Raf

You are the liar here, Mike. But I appreciate your assessment of me. Coming from you, I take it as the highest of compliments. If I've got your Satanic influence worried about the source of any revelation I may receive, then I am surely doing something right.

Years ago. I came to PFAL assuming it all to be true. It was only through careful reading and prayer that I realized that not all of its contents were true. When you came along spouting your idolatrous nonsense, it was as easy to refute as someone walking around talking about the moon being made of green cheese. I think it's clever that you refer to my rejection of your nonsense as idolatry. Telling me that I idolize tradition is plain old ordinary flat out stupid, but coming from you, I'd call it standard. You, on the other hand, idolize the imperfect work of an imperfect man. And you proudly proclaim your unwillingness to consider a contrary point of view. You CLAIM you looked at PFAL honestly, but your words have demonstrated that you have always considered PFAL to be God-breathed. YOU HAVE NEVER HONESTLY CONSIDERED THE POSSIBILITY THAT PFAL IS NOT GOD-BREATHED. I reject your idolatrous swill, Mike.

So you're less likely to consider the merit of our counterarguments to your idolatry because we outnumber you, right?

Mike, You have so established a lack of trustworthiness that your denials prove my conclusions more than any recap or quote of your idolatrous rantings. But thank you for playing. That wasn't the poster's implication. That was your inference. The poster (Def) only cited a statistic. You're the one who injected meaning into it. Take a grammar class, it will help you communicate more effectively.

Dan, you're looking at Def's post from the wrong perspective. Look at my earlier post and you'll see where Def was coming from. Def, my post was aimed at my inference from Mike's post, namely, that he finds comfort in the fact that most of us are rejecting him. The fact that one's views are rejected are not an indicator that they are right.

Did you mean Ref, Raf or Def? Which was it, Tom?

Originally posted by Mike: A majority of Christians rejected Charles Taze Russell. A majority of Christians rejected The Prophet Joseph Smith. A majority of Christians reject Papal Infallibility. A majority of Christians rejected gnosticism. A majority of Christians reject Rev. Moon. A majority of Christians rejected the Branch Davidians. The level of acceptance of a doctrine is no guarantee of that doctrine's accuracy. The level of rejection of a doctrine is no guarantee of that doctrine's accuracy. You and God would make a majority, if only you would listen to Him. Too bad you continue to refuse.

Oldiesman has a copy of the book signed by VPW. Your memory notwithstanding, I think that proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that he was alive when it was published. Perhaps the ROA was the first time you saw it, even though it was released a few months earlier? Or maybe he pre-signed a bunch of copies?

Nope. You might be thinking of Living Victoriously and Take God at His Word. Both were edited and released posthumously.

Correction, Tom: That one vote is "I'm willing to give Mike a shot." Mike has not voted (presumably).

By the way, it's "Unitarian Universalist."

You'd probably have more success with the pig. Mike, however, has proven to be an excellent dancer: dancing around questions, for example, seems to be his specialty.

Try this site. Call first. Make sure the music is still available.

Sal Arico, a New York believer, put a CD out for one of the offshoots in 1995. It was called "Watching." One of the tracks was based on a Wierwille saying from Lifelines. I know, I know, but pretend it was anyone but Wierwille who said it. Or pretend that this was really real, from the heart... Every man has a void inside and he fills it up with lots of ego and pride while searching for the truth the devil tries to blind his eyes. But God gave his grace and those that hear with humble hearts listening, to God they draw near To give them their hearts' desire His Word sets their soul on fire All I want to do is serve God Love His people, and move the Word Give Him all the strength that I've got Love Him with all my mind, all my soul Give God all the love my heart can hold. This song is a gem. Well done, Sal.

Or maybe I give JW's a bit more credit than you do. At least they actually meant "master" when they called him "master." My problem with JW's was the legalism. My problem with TWI turns out to be the licentiousness. Best of both worlds.

No one in the family is active any more. My father still believes it, but does not attend their meetings. Same with mom. They're divorced. Sibs were never into it, and it never caught on with the extended family. I remember when I got witnessed to by TWI: I was stunned to hear there were Christians in the world who believed Jesus Christ was God. Little did I know that they were the majority!

Refi: you must understand that there's no such thing as "partially agreeing" with Mike. By your standard, I "partially agree" with Mike, because I think there's some useful stuff in PFAL. But the reality is that Mike is completely sold out to PFAL, considers it more authoritative than the Bible, thinks the ground shook where VPW walked, and thinks Jesus will come back to earth teaching out of a PFAL book. I utterly reject that nonsense. Most of us see PFAL for what it is, and appreciate it as such. Mike's idolatry doesn't detract from PFAL's value. So, to borrow a phrase from Alice Krige: you imagine a duality where none exists. The people who "partially agree" with Mike ARE the people who are speaking up against his sycophantic misogynistic idolatry. You ask why they don't post when, in fact, those are pretty much the only ones posting on Mike's threads.

Through age 12. After that I was hanging around, but not active.

Interesting that you would call TWI Christ-centered, Refiner. I think TWI was very concerned with the person of Jesus Christ, and in that sense I agree with you. TWI was concerned about his identity, his mission, and his accomplishments. They were concerned about what is available to Christians today as a result of the work that Christ accomplished. They eagerly anticipate his return, which they view as beginning with a pretribulation rapture of the saints. But at the same time, their particular form of dispensationalism places a far greater emphasis on the Jesus Christ revealed in the letters of Paul, with a much lesser emphasis (doctrinally speaking) on the Jesus Christ revealed in the gospels. But TWI has a bit in common with JWs in that prayer is ALWAYS addressed to God the Father, and is in the name of the Son. Here's some distinctions: JW's think of Jesus as "The Master." TWI hardly ever thinks of him that way. JW's think of Jesus as "The Great Teacher." TWI hardly ever refers to him that way. TWI thinks of Jesus as Lord, but for my money, you'd be hard put to get a TWI follower to tell you what that lordship means. TWI is Christ-centered? Having been in both TWI and the JW's, I would argue that your dichotomy between the two groups, at least on this subject, is flawed (which is to say that JW's are as Christ-centered as TWI). The I think the real distinction between the two groups is in the area of pneumatikos/charismata.

I voted for some good points. Glad you find pleasure in that. You're still an idolatrous sycophant.

And we're being asked what we think of your doctrine. It should stay right here.

Ooh, "Star of the Show." I LOVED "Star of the Show." And Billy Falcon's "Spark in the Dark" was great too.

Okay, equal time... I don't remember the name of the song. I think it was "I Love You" by Acts 29. I know your heart I know how hard you've tried I know you're weary from the load you carry You won't get very far I am not condemning you I never will my son You're completely, completely, completely righteous Now it's already done And I love you, I love you, I love you Can I say it a hundred more times There's nothing you can ever do to change the way I love you I love you, I love you, I love you What else can I do Love is what I am my child And I can't stop loving you... There was more, but I always had a soft spot in my heart for that song. What about you? (And please save all the critical stuff for "The Worst Way Song" thread).

If you can accept that a non-Trinitarian can accept the lordship of Jesus Christ and thus have the same salvation and promises that you have, then I agree, let's get on with the business of being Christians. But if you can't accept that premise (and there are many Trinitarians who cannot), then you are accusing me of not being truly Christian. And I have to disagree with that judgment. And then get on to the business of being Christian. :)-->

I rest my case. :)-->