Stayed Too Long

22 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

Well, 

if one is a Roman Catholic, that's the way to go. 

For basically all other Christians, that's the wrong way to enact one's prayer life.  

(Also, perhaps St. Bruno is to be prayed to if SOMEONE ELSE is possessed.  It's probably hard to pray if you're possessed and in an episode.) 

He is the patron saint of the possessed one.

October 6: Saint Bruno, Priest—Optional Memorial

1030–1101
Patron Saint of possessed people
Equivalent canonization by Pope Leo X in 1514
Liturgical Color: White

There is another thread discussing the veneration of Mary and how Charlie Kirk believed venerating her would help women. I did some research and discovered there is a Roman Catholic saint for every ailment and challenge a person could possibly experience in their life. 
If you are having issues with your bees, pray to St Ambrose.
Pray to St Angela Merici if you are handicapped.

Pray to St Bruno if you are possessed.

Here is a list of saints to pray to when you need their assistance.

https://mycatholic.life/saints

3 hours ago, waysider said:

If you're serious about finding him, he has content on youtube. Not my cup of tea, but you do you.

Have no desire to know anything about LCM’s research.

I did checkout the bookstore and found none of LCM’s research. After 25 years his memory seems to have been erased. 

After thirty years of absence the ROA is once again apart of The Way International’s calendar. LCM cancelled the Rock because the Word of God had successfully gone over the World. God had told Craig to begin living in the Land of the Prevailing Word. It seems all of TWI’s witnessing efforts had finally brought about VPW’s vision of every person in the world, who wanted to know the Rightly Divided Word, having had that opportunity. 

But, apparently Vern and Company have now received revalation cancelling LCM’s Prevailing Word, and have returned to VPW’s original plan of The Word Over The Inhabited Earth?

Are any of LCM’s books still sold at the bookstore? Are any of his teachings currently being held forth by TWI? 

19 hours ago, frank123lol said:

The the way are telling people what to say now? More milk and cheese? 

Please explain?

I always liked bring at the ROA and especially enjoyed the music. Everyone was happy and got along well with one another, and there was always plenty of food and ice cream.
As far as I am concerned the beliefs of TWI are as valid as any other group. VPW, LCM, and others did abuse their positions and took advantage of members, but if these problems have been corrected, I see nothing wrong with folks attending the ROA or any other TWI function. 

5 hours ago, WordWolf said:

Accepting both your premise and your source, you're jumping to the conclusion that there are exactly 45,000 completely different, mutually-exclusive concepts of hell, exactly one for each denomination. Your source called them "denominations", as in variations on a theme, but you changed that to  "religions", which is more like the differences between Bahai, Islam, Hindu, Judaism, etc.  The same source pointed out that there are 3 major and 6 minor denominational branches of Christianity. 

Even if every one of those had a mutually-exclusive vision, that would be 9 positions, not 45,000- which is a significant difference.  That having been said, a quick look at what they teach shows that there's not 9 different, mutually-exclusive positions, because even a glance shows some of them have the same positions with cosmetic differences-  Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican to name 3.  Most of the other minor branches they mentioned agree with each other and with Protestantism.  Even if one can argue that those 2 are mutually-exclusive positions (I'm not going to weigh in on it either way), that's not 45,000 different religions, that's 2 denominational positions. The difference is rather pronounced. 

Your point well taken of me interchanging denominations and religions. Thank you.

The article states there are approximately 45,000 different denominations and I posted there are over 45,000. Let’s give or take a few thousand then. And you are correct many denominations have the sames rules for salvation. 
Let’s assume there are only a total of  9 major/minir denominations to chose from. How are you going to choice the one you want yo follow? What was your  process of eliminating the other eight? 
Then throw in Bahai, Islam, Hindu, Judaism - what is your thought process for not accepting/rejecting  them as the way to salvation?

RC - Confessnmortal sins to a priest.

How does one know, if something good happens in their life, that it was the result of another offering prayers for them? 
How do you know when you offer prayers for a neighbor that the prayer was actually answered? 
I used to offer perfect prayer, (SIT) for my family and those in my fellowship everyday, our countries leadership, and TWI leadership. They all got sick like anyone else in the world, two died in a car accident, and VPW somehow managed to get possessed my a devil spirit and died of cancer.
My prayer didn’t seem to make much difference at all.

On 6/23/2025 at 4:16 PM, oldiesman said:

Yes.   I know nothing about it and I think the Christian hell is enough to keep me concerned.

There are over 45,000 different Christian religions in the world, so if you accept that Christianity is the correct religion, how do you know you have picked the right version? How have you eliminated the other 44,999 as not being God’s accurate version of hell?

https://www.christianwebsite.com/how-many-denominations-of-christianity-2024/

3 hours ago, waysider said:

Or a Dogly person. It all depends on how you look at it.

Definitely a dog person…my pooch has never let me down and can always be counted on for her loyalty. 

I was thinking about what it takes to live a Godly life and realized one of God’s demands is for him to be worshipped by his subjects.

People also love to be worshipped by the fact of owning pets. Not only are they good company, but my dog loves to please  me, which also makes me feel good. If I say “down,” she jumps off the chair. When I say “out,” she heads for the outside door. 

And just like when God punishes me for not obeying him, when the dog does not jump down, I punish her for disobeying me. 
 

Apparently I really am a Godly person.

Apparently the RC church still needs cleaning up. After decades of promises to fix abuse, Pope Leo XIV says abuse needs to be uprooted.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/world/article/pope-leo-xiv-says-there-should-be-no-tolerance-20387519.php

Go Chicago Whitesox

For sure living this side of death to it fullest means not having to be concerned about a life after death. Just think how freeing it is, when you make a mistake in life and not have to worry about confessing it to an unseen god, and then also wonder what effect it will have when you finally see this unseen god face to face?

15 hours ago, Raf said:

What happens when you die v. Are these actions right or wrong.

Very different questions, and neither answer depends on the other.

Thanks

31 minutes ago, Stayed Too Long said:

g

 

When I was in TWI and prayed for someone to be healed, it never happened. I never saw a miracle result from anyone praying for healing. 

Sorry I don’t get the difference. My bad.

If we as humans have no eternal soul like the animals, assuming you agree with this, how about the following beliefs?

What about Euthanasia? If we with all love and kindness end our pets lives so they no longer suffer, what about letting mom or dad end their lives so they no longer suffer? How about if grandma has been living with a terminal disease that has wracked her body so badly that she no longer has a peaceful moment? Should she be required to suffer for an extended period of time even though she will not get better, only worse?

And concerning abortion should a family be required to to bring a human bring into the world that they do not want, for whatever reason? 

The root of why  Euthanasia and  abortion not allowed is because of religious beliefs. And as Raf pointed out, now that we have granted our pets eternal life, should we not outlaw Euthanasia and abortion of them on religious grounds also? 
 

So if there is no after life no has to be concerned about god punishing us for making dying a bit easier.

5 hours ago, oldiesman said:

I don't get that it's comforting but I think you are brave.   I can't imagine an eternity of nothingness, or even worse an eternity of torture.     Both scare the hell out of me.   

This is how I look at nothingness. Prior to being born I was absolutely nothing. And after I die I go back to that state of nothingness. I didn’t suffer prior to being born and will not suffer after my last breath.

There is nothing brave about accepting reality. If I truly believed in an after life you can bet I would being doing all the arrive there. Actually I did chase that belief for most of my life. I went down so many rabbit holes trying to be godly it wore me out.

Please answer me this. How do you know for a certainty your biblical belief is the correct one getting you into heaven? If your are a RC you get to heaven by being water baptized, attending mass on Sunday and holy days of obligation, confessing your sins to a priest, doing good works, and make certain you do not die with a mortal sin on your soul, because if you do you are assured of going to hell. 
A Baptist believes you are not saved by works, but by the grace of god. 
How do you reconcile these contradictory beliefs? 
Let’s assume you are a RC and die with no mortal sin on your soul. And when you stand before the judgement seat of god he says, “why haven’t you realized works will not get you into heaven?” 
Or what happens if god actually believes being a Muslim is the only way to heaven. Or what if god believes you must be a  Buddhist to enter the pearly gates? How about you must be a Hutterite or Menonite? 

It defies logic that of the thousand of religions in the world, you somehow, have come upon the correct one! 
Let’s say one representative of each of the religions of the world stood side by side and formed a line for miles. And when god appears,  he would tap you on the shoulder and say “you have got it right. Welcome to your group. All the rest have got it wrong.” Pretty crazy odds, no?

4 minutes ago, waysider said:

And for the non-believer, it's difficult to believe there is no karma. 

I have no problem believing there is no karma.

Moderation note: This conversation started on the "objective morality" thread and went off in its own direction. I LOVE the new topic but didn't want it to get lost in the old one. Raf/Modcat5

18 hours ago, Raf said:

You're not understanding me correctly.

You are equating "sin" with "wrong."

Sin is an offense against God, objectively. God says to do x, and you do Not x. 

No God = no sin, by definition.

It is a logical consequence of God's non-existence.

 

It it so difficult for folks who believe in God to accept that there is no spiritual punishment for any wrong actions.
They just can’t wait to send someone to hell or purgatory, for say, killing someone, adultery, rape, and any other wrong against a human. Believers who have been wronged by someone say, “You might get away with hurting me in this life, but justice will be served in the next, and you will suffer.”

If one believes there is no god, we understand a human being is just like any other life, and when we die our body rots and we are forgotten about after our 3rd generation.
No god is keeping track if we wronged our neighbor or family dog, which will result in spiritual consequences.
Nor if we spoke in tongues, helped a little old lady across the street, or sacrificed our life to save someone elses life, there are no spiritual rewards waiting for us to be claimed.
Our last breath is our last breath, and our existence ends never to be heard from again. 
Very comforting, for sure.

On 6/15/2025 at 4:36 AM, oldiesman said:

You are correct.  The catholic church doctrine won't change or change easily, but any one of us can go to the traditional mass and worship God and enjoy and cherish the experience in the process.   That's where I'm at right now.    They don't know that silent SIT is in play with one of their parishoners... 

I was born and raised as a Roman Catholic, and attended their schools. I bought into their belief’s and even thought of becoming a priest, in other words I was sold on their doctrine. UNTIL the Second Vatican Council in 1962. Prior to this no Catholic could eat meat on Friday, and if they did it was a mortal sin. A mortal sin would send you to hell if you did not confess the sin to a priest. 

So if a Catholic was to eat a bologna sandwich for lunch on any Friday, and on the way home they were killed in a motor vehicle accident, their soul would immediately be damned to hell for eternity.  Pretty severe for sure and not very comforting for their surviving Catholic family.

Then, the Second Vatican Council decreed that eating meat on Friday, except for Lent, was no longer a mortal sin. In other words, you can eat bacon and eggs for breakfast, a ham and cheese sandwich for lunch, and rib steak for dinner, and no longer commit a mortal sin.

How in the name of fairness and common sense, could a loving God cast his children into everlasting hell for eating meat on Friday prior to the Second Vatican Council, and not post Second Vatican Council? 

That opened my eyes to the ridiculousness of this teaching and started me on a very long journey realizing that trying to explain a loving God was also ridiculous. There are several thousand Christian religions that all disagree on how to obtain eternal life. Plus all the other world religions all have their way of salvation. If you can’t prove one is tight then all must be wrong.
 

Dave Allen…Irish comedian