Lone Wolf McQuade

Son of the Master, you said... So is God. It's funny that God made some things in his word so clear, and some things not so clear. God loves to see his people who have genuine hearts seeking, questioning, and reasoning among themselves the many multi-layered, hidden meanings of his masterpiece. God says that people who love to talk about God and honor his name have their names written on the scroll of rememberence. (Mal. 3:16)

Excathedra, no worries, I love ya! :-) Actually, what I meant by "hungry" is sexual hunger. That's why I asked if there were women who were going through the guys like VPW and LCM were the ladies.

Matthew 21:17-22 And he left them and went out of the city to Bethany, where he spent the night. Early in the morning, as he was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered. When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. "How did the fig tree wither so quickly?" they asked. Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer." These of course are the verses that people use, including TWI, to promote the idea that believing=receiving. Well, here's actually what I think it means. Yes, I could be wrong. "You can say to this mountain", refers to an obstacle in your life that's keeping you from being like Christ. "Be removed", so that there isn't a stronghold in your life that's keeping you from bearing fruit, like the worthless tree. This is what I believe Christ was more speaking of. I don't for one second believe that this record is teaching us some kind of metaphysical formula for financial success. Jesus concludes by saying "If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer." I think Jesus is revealing right in the context what we should be praying for. We should be praying to God and trusting in him to help remove any obstacles that would keep us from bearing fruit...of which Israel (the fig tree) had none because they didn't trust God. If we believe God and ask him to help us get out of sin in our life and become more Christ-like, do you think he will answer? Yes, he will, that's the point Jesus is making. The mountain (i.e. your obstacle) will be removed because God will help you clean up your life. This also flows now with... 1 John 5:14, 15 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us-- whatever we ask-- we know that we have what we asked of him. Well what things are according to His will? Well, I would imagine his plan, his purposes, to win the unsaved, to protect believers, to give them help and guidance, to help believers manifest the fruit of the spirit in our lives and be like Christ to one another. Isn't all the law summed up in love God and love your neighbor? So it makes sense that above all, God would be helping you to get to that place in life, which is the goal, regardless of whether you live in Chicago, Seattle, or New Jersey, whether you have a nice car or no car, whether you're a plumber or a doctor, whether you have a physical ailment or whether you don't. The fact that God hears us if we ask anything according to his will implies that if we ask anything that is not according to his will, he might not hear our requests (at least to the point of granting). The fact that God's will plays such a roll in things suggests that there are millions of things one could pray for and never see an answer, even if they did believe. So to throw around believing=receiving as some general principal in life is misplaced. These are the words of our Master. When Christ's words are recorded, there is some pretty heavy spiritual insight and wisdom coming from his lips, especially since words would be few since time was limited. And everything he ever spoke revolved around his mission which was "to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed" (Luke 4:18). Christ is speaking here of deep spiritual truths, trusting in God, prayer, and inner transformation by the power of God from oppressive behaviors and bondage that destroys us. Leave it to the greedy unspiritual, 5-senses man to water it down into some kind of formula for material prosperity so that they can look good in the eyes of others and boast of their great "faith". Disgusting. Anyway, that's what I think it means. And hey, I'm free to think for myself! What a blessing!

Welcome Mrs. Bolshevik!!

PFAL 74. Out in 2000. Hmmmm. Too long.

It would be interesting to see who owns these texts throughout the world and to know their motives for owning them. Hmmm. 2nd century copy of Luke, what's that going for these days? It had to be Millions, dare tens of millions??!!!! $$$$$ Am I wrong???

Skyrider, you said... The Way is going to get smaller and smaller until there is nothing left except the cabin in the Way woods. Craig will be in it. He'll have 2 schmucks who live nearby that attend his fellowship, one bodygaurd, one maid, and 3 concubines...all who would give their lives for Craig believing, "all those in Ohio have turned against us". Nobody witnesses, you're right, it's embarrassing. It's a disgrace.

Most of the stories I hear regarding sexual misconduct in TWI directly involve either VPW or LCM. Obviously there were many other leaders involved in that activity. With as many women as are alleged to be abused, it would have been very difficult to keep a lid on things. I just assume those in the know, knew. Donna Martindale had to have known Craig was engaged in that behavior. Did she just not care? Were top leadership women approaching men or was it mostly just Men of God on the prowl? Was Donna, or any higher-ups, hopping in bed with a bunch of guys? I know of the rumors concerning her lesbianity. If that is true, I wonder how she felt about Craig ranting, screaming, cursing, and spitting about how homosexuals and lesbians are possessed. (Craig) "I've been looking all over for Donna, have you seen her???" (Obedient Corp Submissive) :D "God bless you man of God, why you're looking spiritual today. As a matter of fact, I just saw Donna and the Fox trotting off into the Way woods. (Craig) <_< (he thinks to himself) "Hmmm, that should give me just enough time for a quickie before Donna comes back". .....meanwhile in the Way Woods.... (The Fox) :wub: "So what did you want to talk about Donna?" (Donna) "I'm sick of Criag, he always thinks he's right!" (The Fox) :wub: "Can I do anything to make you feel better? Wanna see something?".... THE END These are the people we served and obeyed.

What's the name of his ministry? Does he have a website to check him out?

You think they would have at least changed the name from Craig's class. See, without Craig there, they can't come up with anything on their own. Lone Wolf He'll be back, guaranteed. He'll be on that stage again one day, "a changed man". Oh, how they will applaud him.

I wonder if I had my old name tag and a suit on if I could sneak into the auditorium for a teaching to see how lousy it is. So does anyone here at GS know how it went? Lone Wolf

Sorry for the slightly disorienting post. I was very tired when I wrote it. You said... It has nothing to do with the spirit and that's exactly my point. The text uses the word "spirit" but in reality has nothing to do with real spirit, but rather he was talking about the attitude of the mind.Likewise when it speaks of the "spirit of man". Just because the text uses the word "spirit" doesn't mean it has anything to do with literal "spirit". Because it sounds like you're using the fact that it calls it the "spirit of man" to say that we are spirit beings and born with spirit. I thought all we had was the flesh and that's why we're born dead. Romans 8:10-11 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you. Notice the verses say, "if Christ is in you...your spirit is alive". "If the Spirit...is living in you", that's the point, not everybody has the spirit living in them. I think VPW was correct. Lone Wolf

Preacher, you said... Preacher, I can appreciate your enthusiasm for your "father in the Word" who unlocked the keys to understanding the bible for you. I was the same way until I took an honest look at all the documents and testimonials here at the cafe.I have always believed that VPW had heart at one point in his ministry. But he went down the tubes and hurt a lot of people's lives in the process. The man definitely was a plagiarist and his sexual conquests are undisputed. Uhh, you have no idea who I am or how much I read the book. You're making an aweful lot of assumptions about me and there's a lot of arrogance in your tone sir. I don't need to praise TWI to remember where I was before God saved me. I sense a bit of Craig's bitterness in your voice. Furthermore, you'll find that quite a few of us posters here at the cafe go "way" back to the good old days. A lot of us gave decades to the ministry and hung around VPW and LCM for years, so our opinion is relevant whether or not it agrees with your "already prejudiced attitude" against those who have little or no praise for VPW. Lone Wolf McQuade

So if we are born spirit beings, then how do you account for believers in the OT who had the spirit of God taken away? If the spirit was taken away, then they had no spirit. If we are already spirit beings, then what do we receive from God in salvation? you said... I think I would have to take issue with this. When the scripture speaks of the "spirit of man", it's simply referring to the soul. It's not the holy spirit, which is what Adam lost in his disobedience. Jesus Christ said that the "spirit is willing but the flesh is weak". The word spirit doesn't mean the holy spirit in them but rather the attitude of the mind. It's all in the symantec range of pneuma. Can you explain it to me more? Lone Wolf

Welcome Preacher. So you took the new class? So what kind of stuff were they teaching? What was all this "new" research? You said... Yes, most of the coordinators had spiritual problems. The Way is a pile of spiritual dung and serves no benefit to humanity, save the rare instance someone in the Way witnesses to someone and saves them. Which can't happen that often. Why would you want to witness to anybody knowing you would have to bring them around?Way fellowships are like dark little caves with no light. Spritual Whores abound in Way fellowships. It's one big spiritual S&M session with dominators and submissives. What was it that got you so wrild up? This may actually be the best thing TWI has done in decades. I was with you all the way until you said, "because of Dr. Wierwille". as you'll soon find out as you browse the cafe, VPW didn't really come up with anything that wasn't taught by many teachers in many Christian circles. I respect the fact that VPW's ministry won people to Christ, no doubt about it. But stick around Preacher, you're about to find out that VPW wasn't the Apostle Paul of our generation, not by a longshot. Welcome one, welcome all.....PREACHER!!!!! Lone Wolf McQuade

I am connected to what's going on in Hawaii with TWI. It's frickin' dead over there. Just another loser Way fellowship or two with a skeleton attendance. They're really trying to "reconnect" with people who were in TWI but left after Craig was caught with his Levi's down. The Way International, what a loser outfit. Lone Wolf McQuade

Bolshevik, you said... When push comes to shove, that's pretty much the truth of the matter, no matter who He has to go through, He'll find a way to accomplish his purposes. Lone Wolf

I spent most of my teen years in the Way. Being young, you never knew about all the sex stuff. All you knew was that your parents go to this church thing and so do you. As a younger kid, I enjoyed some of the teachings, but was always waiting for refreshments!! I remember that in the 80's refreshments rocked at our twig. We had full on frickin' spreads!! It was sweet! But come Cold 90's with Craig at the lead, even the refreshments went away and when we did have them, they sucked. I did enjoy taking the classes. I thought I was being taught the truth of God's Word from the MOG (brain-washed). What I hated was the next twig fellowship after a class happened because you knew it was going to be "go around the fuc*ing' room time" and everybody shares what blessed you about the class. At 13, what the hell was I going to say? I didn't understand anything spiritually. Besides, I was too busy trying to think up what I was going to say if I got called on to speak in tongues and interpret. Lone Wolf McQuade

As you know, I believe that regardless of how whacked VPW may have gotten, there was a time when his ministry was helping people and getting people saved. Some people believe that because he plagiarized and scandalized women that his entire ministry was a sham and never had God in it. In the OT, we know that Isaiah prophesied of the coming of Cryus the Persian about 200 years before he actually arrived. Isaiah 44:28-45:5 28 who says of Cyrus, 'He is my shepherd and will accomplish all that I please; he will say of Jerusalem, "Let it be rebuilt," and of the temple, "Let its foundations be laid."' 45:1 "This is what the LORD says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him and to strip kings of their armor, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut: 2 I will go before you and will level the mountains; I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron. 3 I will give you the treasures of darkness, riches stored in secret places, so that you may know that I am the LORD, the God of Israel, who summons you by name. 4 For the sake of Jacob my servant, of Israel my chosen, I summon you by name and bestow on you a title of honor, though you do not acknowledge me. 5 I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me, I was studying this just the other day and was quite taken. Here is a pagan king, and God is empowering him to conquer nations. Why? Because God needed his interests with Israel protected. God was working behind the scenes in a far away nation with people and circumstances never mentioned in scripture to insure this prophecy came to pass and help save God's people, 200 years before Cyrus' arrival. Well God certainly wants everyone to be saved (1 Tim. 2:4). So if saving people is so important, isn't there the chance God was working in VPW to save others despite his weaknesses? Cyrus didn't even acknowledge God and yet God worked to insure this guy succeeded at subduing nations, and many people being slaughtered as a result of Cyrus' conquests. VPW at least acknowledged God to some degree. He may have taken the big choke, but he was still born again and God could still work in him to save, which under his ministry, many were saved. Whether it was 100,000 or only 5,000, that's a lot of people who have been rescued from eternal death. Even if it was only 1,000 people who were saved, that's a powerful moving of the spirit. If God can work in Cyrus, an unbeliever to accomplish His will, then He can work in anybody he chooses. Lone Wolf

Thank you all for your posts. I thought I was the only one for a minute there. I am very glad to be out of TWI. I think for the first time I see the benefit of this forum in helping people to deal with the repercussions of being in a cult. I used to think people were here only to bitch about their problems. I was mistaken. Lone Wolf

Sunesis, you said... Do you really believe that? I know he had his whacked out categories, but sheesh man. God has made it so simple to be saved, I just find it hard to swallow that VP was not born again. Can you explain your position? Lone Wolf

I feel like quite an idiot. Maybe it had the impact it did on me because I was in the Way so young (teens). Lone Wolf

The Way was so big on believing=receiving. If we believe and confess the positive, what we believe and confess will surely come to pass. Likewise on the negative side. If we fear and confess the negative, what we fear and confess will surely come to pass. It's a law, and it works every time, for saint and sinner alike. How I would respond to this now is, "BULL SH#T!!!" But while in TWI, I accepted this teaching as truth just like everything else VPW said. And of course after hearing that what I fear will be brought to pass in my life, I became terribly afraid. I can remember fighting a particular category of sin in my life that I knew I was weak in and found myself falling into all the time, I would be terrified that something bad was going to happen to me, that I didn't have God's protection and that I would be afflicted by the adversary in some way whether it be a disease, financial disaster, car accident, etc. This was all due to the Grease Spot teaching: Don't leave the Way or else you won't have God's protection. If you have sin in your life, the Adversary's gonna get you. Then because I was afraid of these things, believing that what I fear will come to pass, I found myself even more afraid. And it wasn't a fear that made my hands shake or anything, it was just a quiet terror on the inside. A quiet thought in the back of my head always there with that fear, knowing "I wasn't where I should be spiritually and somehow I would pay for it". After all, the Adversary always takes his pound of flesh, right? I spent so much time worrying about how disaster would befall me because of my weaknesses and fears, I didn't have any real time for a peaceful relationship with God. The thief was stealing that from me because of my fears via false doctrine. I feel almost embarrassed and foolish about it looking back. You'd think after years and years of a fear that never materializes would make you wake up. Yet you trust in and believe the teachings of your MOG even though reality around you is saying otherwise. Don't tell me people's words aren't powerful and that brainwashing isn't a reality. I don't leave TWI with many scars, but the teaching that what you fear will come upon you scared me to death. I'm recovering now, but still struggle with it at times. Did anyone else struggle with fear issues or am I just the Lone Loser? Lone Wolf McQuade

I got 100%. Cool site. ^_^ There are a lot of 100%'s on here. Does this mean that TWI taught us at least more than your average church-goer knows about the Bible? Lone Wolf

Captain Spiritual, you said... Are you kidding? It would take Christ himself showing up in a blaze of light to get an apology (at least a sincere one) out of Craig. When you are manipulating, using, and controlling people for decades like that, your conscience is seared and that's a tough one to ever get out of. The sad part is that Craig had a lot of natural born talent. If he had just been humble to the Word, kept his heart clean, and did it right, he could have been a powerful leader. It just never seems to work that way though, does it? Cursed sin nature. Lone Wolf