "Eagle Inside". No relation to "Like an Eagle". Heh. Some of my favourite songs either never reached the Bookstore, or came out after people left. Tom Burke's album "A Fistful of Scriptures" (which I got at an ROA) had some good calls. I especially liked "I'll Never Leave You Alone" and "True to That Call". "...Slow down for a moment, my wandering one, Put your frail, tiny hand in my own. When you were a stranger, I made you My son, Did you think I would leave you alone? I love you, yes I love you, And I'll never leave you alone..." ======== "And Lord, may I always be true to that call, I want to be part of Your story. And Lord, may I serve You with all of my all, Til I stand before You in glory..." ============ Let's see....Acts 29 songs I especially liked... "When You Love Someone". "Whatever it takes, Father, that's what I'll do. Someone did it for me, now I'll do it too. I'll find that special heart today...." "God First". "God said it? That settles it. I'm a believer, baby! What next, God? You betcha!" Breakthrough. I'm probably the only one who'll list "Same Old Lie." (It STILL is, for that matter.) Billy Falcon. "My Heart Is Fixed". "Never Been Knocked Out." "Heart of a Lion." How about "Heart of a Champion?" "I will never allow what I'm feeling to keep me from being what God's called me to be. My emotions may come, and they may go, but God's truth is for eternity..."

Raf, it was called "Loving You,", if memory serves.

NO, that's NOT in the Companion Bible. Bullinger takes the other POV, and I copied notes from that Appendix into my Bible. Said "sons of God" and "daughters of men" were both HUMANS, and gave an explanation for it. It holds together nicely, although I know some don't agree with it.

Hm. That would be SO typical, wouldn't it? As well as fit in with the zero-sensitivity for which he's famed. Who ISN'T familiar with the famous rejoinder? Guy goes up to a chick in a bar or someplace, makes a crude suggestion or proposition, and receives her drink in his face (or her right hook.) When he returns to the knot of guys laughing hysterically at him, he "explains" that she was not interested in him, because she was a lesbian. After all, what other POSSIBLE explanation could there be for her to refuse Tony Testosterone, stud that he is? This "explanation" was originally made famous in Aesop's Fable of the Fox and the "sour grapes"...the fox announced they were sour right after he realized he couldn't reach them...

I'd also appreciate it if you retitled the subject line so there isn't a swear-word in the main index, please.

I suspect this played out one of lcm's little fantasies, also. I can't PROVE it because I never overheard him say he was into 3-somes or watching women or whatever. (Perhaps someone else here, or several someones, HAVE heard this.) I can speculate, based on his ultra-macho jock image that he strove to maintain. (Anybody here see him exercise daily when he was on the twi dole?)

You could say the same if he quoted Romans 10:9. So what?

Offhand, maybe 60%-65%...that's a rough guesstimate off the top of my head and not based on any statistics. No lower than 50% of posters, no more than 70% of posters, I'd say. The Doctrinal forum tends to draw more Christians, and a few outspoken agnostics and atheists.

I'm glad I'm not the only person who thought that, Goey. Given those 2 choices, I pick "C". (Well-disguised "False Dichotomy", that was...)

Sheesh. Sin is sin. I'm not sticking up for any category of sin, but I'm not shoving myself in anyone's face for it, either. They know where to find me it they want my opinion or my help. lcm, in particular, grew obsessed with homosexuality. It's possibly because he thought of himself as a dumb jock. (Not so much an athlete as a stereotype of an athlete.) So, that included full-blown hatred, intolerance and crude jokes (as well as parents saying their kids learned to curse from listening to lcm), as well as tirades on it. Eventually, lcm tied just about every evil in mankind to homosexuality, and slapped labels on everyone who disagreed with him as a "homo or homo sympathizer", and he kept seeing "homos" lurking around every corner. (One might wonder what fueled this obsession...) lcm condemned THIS sin of lust roundly, but was perfectly fine with his OWN sins of lust-he cheated on his wife, and used some members ("followers") for his own gratification. Nice double-standard.

Not to detract from the previous posts-which I AGREE with..... I'd also recommend finding some competent Christians not connected with twi and spending some time with them. Some of the things you learned may be useful, some may not be. Either way, shine some light into things, and also discover that normal Christians are not all idiots like we were taught.

Wayfer Not, I was contrasting your normal, Christian expectations with the ones twi had- where people either can join twi or be WRONG!

That's more than I wanted to know. I was prepared to take your word on it....I skipped over most of that last post. I DID have a chuckle just before that, though, with the line, "images you find stimulating". I had a flash of some Raelian out in a trailer park, putting on a tape of "Debbie Does Dallas" with the sound off. (No, DON'T tell me if that's true.) I thought you were going to say something like "this group with the sex maniacs and orgies is one of the few groups I investigated fully", demonstrating your committment to get to the truth (as long as it's fun). PLEASE don't take this as an invitation to inform me any further about their practices-what you posted was sufficient for me.

I'd not dispute it. We already learned that what's on paper is only the tip of the iceberg-the really libelous statements are delivered verbally to the victims- I mean the "spiritually mature enlightened ones." So, on paper they advocate group gropes? Almost makes you wonder what's in the "lockbox"....

Out of curiousity, Refiner, can you give me the rough outlines of this? I'd like a few answers without subjecting myself to reading the whole thing, and you already did.... Did this Rael dude go into explicit details, essentially writing holy pr0n, or is that as much detail as he went into? How detailed are the official doctrines about this stuff for the Raelians? Do they memorize stuff about holy sex-slaves? Also, did Rael give doctrines endorsing full-scale BDSM in heaven, or was he just into the whole "master/slave" thing? I'm curious, but not curious enough to risk injury to my psyche by reading it myself. I'm sure somebody I've heard of, or several somebodies, would definitely be jealous that HE succeeded in outright doctrines of free sex when they had to sneak around in corners and maintain a lockbox/veil of secrecy....

Acknowledging the previous post and doing nothing to detract from it..... With that in mind, and with that understanding, I find those who claim that the adherents to the contrary POV to their own-Trinitarian or not-are not saved because they disagree are being silly and drawing a distinction God Almighty does not. To both "types" of Christians, I say, can't we all get along and tackle some REAL problems, of which there are many?

It wasn't about anyone getting saved, Wayfer Not-who told you that? It was about being always right, and having the arrogance to take potshots at everyone who disagreed with twi.

Of course, to hear some people say it, twi books replaced the Bible, and should be read instead. I thank God I'm not one of those people.

Um, JustThinking, Do you mean "out" as in "out of twi", or did you make a personal announcement that I missed at some point? Not that I'm judging, mind, just asking..... ============================================== Let's see....liked hanging out all the time with burly football players, insisted on wearing tights and doing a dance production, male...sounds like a flaming homo according to twi-2 standards. (We know he would be flamed, at any rate, if not literally set aflame, so he'd be flaming one way or the other). The irony of this escaped him, of course. Wonder if he's insecure about it nowadays... ========================================= BTW, the "logic" you cited reminds me of a fallacy a philosophy professor once said.... "God is love. Love is blind. Ray Charles is blind. Therefore, Ray Charles is God." ======================================== Kramer: "I should have known all along you were gay. After all, you're over 30, and you're still single...." Jerry: "What are you talking about? YOU'RE over 30, and YOU'RE still single!" Kramer: "AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!" *runs*

That's the one I THOUGHT you guys meant.... http://my.homewithgod.com/heavenlymidis/kids_abraham.html (You can find almost anything online.) "Farther Along" not only was not a twi-exclusive song, but it was nonsensical for twi to use this song. For those of you who took vpw's pfal Foundational class, you may remember when he got to the part about understanding what terms MEANT, not what they would mean NOW. One example was the verse "..but the end is not by-and-by". He said this meant "NEARBY, CLOSE." Therefore, the end is not immediately following what was spoken of in the verse. (You remember the segment....."It's not like in the song, 'By the sweet by-and-by'...") Then you sing "Farther Along" where "We'll understand it all by-and-by." We'll understand it "farther along", or "by-and-by"? Later, or very soon? Why did people look at me like I had 2 heads when I brought that up also? http://members.warpnet.net/karin/images/zfarther.html Once again, tho, we had a song with stanzas missing. We never heard the last stanza, because it's antithetical to session 1, segment 1 of pfal. We're supposedly slopping over with financial prosperity, so we dare not suggest in a song that we're not. Same problem with the song "I Know Who Holds Tomorrow."

Sometimes I wondered how they still called themselves Christian with such controversial lyrics. Trinitarians are not bad people. I've met quite a few in the past year, and I have to say they express a lot of love. I would never consider them evil. I've met some pretty nice homosexuals too. I haven't met any witches I've known of though. But I'm sure there are a few good-hearted ones out there too. ;)--> Yeah, but twi REALLY loves to stick it to the Trinitarians. Under lcm, it was also quite fashionable to attack homosexuals. (I've heard vpw pick on Trinitarians, but I didn't catch him pick on homosexuals...which may just mean he hid it better.) I've met some witches. Some are idiots, a few are good-hearted. One irony is that Trinitarians might go on the warpath if you're A Christian but not a trin, and witches-claiming Christians persecute them-sometimes will give Christians a hard time. The irony of this has not escaped some others of them, who aren't quite so silly. Usually they don't use the term "witch", either-most of the sensible ones, anyway. The fake ones who just saw a movie and want to freak the normals ALWAYS call themselves witches. Steve!, Raf mentioned which one he meant on page 1, "Plurality Giving", and explained why. I'm sure he still gets "Beautiful Ohio" flashbacks like the rest of us do. "Beatiful Ohio, where dreams come true..." "So I dreamed I KILLED HER!"- Raf, before breakfast or a shower. :)-->