MountainTopCO

One of my observations and conclusions is that the 90s were about proving your loyalty and it center on the 11th commandment. The first 10 you can be forgiven for, you know between you and God, but that 11th one is unforgivable. The 11th commandment is man made. There were many 11th commandments and they were used to put you in the cross hairs to force you to submit to your leaders. Once the leaders put you under the microscope looking for 11th commandment violations, you either totally submit to them or they put you through either a slow and painful death or a quick execution. These would be carried out in the town square so everybody could see it as a warning to all. TWI leaders must have learned this from studying the Inqusition or watching one of the Godfather movies It was all about loyalty. It was an extension of the loyalty letter of the late 80s and also included the general population.

Probably has no effect on Kool-Aid stock just like VPW/LCM has no effect for whipping up support during a crisis (real or made up) and saying they prevented it from happening so they could get the glory. The fact that God would limit himself to VPW and LCM to determine the existence of all of mankind is a bit of a stretch. I do agree with the power of prayer and due diligence but not so sure about VPW/LCM getting the lion’s share of the credit for either? Stoking the flames of fear is a very effective way to control people. The Kool-Aid tag has become a humorous reference referring to people who cannot see the truth due to blind allegiance. It seldom references extreme cults or negative situations. However, it may seem negative to the person it is refering to.

VPW was really tapped into God and must have really got revelation on that. What a waist of time and resourses. Sending a "God Bless America" poster to Jimmy Carter. The only use he would find for that is toilet paper on the peanut farm. What a joke!!!

Mike, Be sure and keep away from the kool-aid.

I agree Rascal. I’ve been out for 4 years. I have met some wonderful Godly people and learned some great principles. At one church I visited, the minister laid hands on me and ministered to me. I was delivered in a powerful way. God is alive and well and lives powerfully outside the confines of TWI.

Here is one way VPW lead people into captivity. Search around for some very controversial subjects. Pick the side that few people believe in, a side you can convince people to be right then make that issue the highest priority. And finally, make everybody who disagrees evil this way if you question it, you are evil. Here is how it breaks down. 1) pick a controversial topic 2) pick the side of the issue no other denomination is siding on 3) make it a very high priority 4) make all disagreers evil 5) don’t allow anybody to question it Result: the people have no where to go and they are captive and can’t speak freely. Heck Oldy, in some ways you are still in captivity whether you realize it or not.

Not sure what your point is Oldy??? Since leaving TWI, I have been involved in many churches. 90% of all Christian organizations don’t make you feel captive nor harass or condemn you for leaving. There are those that do and TWI is/was one of them. JC came to make the captive free not captivate them. When it comes to TWI and organizations like them, it is not a matter of feeling captive it is a matter of being captive. Have another cup of "joe".

It is far worse then being black-balled or bullied. If you believed TWI was God’s household and these were God’s people, a great fear is to be alienated from God. They used this to manipulate you and get you to loose your integrity. Of course if you were part of the inner-circle (i.e., corpse or in with your leaders) you could speak more freely. I experienced this as well. But this isn’t right either. It is pure politics.

The inability to speak freely in TWI went far beyond questioning TWI’s interpretation of the accuracy and integrity of God’s word. You could never question your leader\corpse\clergy or point out how they were wrong even if YOU were 100% right. One time I did and got black-balled. Another time I got bullied by clergy. Both times I was 100% right but it made the leader\corpse look bad.

A wierwillite is someone who has not looked behind the curtain. Even though the curtain has been openned.

The interesting thing about focusing on the accuracy and greatness of God’s word is that it is like a two edged sword. You swing it one way and it brings grace, deliverance, and insights but swing it the other way and it brings legalism, destruction and control. Same word. Ain’t that weird.

A weirwillite is someone who, inspite of all the evidence, still believes VPW is THE MGOT similar to EW Bullinger, Martin Luther and the Apostle Paul. All of which VPW found fault in.

If I would have known that VPW got his material directly from other people, I would have been interested in finding more out about these other people. Especially, since they were still alive at the time. This would have taken some focus off of VPW as the MOG of our times and would have soured his reference to himself as an apostle as one who brings new light to his day and time. VPW was no more bringing new light then I was when I was witnessing at the Mall. I never considered myself and apostle. Also, I am interested in getting my hands on some of these gentlemen’s material (i.e., J.E. Stiles and B.G. Leonard). Is there a web site I can go to and find there material for sale or some other way of purchasing their material?

Jason, my point exactly. This is why I started this thread. It was intriguing to see another group following the same path and liberating knowing that TWI was not unique. The ICOC shares in the same path from promises of privilege to the destiny of destruction. All with the same premise of uncovered truths form the Word and having a unique relationship with God, not experienced since the first century. The ICOC dispels the myth that God worked exclusively with TWI as our leaders wanted us to think or that we wanted to think. Some of the policies LCM put in place are the exact same ones used in ICOC. I wondered if LCM was getting his ideas from them or if all these sorts of organizations take the same path. It would be beneficial for all the innie lurkers to take a close look at ICOC and the similarities to TWI.

I had gotten so much deliverance from Doc Vic’s PF’nAL class and the local leadership, that there was no way any anti-way propagandists were going to convince me of anything. This held true for many years. However, early on I figured out that your life in TWI was only as good as your local leadership. If you had good local leadership, life was great. If you had bad local leadership, life was miserable. If you had bad leadership, just be patient and wait because eventually they would be gone. Mostly they went into the Corpse or WOW. Some of them were new grads from the Corpse that got sent somewhere else to get a fresh start after screwing everything up. But everything changed during the mid 1990s when LCM took total control of TWI. After that, all leaders made your life miserable. Then, when the shoe dropped concerning LCM’s inability to control himself, I started taking a closer look at things. I contacted people I knew and trusted that no longer belonged to TWI. Some were ex-clergy and ex-corpse coordinators. When you hear it from them it becomes very believable, especially when they are all saying the same thing. Grease Spot was also a tremendous help. Where anti-way propagandist could not be trusted because they always had a transparent agenda, ex-insiders were very believable and credible. Glad to be breathing the fresh air of freedom.

After reading Oz’s thread concerning Ex-JW boards, I thought I would post this concerning another ex-cult board. The International Church of Christ (ICOC) is so similar to TWI it will amaze you. I started attending one of their churches because it was so intriguing. There was a battle between the legalist and those who believed grace was a part of God’s formula. What got the splintering started was the founding leader Kip McKean had gotten so legalistic that one of his own rules got him thrown out of office. He stated that you could not be a leader if your children left ICOC. His daughter left and he was removed from office. He is now trying to regain is position in Portland OR. I think you will find it very interesting to see the similarities. I would be curious as to your feedback on this cult and its similarities to TWI. I spoke with several of the ICOC leaders in my local area advising them of the evils of legalism. Some confided in me and have since left others were ho-hum about it. The legalist finally took control and I left (9/2003). I thought that I might be able to help them make the right choice. It is funny how the legalists usually win and the non legalist end up leaving. Ex-ICOC board http://www.leebase.com/icocnews/ A member (John Engler) of ICOC’s web page http://www.barnabasministry.com/ Official web site of ICOC http://www.icoc.org/icoc/index.htm

Belle, just saw your post. I'm glad to hear I wasn't the only person that ended with "in the name of... or Amen". It may very well have been one of the ones I made up. I don't remember. I do remember how shocked I was when I finished.

I spoke in tounges like a house of fire (to coin a phrase). I first SIT about the 9th session of VP’s PFAL class. However, interpretation was a different story. My first intermediate class was Earl Burton’s class when it first came out. There were so many dos and don’ts that I was unable to do it. I had to make something up just so I didn’t look like and unbeleiver. It wasn’t until I came back from Living Victorious that I was able to actually interpret correctly. Through out most of the years I spent in TWI, I mostly (about 60%) made up what I said. It wasn’t to impress anybody it was because of the fear that I might mess-up and get in some body’s cross hairs. I knew the key to survival in TWI was to keep a low profile. There was plenty of time that my interpretations were inspired and right on. Several times my interpretations fit right in with what was covered during the teaching that followed sometimes word-for-word. One time, I remember, the person teaching told me how thankful he was after fellowship. I had some weird experiences too. I remember one time I interpreted and at the end I said “in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen”. Boy did I feel weird after that. I thought I was going to get nailed but I didn’t. I still SIT when ever I think about it or if I really need God’s help on something. I’m glad to hear that other people made it up to. I always felt bad making it up but a preferred that to the alternative.

This is an appoligy I got from my leadership. I'm sorry for all the harm that I did...I was doing what I was told or expected to do. Is this really an appology or an act to releave some guilt?

Did you know there were computers in the garden of Eden? Yes, Eve had an Apple and Adam had a Wang. Wang is a computer brand from the 1980s. The joke was going around in the early 80s.

I was in for 20 years from 1982 to 2002. I have grown more in the last year and a half (since I left) then I did the previous 5 years. Long time lurker, first time poster.

I am deeply saddened by the news of Jerry. I am a good friend of both Jerry & Kathy and have known them since they were in Huston in the 1980s but lost contact with them several years ago. I would appreciate it very much if someone could get me in contact with Kathy. My email address is ?steveweaver@pcisys.net?. Thanks, Steve Weaver