Stayed Too Long

A large number are God related books. Some people hate the freedom of religion clause in the first amendment. 

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/more-than-350-books-banned-in-florida-schools-since-last-july-16817328

The basic tenants of Christianity are: 
1. Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden so greviously it required a man to be born, tortured and crucified.

2. God impregnated an unsuspecting woman with His seed to bring about the man that would fulfill 1: above.

3. After the man in 2: above died he was raised from the dead by God.

4. Soon after being raised from the dead, the man in 3: above was ascended into heaven by God, but he promised he will return someday, and raise all his followers from the dead, and they too will ascend into heaven. 

Churchianity now comes into play. How and when the above 4 events occur is a question with hundreds of answers.
If you believe preacher A knows the how’s and when’s, you will be apart of church A. 

lf you believe preacher B knows the how’s and when’s, you will be apart of church B.

There is a preacher C thru preacher….….the list doesn’t end. 
 

Each preacher forms there own church, thus creating umpteen Churchianities. 

Hebrews 10:17
Then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Going to the bible one can pull a verse to prove just about anything.
WW’s verse is quite damning and declares it would be better for a person to die than cause a little one to sin.

My two verses show a God that is very forgiving, and willing to forgive all indiscretions. 
 

I guess it all depends on how you might feel on any given day. Do you want to come down hard on someone, or is your plan to exercise discretion and treat the sinner gently?

You can choose A,B, or C, or all of the above. 

21 hours ago, WordWolf said:

It's also very easy to consider oneself a good person, and so on.  Even a demonstrably evil person rarely calls himself such- he spins rationalizations that everyone else is just as evil as he is, and so on, or that there are no such things as real good deeds, and so on.  By the time they're done, they've convinced themselves that the only proper thing to do is- whatever evil thing they'd set their heart to do in the first place. If one fills one's heart with lies, that's what one is going to believe and think.  The heart knows right from wrong- providing that's what the person has put in their heart.

You can certainly put VPW into this catagory, also. As far as being evil goes, folks who believe in God can be as evil as any unbeliever. RC priests have committed some of the most heinous sins and crimes against children. I’m sure they convinced themselves that the only proper thing to do is whatever evil thing they’d set in their heart to do in the first place. Is God going to consider them sheep or goats?

6 hours ago, WordWolf said:

The section I was thinking of at the time was Matthew 25: 31-46. 

Let me know if you need me to "enable the help files" on that.

If, as I suggested, that people should go about the world doing good works, they would be placed on God’s right hand, and counted as the sheep.  It appears to me, as an atheist, I’ll spend eternity with God…assuming that there is a God.
All my bases are covered….if there is a God I’ll be in His hip pocket. If there is no God, I’ll have made the world a better place, and will be thankful for my works benefiting someone. 

I will not your assistance to enable the help files.

Some believe in God, others are atheists or agnostics

https://apnews.com/article/nonreligious-united-states-nones-spirituality-humanist-91bb8430280c88fd88530a7ad64b03f8

12 hours ago, WordWolf said:

You might find it interesting to consider that the Bible says that Jesus recommended that for UNBELIEVERS.  (Not that helping others and doing good isn't recommended for believers, but I hardly think that qualifies as news by now.)

I searched google for God recommending doing good for the unbeliever, but found no results. Would you please provide a link? Thank you.

11 hours ago, WordWolf said:

"This is the fear Christians must deal with every thought. Not only must a Christian be aware of physical sins they have performed, but also must be aware their God keeps track of every nasty thought they think.

On an unrelated note, we all have to "deal with every thought"- or we should.  I like to do my own thinking, thank you, whether or not it matches a particular political party, organization, group, etc.  Everyone actually IS responsible for their own actions- responsible to their own selves and responsible to society and societies, whether or not there's anyone above that.   As for our thoughts, yes, we should take responsibility for our own thoughts, for good or bad.  Our actions are based on our thoughts. Sow a bad thought, reap a bad action.  Freedoms comes with responsibility- the freedom to think for yourself and act for yourself comes with the responsibility to think and act responsibly.

I agree we should evaluate our thoughts and take responsibility for them,  good or bad. That is how we grow mentally and ultimately in our actions.
However, I no longer give a second mention to see if the thought lines up with God, which for me is very freeing. I used to evaluate my thoughts with what God said, and it resulted in considerable condemnation.

This is the fear Christians must deal with every thought. Not only must a Christian be aware of physical sins they have performed, but also must be aware their God keeps track of every nasty thought they think.
 

Lennon admitted his inspiration for Imagine was actually taken from poems Yoko Ono had written. He basically plagiarized some of her writings by not giving her credit for her work.
He also stated it was from the Communist Manifesto.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/articles/features/the_story_behind_imagine_by_john_lennon-83853

1 hour ago, WordWolf said:

That sounds good.  It's sometimes tricky to know for sure what goes on in insulated communities.  We hear that Amish communities are squeaky-clean and abhor technology.  From what I've heard, they avoid "the grid" but don't mind locally generating their own power and using power tools. Also, some of them are definitely not as squeaky-clean as they are meant to be (primarily during their time to consider the outside world instead.)

If these Hutterites take care of each other as a community, that's incredibly rare and a very nice thing. 

I don't mind IMAGINING people without barriers, but it's endemic to the human condition- people form societies and define them by who is "us" and who is "them."  Without eliminating that (which isn't possible for us), people will come up with things to kill and die for, some will remain greedy and so on.   There are people in society that don't need constant reminders to do the right thing, but most of them DO have the law there to remind them where the lines are in their culture/society.  Statistically few people will continue to do the right thing just because it's the right thing without the law defining the lines (5%, IIRC, 1 in 20.)

I don’t know if the Hutterites are squeaky-clean or even what that means. They definitely use electricity, use farm and ranch modern equipment, drive gasoline engine cars, drink booze, buy items from local stores, sell meat, produce, eggs, chickens to local residents and stores. They allow people to hunt on their property. 
I have no idea what goes on inside the colony. They pay property taxes and income taxes at the corporate level. They do no have an individual income tax. They do not draw unemployment or collect government subsidies such as welfare or snap. 

17 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

"Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for"

"Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world"

I've never been a fan of the song.     As a thought experiment, to "IMAGINE", it's not bad by itself.  When trying to make it happen, it doesn't even work on paper.   All previous attempts have failed drastically, all due to human nature. 

Communism is allegedly based on Karl Marx' ideology- his "philosophy"- and in this context, I consider it no different from any other DOGMA, any religion included.

SUPPOSEDLY, people would agree to work together- but every time someone tries to put these ideas into practice, they've failed miserably.  Part of that is that Karl Marx never articulated HOW to get there and how to MAINTAIN this society, and human nature runs at cross purposes with this.  Allow everyone to work on "the honor system" and there will always be those who try to cheat- who consider themselves above a "fair share".  Two countries have allegedly been large "communist" countries- China and Russia, and both countries CLAIM to be communist but are in reality both OLIGARCHIES, where a handful of people have seized all the money and all the power.

Humans will organize themselves into societies, and those societies will organize(eventually) into countries.  People do that. They also come up with things to kill over, even if it's just "more food" or "the best food" or "the best houses." And that increases as the societies increase- societies where nobody has ANYTHING seem to be the happiest and least jealous.  Add ANY resource into the mix, and the party is over.

Having no possessions has always appealed to the have-nots.  Societies that have allegedly agreed to that have a handful of people at the top who control all the possessions, and pay lip service to the party line.  People who actually have some possessions won't agree so loudly to the "we share everything" concept.   That's been mentioned over and over in different cultures.  In fact, different comedians have outlined why in terms of their own culture.   (My favorite was Paul Rodriguez. "Mexico CAN'T be Communist. I'd like to see a Bolshevik go down to el barrio, and explain to some guy named Little Frog, that now, under Communism, The State now owns his CHEVY.  'Let me get this straight, vato...you're saying ANYONE can drive my turbo?' *opens switchblade* I don't think so. Communist Manifesto this.' ")

 

No greed?  Seriously?  I think there's MORE greed where those claims are made.  There's certainly more hoarding and shortages- caused by greed and hoarding at the top.  Sharing all the world?   The first countries that really dismiss their military over that will probably be the first countries annexed overnight by greedier neighbors who don't want to "share."  

Hey-  in the Jesus People days, there were people who tried this.  They had to stop.  Many of the hippies were cooperative, but there's always someone who will ruin something nice for everyone.  Someone who doesn't want to work and wants a place to stay, free food, etc.  That was the undoing of some noble, well-intentioned home experiments.   For that matter, those welcoming people welcomed vpw, and that was an even bigger disaster. 

One doesn't have to look for RELIGIOUS reasons for people to be selfish, greedy, blood-thirsty, self-centered.... these are endemic to the human condition.  Josef Stalin wiped out his own farmers to steal their food.  The USSR had some amazing bloody pogroms. (For that matter, you don't have to look back in history all the way to Stalin, there's more recent examples

As a science fiction fan, I can IMAGINE magickal places and wonders of super-technology.  I can IMAGINE societies where this works. But these imaginings don't ring true, and even the fiction I read doesn't try to convince me of them.

I agree with you.
Some of the only groups that have successfully lived the lyrics are religious ones.  Around my area of the country there are Hutterites who live a communist lifestyle. They all live in the same cummunity, all have a job to perform, and all well taken care of physically. 
The Hutterites grow their own vegetable and fruit, and raise their own meat. They make money selling their products to the commubnity.

Lennon  believes what he is singing about and is attempting to get listeners to, at least, imagine what it would be like if they lived the lyrics.

One of the lyrics is, “Image no possessions. It’s easy if you try.”

John certainly did not live up to this standard, as  he had wealth and justified being wealthy. 
https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/john-lennon-felt-guilty-having-money.html/
 

My wife and I attended a tribute band to the Beatles called thefabfour.com.  One of the songs performed was John Lennon’s “Imagine.” The opening verse is:

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today

So many people love this song, including Christian friends of mine. Most likes it because it is about loving one another, no more killings, no more hunger, and it is a soothing song. 
However, when I mention that all this will happen when we no longer believe in God, they just shrug their shoulders, and let it go. No matter the lyrics, they just like the song. 
It just makes me chuckle.

1 hour ago, chockfull said:

I have no concerns to need to start a new thread.  I was answering a direct question.  Or maybe a rhetorical one depending on how it was presented 100%.  If that triggers you then maybe you should ask yourself why.

To to all posters.
 

This is the atheist forum and this particular thread is about raising children as atheists. Please do not go 

3 hours ago, chockfull said:

Because it would be a real response that could have personal insight in the subject matter.  The more authentic you are the more you are believable.  

Why I would care is that as an introvert I desire real connection and fake or inauthentic connection is irritating to me.

You are going with your comments. Please start a thread dealing with your concerns.

7 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Right. Not in exactly the same way. But Hellenized Jews and pagans would have recognized the implications and connections. Jesus did it better, so the story goes, effectively superseding Dionysus.

https://mythologymatters.wordpress.com/2020/02/24/the-mythology-of-wine-vii-the-wine-miracles-of-dionysus-and-jesus-compared/
 

From my point of view, as an athiest, all the mythical gods, and Alluh, Elohim, etc….., the names of which are endless, are a myth. They never existed, they do not exist now, and they will not exist in the future. 
Once you accept the fact that once you die, and you will go to the grave and decay like any other life on earth, you no longer have to be concerned about gaining or loosing rewards from an angry or loving God. Whew!!! Thank God. Lol. 

28 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Dionysus did it first.

I did a search on Dionydus, who was also known as Bacchus, and could not find any reference to him turning water into wine. Please provide a link. 
 

Children eventually come to the realization that it is impossible for Santa Clause to deliver presents to all the good boys and girls around the world in one night.

Children also realize after a few years, that it is impossible for a rabbit to color and deliver millions of hard boiled eggs to parks and yards around the globe, every Easter morning.

These same children also arrive at the conclusion, that the tooth fairy did not actually replace a rotting tooth, places under their pillow,  with a few dollars.

However, these same children, who have read in a book that a man made the waters of a sea part, continue to believe it, after no concrete evidence exists to prove it.

And, when the sea parted a bunch of nice people marched across it. Once all the good folks reached the other side of the ocean, God made the waters once again to come together, thus killing all the bad guys chasing  them.

Then once all the good people gathered together on the other side of the sea, this same God, made them wonder about the desert for 40 years becuase they ....ed Him off. Of course, He did however, miraculously supply them with food for their entire 40 years of wondering. God also made them invisible to their enemies for the entire 40 years. 

And when this loving God was about to deliver them from the desert after 40 years, He once again was ....ed off because the leader did something God did not like, so the leader had to die before allowing all the good people to enter the promised land. 
 

Also, who can find someone that will change water into the finest wine? Or turn bread into fishes to feed thousands on a hillside? Or pray for a lame person and make him walk? I did a Google search for people cured of aids through prayer, but came up empty. Why has God not acted to free people of aids? People will say He has through medicine, but why did He wait so long and allow thousands to suffer and die from this hideous disease?

The Myth of life is Genesis to Revelations is a Myth. 

 

Atheists make better parents because they do not have their children do things out of fear of being punished by a god. Only do things because it is the right thing to do.

https://www.indy100.com/news/atheists-make-better-parents-parenting-study-research-7627036

36 minutes ago, Rocky said:

I realize this is but I ask Stayed Too Long's indulgence.

More than a decade ago, I faced a hurricane of a storm in my life. My GSC posts at that time reflected the storm I was then immersed in.

I came out of the storm not the same person. I'm thankful for having gone through the storm and survived and grown as a person. 

The storm I was facing in life was not seeing all the promises of God in my life and those around me come true. I had no choice but to conclude all the promises I was taught from childhood to adulthood were fraudulent, and had to reject them. If you reject God all that is left is to be an atheist. Becoming an atheist was a very good choice for me.

Religious children are meaner than their secular counterparts, study finds

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/06/religious-children-less-altruistic-secular-kids-study

The study found religious children, especially older ones, are meaner than their seculure counterparts.
 

2 hours ago, Rocky said:

From Washington Post, today October 3, 2023: (all readers are able to read the rest of this WaPo essay for no charge because I subscribe by clicking the link)

I like to say that my kids made me an atheist. But really what they did was make me honest.

I was raised Jewish — with Sabbath prayers and religious school, a bat mitzvah and a Jewish wedding. But I don’t remember ever truly believing that God was out there listening to me sing songs of praise.

I thought of God as a human invention: a character, a concept, a carry-over from an ancient time.

I thought of him as a fiction.

Today I realize that means I’m an atheist. It’s not complicated. My (non)belief derives naturally from a few basic observations:

1. The Greek myths are obviously stories. The Norse myths are obviously stories. L. Ron Hubbard obviously made that stuff up. Extrapolate.
2. The holy books underpinning some of the bigger theistic religions are riddled with “facts” now disproved by science and “morality” now disavowed by modern adherents. Extrapolate.
3. Life is confusing and death is scary. Naturally, humans want to believe that someone capable is in charge and that we continue to live after we die. But wanting doesn’t make it so.
4. Child rape. War. Etc.

And yet, when I was younger, I would never have called myself an atheist — not on a survey, not to my family, not even to myself.

 

When I was a young man raised in the Catholic Church I so much wanted to please God. But the biggest thing the church taught me was condemnation. When ever I would have a sinful thought it would send me into a tail spin of condemnation, and as a young guy you can imagine the sinful thoughts I was having minute by minute, hour by hour, etc. I would pray and pray begging God to cleanse my mind. I even sheepishly went to my priest asking him what to do. He didn’t want to talk about sex, but said he would leave some church literature hidden  inside the confessional, for me to study. The promised readings never showed up. This really made be feel giulty that mymoriest forgot about me. 
So after high school graduation I dropped out of the church and never went back. 
Staying away from the church really left a hole in me spiritually for years,  and felt I was  hell bound, until one day a guy sat next to me in a cafe and started witnessing to me. He said if you believe Romans 10:9&10, you will go to heaven come hell or high water. Also God can work miracle through us….all we have to do is believe. I signed up for the PFAL class immediately and hurried through all the other classes so I could operate signs, miracle, and wonders. Even went WOW, WOW Ii, and signed up for the Way Corp. 

But along the way I didn’t see any signs, miracles, and wonders happening. Didn’t even see someone get over a cold by having hands laid on them. This really got started me doubting what TWI was all about and seriously wanting to leave. But by then they had their hooks in me saying if I leave all my rewards will be lost. Blah, blah, blah, you know the rest.

Thr reason I finally got out was gecause they marked and avoided me. 
So stumbling about again with God going to make me a grease spot by midnight, I felt terrible. Finding GSC was a life saver and got me at least on an even keel. 
Then seeing all the trouble my life had been in because of God, I began thinking what good had he done for me. Slowing I began reading articles about people who were happy not believing in God.
I have never been happier and more content since becoming an atheist.

My daughter was born and raised in TWI, and is currently a happy Catholic. But if I were raising her today I would steer her away from any religion or God.

5 hours ago, chockfull said:

Hey anybody that technically performs the act of gaslighting is gaslighting.  It sounds like you were triggered by hearing the definition of it.

What about the definition of gaslighting indicates I was triggered to control your life? Do you believe I have you under my control? Since posting on this thread have you lost the ability to think for your self. Do you question every thought you have? Do I have complete psychological control over you? If I do have control of your mind, I will cast the controlling spirit out of you in the powerful name of Jesus Christ.
There, now your mind should be free, and you are able to once again think your own thoughts. Praise God and let’s all speak in tongues and be slain in the spirit. 

I apologized for not finding the word “started.”
It seems you are grasping for straws. I have addressed your issues on your posts on this thread and you have not acknowleged them or asked for further clarification. My responses don’t seem to be of much interest to you.

Maybe you wanna blame your good buddy Merriam Webster.

What do I want to blame Merriam Webster for?
I looked up the word atheist and MW defined the word as people who do not believe in God. This definition would surely include any group of judgmentalist Christians whom you referenced.  I have acknowleged your example is an example of an atheist. What more can I do to assure you I completely believe fundamentals Christians believe atheists do not believe in God?