Stayed Too Long

Amazing! I got my invite today and I am marked and avoid.
It is a mystery how they got my current address as I moved in here over 10 years after being kicked out of TWI?
Did they send my name to  remaining twiggers who knew me from the past to get my latest address? 
 

Quite simple. Very easy search. 

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/11/business/trump-gulf-of-america-google-maps-hnk-intl/index.html

Inserting “the way  international” into my search engine, Duckduckgo, the first six pages of results were all articles written by The Way. There we no listings by any distractors at all. 
The TWI IT department has certainly figured out how to use the internet to make themselves look good. 

“The times they are a changing.”

15 hours ago, Rocky said:

Perhaps you skipped the YT video. Hassan studied undue influence and has written about it.

That's the point of this discussion thread. Yeah, to make a sale, one has to find potential buyers. But the entire ministry of The Way International was about undue influence and high demand practices.

Many insurance salesfolks can put undue influence on say a recent widow also…. She may not really need a product, but play to their weakness and sell something to them. It also happens all the time on the internet ad someone sending their life’s savings to someone in India.

My point is cults aren’t the only ones being shady. As the proverbial saying goes, a sucker is born eveyday. Everyone has to be sharp and cognizant of their surroundings and going ons. 
To be honest, today the influnce of cults on our society, is minimal compared to all the other cons going on in the world.

On 12/19/2024 at 1:19 PM, Raf said:

Trying to remember if someone tried to turn me on to these videos some time ago.

This guy has been popping up on my Facebook feed A LOT as a scholar of the Bible and religion.

He comes from a Mormon background, which initially made me suspicious, but he seems to be refreshingly honest about his approach to the evidence he has.

Anyone have thoughts?

 

He has shown up on my FB feed too. The few times I’ve watched his videos he seems to be knowledgeable and honest, but I haven’t checked them out for accuracy. 

6 hours ago, penworks said:

Thanks for this, Rocky.

As for tactics TWI used in the past to find prospects. In the 1970s, one big time leader I won't name, told us to comb throught the obituaries to find the names of families who'd lost loved ones so we could approach them, offer "comfort," and try to sign them up for the PFAL class. I found that piece of advice so revolting I never did it. At least I had some good sense tucked in my mind somewhere back then ...

This is certainly nothing new and not limited to cults. Salesmen use the obits, wedding license notices, new home sales documents, etc. to contact prospective clients to sell them their products.
If a young couple applied for a marriage license they might be contacted about buying a life insurance policy or stocks to protect their future.

If someone purchased a new home a salesman would contact them about homeowners and car insurance. 
They could contact a recent widow about covering their cars mechanical and electrical systems as their husband handled all this prebiously.

You could say the sales person was contacting them at a vulnerable time, but if the widows  transmission went out next week, she would be thankful for the coverage.

It seems to me the Corps studied the book, “How To Win Friend and Influence People,” and adopted it’s principles to their goals of winning folks to the class.

Good ideas will always be used for bad outcomes. 

Some describe sin as missing the mark or coming up short. God certainly came up short when he created man in his image. If god is perfect, then his creation should also have been made perfect, right? But the answer is god is not perfect because he made all of his creations with sin capabilities. The angels he made sinned as evidenced by Lucifer and his band of devils rebelling and sinning.
Man also rebelled against his creator, and only because the creator gave him this imperfect ability. 
I can only surmise that god is not perfect because of the imperfections he allowed in his creation.

A better realization is there no god at all. Then thousands of religions don’t have to be made up by men, which all contradict each other, to explain how a loving god actually loves his sinful creation.
Somehow Man “A” decides what he believes, but Man  “B”, decides something different…and on and on. Thousands of different ways supposedly to get you to the same place. You can’t go North and expect to arrive at the same destination by traveling West.
Which is correct?

What is your reasoning for choosing the Islam religion over the Jewish religion? What makes Buddha so appealing over Jesus? I guess the best one can do is figure how they “feel in their heart” at the time. But what happens tomorrow when you “feel” different and chose a new path? Was the first belief a complete waste of time and cause you to loose rewards you can never recover?  That sure doesn’t sound fair does it?

Religion is so contrary to common sense. It just doesn’t make sense at all.
 

12 hours ago, Charity said:

You have to pay now to attend?  What's up with that?

Every ROA I attended required a fee.

The Los Angeles Dodgers won the 2024 World Series by defeating the New York Yankees 4 games to 1. Congratulations! 

3 hours ago, waysider said:

Survival goes to those most capable of adapting to change.

That is true in the long term, but day to day, the survival of the fitest rules. Man slaughters beef to eat, man hunts trophy animals to hang their heads on a wall to boast about, the lion kills the antelope, the eagle snatches the fish, large trees rob small trees of sunlight, and the list goes on.

In all levels of life on the earth, dying is required for life to carry on. Plants require previous growth to die and decay for new life to begin and flourish. Survival of the fittest rules the animal kingdom. The bigger and stronger animals must kill the smaller and weaker animals to carry on their existence. Man is the greatest preditor of all, that kill not only to survive but for pleasure also.  
This instinct to kill has apparently been built into all life forms by God their Creator in order to carry on their species. This concept seems quite cruel that one life must be murdered in order for another to carry on. God has the ability to send manna from heaven, because he did so in order to feed his people in the desert, why not send manna all the time for all of creation to live? 
If man did not have this built in need to kill, would all the senseless murdering done in the world, not exist? Would wars be unheard of in life?

Great atticle defining a cult 

https://findingmyway12.substack.com/p/waityou-grew-up-in-a-cult

1 hour ago, Raf said:

I did. I also let it stand and didn't move it or edit it or delete it or nothing. 
I also didn't extrapolate from it to make a point about all Christians without exception or all Christians within a certain category.

Some Christians? Certainly. Here's an example.

 

You didn’t have to extrapolate on it because no one furthered the conversation until i did.

A few posts up you said cman was babbing because of his posts. Apparently you decided this was irrelevant to the discussion. 

18 minutes ago, Raf said:

It is not typical of Christians. Most Christians I know do NOT engage in this method of discussion. 

Show me a topic where a Christian has declared they have no answer to what an atheist has said. They don’t. 

On 6/7/2024 at 5:12 PM, cman said:

depends on what you are looking to see

What I see is someone who is spewing psycho babble that refuses to be pinned down as to what is the meaning of his statement. This is so typical of Christians who hate to be challenged for their beliefs. They just cannot accept the fact someone would disagree with their beliefs and just  leave it at that. No..they keep ranting about stuff that is not at all relevant to the conversation. 


 

On 11/26/2023 at 7:48 PM, Rocky said:

What happens when society stops worshipping God?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Zuckerman 

https://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/phil-zuckerman/

Very interesting…..destroys the concept that a nation must believe in god for there to be peaceful coexistence in that country.

On 5/29/2024 at 9:07 AM, Charity said:

Thanks for starting this thread a decade ago of which I now find relevant to my life.  This post, however, is looking at the topic from the other side of the coin.  My children left their Christian upbringing in their teens and now as adults, two of them are atheists and one has no interest in God.  As a believing parent, I was concerned for them and over the years, I have prayed for them and made small attempts at changing their minds.  The thought of them being left behind, going through the Great Tribulation and not having eternal life was distressful to say the least.

Now that I am an atheist myself, that crazy way of worrying is no longer an issue for me.  I am happy to discuss evolution with them, and I'm sure they're relieved that I have stopped saying "I'll pray for you" whenever they're dealing with life problems.  We all see my deconversion as being "better late than never." 

I enjoyed reading most of the posts on this thread. 

Your journey to realizing there is no god sounds similar to mine in that it took a longer period of time and did not happen over night. 

As a boy and man I was totally sold on the concept of worshipping a loving god in the RC religion, and it was a very high priority. I attended daily mass two times each day, served as an alter boy, sang in the church choir, and volunteered my time at church events. 

After becoming disillusioned with the RC’s I quit going to church, but always wanted to please god in my mind. Then a fellow sat down next to me while eating lunch and convinced me his group knew the word of god like no other. God has audibly spoken to its founder and assured him god would teach him the bible like it had not been known since the first century. 
I was sold and bought into the whole idea by taking all the classes offered, gave what little money I had on a regular basis, and went WOW for two years.

Over the years, approximately 25, I did not see the signs, miracles, and wonders the group spoke of coming into fruition. I abundantly shared but my needs were not being met. But I dared not question any of this because others had and were severally chastised for doing so.

I quit the Way and slowly figured out all religions are the same. They all chase some invisible being, but each has its own rules for pleasing their god. Which one is correct? Christian, Jew, Alluh, etc etc. Flip a coin I guess and come to the conclusion none have any truth.

This realization there is no god did not happen over night, but after years  of disappointment and disillusionment. Now I lead the best life I know and am not concerned about pleasing some imaginary god.

I now , and also at that time, live in Montana.. VPW and a group of TWI motocycle enthusists were part of a caravan riding to the Calgary Stampede in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. When the group rolled in, our twig was expected “to be blessed” by providing them with a evening meal. Our twig of 6 or 7 was expected to feed several dozen bikers.

The caravan included VPW’s motor coach which he slept in, and also pulled a notorcycle trailer, so when he got tired of riding he could jump in the the coach to relax.

10 hours ago, RevRyan24 said:

I have been looking for teaching by BG Leonard and every time I Googled his name I ended up here. :)
I was not familiar with the Way, aside from hearing the name, prior.

I am really most interested in somehow accessing Rev. Leonard's teaching on the gifts of the Spirit, which is why I kept on ending up here.

Does anyone know anywhere on-line to access either the original Leonard or copied (?) teachings on the gifts of the Spirit?

Thanks, all!

https://ctcoftexas.com/about/

10 hours ago, RevRyan24 said:

I have been looking for teaching by BG Leonard and every time I Googled his name I ended up here. :)
I was not familiar with the Way, aside from hearing the name, prior.

I am really most interested in somehow accessing Rev. Leonard's teaching on the gifts of the Spirit, which is why I kept on ending up here.

Does anyone know anywhere on-line to access either the original Leonard or copied (?) teachings on the gifts of the Spirit?

Thanks, all!

https://ctcoftexas.com/about/

In my original post, the number 2 fact was the souls in purgatory can pray for those on earth, but not for themselves. It seems if God would reverse this, they would get their cleanding done much more quickly. But who knows why this stumbling block was placed on suffering individuals by a loving God? Maybe, as the song says, “farther long we’ll know all about it, farther along we’ll understand why?” 

2 hours ago, cman said:

isn't death cleansing anyway? fortunately, yes for everyone

there is a lot of terms in your questions that ask questions in itself, like hell, fire and all that "purgatory" seems to be

“There is a lot of terms” for sure in the RC religion, many that no other religions even acknowledge or know/care about. Take for example mortal sins…an act that will directly send you to hell, if you do not find a priest to forgive you, for your serious sin, before you die. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Curse God and you have a direct line to hell. Be a glutton and eat too much, and you will secure a place in eternal flames. Get drunk on a Friday night after work, and you have a confirmed reservation with the devil forever. 
 

Here is a list of actions the Roman Catholic’s claim will get you forever seperated from God:

https://www.holyannunciation.com/images/List_of_Grave_Sins_from_the_Catechism_of_the_Catholic_Church.pdf

Good luck staying in the graces of God!

https://www.beautysoancient.com/ten-ways-to-bring-relief-to-the-poor-souls-in-purgatory/
 

The RC’s have a concept known as purgatory, that when one dies they may not go directly to heaven.
Instead, they require soul cleansing and are rerouted to a place called purgatory. In purgatory they suffer greatly until God decides to release them and join him in heaven. In this transient state, poor souls not only suffer, but their release from the suffering, is dependent on prayers offered up by souls on earth. For a sum of money, a family member or friend can buy the release of their dearly beloved, by having a mass said for the release of their soul. If you don’t have the money to spare, and unable to afford a Catholic mass, the article points out other means available to secure their release.

Interesting to me is there is no way of knowing when your loved is released,  sent to heaven, and seated with God? If they are already in heaven, what happens with the prayers sent up to release them of their cleansing? Does God apply them to another deserving soul? Do they just go into the universe and frought for nothing? 
What happens if numerous masses are offered for a loved one and then you stop? When do you know when to stop because they are in heaven? What if they were only one mass short of deliverence and no more were offered? Is there a time limit on being banished to purgatory? What if the poor departed soul has absolutely no one on this planet to offering up a mass or prayers? How about all the non Catholics who have uttterly no idea purgatory exists, how will they make it too heaven, assuming of course, they have not been immediately cast into the eternal fires  of hell?