Stayed Too Long

Great to hear from you Cheri. What TWI was able to take from me, and which I have not been able to regain, is building relationships. I was convinced ANYONE not associated with TWI was unhealthy and to be avoided. This belief made me cut off all relationships with friends and family. At one point I even considered naming a couple in the way legal guardians of our daughter if we should die. Thankfully, I never carried it to that extent. 
Being associated with TWI was not my first go around at trying to make sense of God in my life. All failed miderably. Finally, I came to the conclusion there is no God, but He is only a creation by man like Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny. 

57 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

"Promises of fame and fortune" are like "eternal rewards at the bema" and "greater works than Jesus" and "standing believing believer in the Household of the remnant in the Family twice removed is better than you"?

Is this what we're doing?

You put it very well Bolshevik, much better than I have been able to. Thank you.

The biggest thing for me was the Grease Spot Before Midnight, but we all had to overcome some lie from TWI. I knew I would be M & A if I continued like I was going, but decided it was time to move on. At that point there was nothing that would hold me back and was willing to suffer any consequences. 

I can’t image what women having had sex with Wierwiile went through, but at some point they had to make the decision to leave, also. Many suffered much more psychologically than others, and it seems some are still living with the consequences of what they endured. 

At the point of sounding hard or unfelling for these  woman, no legal crime was committed against them, at least that I am aware of. If there were crimes please let me know.

Back to the subject of this thread. Some of the women may have been drugged and raped, but they did nothing about it, whether because of fear, didn’t believe anyone would believe them, or possibly many other concerns. But, they continued, many for years, to have sex with Hefner. Some even described how awful it was to have sex with a dirty old man, but they did continue to do so.

23 minutes ago, waysider said:

Do we really want to go there?

Please provide evidence that laws were broken. If laws were broken they were not followed up on by those affected or the authorities, that I am aware of. I was not there so please fill me in, if you will.

4 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

Unlike Hefner’s girlfriends, no mention was made to playmates they must sleep with Hefner. Until some were drugged and raped, they had no intention of screwing him. After they realized their dream of reaching fame was now also dependent having  sex with the boss, they continued doing so.
At this point you could say Hefner exerted a termendous amount of influence over them, that resulted in them sleeping with him.

Or, you could also say, these were grown women, who knew exactly what they were doing, and continued sleeping with Hefner, doing so to achieve their goal of fame.

Comparing these actions to Wierwille and Martindale, after having sex the first time with them, any Way woman who continued screwing them, could have packed their bags and left at anytime. The reason for staying  may have been because of undue influence, or they decided it was in their future’s best interest, to continue bedding down with them. 

Unless drugs or alcohol were involved, neither Hefner nor Wierwille broke any laws. No woman was underage or had a gun put to their head and told to hit the mattress.    

 

5 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

Hefner sold sex.  The bunnies sold sex.  If someone was confused about that they need a guardian.

 Yes, “Hefner sold sex. The bunnies sold sex,” but what does that have to do with sex on demand for Hefmer and his friends, from the bunnies? Would you expect a bartender must drink with his boss on demand? 
Hefner’s girlfriends new they would have sex with him, but the other girls did not. Often they were escorted to his bedroom, drugged, and raped. Surely you recognize a problem with such actions?
 

1 hour ago, Bolshevik said:

According to the LA times, the director didn't begin this work until 2020.  Hefner died in 2017.  So there's that.

Quite convenient the work begins 3 years after the subject is dead, when the director, and all the playmates from the 70’s and 80’s, had decades to put this together, but chose to wait until the subject could not defend himself. At the end of each show it is stated other playmates, and Hefner’s son, have denied this went on, but this takes up less than a minute of the 60 minute show. There is certainly no efforts to obtain both sides of the argument.

As far as Playboy’s business model making it a cult, it cidn’t. Cult leaders actions are legal and usually never prosecuted for any wrong doing. It is the way they manipulate the subjects to do their devious works. These young women on the program were assured they were on a road to great things. Just by posing in Playboy magazine, or working in a Playboy club, they were going to be at the top.

In the mean time, they were living at the Playboy mansion, and suddenly told the man who has the power to make them stars, now wants them to perform sexually with him. This was never told to them as requirement in the past,  but now presently, they are expected to screw the boss and his buddies. Many said they were drugged after presenting themselves in their master’s bedroom. Any if them could have left at anytime, but chose to stay, because they believed great things were around the corner. 

To my knowledge, neither Wierwille, Martindale, or any others of a multitude of cult leaders around the country, ever forced woman to have sex with them. But the women did, over and over, have sex with them. Why? They were living some false dream the cult leader convinced them was true, and they would do anything to maintain that false dream. 

3 hours ago, Rocky said:

It sounds like you're the one who is begging to ask that question.

Obviously, Rocky, I am asking the question. I didn’t think anyone would not believe the question came from me. What is your point?

My wife and I have been watching this weekly documentary for the past several months on A&E. It is from the perspective of prior playmates, who in their opinions, have been sexually abused by Hefner and his friends. The women site promises of fame and stardom from Playboy only to be tricked into the bedroom of Hefner, or sex in the grotto with male guests. When this happens, the playmates say they were caught completely off guard, but went ahead and had sex anyway so as not to lose their chances of fame and fortune. Many claimed to have been drugged against their will, but did not follow up with the authorities. Playmates stuck around for years staying loyal to the founder of Playboy and his buddies, even though they realized unwelcomed sex could happen at any time. 
A few were “girl friends” of Hef, who he had to sign legal documents dictating their every movement while his girlfriend. These women, who many felt  were fortunate, could not sign on the dotted line quickly enough. The documents demanded weight requirements of the girls, time limits coming and going from the Playboy mansion, and events they were required to attend. Hefner often had three “girlfriends” at a time, and the three were expected to get along in the bedroom, and must appear at Hefner’s side with broad smiles all the time in public. He even convinced twin sisters to be his “girlfriends” at the same time, but they claim to never have had sex with each other in Hefner’s bedroom. 
 

Hefner’s actions seem to be quite cultish. He has managed to create an environment of grandeur, which has been used to convince women to allow unwanted sexual acts performed on them, multiple time, for years. 

Other playmates have denied any unwanted sexual acts by anyone.
 

Playboy has been around for decades, which begs the question, why wait until Hefner is dead to bring forth these charges?

23 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:

Start reading the forums and you will learn more about The Way than you ever imagined. Also, enter  Donna Randall in the search box and you will see her named numerous times.

This is the obit for Donna’s husband, Gene.

https://www.mccolaughfuneralhome.com/obituary/eugene-randall

 

I passed along some inaccurate information in the above message concerning entering “Donna Randell” in the search box. The result is an abundance of responses to “Donna”, who is another person, not referring to Donna Randell. Entering “Randell” in the search box brings up nothing.

i hope you are finding success in your endeavor.

Start reading the forums and you will learn more about The Way than you ever imagined. Also, enter  Donna Randall in the search box and you will see her named numerous times.

This is the obit for Donna’s husband, Gene.

https://www.mccolaughfuneralhome.com/obituary/eugene-randall

Never fear. There are thousands of Christian religions and you can validate any belief you have from one or more of them.

It appears she is on FB….some of her friend’s last names are similar to Way folks.

I am not familiar with posting on Twitter, but found these incomplete tweets?

https://twitter.com/LCMARTINDALE/with_replies

4 hours ago, Twinky said:

 

4 hours ago, Twinky said:

Not so sure about that.  I think someone may be uploading some of his old teachings from quite a long time ago.  Other sources suggest one of his 1995 teachings was only uploaded in 2018.  Some look like series but there are only a few in the series.  Google search shows this: "23 Jun 2018 — The Way International 1995 Rock of Ages teaching from the Word of God, on how to Live Sanctified, by L. Craig Martindale."

What's a bit concerning is that, while most recordings are in mid double figures, some have had more than 150, nearly 200 audits.  Wonder if that's people who are interested in what he says, or nosey parkers (like patrons at the cafe) just trying to find out what he's up to?  But I'll leave that task to others at the cafe.  I heard quite enough of him when I was in rez.

Craig states the date at the beginning of the teaching and they are current as of this year.

https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A"L.+Craig+Martindale"&page=2

Having the power to save followers, or send them to hell, is a very powerful tool religion lords over its congregations. As a young boy being raised in, and schooled in the RC religion, hell was only one bad act away on my part from becoming reality. If I so much as ate a piece of meat on Friday, and died before confessing the horrible sin to some guy in a black robe, my soul was condemned to hell for all eternity. Then, some guy in the 1960’s, located in Rome wearing a pointed hat, suddenly declares I can enjoy a meal of steak, hamburger, pork roast, or lamb chops on any and all Fridays. And my soul will no longer suffer  in hell, but be heaven bound to forever life with all the saints, my parents, Mary, God the Father, Jesus the Son, and some guy called the Holy Ghost. At death, life would be so great as I passed through the pearly gates, shaking hands with Peter, and waving as I walked by the heavenly band of harps, welcoming me home. I had finally arrived for the reward of living a life sanctioned by the Popes who had murdered thousands for disregarding their beliefs. 

Suddenly, I was startled into reality because my Father, a favorite uncle, a long lost cousin, and best friend, were missing. I inquired  of the angel, that had been assigned to make my entry into heaven comfortable, why they were not present to greet me? Looking sheepishly, he held up an old Big Mac wrapper.

My father and uncle had gone out for beers at the end of the week on Friday, and It was prior to being allowed to eat meat on Friday. After the drinks, they stopped by a McDonalds, forgot the meat restriction, and ordered a Big Mac meal. Driving home they realized their error and promised each other to go to confession tomorrow. But as they were crossing a railroad track, a train hit them, and they died immediately. The angel said he could see their souls descend into hell immediately.

I then asked about my cousin and best friend, knowing full well they would never eat a Big Mac sandwich on Friday. The angel acknowledged they had not knowingly eaten any meat, but had ordered a McFish sandwich with large fries. Unfortunately, the fries and fish were deep fried,  not in vegetable oil, but meat lard. The angel said he wept as their souls slowly slipped into eternal fire and punishment.

Forward to 2022, and that guy with the pointed hat living in Rome, once again declares that, because a mistake of one word was made,all baptisms are declared invalid. A letter is being sent to all affected, telling them they must get rebaptized so they don’t burn forever in hell upon dying. I guess that is good for those on the current mailing list, but what about all who didn’t leave a forwarding address? In a few years, upon expiring, they will be jolted into reality as they  experience the heat of Satan surronding them. As they attempt to claw their way up as they slide down to everlasting damnation, they demand to understand what they did wrong for God to throw them overboard, into the lake of fire? God says to then, “you did absolutely nothing wrong, but one word you knew nothing about, made you unholy, and I could not tolerate you. Get out of my presence and adios sucker.”

You cannot make this stuff up, it is just so crazy.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/baptisms-performed-phoenix-priest-invalid-142102295.html

JC.pdf

I was in such a deep mental rut when a WOW sat next to me in a cafe, as I sat  eating lunch at the counter. He was very friendly, something I needed at that time in my misery. I don’t recall much of our conversation, but he made such an impression that I wanted to come to his home and learn more about God. I was attending college and winter break was just beginning, so I told him I was going home, but to contact me when Spring quarter began. To my surprise, he got ahold of me when he said he would. That in itself made a positive imoression on me.

i was raised a Catholic and attended parochial schools, which taught me what a horrible person I was. I hated that feeling and my high school graduation was the last time I attended any Catholic services, other than weedings, etc. However, the effect of what a horrible person I was lingered on with me. Being absolutely comvinced I was going to hell, my mental state was in disarray. This WOW convinced me I would not go to hell becuse of Romans 10:9-10. That set me free in so many ways—A new life was upon me.

As a result I went WOW two years in a row, and couldn’t wait for God to work miracle because of me holding forth the word. Excitement turned into ftustration, becsuse instead of seeing any miracles, daily life became quite  boring. No miracles, just day to day humdrums; study, work, witness (not much of that though), fellowship.    

After 20 or so years, I finally I left the Way, but still  tried to make sense of religion.  The harder I tried to see how  religion was of any benefit to me, the more it made no sense. Finally able  to cast the idea there is some God  who us watching over me and only desires the best, I was able to find peace. Realizing I am no more, or less, than anything else in this world, I can follow the path of a human being, and contribute what I can to this planet and universe.
 

i use of my ipad, iphone for phone, email, msg, a few social aps, and that is it. Could probably get by with a much older ios, but keep it updated for secutity reasons. 

i have always wondered why I caused the death of Christ over 2,000 years ago? 
 

https://www.skeptical-science.com/religion/irish-comedian-dave-allen-shares-thoughts-religion/

Thank you for the assistance. On my screen it shows the Noir image and below that  a blank image the same size as Noir. It appears on other’s screens only the printed one is visible.

Anyone know how to delete the blank jpeg image that is above?

I love Harris noting all evolution involves death….those that are not strong are destined to die. Thrown aside with no second thought. The conquerors do not look back and feel sorry for those they have crushed. 
That is how we must look at change in our personal lives;  our past beliefs must die if we are to realize change. As in real life, death of an old idea is very hard to overcome. Past beliefs do not want to go away without a fight. They will hang on in the back of our minds until we make the decision to crush them. Then our transformation is complete, and we can move ahead and challenge our next evolution. 
Change is difficult, but important to our growth. 
 

On 11/18/2021 at 12:26 PM, Raf said:

That is a powerful analogy, STL. An instruction book that needs instruction books to interpret its instructions isn't much of an instruction book at all, is it?

I would only answer that the "Word of God" is the instruction manual, that it is not complicated, and that it is not the Bible.

If I were a believer, that is.

When writing about the bible, and bringing supporting data to, at least, indicate it could be inaccurate, the beliver will scramble to plug the holes. They will expound on how much reading they have done, how open they are to new ideas, and then deny the ascertation exists.