I Corinthians 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they [do it] to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
I Thessalonians 2:19 For what [is] our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? [Are] not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
II Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
James 1:12 Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
I Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
These are the verses that they used. the way that it was taught was that there were five separate and distinct "crowns" that were given as rewards for "works".
Like you, I was never really interested in seeking crowns. However I did know a few folks in TWI that seemed pretty concerned about them.
It seemed to me some folks did things for the purpose of receiving a crown or reward and not necessarily from the heart or to please God. In other words, the motive was purely selfish.
It's kinda like giving money to the church. -- Some may give, not because it could bless others in need, or further the Gospel, but rather for the sole purpose of receiving something back. (Giving = receiving).
I guess what I am saying is that the idea of crowns is in fact "biblical". However it may not have been applied biblically by some folks.
... Well, now I feel ripped off...geeze, why didnt they teach us more about the Crowns??
I heard and taught this topic often.
Often beginning with Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
And then 1 Corinthans 3
7: So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8: Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9: For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10: According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
...
14: If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
Then a crown incorruptible, 1 Cor 9:25 [ a crown to last forever, for striving for the mastery]
Then a crown of rejoicing, 1 Thess 2:19 [ a crown for raising up babes in the Word]
Then a crown of righteousness, 2 Tim 4:8 [ a crown for keeping the 'faith' ]
Then a crown of life, Ja 1:12 [ a crown for remembering that it is not God who temps us, as we endure tempations ]
Then a crown of glory, 1 Pe 5:4 [ a crown for being a tupos to the flock ]
and lastly Revelation 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Galen...are those definitions you listed after the verses honestly what the scritures say or are they just the definition that twi gave?
Seems like twi definition is a stretch from what is actually written.
The first listed....I looked up (it is all I have time for) ...and funny enough
The context is talking about being temperate in all things keeping the body in subjegation....lest when I preach to others, I myself should be cast away...
Anyway...you have me curious enough to crack the bible open ...and see how this is a crown of *incorruptible*
Galen...are those definitions you listed after the verses honestly what the scritures say or are they just the definition that twi gave?
Seems like twi definition is a stretch from what is actually written.
The first listed....I looked up (it is all I have time for) ...and funny enough
The context is talking about being temperate in all things keeping the body in subjegation....lest when I preach to others, I myself should be cast away...
Anyway...you have me curious enough to crack the bible open ...and see how this is a crown of *incorruptible*
It is called "incorruptible" because in the KJV that is the phrase that the translators used.
And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
That's right Galen...ABSOLUTELY NOTHING taught by VP et al twi was CORRECT. You've been here long enough to know that by now, shame on you !!
And neither is it correct just because the great VPW taught it. You castigate those who
look beyond or question what Mr. Wierweille taught and erroneously conclude that many folks here say "Nothing" he taught was correct. --- Yet YOU Alan seem to accept what he taught blindly and without question or investigation. -- Which is the wiser? -- Blind acceptance or questioning and investigation?
Take the Incorruptable Crown for example. According to Galen's notes it is:
"a crown to last forever,
for striving for the mastery
"
Striving for the mastery of what? This is vague...
I could be wrong, but my guess is that this came straight from something VPW taught and not from any real study of 1 Cor 9:24-27
Actual study of 1Cor 9:24-27 will show that it much more about HOW one "strives" than the striving itself.
1Cr 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Cr 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they [do it] to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Cr 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Cr 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means,
when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
"Striveth for mastery" is from one Greek word, agonizomai which means:
1)
to enter a contest: contend in the gymnastic games
2)
to contend with adversaries, fight
3)
metaph. to contend, struggle, with difficulties and dangers
4)
to endeavour with strenuous zeal, strive: to obtain something (Strong's)
This word has nothing to do with "mastering" something in the modern English sense. It is more about entering and competing in a contest with the hope of winning a prize at the end. My guess is that we get the English word agonize from this Greek word.
"Temperant" in 1Cor 9:25 is from the Greek "egkrateuomai"
1) to be self-controlled, continent
a) to exhibit self-government, conduct, one's self temperately
b) in a figure drawn from athletes, who in preparing themselves for the games abstained from unwholesome food, wine, and sexual indulgence ( Strong's)
"Striveth for the mastery" in the KJV is a poor translation. The ASV reads "And every man that striveth in the games exerciseth self-control in all things." The NIV reads, "Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training." .
Receiving the incorruptable crown is not simply about "striving for mastery"... It is about HOW the race trained for and HOW the race is run. It is about self-dicipline, self-denial, and temperance.
I recall the "crowns" being taught as Galen outlined, but in looking at the verses, it seems to be a stretch to make the verse fit with what was taught. It also doesn't seem to me that the "crowns" were limited to five, nor to the reasons derived from the verses refered to. However, there does seem to be a kind of rewatd or recognition called figuratively a "crown", or "garland".
In reference to the crowns it is interesting to read Revelation 4:10,11 the twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and will worship Him who lives forever and ever, and will cast their crowns before the throne, saying, "Worthy art Thou, our Lord and our God, To receive glory and honor and power; For Thou didst create all things, And because of Thy will they existed, and were created." [New American Standard Version]
John MacArthurin The MacArthur New Testament Commentary: Revelation 1-11 speaking on these verses says, "Amazingly, after prostrating themselves the twenty-four elders cast their crowns before the throne. They are not preoccupied with their own excellence. They are not concerned about their own holiness, honor, or reward. All those things pale into insignificance and become meaningless in light of the glory of God…Axios [worthy] was used of the Roman emperor when he marched in a triumphal procession. The focus of the elders' song is on God's glory manifested in creation…Their song anticipates paradise lost becoming paradise regained."
In a slightly different vein, Hugh Ross in Beyond the Cosmos makes some suggestions about life and rewards in the New Creation: God will place our spirits in indestructible bodies fit for existence in dimensions beyond earth's four, no longer bound by the laws and limits of earthly existence. In regards to rewards commensurate with each person's work done on earth – what if God did something to dramatically increase our capacity to receive and enjoy His blessings – something internal to each of us – there would be no way for any of us to compare what others have received or become an occasion for envy or disappointment.
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Oakspear
I Corinthians 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they [do it] to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
I Thessalonians 2:19 For what [is] our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? [Are] not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
II Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
James 1:12 Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
I Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
These are the verses that they used. the way that it was taught was that there were five separate and distinct "crowns" that were given as rewards for "works".
Striving for the mastery
Endure persecution
"Love his appearing"
Endure temptation
Overseeing God's people
etc.
I'm sure there was more
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Goey
Hi Eagle,
The idea of crowns and rewards is biblical and is not unique to TWI. Below is a link that attempts to explain the 5 Crowns.
5 Crowns
Like you, I was never really interested in seeking crowns. However I did know a few folks in TWI that seemed pretty concerned about them.
It seemed to me some folks did things for the purpose of receiving a crown or reward and not necessarily from the heart or to please God. In other words, the motive was purely selfish.
It's kinda like giving money to the church. -- Some may give, not because it could bless others in need, or further the Gospel, but rather for the sole purpose of receiving something back. (Giving = receiving).
I guess what I am saying is that the idea of crowns is in fact "biblical". However it may not have been applied biblically by some folks.
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likeaneagle
Oakspear- Thank you for the scripture references. I will read those in time.
Goey- ....My mindset was, do what I can do this day, especialy in the mid 90's and on...I had no time for rewards..
Well, now I feel ripped off...geeze, why didnt they teach us more about the Crowns??
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sogwap51
I'll get a floppy hat :) ....maybe it will fit :) or maybe not :(
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Galen
Often beginning with Matthew 16:27
And then 1 Corinthans 3
Then a crown incorruptible, 1 Cor 9:25 [ a crown to last forever, for striving for the mastery]Then a crown of rejoicing, 1 Thess 2:19 [ a crown for raising up babes in the Word]
Then a crown of righteousness, 2 Tim 4:8 [ a crown for keeping the 'faith' ]
Then a crown of life, Ja 1:12 [ a crown for remembering that it is not God who temps us, as we endure tempations ]
Then a crown of glory, 1 Pe 5:4 [ a crown for being a tupos to the flock ]
and lastly Revelation 2:10
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rascal
Galen...are those definitions you listed after the verses honestly what the scritures say or are they just the definition that twi gave?
Seems like twi definition is a stretch from what is actually written.
The first listed....I looked up (it is all I have time for) ...and funny enough
The context is talking about being temperate in all things keeping the body in subjegation....lest when I preach to others, I myself should be cast away...
Anyway...you have me curious enough to crack the bible open ...and see how this is a crown of *incorruptible*
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allan w.
That's right Galen...ABSOLUTELY NOTHING taught by VP et al twi was CORRECT. You've been here long enough to know that by now, shame on you !!
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rascal
Allen it would be very foolish to trust a lying plagarizing drunken rapist `s opinion on any subject without carefull examination
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Galen
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rascal
I don`t know...I looked up these verses and it didn`t seem like the defininition/sumations matched...
I mean striving for mastery... those verses were actually talking about mastering temptation...
and the verse james... rejoicing was about seeing others when christ returned...james was speaking about those enduring temptation and love God....
the one in peter talked about those whom fed the flock and were ensamples.....not doing it for filthy lucre ....
It would appear that there are going to be some big suprises one day when peoples expectations don`t match up with reality on that day.
Thank you Galen I reworded my post so that it didn`t seem like I was jumping you personally, but the source of the definitions...
Thank you for your patient answere...as in spite of the impression given....I was genuinely interested.
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Goey
And neither is it correct just because the great VPW taught it. You castigate those who
look beyond or question what Mr. Wierweille taught and erroneously conclude that many folks here say "Nothing" he taught was correct. --- Yet YOU Alan seem to accept what he taught blindly and without question or investigation. -- Which is the wiser? -- Blind acceptance or questioning and investigation?
Take the Incorruptable Crown for example. According to Galen's notes it is:
Striving for the mastery of what? This is vague...
I could be wrong, but my guess is that this came straight from something VPW taught and not from any real study of 1 Cor 9:24-27
Actual study of 1Cor 9:24-27 will show that it much more about HOW one "strives" than the striving itself.
"Striveth for mastery" is from one Greek word, agonizomai which means:
This word has nothing to do with "mastering" something in the modern English sense. It is more about entering and competing in a contest with the hope of winning a prize at the end. My guess is that we get the English word agonize from this Greek word.
"Temperant" in 1Cor 9:25 is from the Greek "egkrateuomai"
1) to be self-controlled, continent
a) to exhibit self-government, conduct, one's self temperately
b) in a figure drawn from athletes, who in preparing themselves for the games abstained from unwholesome food, wine, and sexual indulgence ( Strong's)
"Striveth for the mastery" in the KJV is a poor translation. The ASV reads "And every man that striveth in the games exerciseth self-control in all things." The NIV reads, "Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training." .
Receiving the incorruptable crown is not simply about "striving for mastery"... It is about HOW the race trained for and HOW the race is run. It is about self-dicipline, self-denial, and temperance.
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Galen
True.
Very good point. Compressing any detailed thought down into a two or three word summary, we always lose tons of detail.
:)
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Oakspear
I recall the "crowns" being taught as Galen outlined, but in looking at the verses, it seems to be a stretch to make the verse fit with what was taught. It also doesn't seem to me that the "crowns" were limited to five, nor to the reasons derived from the verses refered to. However, there does seem to be a kind of rewatd or recognition called figuratively a "crown", or "garland".
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ChasUFarley
The only Crown I'm interested in....
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T-Bone
In reference to the crowns it is interesting to read Revelation 4:10,11 the twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and will worship Him who lives forever and ever, and will cast their crowns before the throne, saying, "Worthy art Thou, our Lord and our God, To receive glory and honor and power; For Thou didst create all things, And because of Thy will they existed, and were created." [New American Standard Version]
John MacArthur in The MacArthur New Testament Commentary: Revelation 1-11 speaking on these verses says, "Amazingly, after prostrating themselves the twenty-four elders cast their crowns before the throne. They are not preoccupied with their own excellence. They are not concerned about their own holiness, honor, or reward. All those things pale into insignificance and become meaningless in light of the glory of God…Axios [worthy] was used of the Roman emperor when he marched in a triumphal procession. The focus of the elders' song is on God's glory manifested in creation…Their song anticipates paradise lost becoming paradise regained."
In a slightly different vein, Hugh Ross in Beyond the Cosmos makes some suggestions about life and rewards in the New Creation: God will place our spirits in indestructible bodies fit for existence in dimensions beyond earth's four, no longer bound by the laws and limits of earthly existence. In regards to rewards commensurate with each person's work done on earth – what if God did something to dramatically increase our capacity to receive and enjoy His blessings – something internal to each of us – there would be no way for any of us to compare what others have received or become an occasion for envy or disappointment.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
inside the front cover of my old companion bible i have a sticker that lists the crowns
they used to sell it at the bookstore
anyone else remember that?
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
for that matter you could probably buy crowns too!!
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