1986..both, ready to enter residence at Emporia, we're told by branch leaders no way this union was supposed to happen at this time..too immature spiritually but could possibly be considered two or three years after becoming Way Corp grads...told if married God had revealed to them the marriage would not last more than two years and if married would not be allowed to enter the Way Corp.....along with all the other fireworks happening at the time, finally booted, labeled, marked and avoid....married in 1986.....hop and skip to 2006...the divorce should be happening any day now..we're thinking the satellite connection to God must have been fuzzy(possibly overcast skies) and they thought 20 years meant two years
When it becomes obvious that the leader who gave God's will was wrong, then the line is: "the ministry is made up of people and people make mistakes."
Until that time, a leader's words = God's will, which they have taught on several occasions. Even when the leader is wrong and you know it, it's still God's will for you to do what you're told.
Being far removed from The Way now, it's wierd seeing how such things were ever believed. Nowadays, someone says something like that to me, they get laughed at and dismissed as being nuts. The culture in The Way definetly promoted believing things any reasonably sane person would dismiss immediatly. Must be related to sitting through meeting after meeting, over and over again, hearing the same things 20, 50, 100 times.
The Way International of course messed in my marriages...BIG TIME...but those are long stories...and not ones I'm ready to tell yet...not quite...
But the very first thing that came to my mind when I read this thread was my relationship with Mo/Templelady.
My family needed a place to live. Our branch leader got together with the limb leader and it was decided that since Mo's family needed help with daycare and housework, me and my daughter would move in with Mo's family of 5. Into a 2 bedroom apartment.
Now this isn't the story twi told Mo, mind you.
The whole time we lived together, twi (via twig leaders and branch leaders) played Mo and I against one another, creating drama if there was none, pointing fingers when the drama was at its height, shunning the both of us, putting pressure on our husbands if we got too out of line.
I had no clue that was what was happening at the time. Well, let me put it another way...I did not perceive twi to be doing anything wrong. I bought into twi's take on my life, my personality, my spiritual state/standing, my husband, my daughter and basically my whole world. I was a piece of s**t and that was that...if bad things happened in my life, well, what else could be expected from the s**t pile?
Why did twi do this?
To cover up a pedophile ring being operated out of the branch home. And other sordid and felonious activities.
How would me and Mo living together, and keeping me and Mo pitted against each other, help cover up such things?
First, both of us being in the same house under the scrutiny of her husband meant that twi could keep a close eye on us.
Second, as long as me and Mo did not make friends and compare notes, the sordid and felonious activities were kept swathed in smoke and mirrors.
This is very hard for me to talk about.
It wasn't until WayDale when me and Mo could finally compare notes that all this came together for me.
The moral of this story:
If twi is fiddling in any relationship you have, you can bet your sweet bippy that twi is doing so to cover up something...
Just reading this post and replying has brought back a flood of memories where I was told by a leader in The Way, usually always a Way Corp grad that something was the will of God. Too many times I blindly obeyed or tucked my tail, asked forgiveness and continued to blindly obey only to pay disasterous consequences for having obeyed only to be told I wasn't believing or was out of fellowship. After leaving The Way, I remember the struggle, the anxiety of making even the smallest of decisions without first seeking approval from leadership.....singing, Thanks For The Memories....
I want people to feel safe in posting their story without fear of any backlash from people doubting their story, attacked with doctrinal issues, or anything else. Given that, this topic will be heavily moderated and watched closely. Anything with even a hint of accusation or attack will be removed.
Thanks, GreasyTech. :) It'll be nice to read a thread that doesn't get derailed.
Perhaps Mo can stop by and tell what they were doing to drive a wedge between the two of you.
After leaving The Way, I remember the struggle, the anxiety of making even the smallest of decisions without first seeking approval from leadership
I've noticed many people struggle with that. Going for years running your decisions by The Way's leadership, getting their approval, knowing you've got God's approval provides a rather nice comfort level and peace of mind. Having to make your own decisions after going so long without is scary and is probably what keeps a lot of people in The Way from ever leaving.
We definitely had plenty of meddling in our relationship. I cant get into all the details now--maybe after more time has passed. What I can say is that we were told not to get married and were discouraged from doing it. Then had to "prove" ourselves worthy of getting married. We are still happily married--definitely NO thanks to twi. I still wrestle with some of the junk they said and required of us before we were married and during our first 2 years of marriage.
Got proposed to a believer in Iowa on Valentine's Day(1999). We had 3 children (I say we cause we felt like a family, they adopted me while dating) I had to hand in a report to my bc everytime I wanted to go see him, in the report I had to state where I was staying, when I was leaving, date of return, felowship I would be going too.....purpose of visit, people I would be visiting. I was only allowed to see them every 3 wks and he was only allowed to visit me every 3 wks, so being the obedient ones we planned every out in advance..We were planing our wedding with the iowa LC's, I loved them, they made us feel so comfortbul and what a blessing they were. My best friend had Cancer and had gone thru all the treatments, and was looking the best she had been in 2 yrs..wanted so bad to be my Maid of Honour. I knew we would have to get this ok'd w/bc.....we went shopping for my dress and we had so much fun.....I told her not tell the bc until we talked it over with her husband and her husband was so excited and told her yes.....she slipped and told the bc and I was put on probation that night.....my bc told me not to call my fiance that she wanted to talk to his lc, and I didnt .I called him balling my broken heart out....we cryed for an hr..I drove out to see him and stayed in a local hotel so the kids wouldnt see me...we cryed again and just couldnt let go of each other for hrs....we were emotionaly exhausted and so torn. I havent seen him since...I called him 4 months ago and he was so excited to talk to me..he tried hunting me down thru a mutual friend. He told me the Way was different (I think he wanted me back) and I was speechless for a while, I was afraid to tell him I knew to much now about Martindale. I just wanted it to be a loving simple conversation, I had buried my hurt so deep that I didnt want to hurt him....
I cannot type any more.. My eyes are to teary..
I will never go back....i will never let anyone have that kind of control over me..again
Oh ((((((((((((likeaneagle)))))))))))))) how very sad that all is. I'm so sorry you had to go through such a heartbreaking thing like that. How trying to have to choose loyalties like that and find yourself in such a no win situation. I hope your heart will heal with enough time, but these people are lunatics! I'm glad you have control over your life again. And we all are here so that people like your ex-fiance will get out in due time and heal.
Nothing in life could of prepared me for this hurt......
I owe everything to prayer...and little things God showed me so I wouldnt fall apart like I did hrs upon hrs.
My friend passed away while i was on probation.I want allowed to vist her. I called the hospital every week to check on her...they told me she expired..
GSC was a great distraction for me and healing at times..I found this website the month my probation ended...
>>>>>>
then a different BC told my daughters they must be doing drugs for not wanting to go to felowship...they were hurt and confused by the all reproof going on .....they are very good is..they babysat my tc kids because they were responsible....they were very picky who they alowed to watch thier chidren..they were oly 10 and 12 when this happened.
they told my ex he had to quit golf in order to prepare for Adv.class-that didnt fly with him..I took it and he didnt, resulting in more marital problems..
One of the things that TWI instituted in the 90's was heavy oversight of teens and young adults who were in college. This included young adults running every major decision by their parents and "leadership". Part of this was submitting a detailed schedule every week.
(Funny how when we were in our teens and 20's, we were encouarged to turn our backs on everything our parenst taught us, to go WOW, to enter the way Corps, despite our parents' objections)
These "suggestions" came about when the Martindale's elder daughter started college - Donna Martindale talked about how they "oversaw" their daughter - leadership expected us all to do this.
My oldest son, who was in his early 20's, resisted and resented this. he had been living on his own or with room mates for several years, and felt that he was adult enough to make his own decisions without clearing everything through us. In my heart I agreed with him. My own parents trusted that I was able to make good decisions (despite evidence to the contrary), but were always available for advice and counsel (they still are!) As good wayfers, my ex-wife and i were under pressure to oversee him, and he was under pressure to be overseen.
The stuff really hit the fan in 1999.
My ex-wife and I had been put on probation for six months. We were prohibited from interacting with any Way folks for that time. Our two oldest sons, who were 20 and 22 at the time, were allowed to attend Way functions, our youngest, who were all under 16, were prohibited as we were. (The 20 year-old lived with us, the 22 year-old didn't)
What complicated matters was that we were told to "oversee" our two oldest as always. So, added to our oldest's already being resentful ofbeing treated like a child, he was having to take direction from his parents who were unfit to be allowed to fellowship with "the household".
On more than one occassion we would give our two cents worth, but find that the local Twig coordinator had given opposite counsel. Since we were not permitted to talk to the Twig coordinator, much frustration ensued.
Toward the end of our probation period, there was a blow-up between my ex-wife and our eldest son. we tried to get him to come over to our house to get it resolved, but he refused. When we asked him why, he gave reasons using language which was obviously supplied by the twig coordinator. We called the Limb Coordinator, the only Way person other than our sons who we were permitted to communicate with and asked him to intervene.
We had a three-way conference call with my ex-wife & I, my son and the Limb Coordinator. Everybody gave his side of the story, and the result was that the LC told my son that whether was right or wrong, he should still listen to his parents, and that being on probation was not an excuse to show disrespect. So far so good. My son apologized to his mother and it looked like the situation was resolved.
The next day we got a return call from the LC. He had talked to the local Twig Coordinator, and said that he now believed that the whole situation was the fault of my ex-wife and I. We had "provoked him to wrath" and were not "overseeing" him properly. From that time onward the TC was to "oversee" our son in place of his parents! My son, who had been convinced by that time that we were the problem, happily went along with this.
Of all the abuses that were heaped upon me during my time in TWI, this is the one that I consider unforgiveable. Thankfully, I have not run into either of these men since leaving TWI.
Within a year, my son saw that the interference was worse from the TC than anything his parents could throw at him, and left TWI in anger; the first of our family to do so.
For a long time we didn't talk, but at Christmas 2004 we reconciled, and have gotten along ever since. (We ran into each other downtown last Friday night, and he bestowed a big hug upon his old dad!)
This is by far not the only interference by The Way into my family, but it's the one that gets my blood to boilin'
I thought most of these stories would be about The Way trying to keep a person in while another is leaving, but reading these accounts is painting a rather ugly picture of sadistic people in power and enjoying the control they can excert.
I see in Likeaneagle and Oakspear's accounts people requiring absolute obedience to The Way's leaders, with severe punishments handed out for disobedience, whether true or not. And for what purpose? Interfering with someone's marriage plans, ending them because they don't like the maid of honor? Handing over someone's children over to someone else?
Reminds me all to much of the Stanford Prison Experiment. If you've never read up on it, I recommend it. Shows what can happen when people are given too much control over other people's lives.
Edit: Better link for the Stanford Prison Experimentt on Wikipedia. Nice summary of how ordinary people turned sadistic when given practicaly absolute power over others.
When I was M&A'd by LCM about 12 years ago, I was living in NK, and my kids were in NK school. One of my older children had mostly way kids for friends, including Leah Martindale, and she was active in a local twig. My daughter and I discussed the situation, and although her siblings preferred to abandon twi with me, she felt the need to continue to fellowship with twi, maintaining the close friendships she had with the other way kids. It hurt, but I understood her decision. It broke my heart to see how her twig coordinator and others at twi tried to pump her for information about me and my doings. It was a bizarre situation. When Laura Lombardi called me, supposedly on LCM's behalf, she mentioned my daughter and her decision to stand with twi, trying to taunt me, I told Laura that my daughter and I had discussed my daughter's decision to continue to fellowship, and that I loved her and was very proud of her. Laura's response? "We'll see how proud you are of her - that will change" What a vile witch! I am happy to report that all four of my children are Way-free and happy, well-adjusted adults. They were not able to destroy our family.
It appears that your letting your daughter decide what she wanted to do about The Way and respecting her decision played a significant part in letting her see The Way for what it really is. Am I reading too much into it? If you had told her she couldn't go to fellowship, and loose all her friends, would that had caused resentment and driven her to The Way?
I can't say that the Way interfered in my relationships, unless you count the fact that we were always busy going somewhere or doing something. Then again we were long gone by the 90s rein of terror, but I would not have let anyone cross boundries that they had no right to cross.
How many family and friends weddings, birthdays, 4th of July get togethers, Christmas, Thanksgiving and blank, blank, blank (you fill in the blank), did you miss because of subtle remarks to outright screaming persuaded you to forgo these events for anything from a twig meeting, which were sometimes held seven days a week, to some class or activity that was being held? We lived with other people crossing bounderies, everyday in our life.
My brother had even changed the date of his wedding to accomodate me. The date he and his fiance had chosen interferred with a class I was scheduled to take. He wanted me there so badly, he was willing to change the date of one of the most important days of his life. I was then told not to go to the wedding not because of any Way event. I was told not to attend beacuse I would be surrounded by unbelievers and there was no profit in my going. This wedding became such an issue I was told I might not be allowed to go WOW the next year should I decide to attend, anyway.
My wonderful brother and I have never had the connection, the intimacy and love, since. He was crushed I didn't attend. Of course he wasn't at my wedding either. It took years and finally he has forgiven me but the relationship had long been doomed.
When I married, I arrogantly told my sister I was having a believer stand up with me as maid of honor because this oh so sacred ceremony had to be witnessed by a believer and not just anyone. She just cried. We had always planned to be there, at the alter for one another. I did this, even after leaving the Way. So, many ingrained beliefs, I continued to live.
I left the Way over 20 years ago and no family relationship is the way it should be. The damage has been done. To this day, I'm viewed with a jaundiced eye by my family. They are good to me, loving, but, they keep their distance. I've asked forgiveness from every one of them. They readily forgave, were even generous about it. But, seem to still watch, wait, expecting me to pull some crazy stunt or come out with some crazy religious statement disputing the way they live their lives or worship God.
It's amazing to me, even after 20 years, suddenly something I was taught by The Way will almost burst from my lips. Most of the time I catch myself. But, sometimes I'll say things so quickly, and after saying them, wonder, omg, do I even believe that, now?
Bounderies were crossed everyday and every single one of us were most likely, just as guilty of crossing those bounderies. God, when I remember how arrogant I was, in the name of love, lording my spirituality over another. To this day, some memory pops in my head, reminding me of things said and done in the name of that spiritual ladder we all climbed.
The issue of whether one allowed The Way to cross boundries is subjective. I can name several examples where someone allowed it and just as many where a person did not and still has a busted relationship.
But even if a person did "allow" The Way to cross boundries, it doe not excuse The Way for doing it or remove the blame they deserve. Just because someone's trust in an organization is abused, the abuse is not excused. Thus it is not relevant to this topic and I ask that the issue not be debated in this thread. This thread is for documenting what The Way does in breaking up relationships.
mckeanj,
Sorry you had to go through that. I was given similiar decisions to make, be with family or attend a ministry event. Sometimes I chose correctly, sometimes not. One time I had to choose between two different ministry events and chose the wrong one, receiving the wrath of a cropse jerk.
We had more of a 'classic' situation. I was one who wanted out and waited for spouse.
Our HFC had no use for me, but loved hubby. Hubby and I often split for weeknight HFs because we had young school kids and there was no way to get them to bed before 10 or so on a HFC night. Hubby would get the ol' buddy treatment and I would get jumped when I was by myself. Over and Over.
This situation went on for a couple of years(maybe longer) and worsened when I told hubby I wanted to leave TWI, and hubby went to the HFC for 'wise' counsel. That was the only time hubby went to the HFC about anything between us. I think if it had become a pattern, our marriage would have been over. So something about that counsel cautioned hubby...I might ask him about that sometime because I don't know all the details. It was a painful time.
Hubby was sure I was just being too sensitive until he caught the tail end of a phone call where I got reamed over a stupid little detail my Hubby(and wives had no decision making abilties at this time, I was honestly just following orders) had me call the HFC to change. HFC was yelling, calling me a liar etc...after that alot of little things fell into place for hubby and we left.
Oh--later we got in touch with several other couples who had been in that HF. They had the same pattern--liked hubby, hated the wives. One of those couples did divorce.
It was not my intent to start a discussion on boundries only offering a view of the other side of the coin you are tossing around. I would disagree that it is not relevant however, if one does not allow intrusion in ones affairs then it is a little hard to assign blame for something that they had no part in. I'll start a different thread.....
Im sorry but this word "boundaries " is a new word to the new world.
In the 80's and 90 few had that word in the vocabulary.. today it it used to an extraordinary amount.
that book was a top seller and many grasp that concept and vocabulary NOW in present time. it has not always been such a handy dandy catch word for people. I wish somone would use a different word actualy .
for me twi presented itself as ONE and family and one body and renewed mind. any crossing that and it got bad.
boundaries???? oh no I do not think so. I had alot of my friends take the class .. some are stil involved in twi.. we went from friends to now IM a lesser human in humanity cause i do not join in .
um how did THAT happen?
I do think groups and group thinking that all is one one for all thinking is about control those who like the power of telling others and those who like not taking responsibility for their own life.
the pay has to be enough and then the cost is just to dam high and it is over. Isnt that true in any relationship built around a system of thinking that allows those types of relationships to be empowered?
I had no spouse or close non TWI friends when I became involved. Of course I did have some family, but I had no problems there, even when I was visited at Emporia. The problems came only after the church that initiated the deprogramming process, and the deprogrammers themselves, "informed" my family how bad they felt TWI was, and that I was not really their family member (i.e. not the person they knew) as long as I was in TWI.
The Way has a long history of interfering in relationships. This is not just something invented by the Martindales in order to "oversee" their flock...
In 1972 when I was first introduced to TWI I was in a loving relationship with a wonderful guy. We had both been part of the typical late-60's early 70's drug culture. I introduced my boyfriend to the fellowship. My fellowship coordinator's wife, Frxn, later asked me why I would want to be with a guy with such a weird last name, and began making fun of it. His name never bothered me, I just thought her reaction showed her ignorance. Later on, when we became engaged, she made fun of the fact I actually had a beautiful engagement ring (something she never got when she eloped-- so I just took it as jealousy).
As time went on and I became more dedicated to TWI, she and her husband, Jxhn Nxve, disparaged my fiance to me by telling me he wasn't "committed enough" and was "full of pride" and that he would drag me down. Although we both became twig coordinators, at every leader's meeting, our BC would rail on my fiance for being "full of pride" and "not committed enough." These meetings were non-stop shouting at us for two hours at a time, mostly reproving my fiance for his lack of commitment. So, over the span of less than a year the Nxves were eventually successful in placing a wedge between me and my finace. I decided to go out WOW and broke my engagement to him. It literally broke his heart. --And mine, because we truly loved each other. My choice, as they presented it to me, was to choose God over my fiance. So I broke it off and gave back the ring. All carefully contrived by my fellowship coordinators. He left the ministry.
Later on when I went into The Way Corps, he came back into the ministry, mainly, because I encouraged him to do so whenever I had happened to see him the previous year. During my first year in residence, he contacted me and told me he missed me, so I invited him out to Emporia to "get healed." He came for a visit, and got back into TWI. I went out WOW on my interim year and he went as well, and we were assigned to the same state. Moneyhands discouraged my involvement with him because he "was not Way Corps material." I was extremely torn.
At the end of the year, he asked me to marry him again. I told him I needed to marry a corps man, per VPW's advice. He said he would go in. I said to be engaged for 4-5 years was not fair to either of us, so I turned him down. He became apprentice Corps. I became involved with Geek during my last year in residence, and became engaged right before Christmas break. When I went home for Christmas, my old fiance came to visit me at my parent's house. He was apprentice Corps now, and had my old engagement ring in his pocket. But before he popped the question a third time, I broke the news to him that I had become engaged, and I broke his heart again, bringing him to tears.
Geek and I married right after graduation. I don't want to get into all the emotion about it, but it was extremely hard on both me and my ex-fiance. I saw him at the Rock of Ages a couple weeks after I got married and he looked like his best friend had died. His eyes were red. He teared up when we talked. He went through a very rough period but eventually graduated from The Way Corps, married and had children, and is still married. However, some time after he married, he discovered he had an incurable illness, probably contracted during that rough period. While he is still married, he did indicate when we last spoke, that their relationship is distant. I hear from him about once every other year or so. And he is still stuck in that cult.
During the early part of my marriage to Geek, he went through his own rough period with alcohol, and when I tried to get his leadership to see he had a problem, no one would believe me, from the Region leader on down. I even got a phone call from the LC's wife telling me she felt I needed to be a "quieter wife with my husband," and "more like Mrs. Wierwille." After asking her to give me specific incidents regarding my behavior, she could not offer any. I then told her in no uncertain terms that if she ever wanted to call me up again and reprove me, she had damned well better have something more specific in mind and hung up on her.
Later on that year, we were invited to a Corps Thanksgiving dinner at the AC's house. After dinner, I was called into a parlor and was seated in a chair in the middle of the room. Frxnk Scxife, Krxs Kxle, Rxb Kxhoe, and several others all stood around screaming and yelling at me that I was "ruining my husband's ministry." The entire time, I sat there quietly staring at my husband, who knew the truth. Finally, I stood up and told them "FXXK YOU. I don't want anything to do with you or with your ministry in this state." I stood up, walked out, and my husband followed me out of the room. On the way home, he apologized for his error, and vowed to make it right-- which he eventually did. From that point forward, we stopped going to anything in the state of Illinois other than Corps meetings (something you couldn't get away with nowadays), and sent our ABS in directly to HQ instead of through Illinois, as a show of no confidence in the state leadership.
A couple months later when we were invited to HQ to a research meeting, I went to VPW and was telling him what had happened at the Thanksgiving "ambush." Before I could finish, he said, "Aw, hell, I would have said FXXK YOU and walked out. I burst into tears and VPW asked Geek what I was crying about. Geek said, "Well, sir that's exactly what she did!" VP laughed and said, "Aw, that's my girl!" He built us a fire in his study and told us to stay there as long as we wanted, and left to go to a meeting. The next day, VPW called the LC to a private face to face meeting and kicked his foot, and nearly fired him. But I was always treated by the leadership in the state of Illinois, like I had ruined Geek's ministry when I actually saved his foot. Ask him, he'll tell you so. --And those men always resented the fact I went over their heads and it rained shxt on them from the top down.
Fast forward to coming to Cleveland. Mxrk and Jxsephine Wxllxce and Lxrry and Cxnnie Pxnxrello did everything they could to interfere with our family and divide our marriage. At every turn, Mxrk Wxllxce tried to interfere with our daughter's medical care, even enlisting the help of Jxn Gexrge to get me to not follow the care prescribed by an entire team of physicians and specialists at The Cleveland Clinic.
Wxllxce's behavior toward me and Geek was very reminiscent of Jxhn Nxve's behavior toward me and my fiance back in 1972. Wxllxce disparaged my husband to me every chance he got, telling me that Geek had a lack of "passion for the truth." Cxnnie Pxnxrello even blatantly stated that my ankle was not healing because "Your husband doesn't love you enough." (It was not healing because it was broken in an unmarked trench at The Rock of Ages and then misdiagnosed-- another long story) Through constant pressure we refused to bend to their demands and they simply increased the pressure.
Wxllxce eventually removed us from being fellowship coordinators. He came to our home, sent my daughter to her room (Oh, yes HE did) and then sat just on the other side of the wall from where she was sitting and screamed at us at the top of his lungs. He shouted that if Geek didn't "get a passion for the truth," that Geek would "die a lonely old man," and that I would be "hobbled for life" and that our daughter would become a "stark, raving lunatic." My daughter was only 10 years old at the time she heard his words screamed through her bedroom wall.
She is now almost 21 years old, and recently told me that she is haunted by Wxllxce's "prophecy." She spent years worrying that her dad would die, that something awful would happen to me, and that she would go crazy. What Mxrk Wxllxce, a paid minister and representative of The Way International did to her-- he got paid by The Way International to do this to her and her family-- this has affected her severely. And one day when she is of age, she just might take him and them to task for it. What she decides to do about it when she becomes an adult is strictly up to her.
The straw that broke the camel's back for me was simple. As simple as Jxsephine Wxllxce undercutting my authority as a mother with my own child. I forbade my daughter from taking another piece of candy from a dish. Jxsephine told her to go ahead and take it anyway, right in front of me right after I said that. That was enough for me.
When we left fellowship that night, on the way home, I announced we were never going back, that I had had enough. My daughter was so upset (because she just KNEW NOW her Dad was GOING to die, that something awful WOULD happen to me, and then she WOULD be going crazy), she called Jxsephine as soon as we got home. I let her. I just let her. I didn't care what they thought, because I was done with them. Mark Wxllxce came by the next day and demanded we meet with him.
I keep wondering, why the hell did I go and meet with him if I was done? I dunno, just chalk it up to my even still feeling I was under some kind of spiritual obligation. (Hell, it's a cult, remember?) So, we all went. They again shut my daughter up in the next room while they screamed and yelled at us. Imagine the fear of a 10 year old girl who is having to listen to such tirades over the sound of the TV. To this day, I cannot stand "Charlotte's Web," the video they put on for her hoping to drown out their screaming. So AFTER I decided to leave, Wxllxce and TWI decided to put us on probation and then M&A us.
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mckeanj
1986..both, ready to enter residence at Emporia, we're told by branch leaders no way this union was supposed to happen at this time..too immature spiritually but could possibly be considered two or three years after becoming Way Corp grads...told if married God had revealed to them the marriage would not last more than two years and if married would not be allowed to enter the Way Corp.....along with all the other fireworks happening at the time, finally booted, labeled, marked and avoid....married in 1986.....hop and skip to 2006...the divorce should be happening any day now..we're thinking the satellite connection to God must have been fuzzy(possibly overcast skies) and they thought 20 years meant two years
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GT
mckeanj,
Looks like both of you handled it well.
Let's see:
So basically they were telling you, get married and you're going against God's will?
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mckeanj
Isn't going against the will of The Way Ministry the same thing?
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GT
When it becomes obvious that the leader who gave God's will was wrong, then the line is: "the ministry is made up of people and people make mistakes."
Until that time, a leader's words = God's will, which they have taught on several occasions. Even when the leader is wrong and you know it, it's still God's will for you to do what you're told.
Being far removed from The Way now, it's wierd seeing how such things were ever believed. Nowadays, someone says something like that to me, they get laughed at and dismissed as being nuts. The culture in The Way definetly promoted believing things any reasonably sane person would dismiss immediatly. Must be related to sitting through meeting after meeting, over and over again, hearing the same things 20, 50, 100 times.
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CoolWaters
The Way International of course messed in my marriages...BIG TIME...but those are long stories...and not ones I'm ready to tell yet...not quite...
But the very first thing that came to my mind when I read this thread was my relationship with Mo/Templelady.
My family needed a place to live. Our branch leader got together with the limb leader and it was decided that since Mo's family needed help with daycare and housework, me and my daughter would move in with Mo's family of 5. Into a 2 bedroom apartment.
Now this isn't the story twi told Mo, mind you.
The whole time we lived together, twi (via twig leaders and branch leaders) played Mo and I against one another, creating drama if there was none, pointing fingers when the drama was at its height, shunning the both of us, putting pressure on our husbands if we got too out of line.
I had no clue that was what was happening at the time. Well, let me put it another way...I did not perceive twi to be doing anything wrong. I bought into twi's take on my life, my personality, my spiritual state/standing, my husband, my daughter and basically my whole world. I was a piece of s**t and that was that...if bad things happened in my life, well, what else could be expected from the s**t pile?
Why did twi do this?
To cover up a pedophile ring being operated out of the branch home. And other sordid and felonious activities.
How would me and Mo living together, and keeping me and Mo pitted against each other, help cover up such things?
First, both of us being in the same house under the scrutiny of her husband meant that twi could keep a close eye on us.
Second, as long as me and Mo did not make friends and compare notes, the sordid and felonious activities were kept swathed in smoke and mirrors.
This is very hard for me to talk about.
It wasn't until WayDale when me and Mo could finally compare notes that all this came together for me.
The moral of this story:
If twi is fiddling in any relationship you have, you can bet your sweet bippy that twi is doing so to cover up something...
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mckeanj
Just reading this post and replying has brought back a flood of memories where I was told by a leader in The Way, usually always a Way Corp grad that something was the will of God. Too many times I blindly obeyed or tucked my tail, asked forgiveness and continued to blindly obey only to pay disasterous consequences for having obeyed only to be told I wasn't believing or was out of fellowship. After leaving The Way, I remember the struggle, the anxiety of making even the smallest of decisions without first seeking approval from leadership.....singing, Thanks For The Memories....
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dmiller
Thanks, GreasyTech. :) It'll be nice to read a thread that doesn't get derailed.
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GT
I found a thread talking about the pedophile in Alaska you mentioned CoolWaters: What the world outside of waybrain thinks about pedophiles.
Perhaps Mo can stop by and tell what they were doing to drive a wedge between the two of you.
I've noticed many people struggle with that. Going for years running your decisions by The Way's leadership, getting their approval, knowing you've got God's approval provides a rather nice comfort level and peace of mind. Having to make your own decisions after going so long without is scary and is probably what keeps a lot of people in The Way from ever leaving.
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penguin
We definitely had plenty of meddling in our relationship. I cant get into all the details now--maybe after more time has passed. What I can say is that we were told not to get married and were discouraged from doing it. Then had to "prove" ourselves worthy of getting married. We are still happily married--definitely NO thanks to twi. I still wrestle with some of the junk they said and required of us before we were married and during our first 2 years of marriage.
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likeaneagle
Got proposed to a believer in Iowa on Valentine's Day(1999). We had 3 children (I say we cause we felt like a family, they adopted me while dating) I had to hand in a report to my bc everytime I wanted to go see him, in the report I had to state where I was staying, when I was leaving, date of return, felowship I would be going too.....purpose of visit, people I would be visiting. I was only allowed to see them every 3 wks and he was only allowed to visit me every 3 wks, so being the obedient ones we planned every out in advance..We were planing our wedding with the iowa LC's, I loved them, they made us feel so comfortbul and what a blessing they were. My best friend had Cancer and had gone thru all the treatments, and was looking the best she had been in 2 yrs..wanted so bad to be my Maid of Honour. I knew we would have to get this ok'd w/bc.....we went shopping for my dress and we had so much fun.....I told her not tell the bc until we talked it over with her husband and her husband was so excited and told her yes.....she slipped and told the bc and I was put on probation that night.....my bc told me not to call my fiance that she wanted to talk to his lc, and I didnt .I called him balling my broken heart out....we cryed for an hr..I drove out to see him and stayed in a local hotel so the kids wouldnt see me...we cryed again and just couldnt let go of each other for hrs....we were emotionaly exhausted and so torn. I havent seen him since...I called him 4 months ago and he was so excited to talk to me..he tried hunting me down thru a mutual friend. He told me the Way was different (I think he wanted me back) and I was speechless for a while, I was afraid to tell him I knew to much now about Martindale. I just wanted it to be a loving simple conversation, I had buried my hurt so deep that I didnt want to hurt him....
I cannot type any more.. My eyes are to teary..
I will never go back....i will never let anyone have that kind of control over me..again
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jardinero
Oh ((((((((((((likeaneagle)))))))))))))) how very sad that all is. I'm so sorry you had to go through such a heartbreaking thing like that. How trying to have to choose loyalties like that and find yourself in such a no win situation. I hope your heart will heal with enough time, but these people are lunatics! I'm glad you have control over your life again. And we all are here so that people like your ex-fiance will get out in due time and heal.
J.
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likeaneagle
Jardinero-
Nothing in life could of prepared me for this hurt......
I owe everything to prayer...and little things God showed me so I wouldnt fall apart like I did hrs upon hrs.
My friend passed away while i was on probation.I want allowed to vist her. I called the hospital every week to check on her...they told me she expired..
GSC was a great distraction for me and healing at times..I found this website the month my probation ended...
>>>>>>
then a different BC told my daughters they must be doing drugs for not wanting to go to felowship...they were hurt and confused by the all reproof going on .....they are very good is..they babysat my tc kids because they were responsible....they were very picky who they alowed to watch thier chidren..they were oly 10 and 12 when this happened.
they told my ex he had to quit golf in order to prepare for Adv.class-that didnt fly with him..I took it and he didnt, resulting in more marital problems..
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Oakspear
One of the things that TWI instituted in the 90's was heavy oversight of teens and young adults who were in college. This included young adults running every major decision by their parents and "leadership". Part of this was submitting a detailed schedule every week.
(Funny how when we were in our teens and 20's, we were encouarged to turn our backs on everything our parenst taught us, to go WOW, to enter the way Corps, despite our parents' objections)
These "suggestions" came about when the Martindale's elder daughter started college - Donna Martindale talked about how they "oversaw" their daughter - leadership expected us all to do this.
My oldest son, who was in his early 20's, resisted and resented this. he had been living on his own or with room mates for several years, and felt that he was adult enough to make his own decisions without clearing everything through us. In my heart I agreed with him. My own parents trusted that I was able to make good decisions (despite evidence to the contrary), but were always available for advice and counsel (they still are!) As good wayfers, my ex-wife and i were under pressure to oversee him, and he was under pressure to be overseen.
The stuff really hit the fan in 1999.
My ex-wife and I had been put on probation for six months. We were prohibited from interacting with any Way folks for that time. Our two oldest sons, who were 20 and 22 at the time, were allowed to attend Way functions, our youngest, who were all under 16, were prohibited as we were. (The 20 year-old lived with us, the 22 year-old didn't)
What complicated matters was that we were told to "oversee" our two oldest as always. So, added to our oldest's already being resentful ofbeing treated like a child, he was having to take direction from his parents who were unfit to be allowed to fellowship with "the household".
On more than one occassion we would give our two cents worth, but find that the local Twig coordinator had given opposite counsel. Since we were not permitted to talk to the Twig coordinator, much frustration ensued.
Toward the end of our probation period, there was a blow-up between my ex-wife and our eldest son. we tried to get him to come over to our house to get it resolved, but he refused. When we asked him why, he gave reasons using language which was obviously supplied by the twig coordinator. We called the Limb Coordinator, the only Way person other than our sons who we were permitted to communicate with and asked him to intervene.
We had a three-way conference call with my ex-wife & I, my son and the Limb Coordinator. Everybody gave his side of the story, and the result was that the LC told my son that whether was right or wrong, he should still listen to his parents, and that being on probation was not an excuse to show disrespect. So far so good. My son apologized to his mother and it looked like the situation was resolved.
The next day we got a return call from the LC. He had talked to the local Twig Coordinator, and said that he now believed that the whole situation was the fault of my ex-wife and I. We had "provoked him to wrath" and were not "overseeing" him properly. From that time onward the TC was to "oversee" our son in place of his parents! My son, who had been convinced by that time that we were the problem, happily went along with this.
Of all the abuses that were heaped upon me during my time in TWI, this is the one that I consider unforgiveable. Thankfully, I have not run into either of these men since leaving TWI.
Within a year, my son saw that the interference was worse from the TC than anything his parents could throw at him, and left TWI in anger; the first of our family to do so.
For a long time we didn't talk, but at Christmas 2004 we reconciled, and have gotten along ever since. (We ran into each other downtown last Friday night, and he bestowed a big hug upon his old dad!)
This is by far not the only interference by The Way into my family, but it's the one that gets my blood to boilin'
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GT
I thought most of these stories would be about The Way trying to keep a person in while another is leaving, but reading these accounts is painting a rather ugly picture of sadistic people in power and enjoying the control they can excert.
I see in Likeaneagle and Oakspear's accounts people requiring absolute obedience to The Way's leaders, with severe punishments handed out for disobedience, whether true or not. And for what purpose? Interfering with someone's marriage plans, ending them because they don't like the maid of honor? Handing over someone's children over to someone else?
Reminds me all to much of the Stanford Prison Experiment. If you've never read up on it, I recommend it. Shows what can happen when people are given too much control over other people's lives.
Edit: Better link for the Stanford Prison Experimentt on Wikipedia. Nice summary of how ordinary people turned sadistic when given practicaly absolute power over others.
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goodseed
When I was M&A'd by LCM about 12 years ago, I was living in NK, and my kids were in NK school. One of my older children had mostly way kids for friends, including Leah Martindale, and she was active in a local twig. My daughter and I discussed the situation, and although her siblings preferred to abandon twi with me, she felt the need to continue to fellowship with twi, maintaining the close friendships she had with the other way kids. It hurt, but I understood her decision. It broke my heart to see how her twig coordinator and others at twi tried to pump her for information about me and my doings. It was a bizarre situation. When Laura Lombardi called me, supposedly on LCM's behalf, she mentioned my daughter and her decision to stand with twi, trying to taunt me, I told Laura that my daughter and I had discussed my daughter's decision to continue to fellowship, and that I loved her and was very proud of her. Laura's response? "We'll see how proud you are of her - that will change" What a vile witch! I am happy to report that all four of my children are Way-free and happy, well-adjusted adults. They were not able to destroy our family.
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GT
Goodseed,
It appears that your letting your daughter decide what she wanted to do about The Way and respecting her decision played a significant part in letting her see The Way for what it really is. Am I reading too much into it? If you had told her she couldn't go to fellowship, and loose all her friends, would that had caused resentment and driven her to The Way?
In case anyone hasn't seen this before, the Arkansa Gazette has had an article posted on this topic for quite some time now: The Way: After a family breaks up, questions arise about the group
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WhiteDove
I can't say that the Way interfered in my relationships, unless you count the fact that we were always busy going somewhere or doing something. Then again we were long gone by the 90s rein of terror, but I would not have let anyone cross boundries that they had no right to cross.
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mckeanj
How many family and friends weddings, birthdays, 4th of July get togethers, Christmas, Thanksgiving and blank, blank, blank (you fill in the blank), did you miss because of subtle remarks to outright screaming persuaded you to forgo these events for anything from a twig meeting, which were sometimes held seven days a week, to some class or activity that was being held? We lived with other people crossing bounderies, everyday in our life.
My brother had even changed the date of his wedding to accomodate me. The date he and his fiance had chosen interferred with a class I was scheduled to take. He wanted me there so badly, he was willing to change the date of one of the most important days of his life. I was then told not to go to the wedding not because of any Way event. I was told not to attend beacuse I would be surrounded by unbelievers and there was no profit in my going. This wedding became such an issue I was told I might not be allowed to go WOW the next year should I decide to attend, anyway.
My wonderful brother and I have never had the connection, the intimacy and love, since. He was crushed I didn't attend. Of course he wasn't at my wedding either. It took years and finally he has forgiven me but the relationship had long been doomed.
When I married, I arrogantly told my sister I was having a believer stand up with me as maid of honor because this oh so sacred ceremony had to be witnessed by a believer and not just anyone. She just cried. We had always planned to be there, at the alter for one another. I did this, even after leaving the Way. So, many ingrained beliefs, I continued to live.
I left the Way over 20 years ago and no family relationship is the way it should be. The damage has been done. To this day, I'm viewed with a jaundiced eye by my family. They are good to me, loving, but, they keep their distance. I've asked forgiveness from every one of them. They readily forgave, were even generous about it. But, seem to still watch, wait, expecting me to pull some crazy stunt or come out with some crazy religious statement disputing the way they live their lives or worship God.
It's amazing to me, even after 20 years, suddenly something I was taught by The Way will almost burst from my lips. Most of the time I catch myself. But, sometimes I'll say things so quickly, and after saying them, wonder, omg, do I even believe that, now?
Bounderies were crossed everyday and every single one of us were most likely, just as guilty of crossing those bounderies. God, when I remember how arrogant I was, in the name of love, lording my spirituality over another. To this day, some memory pops in my head, reminding me of things said and done in the name of that spiritual ladder we all climbed.
It takes time, but, it does get better.
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GT
The issue of whether one allowed The Way to cross boundries is subjective. I can name several examples where someone allowed it and just as many where a person did not and still has a busted relationship.
But even if a person did "allow" The Way to cross boundries, it doe not excuse The Way for doing it or remove the blame they deserve. Just because someone's trust in an organization is abused, the abuse is not excused. Thus it is not relevant to this topic and I ask that the issue not be debated in this thread. This thread is for documenting what The Way does in breaking up relationships.
mckeanj,
Sorry you had to go through that. I was given similiar decisions to make, be with family or attend a ministry event. Sometimes I chose correctly, sometimes not. One time I had to choose between two different ministry events and chose the wrong one, receiving the wrath of a cropse jerk.
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Bramble
We had more of a 'classic' situation. I was one who wanted out and waited for spouse.
Our HFC had no use for me, but loved hubby. Hubby and I often split for weeknight HFs because we had young school kids and there was no way to get them to bed before 10 or so on a HFC night. Hubby would get the ol' buddy treatment and I would get jumped when I was by myself. Over and Over.
This situation went on for a couple of years(maybe longer) and worsened when I told hubby I wanted to leave TWI, and hubby went to the HFC for 'wise' counsel. That was the only time hubby went to the HFC about anything between us. I think if it had become a pattern, our marriage would have been over. So something about that counsel cautioned hubby...I might ask him about that sometime because I don't know all the details. It was a painful time.
Hubby was sure I was just being too sensitive until he caught the tail end of a phone call where I got reamed over a stupid little detail my Hubby(and wives had no decision making abilties at this time, I was honestly just following orders) had me call the HFC to change. HFC was yelling, calling me a liar etc...after that alot of little things fell into place for hubby and we left.
Oh--later we got in touch with several other couples who had been in that HF. They had the same pattern--liked hubby, hated the wives. One of those couples did divorce.
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WhiteDove
It was not my intent to start a discussion on boundries only offering a view of the other side of the coin you are tossing around. I would disagree that it is not relevant however, if one does not allow intrusion in ones affairs then it is a little hard to assign blame for something that they had no part in. I'll start a different thread.....
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pond
Im sorry but this word "boundaries " is a new word to the new world.
In the 80's and 90 few had that word in the vocabulary.. today it it used to an extraordinary amount.
that book was a top seller and many grasp that concept and vocabulary NOW in present time. it has not always been such a handy dandy catch word for people. I wish somone would use a different word actualy .
for me twi presented itself as ONE and family and one body and renewed mind. any crossing that and it got bad.
boundaries???? oh no I do not think so. I had alot of my friends take the class .. some are stil involved in twi.. we went from friends to now IM a lesser human in humanity cause i do not join in .
um how did THAT happen?
I do think groups and group thinking that all is one one for all thinking is about control those who like the power of telling others and those who like not taking responsibility for their own life.
the pay has to be enough and then the cost is just to dam high and it is over. Isnt that true in any relationship built around a system of thinking that allows those types of relationships to be empowered?
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Lifted Up
I had no spouse or close non TWI friends when I became involved. Of course I did have some family, but I had no problems there, even when I was visited at Emporia. The problems came only after the church that initiated the deprogramming process, and the deprogrammers themselves, "informed" my family how bad they felt TWI was, and that I was not really their family member (i.e. not the person they knew) as long as I was in TWI.
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Catcup
The Way has a long history of interfering in relationships. This is not just something invented by the Martindales in order to "oversee" their flock...
In 1972 when I was first introduced to TWI I was in a loving relationship with a wonderful guy. We had both been part of the typical late-60's early 70's drug culture. I introduced my boyfriend to the fellowship. My fellowship coordinator's wife, Frxn, later asked me why I would want to be with a guy with such a weird last name, and began making fun of it. His name never bothered me, I just thought her reaction showed her ignorance. Later on, when we became engaged, she made fun of the fact I actually had a beautiful engagement ring (something she never got when she eloped-- so I just took it as jealousy).
As time went on and I became more dedicated to TWI, she and her husband, Jxhn Nxve, disparaged my fiance to me by telling me he wasn't "committed enough" and was "full of pride" and that he would drag me down. Although we both became twig coordinators, at every leader's meeting, our BC would rail on my fiance for being "full of pride" and "not committed enough." These meetings were non-stop shouting at us for two hours at a time, mostly reproving my fiance for his lack of commitment. So, over the span of less than a year the Nxves were eventually successful in placing a wedge between me and my finace. I decided to go out WOW and broke my engagement to him. It literally broke his heart. --And mine, because we truly loved each other. My choice, as they presented it to me, was to choose God over my fiance. So I broke it off and gave back the ring. All carefully contrived by my fellowship coordinators. He left the ministry.
Later on when I went into The Way Corps, he came back into the ministry, mainly, because I encouraged him to do so whenever I had happened to see him the previous year. During my first year in residence, he contacted me and told me he missed me, so I invited him out to Emporia to "get healed." He came for a visit, and got back into TWI. I went out WOW on my interim year and he went as well, and we were assigned to the same state. Moneyhands discouraged my involvement with him because he "was not Way Corps material." I was extremely torn.
At the end of the year, he asked me to marry him again. I told him I needed to marry a corps man, per VPW's advice. He said he would go in. I said to be engaged for 4-5 years was not fair to either of us, so I turned him down. He became apprentice Corps. I became involved with Geek during my last year in residence, and became engaged right before Christmas break. When I went home for Christmas, my old fiance came to visit me at my parent's house. He was apprentice Corps now, and had my old engagement ring in his pocket. But before he popped the question a third time, I broke the news to him that I had become engaged, and I broke his heart again, bringing him to tears.
Geek and I married right after graduation. I don't want to get into all the emotion about it, but it was extremely hard on both me and my ex-fiance. I saw him at the Rock of Ages a couple weeks after I got married and he looked like his best friend had died. His eyes were red. He teared up when we talked. He went through a very rough period but eventually graduated from The Way Corps, married and had children, and is still married. However, some time after he married, he discovered he had an incurable illness, probably contracted during that rough period. While he is still married, he did indicate when we last spoke, that their relationship is distant. I hear from him about once every other year or so. And he is still stuck in that cult.
During the early part of my marriage to Geek, he went through his own rough period with alcohol, and when I tried to get his leadership to see he had a problem, no one would believe me, from the Region leader on down. I even got a phone call from the LC's wife telling me she felt I needed to be a "quieter wife with my husband," and "more like Mrs. Wierwille." After asking her to give me specific incidents regarding my behavior, she could not offer any. I then told her in no uncertain terms that if she ever wanted to call me up again and reprove me, she had damned well better have something more specific in mind and hung up on her.
Later on that year, we were invited to a Corps Thanksgiving dinner at the AC's house. After dinner, I was called into a parlor and was seated in a chair in the middle of the room. Frxnk Scxife, Krxs Kxle, Rxb Kxhoe, and several others all stood around screaming and yelling at me that I was "ruining my husband's ministry." The entire time, I sat there quietly staring at my husband, who knew the truth. Finally, I stood up and told them "FXXK YOU. I don't want anything to do with you or with your ministry in this state." I stood up, walked out, and my husband followed me out of the room. On the way home, he apologized for his error, and vowed to make it right-- which he eventually did. From that point forward, we stopped going to anything in the state of Illinois other than Corps meetings (something you couldn't get away with nowadays), and sent our ABS in directly to HQ instead of through Illinois, as a show of no confidence in the state leadership.
A couple months later when we were invited to HQ to a research meeting, I went to VPW and was telling him what had happened at the Thanksgiving "ambush." Before I could finish, he said, "Aw, hell, I would have said FXXK YOU and walked out. I burst into tears and VPW asked Geek what I was crying about. Geek said, "Well, sir that's exactly what she did!" VP laughed and said, "Aw, that's my girl!" He built us a fire in his study and told us to stay there as long as we wanted, and left to go to a meeting. The next day, VPW called the LC to a private face to face meeting and kicked his foot, and nearly fired him. But I was always treated by the leadership in the state of Illinois, like I had ruined Geek's ministry when I actually saved his foot. Ask him, he'll tell you so. --And those men always resented the fact I went over their heads and it rained shxt on them from the top down.
Fast forward to coming to Cleveland. Mxrk and Jxsephine Wxllxce and Lxrry and Cxnnie Pxnxrello did everything they could to interfere with our family and divide our marriage. At every turn, Mxrk Wxllxce tried to interfere with our daughter's medical care, even enlisting the help of Jxn Gexrge to get me to not follow the care prescribed by an entire team of physicians and specialists at The Cleveland Clinic.
Wxllxce's behavior toward me and Geek was very reminiscent of Jxhn Nxve's behavior toward me and my fiance back in 1972. Wxllxce disparaged my husband to me every chance he got, telling me that Geek had a lack of "passion for the truth." Cxnnie Pxnxrello even blatantly stated that my ankle was not healing because "Your husband doesn't love you enough." (It was not healing because it was broken in an unmarked trench at The Rock of Ages and then misdiagnosed-- another long story) Through constant pressure we refused to bend to their demands and they simply increased the pressure.
Wxllxce eventually removed us from being fellowship coordinators. He came to our home, sent my daughter to her room (Oh, yes HE did) and then sat just on the other side of the wall from where she was sitting and screamed at us at the top of his lungs. He shouted that if Geek didn't "get a passion for the truth," that Geek would "die a lonely old man," and that I would be "hobbled for life" and that our daughter would become a "stark, raving lunatic." My daughter was only 10 years old at the time she heard his words screamed through her bedroom wall.
She is now almost 21 years old, and recently told me that she is haunted by Wxllxce's "prophecy." She spent years worrying that her dad would die, that something awful would happen to me, and that she would go crazy. What Mxrk Wxllxce, a paid minister and representative of The Way International did to her-- he got paid by The Way International to do this to her and her family-- this has affected her severely. And one day when she is of age, she just might take him and them to task for it. What she decides to do about it when she becomes an adult is strictly up to her.
The straw that broke the camel's back for me was simple. As simple as Jxsephine Wxllxce undercutting my authority as a mother with my own child. I forbade my daughter from taking another piece of candy from a dish. Jxsephine told her to go ahead and take it anyway, right in front of me right after I said that. That was enough for me.
When we left fellowship that night, on the way home, I announced we were never going back, that I had had enough. My daughter was so upset (because she just KNEW NOW her Dad was GOING to die, that something awful WOULD happen to me, and then she WOULD be going crazy), she called Jxsephine as soon as we got home. I let her. I just let her. I didn't care what they thought, because I was done with them. Mark Wxllxce came by the next day and demanded we meet with him.
I keep wondering, why the hell did I go and meet with him if I was done? I dunno, just chalk it up to my even still feeling I was under some kind of spiritual obligation. (Hell, it's a cult, remember?) So, we all went. They again shut my daughter up in the next room while they screamed and yelled at us. Imagine the fear of a 10 year old girl who is having to listen to such tirades over the sound of the TV. To this day, I cannot stand "Charlotte's Web," the video they put on for her hoping to drown out their screaming. So AFTER I decided to leave, Wxllxce and TWI decided to put us on probation and then M&A us.
Manipulative?
Destroyers?
What do YOU think....
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