Refiner

"The Inward implosion and sucking down the plughole of the church"

He should have titled it "Instantaneous plunge into insignificance and rapid irreversible shrinkage of the church" or somethin' :P-->

Clearly then he must have been writing about some other church. -->

Take the writings of exy.every letter is a statement....every word is a drop of golden sun... every phrase a symphony... every sentence a...oh, never mind.:P-->

Galen, that was a real interesting read. youve been around a bit, Silva mind powers...Wicca.... Regardless, Your praying to God inquiring after power, and then that girl turning up next day talking about accessing power... well...thats freaky. Now who was it said I was writing a book about you guys? Certainly not true. I merely dropped in here for a look and to tell the truth ive taken a real shine to this place and to a whole lot of the people here. You guys appear to be way smarter and better read than your average ex cult member. A lot of chat boards are...well....90 percent FLUFF. Thats not the case here. I wouldnt say it if I didnt think it was so. So Im hanging around a while till you get sick of me. :D-->

Exy. You are the GSCafe Goddess and as such are allowed to feel and/or behave any way you please :D-->

I have "New dynamic church" and "The Bible tells me so" on order. So there is no doubling up with what Exy is sending. Surely a significant matter. "food in due season" is being provided.

Steve and exy. Ive got the Blue book on the way, And the (White book?) "New dynamic church". Now if exy is sending me "Holy Spirit" ..well, Im well grounded. Exy, I consider it MOST significant that you are sending me the one key book I didnt think to order myself. VERY significant. Fate?

I hadnt thought of it like that JT. You may well be right, thinking about the JayDubs it was a very closed group, the same 80 people there week after week, so when someone new turned up they stood out like a beacon and you would gravitate to them. Certainly a factor in the "focused attention". Many thanks.

Linda Z. I dont believe that "recruiters" are a specially trained cadre' trained in the skills of manipulating people. Nor do I think that cult members get together and deliberately plan to "lovebomb" a person with the intent of manipulating them. I believe these things, such as the lovebomb (to coin a very 'loaded' term),the guilt manipulation, etc, happen spontaneously within groups of a certain dynamic.Why this occurs is another of those mysteries that Im trying to figure out. I thought your comments were most excellent by the way.

Hmmm. Well if youre sending those things Exy, I'll have to send you a gift in return. You better start thinking about what you want.

Ahhh. comfort and functionality. Along with anxiety free sitting. Bliss

I have been involved with a couple groups, Such as the Elonias Foundation and Lyndon Larouche where people just lay it all on you, you got people hissing at you, shouting abuse and accusing you of betraying your country. This is real early in the piece. I suppose it is a matter of whether you are at a place in your life where you will let people treat you like a dog. Thats the only kind of person theyre looking for, if your not willing to place yourself in slavery to them very quickly, and be a punching bag, theyre not interested.

Im here to learn Vickles, and to pass on what Ive learnt. Now when I joined the Mormons that was pretty interesting. They rush you. Within a few days of commencing study you find yourself studying with them every day and youve got Mormons crawling all over you like fleas, all telling you how much they love you. Theyre calling you up, uninvited, at 11pm at night. They rush you off to the baptismal font within a week of starting study if youll let them. But we had fun with the Momos cause when the two mishies brought the local Bishie round to meet me and guide me thru study 6, I had an exit councellor there waiting for them. They werent too happy about that. Cult recruiters dont like it when you turn their own deceptive methods back on them.

WW: Makes sense if you are running DocVics group I suppose. Get them committed first, then all else will follow. It might help if DocVic put an index in the back of PFAL too, then you could search by subject. Still, I can understand his lack of enthusiasm about having one.

Hmmm. so it tended to be a friend or aquaintance apoproaching you. Either that or a "casual"(not so casual)approach by two hot specimens of the opposite sex in a public place.

G from O. When your stacked like George and me, you need a bit more room at the front there.

well, I FINISHED the book! And interesting it was too, but I have to tell you DocVic is a pain in the butt. He hands great gifts to you then puts conditions onto them. :(--> As an example- My recieving the Christ Spirit within, or being Born again. :)--> All I got to do is A)- say Jesus is my Lord, and B) - believe it, and IM saved! Im goin straight to HEAVEN, and nothing can take that away . Hallelujah! But then he tells me I cant manifest my power in the "5 senses world" unless I "renew my mind". Well THATS a bit of a let down, :(--> but it gets worse, next hes telling me Ive got to join some army and be a "soldier". What I want to do that for? Sounds like a lot of hard work to me, and Id rather watch football. :D--> Do I get a bigger mansion in heaven if I do the Soldiering bit? Clue me in willya?

About recruitment, I present an example from my own experience. A guy once invited me to a "party". He was a personal aquaintance. I go with him to the party, Its a sales pitch, though there are balloons everywhere, to indicate that its a "party". I get introduced to his "family", these are the people in his pyramid chain. The family surround me and "lovebomb" me. The women are very personal, very touchy feely and right in my face. Im surrounded by the "family" and they are bombarding me with questions trying to get me to vocalize my dreams about being super rich and visualizing what Im going to "DO with ALL THAT MONEY". Anyway, I decided to play them at their own game and show negativity to the message. At first they tried reasoning with me, then they got angry, then they turned from me in utter disgust and SHUNNED me. I was left to make my own way home. Twas Amway.

Now of course, never having attended anything connected to TWI, and wanting to get a feel for the movement, I have to keep posting asking questions. At the moment Im trying to get a feel for how members were recruited. Did they contact you at the airport? On the street? Were they running a "discussion group" at the university you were attending? Did you go through an introductory study period where you were fed "milk" doctrine? Did you have a mystical experience that convinced you it was the Truth? Were you invited to a "camp" and inducted there? Someone, please indulge me. What is the recruitment process.

TS. I certainly was not being facetious. Many people on this site have indicated that they have their own lexicons and used them regularly. Being as they spent time researching the greek, and being as there are so many blindingly apparent contradictions in Wierwilles interpretation of the greek, then I figured there must have been a mechanism for dealing with the confusion that must inevitably result from each person doing his own private searching. In other words some kind of group debating session.

Thanks steve. Now Goey said: The JayDubs have their take on this "day" period too, claiming that a "day" equals 1000 years. Adam living until 930 years of age, he died within the "day". --> As well, it can be said that he "commenced to die" on that day. Of course, a Dub "day" equals many things, including a "creative day" of 7000 years duration. Where they got the 7000 years notion from I cant say.

Ah Goey, many thanks. I knew I had read the passage about how the Ancient prophets recieved the Word, but lost the reference in the wash . It is on page 78, as you say. Of course, the Doctor there presents a number of scriptures to support the notion of "spirit upon" as opposed to "spirit within", But i notice that the Deutronomy 34 v 9 quote implies being filled rather than blanketed. JWitness meetings were very tightly regulated with everyuthing being said very directed by protocol. I definitely get the feeling that there must have been active discussion classes in PFAL with open discussion, in other words everyone commenting and even debating. Would that be correct?

Oh, anyway George, During the "personal study" period they are encouraged to put questions aside until theyve completed the program, which, of course, will answer all their questions by the time its completed. :P-->

Yeah George, Well in JDub land New recruits have a "Personal study" that may go for months where they are spoon fed 1 dribble of "Milk" at a sitting. Deep internal doctrine such as at the "Bookstudy" or the "Service meeting" ( an equivalent to "corps meetings, I suppose)is reserved till they are well and truly absorbed into the Organization. Thats what dubs call it George....THE ORGANIZATION (spoken in reverential tones)