Refiner

Hey Exy, youve got to admit Ive been real polite in the time Ive been here. I havent flamed anyone. :o--> Amazing.

Im thinking of moving the entire contingent at JWO over here. :D-->

Uh oh.

Tref: 2002 Press release: Quote:"COLORADO CITY, Ariz. -- Warren Jeffs, 46, has been named president of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, succeeding his father, Rulon Jeffs, who died in September. Warren Jeffs, who was the church's first counselor, has been serving as head of the religious organization since his father's death. Rulon Jeffs, who became president of the church in 1986 and was regarded by followers as a prophet, died at 92. His death prompted speculation about a power struggle between his son and Bishop Fred Jessop, 95, who ..was "the only living witness now of the beginning of this work here in Colorado City." End Quote. ……………………………………………….. Heres a post from the Ex Mormon Org board earlier this year when the whole thing blew up: QUOTE: "To bring you up to date regarding the crisis in CCity, a Mr. Ross Chatworth (One wife) held an open press conference today in CCity. If he wasn't a maverick, the Brethren would assign him more wives. That's right. Assign him a wife. There was media from the entire country present, the camera's and radio people ringed by a dozen cops from many jurisdictions. At least if he turns up missing and undergoes an involuntary Blood Atonement the authorities will know where to look. Chatworth says Warren Jeff's is a false prophet, called him a tyrant, and Hitler several times. He fears Jeff's exhortations and radical actions will give the idea to his zealots to burn Chatwick out or harm his family. His family business is ruined; his is totally shunned out of fear of reprisals by people who were their friends. Also, one of the most respected members of the community, Fred Jessop, 93, visited Warren Jeffs Compound, and hasn't been seen since. No guesses, perhaps a natural death, but no word of that. I suspect he Blood Atoned... End Quote. ………………………………………………….. And from earlier this year. Fred Jessop has gone missing, and the Barlow clan (Descendants of the Community founder) have been excommunicated: Quote: ..."HILDALE, Utah (AP) -- A beloved church elder is missing, a former mayor is in hiding with three of his brothers and the town prophet is being protected by a "God Squad" while dispatching his rivals. The stakes are high if it turns out this is a power struggle for control of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a polygamist-practicing breakaway faction of the larger Mormon church. Some fear blood could be spilled by the split between prophet Warren Jeffs and the Barlows, the sons of the towns' founder. Utah's attorney general fears Jeffs is turning into a maniacal ruler over the estimated 10,000 members. the Barlows' father, John Barlow, founded the community straddling the Utah-Arizona border in 1935. In the last year, Warren Jeffs has methodically rid his towns of those who dare challenge his power, excommunicating an untold number of men including four of his own brothers, said Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff."...End Quote. ........... Apparently, Tref, Mister Jeffs will not tolerate anyone around who might have any kind of moral claim to leadership. I dont know what the current status is over there, but it was interesting following the shenanigins for a while there.

Have you been following recent events in Colorado City Tref? Theres been a bit of a power struggle going on there and some possibilities of murder (blood atonement) having been done

I wish I had an autographed copy of Dr Wierwilles book, any of his books. How privilaged I would be then. It would be next best thing to having Jesus autograph. Just looking at it would instantly cure my gammy leg. (If I had a gammy leg)

Well heres a few selected excerpts from a book called “The Overlooked Key to get your prayers Answered”“, By a man called John Stone. I obtained the book from him myself while attending his group. Edited for brevity: ....“God has set up an automatic response system to deliver to us all whatever we like to call forth, provided the guidelines are followed….When you’ve learnt the rules you are master of the game…Everyone who is in poverty prayed for it without realizing it…as the result of answered prayer that they didn’t know theyd prayed…Certain things you do send messages down the line without you realizing it, and they are answered whether you want them to be or not…to get our prayers answered there is something we have to do to make it happen…The answer to your prayers depends not on whether God is pleased or displeased with you…The outcome depends only on how you do it …God is unable to grant our prayer fulfilment unless we BELIEVE it will be granted........End Quotes So it is what we “believe” will happen that determines what we receive. Stone recommends that we: Quote: ...“IMAGINE that you have ALREADY RECEIVED it. Then as you continue to imagine that you already have that benefit, the EMOTION of FEELING is generated within. And it is the FEELING that MAKES it HAPPEN”…It is actually the emotional sensation of ‘I ALREADY HAVE IT’ and you BELIEVE the prayer is answered”...End Quotes All capitalized words are his. Stone talks about the "Vibrationary frequencies" of unconditional love and its opposite which is not hate, as might be anticipated, but “fear”. The vibratory frequency of what we really believe draws, thru the law of “Resonant Attraction” the reality of that thing to us. We create our own reality. John Stone is dead now, but he used to run an “Ashtar Command” ascended masters group in Melbourne that I attended 7 or 8 years back. He was, in Christian terms, a spiritualist.

Well Ive been reading Rafs thread analyzing the "Blue Book". Having read that I can see why Amazon lists New Age books about "manifestation" techniques and "visualization" alongside the Wierwille books. Theres a large slab of "new age" thinking in the methods he espouses.You could hear those same methods espoused at any "meditation" group you cared to attend, or an "Ascended Masters" class. First time Ive ever seen those methods tied in with Bible believing though. http://affirmations.icreateforum.com/ Shakti Gawain is one exponent of the methods, as is Robert Anthony. http://www.total-success-4u.com/

Well its done now, so too bad. Live and learn I suppose. I think I might get "The New Dynamic Church" and have a look at that, The book title appeals to me, I'll leave it at that for the time being, till Ive read those.

Now of course the Title of the book Ive purchased being "Power for Abundant Living" I might do well to ask how many persons here are "living abundantly" due to having practised the techniques espoused in "PFAL" ?

The "minimum donation"... your life, your soul, and your sleep. Plus every penny youve got. Throw in your long term future wealth and mental wellbeing for good measure. Love ya VPW.Hope youre burning in hell.

A researching of the history of Soviet Russia between the years 1917 and 1928 will also reveal very many parallels between that movements shifting of doctrine and direction, and many religious Totalisms.

Rascal, thanks for asking. I suppose I wasnt free of the dogma until I obtained and read all their old material. The writings of the founder arent readily available and had to be obtained via splinter church, the Berean Bible Institute. Once I read those, which referred to early Adventist links, I then started in reading up on Adventism. After about 5 years of reading Id covered every Magazine article written by the Watchtower between 1879AD and 1930AD. Reading what they had written bacjk then as opposed to what they SAID theyd written back then, It was clear there was a coverup going on. After that I became interested in the mechanics of the coverup, the reasons for the coverup, and the justifications they used to explain the coverup. It was very educational. The main reason for the coverup is their desire to look infallible. They cannot admit error, or that they have changed doctrine. Adolf Hitler explains why this is necessary within a Totalistic movement in "Mein Kampf"

Well Steve, thats like when I went to the Adventist gathering and they were all wandering around outside debating each other instead of listening to the program inside. (Adventists do that a lot). A lot of people outside were selling Ellen White books, except they werent "selling" them cause that would be "business" and your not allowed to conduct "business" on the Sabbath. They were however accepting "donations". I notice at Amazon books that when you type in "Power for abundant living" that Amazon then offers "related" books and these appear to be related to subjects of manifestation and visualization.

Thats great, Ive bought "Power For Abundant Living" for 50 Bucks, when I couldve bought it under another Title "Power for Abundant Living-The accuracy of the Bible" for 15 bucks. Sheesh.

Id be willing to give Mike a Rabies Shot

Well you have me at a disadvantage Raf, in that My views of What TWI practise are minimal and Im only now forming opinions based on what ive read here. So I may well be in error. Certainly the Witrnesses are horrified by any displays of emotional charismata. They believe such things are of the Devil.

Hi exy, its 7 am here and Im just on my morning stint before work.I think that TWI is Christ centered, wheras the dubs is focused upon Yahweh as a seperate character from Christ. Yahwehs a very ANGRY person. So dubs are reared on a view of God that is far away from the view of God that many posters here would hold.

Yes. I do have one question though Mike. Apparently, according to the voting, 2/3 of posters think you are at least partially right in your assertions, yet the only people who respond to you in these threads appear to be the minority who are critical of you and wish to scoff and mock. Why do you think it is that those who partially agree with you remain so silent?

Well Mike, to say that so many are piled on you bagging everything you say, I think you maintain a remarkeable sense of humour about the whole thing. My congratulations to you.

A poster such as Mike is indispensible to the forum. If he wasnt here, who would there be for the doctrinal buffs to sharpen their wits against and disagree with? :P-->

Trefor, you seem to know a considerable amount about Mormonism,certainly more than me. I wasnt aware that there was a temple on the Independence site. I assume you were a practising member at one stage?

Goey. Well I was raised in the JWs from 6 years of age until I left at 24. So I guess I had no say in that one. As to the other groups, well I didnt believe any of their doctrines, I was merely experiencing their miliueu and studying their doctrine as reference for the book I was writing.I started writing the book in 1992 and (by prearrangement) stopped attending cults as at January 1, 2001. I wasnt alone in the venture, there were a group of 4 of us involved in the exercize of joining groups. Its interesting to consider that a large proportion of former Wayfers seem to be still Christian, while the majority of former dubs that I know are virulently non believers in anything. There must be a reason for that.

Im always very nice to Mormon missionaries, they are just poor overworked kids with worn out shoes. I always give them a cool drink and allow them to sit awhile. An interesting note about them, if two mormon girls come to the door and you invite them in, they wont enter unless there is a female in the house.It didnt matter if my 10 year old son was there. They wouldnt enter. I think I heard that some Momo Mishie boys got tied to beds and used as sex slaves by a group of old biddies a few years back. The church doesnt want that kind of thing happening again.

WW. PFAL then, in "Mikethink" is even more significant than the Bible? It is a superceeding of the OT/NT? How fortunate Mike is then to have been chosen, out of all men, to be the ONE to fully understand the things that even VPW, despite being the author of the PFAL,did not fully comprehend.