Stayed Too Long

On 4/3/2023 at 5:15 AM, waysider said:

 René Girard has entered the chat.

 

 

 

"Man is the creature who does not know what to desire, and he turns to others in order to make up his mind. We desire what others desire because we imitate their desires.

2 Timothy 3:6&7

6They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 

Explanation according to https://www.bibleref.com/2-Timothy/3/2-Timothy-3-6.html

“These men are certainly targeting those who are vulnerable. The second half of this verse is constructed in Greek to show that the traits are about the same "weak women" Paul mentions. Such women are noted as having three concerns, two of which are listed in this verse. First, they were "burdened with sins." In other words, they had other sinful actions in their lives in addition to the problems brought upon them by false teachers. Second, these women were "led astray by various passions." These were likely not only referring to sexual passions, but to "various" areas of life in which weaknesses occurred.”

It is always, according to the article, gullible, horny women who possess evil desires. Do not turn to evil women and imitate them in order to make up your mind. There are many wholesome men to imitate for much better  results in your lives. 
 

I can’t image where these ideas came from…just another example of how crazy the bible can be at times. It is very difficult for me to understand which ideas in the bible to follow and which ones to throw out. How to you determine ideas to follow as Girard suggests?
 

I was bless patrol at some function in our city and the motor coach was parked in the parking lot taking up 4 or 5 parking spaces. I was given a roll of quarters and when a meter ran out of time, put a another quarter in. It was some time until VPW finished up. I thought I was so privileged because when VPW left the building and returned to the motor coach, I got to walk with him, holding an umbrella over him, to shield the sun light from the man of god. 

18 hours ago, oldiesman said:

Catholics believe in a concept called "the community of saints."       One example of this in operation is prayers for souls in purgatory for the purpose of releasing them --  it's said that God releases souls from purgatory into heaven this way.  Don't ask me if or how this happens, have no idea and am still somewhat of a sceptic although I do pray St. Gertrude's prayer anyway.   Regarding Jesus' return, does God respond to believers collectively praying for Christ's return?   Scripture says we don't know the time, but does it say that believers have nothing whatever to do with helping make it happen?   ("Thy Kingdom Come....")       Then there are the 'preterists' who believe it already happened!    

This would be a good topic for its own thread. You should consider starting it.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

This is one reference of the word faith in the bible and clearly states that whatever is hoped for is not in existence at the present time. Whoever wants something to happen  knows it is not now happening.

Is Jesus Christ coming back sometime in the future? There is no “evidence” or “proof” that it will happen, only the word of some writers in the bible.

One has to line up, roll up their sleeve, and be vaccinated, to believe Jesus is coming back (did he really ascend into heaven in the first place.)

https://www.britannica.com › dictionary › faith
 

As the definition states there is no proof of the belief, only blind adherence, hence the subject of this thread; Reason or logic does not have to be explained or expected.

X

On 3/4/2023 at 8:17 AM, Charity said:

Hi Twinky,

Question: What did you mean in your post?

There's no end to those willing to abuse - and to be abused.

Song about those who abuse and those who want to be abused
 

https://genius.com/Eurythmics-sweet-dreams-are-made-of-this-lyrics

15 hours ago, cman said:

?

The floor is yours. Please instruct me how to understand.

13 hours ago, cman said:

do you want to understand or are you convinced that there is no understanding, maybe there is some missing pieces....

Sure, if you can point out the errors in my logic please do so. Thanks

2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

This subject seems to be the plight we are very much experiencing today. Personal unhappiness and mental illnes are every where in our culture. And vast amounts of monies are directed at countering alcoholism, homelessness, and drug abuse, but they continue to grow.
Some new study is referenced to adopt this or that concept. Program after program is available to veterans to fight homelessness, but the vet continue to live in a tent. An Indian Reservation has outlawed alcohol sales, but the natives go off the reservation to get drunk. Drug addicts have resources available to overcome their addictions, but continue to be users.
Everytime a problem is identified the solution is to throw more money at it, but no real results are realized. The news contain story after story of those needing help, but no real solutions.

Answers seem to be available but those in need do not make themselves available to them, or the so called solutions do not perform  as anticipated.

I don’t think a belief in any particular god is the answer, but do find the above scripture intriguing.
What are your thoughts?

Many of the wars fought throughout history, and certainly those of the present time, are carried out in the name of religion. It really doesn’t matter what religion it, at some point they have murdered others in the name of their god. The death, destruction and pain inflicted upon their adversarial religions, are not the actions of those worshipping a loving god. 
One has to ask why did these so called  loving gods create an adversarial god, that would under all circumstances, oppose them? Supposedly it is because this creating god was so lonely for love, he made little creatures in his image. And these creatures would be put through tests to determine if they loved this god. If they failed the test, they would be turned over to the adversarial god for eternal destruction. Does not make sense from a logical point of view.

I wonder if John Lennon could really “Imagine” fulfilling all the points he sang about in that song? It is certainly difficult to see where he “had no possessions,” in his life. Lennon was one of those who lived by, do as I say, not as I do.

I just visited a relative who has been diagnosed with dementia. Not only is her mind being diminished, but her muscles are also. She must go to a physical therapist three times a week just to maintain the ability to move about. She asked, “why is God allowing this to happen to me?” In her next breath she said, “oh well, I guess He has a good reason putting me through this.” 

My immediate thought went to this thread and thinking, she has to have been vaccinated for the reason virus. 
How can a loving heavenly father allow his daughter to suffer like this? Absolutely no sane worldly father would even consider letting his daughter suffer like this, especially if they had the power to prevent it.

Remember God created the devil, who God blames for causing all the havoc in the world. From a logical point of view, no earthly father would setup an obstacle for their child to fail, especially one that the child has no control over.
Supposedly God was so in need of love, he decided to create people who would have the opportunity to love Him. But, this God who is in need of love, put conditions on those who would love him. But if the created people did not meet the conditions set forth by God, they will be punished. Why create people who God, in His for knowledge,  KNEW would not love him? Then, He must punish those who did not love Him by giving them over to the flawed Devil, whom He created? 
Alot of people who received a Covid shot, flu shot, etc,  also received the vaccine for the Reason Virus.

If a father acted like God he would be arrested and convicted a child abuse. 

The Texas Rangers beat the Airizona DiamondBacks 4 games to 1 to win the 2023 World Series.

Congratulations!

https://www.history.com/news/halloween-samhain-celts-catholic-church
 

3 hours ago, chockfull said:

It is very PT Barnum like.  The greatest show on earth.  There's a sucker born every minute.

All of us who sat through PFAL and stayed with VP and TWI for any length of time,  certainly were one of the suckers born every minute. It does take incite and strength to realize you have been taken in by a charlatan and escape.

If it is a secret how would we even know where to look for it? 
It is merely a term Victor came up that doesn’t deserve a minute of our time.

2 hours ago, Twinky said:

Isn't "churchianity" about who gets the glory?  And what the giver of the glory gets?

Some people spend practically their entire Sunday in church, attending every service.  Why?  Do they really need five services every Sunday?  Or is it to feel good?  Or be seen to be there?  Maybe those people also give out the hymn books or collect up something afterwards or put the chairs away.  Some people like to be chalice assistant, or to read the lesson from the Bible.  Why?  What's their motivation?  To be seen doing it?  Or because there's a need that they can fulfil, in part or whole?

Having grown up in the RC church and having attended parochial schools, I can say that the faithful who work tirelessly are doing it out of love for their religion. They believe their work is of benefit to God and other followers and believe God will bless them now and in the future in heaven. My mother worked for the local church and helped out where ever she could. Her belief in God got her through some very difficult times in her life.
I am sure there are some who do it to be seen, but for the most part, they love their religion. 
It isn’t unusual for people to spend hours doing things they believe in and enjoy doing. Fans of sports can spend all weekend in front of the TV cheering on their favorite teams. Quilters can spend hours a day putting together a new blanket. Hunters can spend an entire season looking for that special animal to mount on their wall.
 

4 hours ago, WordWolf said:

The problem there is that you're coming up with a completely new and DIFFERENT meaning for the term.

• 1852, Edwin Paxton Hood, Lamps of the temple: shadows from the lights of the modern pulpit, page 329:

  Such religion is Churchianity; it is not Christianity. Christianity means the religion where Christ is all; Churchianity, the religion where the Church is all.

   

  According to previous usages, "churchianity" isn't "every time there's a church".  That was what vpw pushed- he claimed you got a different denomination every single time people disagreed.   Edwin P. Hood was rather specific that there's good religious practices- and thus good churches-  and bad religious practices- and thus bad churches. He said those where "Christ is all" were good and those where "the Church is all" were bad.    If I went by what you said, "churchianity" would be synonymous with "churches" and there would be no need whatsoever for the word "churchianity."

Good point! Thank you.

A large number are God related books. Some people hate the freedom of religion clause in the first amendment. 

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/more-than-350-books-banned-in-florida-schools-since-last-july-16817328

Hebrews 10:17
Then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Going to the bible one can pull a verse to prove just about anything.
WW’s verse is quite damning and declares it would be better for a person to die than cause a little one to sin.

My two verses show a God that is very forgiving, and willing to forgive all indiscretions. 
 

I guess it all depends on how you might feel on any given day. Do you want to come down hard on someone, or is your plan to exercise discretion and treat the sinner gently?

You can choose A,B, or C, or all of the above. 

21 hours ago, WordWolf said:

It's also very easy to consider oneself a good person, and so on.  Even a demonstrably evil person rarely calls himself such- he spins rationalizations that everyone else is just as evil as he is, and so on, or that there are no such things as real good deeds, and so on.  By the time they're done, they've convinced themselves that the only proper thing to do is- whatever evil thing they'd set their heart to do in the first place. If one fills one's heart with lies, that's what one is going to believe and think.  The heart knows right from wrong- providing that's what the person has put in their heart.

You can certainly put VPW into this catagory, also. As far as being evil goes, folks who believe in God can be as evil as any unbeliever. RC priests have committed some of the most heinous sins and crimes against children. I’m sure they convinced themselves that the only proper thing to do is whatever evil thing they’d set in their heart to do in the first place. Is God going to consider them sheep or goats?

6 hours ago, WordWolf said:

The section I was thinking of at the time was Matthew 25: 31-46. 

Let me know if you need me to "enable the help files" on that.

If, as I suggested, that people should go about the world doing good works, they would be placed on God’s right hand, and counted as the sheep.  It appears to me, as an atheist, I’ll spend eternity with God…assuming that there is a God.
All my bases are covered….if there is a God I’ll be in His hip pocket. If there is no God, I’ll have made the world a better place, and will be thankful for my works benefiting someone. 

I will not your assistance to enable the help files.

Some believe in God, others are atheists or agnostics

https://apnews.com/article/nonreligious-united-states-nones-spirituality-humanist-91bb8430280c88fd88530a7ad64b03f8

12 hours ago, WordWolf said:

You might find it interesting to consider that the Bible says that Jesus recommended that for UNBELIEVERS.  (Not that helping others and doing good isn't recommended for believers, but I hardly think that qualifies as news by now.)

I searched google for God recommending doing good for the unbeliever, but found no results. Would you please provide a link? Thank you.

11 hours ago, WordWolf said:

"This is the fear Christians must deal with every thought. Not only must a Christian be aware of physical sins they have performed, but also must be aware their God keeps track of every nasty thought they think.

On an unrelated note, we all have to "deal with every thought"- or we should.  I like to do my own thinking, thank you, whether or not it matches a particular political party, organization, group, etc.  Everyone actually IS responsible for their own actions- responsible to their own selves and responsible to society and societies, whether or not there's anyone above that.   As for our thoughts, yes, we should take responsibility for our own thoughts, for good or bad.  Our actions are based on our thoughts. Sow a bad thought, reap a bad action.  Freedoms comes with responsibility- the freedom to think for yourself and act for yourself comes with the responsibility to think and act responsibly.

I agree we should evaluate our thoughts and take responsibility for them,  good or bad. That is how we grow mentally and ultimately in our actions.
However, I no longer give a second mention to see if the thought lines up with God, which for me is very freeing. I used to evaluate my thoughts with what God said, and it resulted in considerable condemnation.