Robes

There is a discussion going on at The-Way@YahooGroups on how viable the idea of the latest Way 'youngsters' (young people who have grown up in TWI) returning TWI to it's former glory is. I don't usually like to cross sites and carry on discussions, but there were a couple of points that were very interesting that I thought I might like to have some of ya'll's opinions on it all. The original question (and I will leave out the lady's name who posted it because I haven't asked her permission to quote her...and I will change it up a bit so it's not a direct quote) was something like, "I've talked to some of the TWI youth and there seems to be a renewed vision for TWI as they rise up. They have a fresh outlook and love for God and don't take much crap from the 'older generation'. Is TWI salvageable?" The person she asked this of, someone who's written about TWI in the past, stated, "You say "they don't take much crap from the 'older generation.'" But the 'older generation' was interested in reform, while the new generation has been programmed to refuse to listen to anything these "sticks" have to say." "TWI salvagable? Not a chance, in my humble opinion." My response is this: "Please allow me to chime in on your question, and K's answer, to say that I, too, doubt that there is a chance that TWI is salvageable. Why? Well, because there are so many of us who remember how it used to be...or at least, how we THOUGHT it used to be. It was a fantasy land for so many of us. It never really existed. But it what we thought it was was incredible. We could have anything we wanted just by 'believing'. Everyone was 'good' if they took PFAL and went to fellowship. We aspired to be a Twig 'Leader' and it was the greatest thing. We could 'love' people with the 'love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation' and that had no sexuall connotations whatsoever. We could be a 'family'. We could 'forgive and forget' completely and absolutely. We could put things in the 'lockbox'. We all believed the same thing. We just absolutely were 'likeminded' on the 'Word' and there was no arguement. We were responsible to 'obey' leadership. If they were wrong and we 'obeyed' then we were 'covered' by God. Our thoughts were the same. Our language was the same. Wasn't it great? No. It was not. We now have seen how dangerous all that thinking was, and can be. There is no fantasy land that is a true place. To be safe, one MUST question. One MUST make their own decisions. One MUST see how vitally important it is to make one's own decisions based on what they have learned in life. We MUST retain our identities and not conform to a cult's mind set and habit patterns. I loved TWI when I was in it. I was in my early 20's. The Cinderella story was still able to be true for me then. It isn't now. Not for me, not for most of us. We know too much and we have learned too much. Good God, if you can't trust and believe in the VERY PEOPLE who represent God to you, who can you believe in? And why should we? Unfortunately those young TWIers may try to put together a semblence of the group we once knew but I hope to God that anyone and everyone reaches out and convinces them that it's the wrong thing to do. How many times does one need to see utter failure before realizing something won't work? TWI had two dynamic, charismatic leaders who eventually became corrupted and toxic. Do you all really think it can ever come back and be clean and pure? There is no way. Not if the man who created it, loved it, and nurtured it himself couldn't stay pure. No one can do it. No one. If we want that sort of thing, we must be content to waiting for the Gathering Together. It won't happen until then. It is not, in my opinion, available for a group to be completely good and idyllic in this day and age...not while we are still human. It's the human faults, the very things talked about in the bible, that keep a group from being Godly and all good. The greed. The lust. The jealousy. The struggle for power. The FEAR. And boy oh boy, if there ever was a group that was led by FEAR, TWI is that group. Nope, as long as we are human, TWI can't be brought back...at least not in the way that we once believed it was." What do YOU think? Can TWI be salvaged by the 'youngsters'? I'd especially love to hear an answer to this FROM some of the youngsters. Robi

Yay Lisa!! Congratulations! Now, what can we do to help get BATE's Law passed? http://www.bateslaw.blogspot.com/ Here's the link for anyone who hasn't taken a look. Lisa, if you could email me a cover sheet and the story, I will help circulate it around the ER and hospitals where I work. We HATE it when we see victims of child abuse and I would love to add some names to a petition, if that's the best way to handle it. Any other suggestions?? hugs, Robi Robi2777@yahoo.com

Shaz, Thanks for the info. I contracted Lyme Disease in 1990 and I have never felt the same since. I immediately began having arthralgias & extreme fatigue. Fortunately, I had a good doctor who diagnosed it and I spent several months on antibiotics. I had a tick bite 6 weeks prior to the symptoms, but no bull's eye rash. Unfortunately, the antiobiotics made me sick as well, and when I went to another infectious disease doctor, he said he didn't think I ever had Lyme Disease in the first place. Duh. Now I see why. I got better for about 8 years, then began having the same symptons...extreme fatigue, arthralgias. When I went back to the Infectious Disease doctor (the other doctor was now in a different city), I told him I thought I was having a reoccurance of the Lyme's. He again reiterated that he didn't think I ever had it, did a bunch of tests, and told me I had Fibromyalgia. So now I live with that. Who knows what the heck I have. I'm afraid to take antibiotics again since I got so sick from them last time (pseudomembranous colitis) so I ache, and I'm tired. All the time. It has changed my life. I can barely remember feeling good now. I'm all for better testing that can prove Lyme's Disease when one has it. I'm also all for early, aggressive treatment. When I had it, in Macon, Georgia, another girl that I worked with had it as well. We both had IV antibiotics. I think that's what the medical profession has balked at...since there's a test that is basically hit or miss (as you know, if you don't get tested at exactly the right time, it won't show up in your blood system), they don't like prescribing antibiotics. Thanks for bringing awareness to this. I hope you and your son do well. hugs, Robi

I'd say attempting to win child custody based on the 'badness' of TWI is a very difficult thing to do. Judges simply don't want to hear things about a religious group because in this country, we have religious freedom. That being said, I was successful in obtaining full custody of my kids from my still 'in' ex-husband. How did I do it? Well, several ways. First of all, I did my research and was fully prepared to win a case based on the cult thing, and my ex knew it. I had documentation, video tapes, audio tapes, etc. I had two large file boxes full of information. Second, it dragged out for a few years, until my ex was dating someone who was also 'in'. I'd pretended I wanted to get back with him and started writing his Limb Coordinator (state leader) telling him we had children who were beginning to enter their teens and needed BOTH parents and would he (the leader) help counsel us so we could get back together for our kids! BOY did that stir up the pot !! That Limb Leader came down on him and got him moving on this thing faster than anything! He'd told the Limb Coord. (or allowed him to believe) that we were already divorced (we were just 'separated' for about 5 years) and it was the Limb Coord who helped fix him up with his ex-corps girlfriend. Egg on his face, for sure!! Another critical thing...after all the times he was late making child support payments, or just didn't make them at all (and me trying to be 'understanding' and not doing anything about it). I finally TOOK ACTION when he missed a payment and didn't pay for 30 days. I had him arrested for 'abandoning his children' (the requirements are no money, no food, no clothing, NOTHING to provide for them for 30 days continuous, it's considered "abandonment"). It turned out that was the ticket. When we went to court to finish up the divorce and decide custody, he was anxious to get those charges dropped against him so he could save face in TWI and continue to be a good little 'believer' so he was willing to negotiate. He also wanted to continue his relationship with his new girlfriend. Lucky me. He ended up negotiating away his custody arrangements. He got no custody. I got full custody, care and control of the children with a stipulation that they were NOT allowed to go to TWI classes at all. My daughter, who was 14 at the time, wanted to still visit with her father and didn't mind going to fellowships on the Sundays that she was there, so I allowed her to do that. My son, who was 12 or 13, didn't want anything to do with TWI so he had me put in that there were NO fellowship meetings at all for him. He couldn't even go to a picnic with his father if there were other people from TWI there. Boy, was my son happy. My daughter, who was still daddy's little girl, was a more delicate thing. I had to give her something or she would have rebelled and caused me a lot of grief. The way we did it...with neither of them having to go for visitation unless they wanted to made it easy for her to say no when she didn't want to be around them. Their dad used to force their visitations, even if they didn't want to go. Now that my daughter is grown, and even by the time she was in high school, she had seen the light and wasn't very willing to go to her dad's, and even became somewhat resentful that she couldn't go over for a visit without Way people being there, or having to go off to a dumb fellowship somewhere. Another point of resentment for both my children: they have seen me work my behind off to give them the things they needed, a stable home (not an apartment that we move from with different roommates every year), vacations, college. My daughter is so sick of hearing her father say, "It's not in my budget." There are two people making money in his household now (he married that woman) and yet all their money goes to TWI. My daughter and I paid for her college. Her father didn't help a bit. Unfortunately, my son has very little to do with his father now. His father used to blame me but I threw it right back in his face and told him his own actions are what caused his son to be distanced from him. Good luck with the case. It is a difficult one to win, but it can be won. Just keep praying, and when God tells you to do something, DO IT! I would have been in for a long, drawn out ordeal had my ex not screwed up and 'forgotten' to pay child support and had I not filed charges against him for it, when he'd done that for many years previously ! It was just that one time that counted... Robes

Herbs, I wouldn't ever completely quit my day (ok, night!) job. I only want to do this to make a little extra on the side from my hobby. I like making the stuff, but how much jewelry does one really need. OK, maybe that's a stupid question, but you know what I mean. Anyways, I'd do it on the side, kind of like just making sales to support my hobby. The other thing is that since my kids are now out of the house at college, and since I don't go out much because when I'm not working I need to be resting, I have plenty of time to do something like this. May as well make money out of it. I also take painting classes...oils and watercolors...but I haven't become brave enough to think I could sell art!! Thanks for the suggestions. And Tom, I'll email Onion Eater. Thanks for the lead. That's what I wanted to do...talk with people who do this stuff. You guys have been very helpful! Herbs...who was that up in the northeast that used to make jewelry? You guys used to talk on the phone and stuff, I think you even met in person or something. I can't remember her name but I know she lived in a cottage on cape cod or something. Did she sell her jewelry or just make it for herself? hugs, Robi

Herbs... I'm not interested in selling anything at craft shows...for the very reason I am having trouble being a nurse! I am just exploring options should I want to sell via the internet. There's no way I could trudge anywhere with a stool, let alone a table and things to sell. I'd be interested in the craftsman report, anyways. How do I get hold of one?

'82-'83 - I was a WOW in New Orleans, it was an Outreach City and very busy. I witnessed to, and then married, a guy who lived there. We didn't know anything was wrong at HQ, although there was plenty of signs of it in N.O. Tough year, but of course, we thought it was only because it was our WOW year and had nothing to do with things at the root. My husband and I actually married in June of my WOW year and we told no one except my WOW sister. We had planned to marry in September, but he was from another country and was having immigration problems. The lawyer told us to get married or say goodbye...so we got married at a justice of the peace. Only we couldn't live together until AFTER my WOW year was over! LOL, how many people do you know who didn't live together until TWO MONTHS after they got married?? And the ROA really WAS my honeymoon! In a tent, no less...LOL! 1984 - I had a baby and then my whole family decided to meet back in Georgia to live close to one another. I'd originally taken the class there, so I hooked back up with old believers in Macon. 1985 - Went to twig some, but it was difficult since my husband decided he didn't want to go anymore and I had a baby...then got preggers with another. 1986 - Second baby came along. Ran into an old friend who'd undershepparded me thru my first PFAL & hung out with them some, went to twig with them occasionally. 1987 - Started nursing school with a 1 year old and a 2 year old. Had very little time to go to twig. Very little. This was God protecting my heart. I remember my friends, the twig leaders, told me things had changed in TWI, and many people had left. I couldn't believe it and I was sad, but damn! I was busy!! 1990 - Graduated nursing school. Began thinking about going to Twig but there was none in Macon, Georgia. Contacted HQ and got some books and tapes. Listened to old tapes a lot. Read old books. Homeschooled my kids and worked two jobs as a nurse. 1994 - Marriage was in trouble. Finally got my husband to go to church for counseling, and then to church service at an Assemblies of God church. It was nice, but I didn't feel the same as I had in the early TWI days...and I longed for that. Called HQ and got an address of a Twig in Atlanta. Drove 110 miles each way to twig, with the kids in the back seat. Good thing I was homeschooling! Husband started getting suspicious of who I was going to see...finally started going to twig with me. But...things were different...wooden...not as loving and tender. I was told to throw away all my old TWI stuff. I didn't. 1995 - After very ineffective counseling by 'TWIT Ministers' I finally threw my husband out after he threatened to kill me. The TWIT minister called and told me to change my mind. I said no. The Limb UnCoordinator called me and told me I was wrong, and that I should have told him we were having problems. I said, "Your TWIT Minister assured me that he kept you informed. Why would I have thought any different?" He told me to change my mind. I told him, "I'm an educated person. I will NOT stay in an abusive relationship." When he kept blabbing about how screwed up I was, I respectfully told him I no longer wished to discuss it with him....then I hung up. The TWIT minister called me back, told me that when I 1) apologized to my husband, 2) allowed him back into our home, and 3) apologized to 'the Man of God for the State' THEN I could go back to TWI. I said, "I don't think I'll be doing that," and I hung up. I firmly believe that God protected my heart during the 80's by keeping me busy elsewhere. I often wondered how I allowed myself to fade away during that time when I'd been gung ho "I'll stand no matter what." Now I know why it happened. I remember being sad about VPW's passing...but I had two little babies to tend to. When there was more distance from the fog years, I re-entered TWI, but by then I had enough self respect and fortitude to handle the change...and get out when I saw it was bad. I still mourned the loss of TWI more than the loss of my marriage. Go figure. I guess it was because they were the people who were supposed to love me with unconditional love and be my support system...then, when I needed them the most, they threw me out. Ha. Turns out I didn't need them that much. Edited to correct grammar and punctuation, once again!

Thanks, Hap! It's good to see you again! Hey, do you remember my IM name? Because I don't and I can't log in to the damn thing if I can't remember the name!! Let me know if you know it...PM me. I've changed computers twice since and now my son is not home to tell me how to retrieve everything. Thanks for the info. If I have to set up a bank account then I'd better get busy making stuff!! Hugs, Robi

Charley-doll! How are you?? The time away was good. I found I got burnt out on everything after my brother died...and it all crashed in on me. I had to be strong when it was happening and then when it was over, the grieving and everything got to me. It's good to be back and see my old friends! I've thought of something like that. I may reconsider. In fact, I just sent an email to someone asking them about being a transcriptionist since I type well and know all the medical terminology. I keep saying I'd hate an office job because I love nursing so much...but maybe it's just that I'm afraid of the unknown. Who knows? Whatever I do, I can do it and still work in the hospital a shift or two a week, so I don't know why I don't just go for it. One thing is that I love working only 3 days a week (as a nurse I work three 12 hour shifts a week). The other thing is that I love working night shift. The other thing is I love being independent and nursing is kind of independent. I appreciate your suggestion and I'll look into it. When you say good money, what kind of money is good to you? I'm used to making about $35-40 an hour, but it is at a high cost to me! Will I be able to make that much doing auditing? (((((Charley))))

Thanks, Herb. I went to a little craft show or something in Canton and there was a man with turned wood bowls. It made me think of you fondly! I'll bet yours were even better! hugs, Robes

Six years? WOW! How many of you remember when we all sat around the computer, on the milenium, waiting to see if we'd blow up or something?! I remember each area of the country reporting in that they were safe and all was well...even the folks in New Zealand! We'd watch the east coast turn midnight, then the west. It was great. I think chat was real new then and we mostly had to us IM's. Thanks, Paw, for taking on the mantel of WayDale and turning it into the GreaseSpot Cafe. Oh, I mean, uh, for starting GreaseSpot ALL ON YOUR OWN! Ha. To heck with the Way and their stoopid ways... We've all come a long way, haven't we?

Hiya, Herbs! OK, so maybe I don't need a wholesale license. What do I need if I want to sell stuff? Do I need a tax ID number or something? It's good to 'see' you! hugs, robi

Wow, Sami, the jewelry is beautiful! What a great thing to be doing! How can you NOT make money with that? If I get to feeling better, I'll let you know. It seems like a great way to make money...by providing people with jewelry! I put your website address here again so people could take a look. Robes

Thanks for the answers, ya'll! I really just want a wholesale license so I can buy the stuff to make jewelry at wholesale prices. And then, if I want to sell some of it on, say, ebay, I want to be legit. Is this what I need to do? Get a wholesale license and then a tax ID? I hadn't even thought about setting up a name but I love the "SuperCoolJewelry" name, Jim! LOL! Sami-Jade, Thanks for the lead! I'll certainly look at your website but I'm not sure I'm the best one to be doing home parties. As much as some of the people here will argue the point, I can be downright shy and unsociable at times! Actually, I have fibromyalgia and it makes me extremely exausted (and painful) at times, so much so that I hate making plans ahead of time. I don't even like to date much because if I make a date on Monday, usually by Friday the LAST thing I want to do is go out! I don't know if I'd be the best to book a party and then have to show up and smile at people. Problem is, if I look at your web site, I might just buy a bunch of jewelry for myself!! Someone here used to make jewelry. I've forgotten her name now...but it seems like we weren't the best of friends (my fault, I'm sure!). She lived up in the northeast in Cape Cod or something like that. Does anyone know how she sold her stuff? Thanks again! hugs, Robi

The Latin men like a heavier woman, too. It's just American men who like the Twiggy skinny kind of gal. Me, I like a man I can hold on to. I wouldn't want him blowing away in the wind!! hugs, Robi

Hey gang, As I become less and less able to run around and be a nurse, I'm trying to think of things that I would love to do for a job. One of them involves making jewelry and such. I know I won't be able to replace my income completely, but every little bit will help me not have to run around. Problem is, I don't know how to go about getting a wholesale license and all that. I did a search on the net and it only gave me a gazillion choices, so naturally, I'm overwhelmed. I can't sit at the computer long enough to sort through it all... I'm hoping someone who's gone through it can give me some easy answers. I'm in Georgia, if that matters. Another thing, do I need a tax ID number? How do I get that, or is it the same thing? <<sigh>> It's tough to be the head of a household. I'm sure God didn't mean for women to handle it all, alone....but that's the topic of another thread... hugs, Robi

How come whenever I try to sign up at myspace.com (not just the TWI site) I get directed to a place that says: "can't find the web site 400 Bad Request The site may no longer exist or it may have moved. Double-check for any misspellings, punctuation errors, or extra spaces. If these suggestions do not work, try restarting your computer. " I've tried different ways to get in...through their main page and through the TWI page. I even used this url: http://signup.myspace.com/index.cfm%3Ffuseaction%3DJoin Any suggestions? I have kids the age of these kids and I'm interested in what they are saying. Thanks, Robi

Hi Ron! Hi Mo! CC, I can't wait to hear your decision. After you investigate and/or talk to him again and make a decision, will you let us know what you decided? Thanks! hugs, robi

Happy Birthday from me and the kitties!! Hope all is well with Hope!

Being a southern girl, I hafta say I side with what Belle and Chas say....where's he at now? Now, back in the '50s & '60s it was fairly common for people to be in the KKK down here but one thing that strikes me is that this guy was in the KKK in 1980. That was a different time. I'd dismiss it easily if it were in the 50's or 60's, but the 80's? Not so fast... Look carefully at what he's been up to lately. I think it is absolutely obscene to be racist in this day and age and I'd be darn careful to keep a racist away from any group I cared about (or, I'd be careful that I'd stay far, far away from such a group). hugs, robi

Raf, I am proud of you, regardless. To be nominated twice in two years...that's a great thing. You ARE a winner and I will read what you write forever! hugs, robi

Just for fun... Did anybody but me notice that the 'Athlete's of the Spirit' outfit that LCM wore (and that stupid, lifesized puppet thing that represented the AOS at the Rock) were the striped colors of Gay-Pride? You know...the Gay Pride Rainbow thing? You remember that spandex outfit...white with rainbow colors running down the side. LOL... It would be funny if it weren't so ironic. Actually, the biggest problem I had with LCM being anti-gay is that he did it with such PURE HATRED. What happened to loving people until they came to a knowledge of the Word? What happened to loving people into living? What happened to hating the sin but loving the sinner? LCM never got that, did he? He just HATED. And I have a real problem with that. When my ex was taking my kids to fellowships (after I left TWI...and after LCM went over the top) I became very disturbed that what they were learning in TWI was HATE. I had to talk with them often about how wrong it was that he was teaching people to hate others and that it was wrong to hate. You hate what people do maybe, but you can never quit loving people if you want to help them.

Hiya, Medic! How've you been? I just got DSL, finally, after moving several months ago and suffering through dial-up and AOHELL! How've you been? Where are you? It's sure good to see you and all my other old friends! Robi

Thanks, dmiller! I appreciate that! Robi

Ricky, I also want to welcome you here. I have two college age children, and an ex-husband who is still 'in'. I do believe you are in an exceptional area with some very loving people. I was fortunate enough to spend many years in a area like that. The only problem was, the root system. *sigh* I hope your experiences are wonderful and that you never get a bitter taste in your mouth. I agree with the others who have said "watch your back." I won't say anything negative about the present TWI folks to you because I believe it will never be "true" to you, no matter how many people say things. The only thing that will ring true to you will be your experiences and observations while you are there. That's valuable experience. Unfortunately sometimes hurtful, but valuable. Make this promise to yourself, it's one I made to myself when I returned to TWI in the mid 90's (after having faded away for awhile to get married, have kids and go to college myself in the late 80's). The promise is that you will "prove all things, hold fast to that which is true." Familiar, hmm? Yep, and it was exactly what I told my former fellowship coordinators when I went back after an absence. They kept telling me that "things weren't the same in TWI," that "all the good people" had left, and that there was "a lot of corruption" happening. I absolutely couldn't believe them, even though they were the most honest, loving people I knew...and my best friends. Boy was I stubborn. What I told them was that I was sure their opinions had some merit but that I needed to see for myself because that's what God asks of us. "Prove all things...etc." I went back, and learned what I needed to learn. I proved it to myself. Now I have absolutely no question that I've done the right thing for me. I left. My kids were in limbo when I separated from my husband (they are now your age). I did not tell them they couldn't go to fellowship. Although their dad and I had some major issues, I let the kids decide for themselves. The went with to fellowship for awhile. My daughter even took the WAP class. Quickly, they changed their minds and didn't want to go so much. In fact, my son started getting sick over it. He begged me to keep him away from them. He tried to skip visits with his dad. My daughter, very loyal to her dad, wanted to keep seeing her dad and doing what made him happy. At the request of my children, I ended up having to get a court order, unfortunately, to protect them. Their dad wouldn't listen to their opinions and requests. He wanted to force them to go and he refused to take no for an answer. He INSISTED they come for visits and he INSISTED they go to TWI functions when they were there. The court order read that, in NO WAY, was my son to EVER attend a TWI function, or any function that had 3 TWI members at it, not even a picnic. Well, the court order didn't say "picnic" but that was the idea! It read that my daughter could make her own choice of whether to attend fellowships or not, depending on what she wanted, but that she could not attend classes while under age 18. She had the choice of not going to fellowship if she was visiting her dad the weekends she was there, or supposed to be there, if she didn't want to go. I have to tell you, I doubt she ever told him no. But she didn't take any more classes. That worked for us. It would have been nicer to do it without the court order, but their dad wouldn't allow that. Their dad is still very much 'IN' TWI. Neither of my kids are. My daugher, now almost 22 and a senior in college, visits her dad rarely, and has no interest in TWI. She sometimes goes to things with her dad just to see old friends (there were some cute boys in her area ), but she has no interest in TWI doctrine. She took some bible classes in college that were helpful to her in seeing 'the big picture' of God and religion, and we always talk about making good 'choices' in life. We talk about the greatness of different religions, and the not so great things of some of them. She makes great choices. Sadly, my son no longer has a relationship with his father. His father chose TWI over him and my son will be hurt for the rest of his life by that. So, Ricky, I took the long way to tell you this: make good choices. To do that, you have to 'prove all things and hold fast to that which is good.' (I'd quote the scripture if I knew it...I'm just too lazy to look it up!) Hang in there, guard your heart, watch your back, and do what's right for you. God bless you...and remember how precious you are to Him! He doesn't want you hurt, either. Watch and listen when He talks. hugs, Robi