johniam

Episode #2

Propo: What is COBOL?

Proto: It's obsolete. It stood for computer business oriented language.

Propo: Are you sure it's obsolete?

Proto: Yeah. Digital pretty much changed everything forever.

Propo: Is there anything digital about me?

Proto: What? No! Why do you ask all these weird questions?

Propo: I don't know? Oops, whoops, AAAAUGH!

Smash (glisten)

Proto: Propo, I got your hand.

dwwwAAAANG!

see you next episode

There are no spiritual parallels here, just episodes about a superhero (Protoplasm) and his sidekick (Propotoilet). Each episode will end with Propotoilet falling from a great distance and smashing to pieces, leaving fecal and urine residue all over everywhere. Kinda like on Southpark that character Kenny got killed during every episode. Then Protoplasm will find his hand and hold it and heal him.

Episode #1

Propo: Proto?

Proto: Yes, Propo.

Propo: Well, you're a superhero and I'm just a toilet. Why do you want me to be with you everywhere you go?

Proto: Why?

Propo: Yes, Proto.

Proto: Think really hard, Propo.

Propo: OK. Ouch! It HURTS when I do that. Oops, whoops, AAAAUGH!

Smash! (glisten)

Proto: (sigh) All right, Propo, I've got your hand.

dwwwwwAAANG!

electronic female voice: Healing action has taken place.

husky male voice: Stay tuned for the next episode of...Protoplasm and Propotoilet!

wheres your proof ! i never saw any such thing. i was in the way in jackson mississippi in 1980-1981 in a fellowship run by 2 beautiful women in their mid 20's , i was wow in clinton iowa 1981-1982 with another guy and 2 beautiful women , i went back to jackson in 1982-1983 and lived with a corps family , i was wow 1983-1984 in cheyanne wyoming with 2 guys , in 1984-1985 i was in virginia beach in a young corps womans fellowship , in 1985-1986 i was in atlanta in a corp guys fellowship , in 1986-1987 i was in houston in a corp families fellopwship , in 1987 i was in west hollywood in Dennis D. fellowship and lived in several places in los angeles , in 2003-2004 i was way disciple in hoover alabama , in 2004 i went back to los angeles and have ben in about 7 different fellowships in los angeles and over all those years did and do lots of witnessing with all kinds of different people and no one ever used sex or attraction or coercion or anything else to sign people up for the class. all we ever did and do is speak the WORD to people. this thing about using sex to sign people up for the class is a lie from whoever started it. i dont care if you want to bad mouth the ministry or air your anger at some leader that did you wrong like was done to me but i will not be silent about outright lies.

Selective reasoning. That's all it is.

I don't know how "flaming" this is, but, what happened today? Did somebody pee in your coffee?

Did twi/vpw change my life? Duh! Is the pope catholic.

First, it's not about me it's about God and what Christ accomplished for mankind. Nobody can screw that up. TWI got me in the habit of asking God for His help. That has never wavered. No matter how many times people have let me down, God has NEVER let me down. I still believe that the core things, the doctrine we were taught in twi is correct. It is especially alarming how much the world has promoted the opposite of what twi held dear. The gay marriage ruling is definitely a time to mourn for God's people.

Before twi, I was heading more and more into social isolation. From family, friends, society in general. TWI began to change all that. Beginning with the wow year was an 8 year period in which twi was like a sociological green house for me. This wasn't my plan; it just seems to be how it played out. A green house is a place where if a plant is struggling to survive in its natural environment, putting it in the greenhouse gave it climate controlled safety and nourishment, so that later it could be put back into its natural environment and have a much better chance of survival. For those 8 years, I lived with and hung out with wafers 24/7. This made an incredible impact. There were times when I needed to get a job RIGHT NOW but God always came through for me.

After the 8 years I moved back to where I lived when I got in the word. The change was obvious. I got a job and soon got promoted to management. I got married within 3 years. Seemingly, all the things I had no chance of accomplishing before twi, were happening. My unbelieving family was impressed. Still are to this day. This doesn't make me morally superior to anybody else. Religion isn't supposed to be about moral superiority; it's about God and what He has done for us. I know some of you don't believe that God had anything to do with twi. Well, I've never walked in your shoes/ you never walked in mine.

TWI made THE difference in my life. Forty years later.

Yeah, why don't we just let this one die. Sure, it's a cult. Always has been. No godly deliverance, just bondage. Whatever,

You're pretty good at misrepresenting yourself, Waysider.

Sure, in marketing sex sells. I doubt that in your fast-food scenario,however, you had the girls flirt specifically with, or go out with people to bring them in as customer.

But your assertion that sex and sex appeal as good marketing is well taken. It just shows that the mentality of TWI and you is to market supposed biblical teaching as a product, for the sole purpose of driving sales.

If you think that's okay, then you were in good company in TWI. Personally, it's not the way I would prefer to represent God. In the Bible, He is all about bringing people to repentance and having a relationship with them. He is also all about building moral character.

Promoting a ministry with an appeal to one's lusts sort of goes against all of that, but that's just my opinion. You go ahead and promote your religion, ideals or whatever anyway you wish.

The deliverance that so many people got through twi can only come from God. Sometimes it was as a product, sometimes it was not. What's wrong with products? Religion is always cranking out endless rules which God does not require. Thou shalt not have products. You can't learn about Jesus in a classroom. No wonder so many people want to join "cults".

In order to have an exodus, don't you have to have enough people to constitute an exodus?

Of course I've heard of it. Even David Craley in his book 'In search of the light;the hope of glory' said he kind of got witnessed to that way. Eew. Even the 5th WC principle, make your physical body as dynamic as possible, whatever, could be inferred as that, couldn't it?

But it is certainly relevant that everybody believes that sex sells. I was a fast food asst mgr for 6 years and we most definitely put the hottest girls on front counter during busy periods. Yeah, we were sexist pigs. So what?

Bottom line is, people actually got delivered, but now decades later somebody who changed their mind and thinks it was all bogus says "hair raising stories" etc.

Deliverance is in the eye of the beholder, eh?

Not once in the 18 years I was in twi did I ever hear any leader promote this "whoring for Jesus" strategy. And of course, NOBODY other than twi believes that sex sells, right?

I think you have to have HAIR in order to have a hairstyle.

quote: They order the boring dresses out of mother-of-the-bride catalogs. I know. I saw them when I worked wardrobe. They were the same catalogs mailed to me because I had been planning my own wedding.

I asked why the dresses were so unattractive and was told that it was so the ladies didn't "distract" from the word.

This makes me think of a few things. Last Saturday I watched SNL, which was a rerun since it's summer, and the musical guest was Charli XCX, a girl group. The lead singer looked very sexy. If she had been singing 'I've been born again' or 'It's gotta be God' nobody would've remembered that. Even Sarah Palin wrestled with this. If you want to communicate a serious message, political, religious, or whatever, I guess you can't look too sexy. Javajane, it sounds like somebody should've put much more thought into the wardrobe. Perhaps the outfits could've been more attractive without being too distracting. Claudettee, Stevie Kay, and Vicki Allen always looked pretty, yet discreet.

quote: Those who've touted the "greatness of pfal" have never connected all the dots....to understand why twi has miserably failed. How many years have these followers sat in home fellowships and heard those "inspirational manifestations?" Thousands of times, for many. Yet, what about the other six manifestations? You know....earthquakes shaking the prison doors open, the blind man from birth able to see, angels in our midst, etc. Why has twi become so dead? Hint: [pfal] why was the dead sea so dead?

So who IS doing the other 6 manifestations? The catholic church? Fifty percent of them voted for a president who compels them to blaspheme (pay for abortions and other birth control). You got all this criticism, but no solutions.

You say you never believed in the snow on the gas pumps, but you, like everybody else, didn't come forward with this "enlightenment" until after VP was dead.

But hindsight is 20/200, right?

so then, if you do not know what your neighbors believe..

does it make any difference what your neighbors believe, is it any business of yours what your neighbors believe, to the extent that your neighbor wants to tell you what they believe.

What about Numerology. Three versus One.

Well, plus a few other significant numbers..

do you still feel uncomfortably different than others, and the rest of Gods Creation..

its just a question.

No, it doesn't matter nor is it any of my business what my neighbors believe. I've lived here for 15 years. So has my one next door neighbor. We've talked to him about spiritual things. We even told him we were in a "cult". Not a problem, with him or us. The other next door neighbor has lived here only 2 years. Nice folks, but we've not yet talked to them about God or anything.

Do I still feel uncomfortably different than others? Yes. I mean...the devil is God's creation isn't he? We are not of this world. I felt more uncomfortably different than others before I got into twi than since. At least now I have friends who are also different.

One thing that keeps coming back to me is...that people have lives, want to have lives. Most people I know who are still into twi type fellowships want to also have lives...college, jobs, careers, bowling leagues, whatever! Back in the day in twi we had to put that stuff on hold to move the word the urgency of the times. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Spiritually, we definitely made a huge dent. Some here just don't believe that, but we all knew what was going on. Nobody stuck a gun to our heads to make us do that. We believed in what we were doing and we participated, each person according to their desire and ability. But it's nice to be able to have a life in the world, though being not of this world.

quote: Does it BOTHER you that your neighbor beilieves in a Trinity?

I don't know what my neighbors believe. It sure seemed to bother a lot of people that us wayfers did NOT believe in a trinity. Never met anybody more glassy eyed than those people who hated on us back then.

He's a common tater! (Walter Cummins pfal77)

Seriously, that sign is current? Somebody actually opened for business and put that sign in their window? Even the laundromat in St. Marys let us use their facilities during ROAs. Adolphs too. Someone once told me, in a different context, that in Louisiana if you go south of interstate 10 it's like going back in time to the 40s or 50s. Did this happen there? Bizarre.

Wonder how well that logic would work if they didn't serve gays ...closely held belief...gays are...whatever.

Faith is a funny thing. I can't prove that what I believe is true, but nobody else can prove that it isn't. Oakspear once pointed out that most peoples' faith started with a feeling. Mine did, originally.

I was in 4th grade. My mom took me to Fountain street church, a liberal church. She would drop me off in this room where they showed cartoons like Goofy, Bugs Bunny, Popeye, etc. Then she would join the adults and after the last cartoon us kids had to go to our Sunday school class. One Sunday I waited a few minutes after the last cartoon for whatever reason and I was alone in the room. Then a movie about Jesus came on. Lasted an hour or so. That was the beginning. This feeling came over me that I would eventually become familiar with. It felt like the presence of God. It felt good.

After the movie I went to my Sunday school class. They asked me where were you. I was still pretty buzzed from that feeling. I told them I'd seen a movie about JESUS!!! They smirked at me.

The next time that feeling came was during 10th grade. Two friends, both of whom are atheists, said they were going to a prayer meeting at a Presbyterian church. I went. That feeling was powerful this time.

Then in the summer of 1975 I was a college student and I had a job as a state park ranger assistant. I was away from all my friends and 2 coworkers asked me to go to their respective churches. One was weird. This guy kept saying PRAISE Jesus while the minister was giving his sermon. That feeling wasn't there. The other one was better. The feeling came back while he was preaching. He got with me after the sermon and told me he'd read the bible cover to cover 22 times and the more he read it, the more he believed it. I went there one or two more times. One of those times I smoked a joint before going. They didn't act like they knew but they probably did. The pot didn't delete the feeling.

I went to my first twig in Oct. of 1976. That feeling has never gone away. Even during times of no fellowship. It doesn't feel as new and exciting as it did at first, but it's still there and it still feels good.

In Tom Petty's song Freefalling he says I'm gonna leave this world for awhile. Twi gave us all a chance to leave our worlds for awhile. Not necessarily such a bad thing.

Haven't been around this joint in a while. I see that the coffee is still pretty decent. Decided to stop by because my brain is starting to forget details from when I got involved in TWI... I was 12 when my mom got involved, so my story probably differs a lot from those who were not involved in TWI as children or adolescents. I am looking for examples of what draw you there in the first place and what was the point where you "sold out" to TWI's doctrine.

I remember seeing things that I thought were miracles at the time, but my brain can't access the information now. It's been almost ten years since I left. I guess that's a victory. I do remember seeing devil spirits behind everything, but I don't remember HOW I became convinced of that as truth.

Any stories would help - I won't share them specifically, but I could use some inspiration and a jogging of my own memories.

What drew me there was the love of God in the believers. Not just my first fellowship, but for years afterward. Sure, the leadership wanted you to agree with them, but they did NOT just kick people out if you didn't unquestioningly agree. Well, that dramatically changed in 1994. First they kicked you out of stuff if you didn't get out of debt. Then they kicked you out if, by way of "reasonable spiritual suspicion", they thought you were gay, then they kicked people out if they were guilty of "unproductive evil". Anybody who was left after that was either lucky or totally intimidated.

If you sell out to anything it has to be your idea. You can't be coerced into godly service. 1 Cor. 16:15 says those people had addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints. Nobody made them get committed. When I was a child the other kids in my neighborhood would sometimes try to get me to believe in their God. But all they seemed to know was that you'd go to hell if you didn't do what their minister said. I bailed as soon as twi told me I was welcome but my wife wasn't. Although I second guessed my decision at times, it was definitely the right decision.

In 1996 I talked briefly to someone who stayed with twi, convinced that LCM didn't invent the standards of seeing devil spirits everywhere. We didn't talk long. Staying in twi cost him his marriage. He left years ago and has remarried. I sense he's still hurt. I can't imagine what it's like to follow a religion only to escape hell, or wrath, or whatever.

quote: I noticed that neither Owens nor Imogene Allen were featured.

Perhaps the video is specifically way corps themed. Those folks were not directly associated with the way corps were they? Well, during the 1994 ROA LCM announced that there were no more 1st way corps still standing with twi, so he made the trustee families the official 1st way corps, or something. Nice political move, but substance???? I can see how anyone who still has reverence for the way corps might have felt that this was a slap in the face. I could be wrong.

quote: Why would God get you into something and then get you out of it?

He wouldn't. We do that stuff ourselves. It says in the so called parable of the sower that the wicked one catches away that which was sown in the heart of someone who doesn't understand the word of the Kingdom. If the adversary can do that, couldn't God do something to help someone who hears and understands? He could do that for anyone regardless of where they heard the word.

I'm just saying that the word 'cult' is a political social label, not a factual label.

A cult is a religion whose founder is still alive.

A cult is where money which should go into mainstream Christian collection plates doesn't.

The word cult is a bigoted slur used by some people to attack other people.

Back in the day I wasn't afraid to read what was said about twi in books like Mindbenders, Youth, brainwashing and the extremist cults, etc. They all made a point of saying that the number one reason we were a cult is because we believed Jesus isn't God. Jews and Muslims also don't believe that Jesus is God. But these self appointed cult experts wouldn't DARE admit that they believe Jews and Muslims are in cults. They would immediately be compared to Hitler. But we KNOW that's what they think. All the mind control and brainwashing BS could be said of many things: military, college, mainstream religion, feminism, anything with a belief system associated with it.

The adversary is patient. I knew back in the 70s that attacking small religions was only going to lead to attacking ALL religions, especially Christianity. That's what's happening now.