satori... Costco has the seasons boxes... this it the third and final year for it (they'll do two more two hour movies to wrap it up)... if you find it entertaining now, go back to the beginning... it's pretty accurate historically and the characters you're seeing now, while enjoyable, will have a lot more depth...
Let's see...I've forgotten some of the actors/characters' names, but here's enough to get you started.
Al Swearingen (Ian McShane) - Owner of the Gem saloon, Swearingen was the cunning but brutal power lord of Deadwood at the beginning of the series. Competition soon moved in, however, from the likes of Cy Tolliver (Powers Boothe), owner of the rival Bella Union saloon/brothel, and newcomer George Hearst (Gerald McRaney).
Sheriff Bullock (Timothy Olyphant) - Ex-lawman who moved to Deadwood to get away from law enforcement. (Didn't last long.) At odds with Swearingen from day one, but now forced into an uneasy alliance with him against the incursions of mining millionaire George Hearst. Married his brother's wife after his brother died, but the relationship is cool and formal at best. Partner in a hardware concern with Sol Starr. Had (having?) an affair with the widow Alma Garrett, who is now pregnant with his child. Somber, taciturn, and explosively violent at times.
Alma Garrett - She and her husband moved to Deadwood in the first episode and bought a gold claim from Swearingen, who had his men salt the property with gold to drive up the purchase price, intending to buy it back from Garrett at a reduced price when the claim turned out to be worthless. Instead, an untapped gold vein is found on the property, prompting Swearingen to arrange a fatal accident for Garrett. Under advice from Bullock, Alma refuses to sell the claim back and remains in Deadwood, now the richest woman in the town. Bullock's advice turns into an affair. Assumed guardianship of a small girl found near the site of a massacre in episode 1.
E. B. Farnum (William Sanderson) - the weaselly owner of the original hotel in town, and puppet mayor under Swearingen. Always out for a buck.
Sol Starr - Bullock's partner in the hardware store, now officer of the town bank, usually derided because he's Jewish, shacked up with Trixie, Swearingen's (ex?-) prostitue madam.
Calamity Jane - The drunken scout of legend, no real fan of Swearingen, friend to Wild Bill Hickok (killed in season 1).
Charlie Utter - Deputy sheriff under Bullock, and closest thing to a friend Jane now has. Bullock, Utter, and Jane are the closest thing to "law" Deadwood might have, but one would be hard pressed to see it without a microscope.
The Doctor (Brad Dourif) - Probably the most sane person in Deadwood, but the competition isn't that great.
Zixar, you know alot about this series. I do not. However, I do personally know "Joey". He is from W. Memphis, AR, where hubby and I owned our small business. His nickname is Skip, aka Skipper. His given name is Everette.
I have a gorgeous picture of him somewhere taken at the Hard Rock Cafe in Memphis, when our friend Bill Haney had a CD release party. What fun we had.
I have never seen Deadwood, but will probably rent the series so I can see Skip.
Skip's mom and my hubby sold real estate for the same company for a short while, and we installed mirrors and shower enclosures for his step-dad. Great family. In fact, I bought a new home from his step-dad, which is how I first met the family. Now you know more than you ever wanted to know about "Joey" and me, for that matter!!!!!!
The language on this series had gotten so foul I quit watching it over a year ago. Gawd, it was awful. Maybe they've cleaned it up a bit now but I had watched it from the very first episode.
Zixar, you know alot about this series. I do not. However, I do personally know "Joey". He is from W. Memphis, AR, where hubby and I owned our small business. His nickname is Skip, aka Skipper. His given name is Everette.
I have a gorgeous picture of him somewhere taken at the Hard Rock Cafe in Memphis, when our friend Bill Haney had a CD release party. What fun we had.
I have never seen Deadwood, but will probably rent the series so I can see Skip.
Skip's mom and my hubby sold real estate for the same company for a short while, and we installed mirrors and shower enclosures for his step-dad. Great family. In fact, I bought a new home from his step-dad, which is how I first met the family. Now you know more than you ever wanted to know about "Joey" and me, for that matter!!!!!!
There's the language, and there's the language. I probably wouldn't be comfortable watching Deadwood with anyone but a few choice friends, who would share the appreciation for the writing and casting, the story and the general mayhem, and not take offense at the show's prevailing word (which would be the "F" word).
The dialogue is poetry and profanity, a ....-load of shanty Shakespeare. I find myself really enjoying it, so far, but I can see why you could tire of it.
Good summary Zixar. Puts the one episode I've seen into some historical context.
The language on this series had gotten so foul I quit watching it over a year ago. Gawd, it was awful. Maybe they've cleaned it up a bit now but I had watched it from the very first episode.
While the series has very crude language, the creators insist that the real Deadwood probably had worse. Apparently the legends of the Old West were heavily sanitized for public consumption.
The series has dealt with some ugly issues, but with the top-notch acting by the ensemble, Deadwood has become one of the best series HBO ever produced. (Personally, I rank it third behind The Sopranos and From The Earth To The Moon, both of which others I highly recommend.)
Ian McShane has really given a masterful performance as Swearingen. He could have made him such a one-dimensional, cookie-cutter bad guy, but McShane has turned him into an amoral, Machiavellian force. However, even malevolent dictators have their problems...
It's worth watching from the beginning. Both previous seasons are available for rent from Blockbuster and NetFlix.
Re:"While the series has very crude language, the creators insist that the real Deadwood probably had worse. Apparently the legends of the Old West were heavily sanitized for public consumption."
That's what I was led to believe, as well, so I tried to "get into" a historical frame of mind. But then I read an article by a noted linguist that said that the language actually used then wasn't of the variety portrayed in the series. That the main way of cursing was sacrilegious in nature.. not sexual. Lots of GD's, references to Hell and the like. Actually, it would be considered quite tame by our standards.
So after reading that article, I realized all the vile language on Deadwood was just gratuitous and the good acting wasn't enough to keep me watching. It's the not 'F' word so much as it is the vile references to women by crude names for their genitals. Its disgusting.
Ya know, I watched a few episodes a year ago when living with some friends for a couple of months when working in the Alaskan Bush. And they were totally hooked on it. I found it highly entertaining, but the foul language bothered me. Not that it was foul (although it is particularly foul), but it just seemed so "out of period", and therefore kind of "fake". To me it was like watching a movie about the Old West and hearing the characters say things like; "Wow, that wasn't very user friendly", or, "Man Oh Man! I am roflmao and pimp!" It just didn't seem to fit. And so, being fair, I had to ask myself; Did they actually talk that way but I just didn't know it? And if so, I'm down with it. But if not, it seems way goofy to be watching that and allowing my mind to take on a wrong view of the Old West, which I have always loved to read about so much.
And thank you for your post Sudo, that kind of clears some things up, and long as that cunning linguist has his facts straight. I would like to look into it more, for, if things really were as depicted, I am afraid, that very few Americans have the right picture of the Old West. I do not doubt the brutality, and thieving savagry, but the "modern day foul language" just doesn't seem to fit, like it does when my wife and I watch the Sopranos for instance...
Sudo said: "It's the not 'F' word so much as it is the vile references to women by crude names for their genitals. Its disgusting."
I've never watched it, but the first time I heard the C-word, I'd be outa there! I can cuss like a sailor, but I have my limits.
Sensibilities about language are a funny thing. There are some words I hate to hear (chalk-on-a-blackboard hate) and would never, never say.
I suppose the frequent use of the F word could be justified by saying that the swear words they actually used wouldn't have the same impact on or would be unfamiliar to a modern audience. "Kiss my backside, you whited sepulcher" might lose the average 21st-century viewer.
But as for the series, I don't have HBO. Maybe I'll rent a DVD to see what all the furor is about and plug my ears when the offensive names for women's body parts are uttered.
... particularly during the part where she's looking after that little girl and whenever she would swear in front of the child, she would say "Ooops! Guess that's another penny I owe ya fer cursing."
I figured that kid was gonna be rich before she was 10.
And remember that scene where one of the big saloon/whorehouse owners had that old Chinaman come up to him and say that the white guy had not delivered the opium as promised? And the Saloon owner asked which white guy? Was he a white co ck su ck er? And the Chinaman responds; "Yes! Yes! Big white c oc k su ck e r!" And it went on and on like that. And we all who were watching that were laughing our butts off, women included (Alaskan women I guess-maybe a bit rowdier?). That whole next week as we (guys) worked together as Carpenters on a Union job , kept calling each other that, and laughing alot. But, I still find it hard to believe that that term was used back then. I mean, that would be like hearing John Wayne in The War Wagon say something like "Well, Pilgrim, that really sucks...."
I just heard an interview with the screenwriter tonight on NPR. I can't remember his name but he also wrote Hills Street Blues and NYPD Blue. He taught at Yale before he started his career in film.
Get ready for a rough ride. In Deadwood, HBO's dark, idea- rich western,
there are no black and white hats, just blue talk and shades of gray
By JAMES PONIEWOZIK
TIME MAGAZINE
As its hooves thunder on the horizon, HBO's Deadwood (Sundays, 10 p.m. E.T.; debuts March 21) might seem like the cavalry coming to rescue viewers affronted by Janet Jackson's Super Bowl flash. Something innocent! Something wholesome! A nice western!
Sorry, pardner. In the opening minutes of the series, about a true-life gold rush town, a prospector says he's "f___ed up [his]life flatter 'n hammered s___," while the legendary Calamity Jane (Robin Weigert) calls her associates "ignorant f___in' c__ts." Land o' Goshen! Has nobody in this burg heard of "consarnit" or "tarnation"?
Ask creator David Milch whether pioneers in 1876 really swore like the Sopranos, and the former Yale instructor quotes Geoffrey Chaucer's 14th century The Miller's Tale, which used the same anatomical slur that Calamity Jane does (though, in Middle English, it started with a q). Milch says most of our high-megaton profanities are centuries old, and accounts of the West "are full of the testimony of people whose sensibilities have been scandalized by the resourcefulness of the human spirit in fitting so many obscenities in the most ordinary declarative sentence." This, he says, was the point: Deadwood, S.D., was outside the bounds of the U.S., the law and propriety — just as Milch is now beyond the long reach of the ABC censors who dogged him on NYPD Blue, the show he created with Steven Bochco. Take a group of criminals and scofflaws, mostly men, risking ruin or murder to seek their fortunes — who then blow said fortunes on hookers, craps, dope and booze — and in any century, their epithets will be frequent and stronger than "dagnabbit!"
Really, the language issue is a stand-in for a bigger question. There have been other dark and complicated takes on the western — Robert Altman's McCabe & Mrs. Miller, Clint Eastwood's Unforgiven, Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove — but they, like westerns themselves in recent years, have been as occasional as tumbleweeds. We still associate the genre with the moral simplicity and cliche of its heyday: straight-shooting, black and white hats. (When President Bush said he wanted Osama bin Laden "dead or alive," he wasn't going for relativism.) Are we ready for the genre of John Wayne and Shane to get the gray-hatted HBO treatment?
Milch says he set out not to write a western but to explore a society just starting to form its laws. He first pitched to HBO a series about cops in Rome during Nero's reign. After that project fizzled, he started reading about Deadwood, a town that sprang up when reports of a gold strike were hyped to justify expansion into Indian territory. "It was like time-lapse photography," he says. "Two months before [Deadwood begins], there was nothing. Two years later, they had telephones, before San Francisco did." The settlement had no laws, purposely. "It was a primordial soup," Milch says. "How do people organize themselves, absent law?"
For starters, by killing one another. In this and other surface ways, Deadwood is like many westerns. There's a bad guy, saloon owner Al Swearengen (Ian McShane), who lives large by relieving the locals of their gold nuggets and having his thugs plant a bowie knife in anyone who gets in his way. But he is threatened when — yes — strangers ride into town. Seth Bullock (Timothy Olyphant) is a former marshal with plans to open a hardware store. He's less a good guy than a control freak. In his last act as marshal, he hangs a horse thief without trial, so a mob won't get the satisfaction of lynching him. Does he want to serve justice or just give chaos the finger? The impetus to law, Deadwood suggests, is as much one as the other.
Meanwhile, renowned shootist Wild Bill Hickok (Keith Carradine) has come to town with his retinue. (Most of the leading characters are based on real people.) To Swearengen, the formula is simple: former lawman + gunfighter = nascent police force, especially when the two stumble on a massacre-robbery perpetrated by "road agents" working for him. It seems, though, that Bullock just wants to kick his law habit and make a dollar, and Hickok, to drink and gamble his way into oblivion. "Hickok was acutely aware of his time having passed," says Carradine. "He had outlived his usefulness." Throw in abused prostitute Trixie (Paula Malcomson); Alma Garret, a laudanum-addicted lady from back East (Molly Parker); and E.B. Farnum, a hotel owner and Swearengen's beaten-cur sycophant (William Sanderson, Newhart's Larry), and you have a typical — if dysfunctional — horse-opera cast.
Deadwood HBO-izes this material, though, not just in its profanity but in its moral ambiguity and social criticism. The show is like McCabe for more reasons than that it involves whorehouses and business conflicts. Like the '70s movies of Altman, Martin Scorsese, Roman Polanski, Francis Ford Coppola and others, HBO's dramas rework popcorny genre formats (the cop drama, the Mob flick) with dark, even cynical themes: that institutions are corrupt, that people and systems and families will screw you over, that heroes are never entirely heroic or villains alone in their villainy. Deadwood wants to show not just how the West was won, but who won, what they got and how the process mirrors our time.
Some of Deadwood's strongest insights are about the symbiosis between a racist society and the groups it despises. Take the camp's Chinese cook Wu (Keone Young), who is the butt of slant-eye jokes but has an indispensable role. When someone wants to keep a murder quiet, the corpse is fed — despite the cook's silent disgust — to Wu's pigs. (Which, yes, the townsfolk eat.) Even more essential are the Indians or, as they are dehumanizingly and incessantly called, "the godless heathen c__ksucker Sioux." Although it's two weeks after Custer's massacre at Little Bighorn, they don't appear, except as a constantly invoked and useful menace. Swearengen's road agents even scalp their victims to make it look like an Indian attack. You can't miss the post-9/11 point about the line between danger and exploitation. "An Indian was never seen in Deadwood alive," Milch says. "But if you keep people agitated, they'll drink more and they'll gamble more. So the deep thinkers — the guys who ran the saloons and the brothels — liked to keep people stirred up to the idea of an outside threat."
Milch knows a thing or two about the addict's mind-set. While studying and working at Yale in the '60s and '70s under literary giants Robert Penn Warren and Cleanth Brooks, he says he led a double life as a heroin junkie and gambling addict before cleaning up and becoming a writer for Hill Street Blues. Addicts and gamblers, says Milch, have a "risk taker" personality — just like prospectors, which is why so few of them got rich and so many saloonkeepers did. Says director-producer Davis Guggenheim: Milch has "something most people with intellect don't have — very colorful life experiences."
The writer puts both intellect and experience to good use, especially in Deadwood's dialogue, which is vulgar but well crafted, even oddly formal. ("If you're going to murder me, I'd appreciate a quick dying. And not getting et by the pigs. In case there is resurrection of the flesh.") As with NYPD Blue's mannered police slanguage — or, for that matter, iambic pentameter — no human speaks this way. But the writing does what good dialogue should, which is firmly establish its own world and its own logic.
Deadwood is not the next Sopranos. Everyone likes Italian food, whereas this is beef jerky — slow chewing, an acquired taste but substantial. Sometimes Milch's Shakespearean ambitions get away from him, and the story can drag. But the acting is strong, especially Carradine's leonine, sad gunslinger, who asks his handlers, "Can you let me go to hell the way I want to?" Then there's Doc Cochran (Brad Dourif), the town's physician and its secret keeper — he inspects Swearengen's whores, covers up cases of smallpox, ignores evidence of murder under duress and hides a young girl who witnessed the road agents' massacre — and the pressure has him wound like a watch spring. The best moments in Deadwood happen at the margins, not in gunfights but in the pig pens and doctor's office, as we discover the ecology of this nascent community. It's worth a visit. Just so long as you don't mind getting a mite dirty.
I'm not doubting that the show has some admirable qualities. But Oenophile's information that the screenwriter also wrote for Hill Street Blues and NYPD doesn't impress me much. I couldn't find the article I was talking about but here's one that's similar that also claims.. that people just didn't *TALK* like that in Deadwood in the 19th century!! Click HERE! Which makes the language all the more gratuitous.
And is it because I have this hang up on bad words or something? Yes.. a little bit have to admit. But I was all prepared to enjoy a little enlightened entertainment... excellent acting... excellent writing... excellent direction etc. A show that only those with closed minds to the way things really existed would object. Then I find out that things weren't that way at all. Chalk one more up to Hollywood doing their best to push trash down American throats only THIS time... they want to try to make it high brow.
sudo (who had the same initial vibes as Jonny Lingo.. it was anachronistic!)
But is it artistically trashy, or just trash? That's for each viewer to judge. It's one of the best "new" shows I've seen in a long time, neither because, nor in spite, of the profanity. The script's language is a joy. Two episodes and I'm not tired of it yet.
Anyone who feels obliged to prove "they didn't talk that way back then" may be missing the point entirely. That's okay. A show like Deadwood could never appeal to a wide audience anyway. Either you get it, and possibly like it, or you don't.
If there is any value in this topic, it may be lost if we can't keep the discussion appropriate to this "open" forum. With all due respect to Seth, I'd appreciate it if the moderators would @#$ out the "cussin." We should be able to discuss it, and even refer to it, if not quote it - with discretion, but without resorting to using it, even for effect, for humor, or worst of all, for f'n emphasis.
The line itself would be fine, in a Deadwood saloon, or any real saloon, or gathering where people speak like that, more likely carpenters, or certain musicians I know, than dentists for instance.
I rarely object to public profanity as a spontaneous expression of passion, anger or grief. But its casual use (in public) is another thing, and not particularly commendable. It just uglies up the place, like garbage on the sidewalk.
Why does it still work for Deadwood? Intention, is my guess. The writer intends to create a world, strewn with garbage, and in the midst of which remarkable men and women contend with other more-or-less human predators for survival.
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Tv.? Movie? Offshoots??
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Tom Strange
satori... Costco has the seasons boxes... this it the third and final year for it (they'll do two more two hour movies to wrap it up)... if you find it entertaining now, go back to the beginning... it's pretty accurate historically and the characters you're seeing now, while enjoyable, will have a lot more depth...
it is a good show...
...or you could just rent them probably...
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Zixar
Let's see...I've forgotten some of the actors/characters' names, but here's enough to get you started.
Al Swearingen (Ian McShane) - Owner of the Gem saloon, Swearingen was the cunning but brutal power lord of Deadwood at the beginning of the series. Competition soon moved in, however, from the likes of Cy Tolliver (Powers Boothe), owner of the rival Bella Union saloon/brothel, and newcomer George Hearst (Gerald McRaney).
Sheriff Bullock (Timothy Olyphant) - Ex-lawman who moved to Deadwood to get away from law enforcement. (Didn't last long.) At odds with Swearingen from day one, but now forced into an uneasy alliance with him against the incursions of mining millionaire George Hearst. Married his brother's wife after his brother died, but the relationship is cool and formal at best. Partner in a hardware concern with Sol Starr. Had (having?) an affair with the widow Alma Garrett, who is now pregnant with his child. Somber, taciturn, and explosively violent at times.
Alma Garrett - She and her husband moved to Deadwood in the first episode and bought a gold claim from Swearingen, who had his men salt the property with gold to drive up the purchase price, intending to buy it back from Garrett at a reduced price when the claim turned out to be worthless. Instead, an untapped gold vein is found on the property, prompting Swearingen to arrange a fatal accident for Garrett. Under advice from Bullock, Alma refuses to sell the claim back and remains in Deadwood, now the richest woman in the town. Bullock's advice turns into an affair. Assumed guardianship of a small girl found near the site of a massacre in episode 1.
E. B. Farnum (William Sanderson) - the weaselly owner of the original hotel in town, and puppet mayor under Swearingen. Always out for a buck.
Sol Starr - Bullock's partner in the hardware store, now officer of the town bank, usually derided because he's Jewish, shacked up with Trixie, Swearingen's (ex?-) prostitue madam.
Calamity Jane - The drunken scout of legend, no real fan of Swearingen, friend to Wild Bill Hickok (killed in season 1).
Charlie Utter - Deputy sheriff under Bullock, and closest thing to a friend Jane now has. Bullock, Utter, and Jane are the closest thing to "law" Deadwood might have, but one would be hard pressed to see it without a microscope.
The Doctor (Brad Dourif) - Probably the most sane person in Deadwood, but the competition isn't that great.
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act2
Zixar, you know alot about this series. I do not. However, I do personally know "Joey". He is from W. Memphis, AR, where hubby and I owned our small business. His nickname is Skip, aka Skipper. His given name is Everette.
I have a gorgeous picture of him somewhere taken at the Hard Rock Cafe in Memphis, when our friend Bill Haney had a CD release party. What fun we had.
I have never seen Deadwood, but will probably rent the series so I can see Skip.
Skip's mom and my hubby sold real estate for the same company for a short while, and we installed mirrors and shower enclosures for his step-dad. Great family. In fact, I bought a new home from his step-dad, which is how I first met the family. Now you know more than you ever wanted to know about "Joey" and me, for that matter!!!!!!
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Sudo
Satori,
The language on this series had gotten so foul I quit watching it over a year ago. Gawd, it was awful. Maybe they've cleaned it up a bit now but I had watched it from the very first episode.
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ChattyKathy
Cool! :)
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satori001
There's the language, and there's the language. I probably wouldn't be comfortable watching Deadwood with anyone but a few choice friends, who would share the appreciation for the writing and casting, the story and the general mayhem, and not take offense at the show's prevailing word (which would be the "F" word).
The dialogue is poetry and profanity, a ....-load of shanty Shakespeare. I find myself really enjoying it, so far, but I can see why you could tire of it.
Good summary Zixar. Puts the one episode I've seen into some historical context.
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GrouchoMarxJr
One of the reasons that I enjoy it so much...
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ChattyKathy
I'm not sure how to handle myself seeing no butt when I read your posts. :)
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Zixar
While the series has very crude language, the creators insist that the real Deadwood probably had worse. Apparently the legends of the Old West were heavily sanitized for public consumption.
The series has dealt with some ugly issues, but with the top-notch acting by the ensemble, Deadwood has become one of the best series HBO ever produced. (Personally, I rank it third behind The Sopranos and From The Earth To The Moon, both of which others I highly recommend.)
Ian McShane has really given a masterful performance as Swearingen. He could have made him such a one-dimensional, cookie-cutter bad guy, but McShane has turned him into an amoral, Machiavellian force. However, even malevolent dictators have their problems...
It's worth watching from the beginning. Both previous seasons are available for rent from Blockbuster and NetFlix.
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GarthP2000
I watched the first season myself, and I agree. It sure ain't Bonanza. But it was masterfully done. Think I'll go ahead and rent seasons 2 and 3.
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Sudo
Zixar,
Re:"While the series has very crude language, the creators insist that the real Deadwood probably had worse. Apparently the legends of the Old West were heavily sanitized for public consumption."
That's what I was led to believe, as well, so I tried to "get into" a historical frame of mind. But then I read an article by a noted linguist that said that the language actually used then wasn't of the variety portrayed in the series. That the main way of cursing was sacrilegious in nature.. not sexual. Lots of GD's, references to Hell and the like. Actually, it would be considered quite tame by our standards.
So after reading that article, I realized all the vile language on Deadwood was just gratuitous and the good acting wasn't enough to keep me watching. It's the not 'F' word so much as it is the vile references to women by crude names for their genitals. Its disgusting.
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J0nny Ling0
Ya know, I watched a few episodes a year ago when living with some friends for a couple of months when working in the Alaskan Bush. And they were totally hooked on it. I found it highly entertaining, but the foul language bothered me. Not that it was foul (although it is particularly foul), but it just seemed so "out of period", and therefore kind of "fake". To me it was like watching a movie about the Old West and hearing the characters say things like; "Wow, that wasn't very user friendly", or, "Man Oh Man! I am roflmao and pimp!" It just didn't seem to fit. And so, being fair, I had to ask myself; Did they actually talk that way but I just didn't know it? And if so, I'm down with it. But if not, it seems way goofy to be watching that and allowing my mind to take on a wrong view of the Old West, which I have always loved to read about so much.
And thank you for your post Sudo, that kind of clears some things up, and long as that cunning linguist has his facts straight. I would like to look into it more, for, if things really were as depicted, I am afraid, that very few Americans have the right picture of the Old West. I do not doubt the brutality, and thieving savagry, but the "modern day foul language" just doesn't seem to fit, like it does when my wife and I watch the Sopranos for instance...
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Linda Z
Sudo said: "It's the not 'F' word so much as it is the vile references to women by crude names for their genitals. Its disgusting."
I've never watched it, but the first time I heard the C-word, I'd be outa there! I can cuss like a sailor, but I have my limits.
Sensibilities about language are a funny thing. There are some words I hate to hear (chalk-on-a-blackboard hate) and would never, never say.
I suppose the frequent use of the F word could be justified by saying that the swear words they actually used wouldn't have the same impact on or would be unfamiliar to a modern audience. "Kiss my backside, you whited sepulcher" might lose the average 21st-century viewer.
But as for the series, I don't have HBO. Maybe I'll rent a DVD to see what all the furor is about and plug my ears when the offensive names for women's body parts are uttered.
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J0nny Ling0
I did get a huge kick out of the Calamity Jane character. She is such a hopless drunk! She really made me laugh alot. What a mess...
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GarthP2000
... particularly during the part where she's looking after that little girl and whenever she would swear in front of the child, she would say "Ooops! Guess that's another penny I owe ya fer cursing."
I figured that kid was gonna be rich before she was 10.
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J0nny Ling0
And remember that scene where one of the big saloon/whorehouse owners had that old Chinaman come up to him and say that the white guy had not delivered the opium as promised? And the Saloon owner asked which white guy? Was he a white co ck su ck er? And the Chinaman responds; "Yes! Yes! Big white c oc k su ck e r!" And it went on and on like that. And we all who were watching that were laughing our butts off, women included (Alaskan women I guess-maybe a bit rowdier?). That whole next week as we (guys) worked together as Carpenters on a Union job , kept calling each other that, and laughing alot. But, I still find it hard to believe that that term was used back then. I mean, that would be like hearing John Wayne in The War Wagon say something like "Well, Pilgrim, that really sucks...."
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satori001
If the profanity is "authentic," it's the only thing about the dialogue that is. The language is pure art.
http://thewvsr.com/deadwood.htm
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oenophile
I just heard an interview with the screenwriter tonight on NPR. I can't remember his name but he also wrote Hills Street Blues and NYPD Blue. He taught at Yale before he started his career in film.
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satori001
Something about the direction reminds me of Northern Exposure, the studied frankness of the characters.
From http://www.robinweigert.com/timepress.html
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Sudo
Satori,
I'm not doubting that the show has some admirable qualities. But Oenophile's information that the screenwriter also wrote for Hill Street Blues and NYPD doesn't impress me much. I couldn't find the article I was talking about but here's one that's similar that also claims.. that people just didn't *TALK* like that in Deadwood in the 19th century!! Click HERE! Which makes the language all the more gratuitous.
And is it because I have this hang up on bad words or something? Yes.. a little bit have to admit. But I was all prepared to enjoy a little enlightened entertainment... excellent acting... excellent writing... excellent direction etc. A show that only those with closed minds to the way things really existed would object. Then I find out that things weren't that way at all. Chalk one more up to Hollywood doing their best to push trash down American throats only THIS time... they want to try to make it high brow.
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satori001
Does Deadwood have a trashy side? Sure.
But is it artistically trashy, or just trash? That's for each viewer to judge. It's one of the best "new" shows I've seen in a long time, neither because, nor in spite, of the profanity. The script's language is a joy. Two episodes and I'm not tired of it yet.
Anyone who feels obliged to prove "they didn't talk that way back then" may be missing the point entirely. That's okay. A show like Deadwood could never appeal to a wide audience anyway. Either you get it, and possibly like it, or you don't.
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Seth R.
I Love Deadwood, you muddle headed c oc ksuc kers!
Seth
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satori001
If there is any value in this topic, it may be lost if we can't keep the discussion appropriate to this "open" forum. With all due respect to Seth, I'd appreciate it if the moderators would @#$ out the "cussin." We should be able to discuss it, and even refer to it, if not quote it - with discretion, but without resorting to using it, even for effect, for humor, or worst of all, for f'n emphasis.
The line itself would be fine, in a Deadwood saloon, or any real saloon, or gathering where people speak like that, more likely carpenters, or certain musicians I know, than dentists for instance.
I rarely object to public profanity as a spontaneous expression of passion, anger or grief. But its casual use (in public) is another thing, and not particularly commendable. It just uglies up the place, like garbage on the sidewalk.
Why does it still work for Deadwood? Intention, is my guess. The writer intends to create a world, strewn with garbage, and in the midst of which remarkable men and women contend with other more-or-less human predators for survival.
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