LOL - Howard came to Chicago in the early '80s - talked about toilet paper at an area meeting on the south side of Chicago - you can image how that went over. He also made this more than moronic comment - "Some of my best frieds are black" And this guy was BOT of a minstry that would save the world?
Sorry ranting now
He was talking about their hearts.
I left in 87. I refer to 86 as "The fall of 86"
POP started my having the guts to leave (I was 16).
But one day we got a tape from HQ called something like "Tape to corps" and it was Geer talking crazy and giving ultimatums. That tape did it for me.
But, honestly I was thinking about leaving for years before that. geer and Craig and VPW put the idea in my head by their actions and words.
As happy I am to have made that decision, I STILL have dreams about going back to ROA. I loved ROA but it was about friends, music and fun, not TWI.
I was wow in NY in 86. On my interm year. When the Clergy came back after the spring meeting they were all freaked out and very if I may put it mean. They were lableing everyone either walking in fellowship or pocessed by the devil. I had no time for such BS. That is when I left. Later (a year or so after I left) I found out about POP from an innie. That put 2 and 2 together for me. I did not know ALL about POP until I read it on Waydale. I just knew I did the right thing.
The Bear left sometime in 1987 , Happy Trails ? all that that changed is where the ABS was sent. The fellowship stuff was same do mannies, pass the horn act blessed .
I was at a corps week I think in 87 and heard Don Wierwille say the passing of the patriarch was a lie. and that everything was going to be OK from here on out.
It was like hearing the captain of the Titanic say "The pool is open"
and you know what's really weird. after listening to the tape, i started "sharing" at this corps meeting how guiltridden i felt after listening to the tape. yes even despising that evil bus driver, i was ready to buy into his crapola, such a good wayfer i was. then joe fair and ralph graham and nancy started saying to me, "you actually believe him?" dah dah dah and i lightbulb went off in my head for the first time in years
also around the time of poo poo prophecy i mentioned to craig it might be a good idea not to follow in veepee's steps when it comes to sexually healing the gals in the kingdom. i actually thought i was helping. boy did i get BLASTED
i forget what else. but i think it helped me a lot that many were leaving at the time because it made me a lot loss scared and guilty. i was so weary i remember that
I'm trying to think. Was that weird CG tape to the corps in 87? If it was, I was the only one in the room of 20 something corps who publically after listening to everyone say how great it was, gave a differing opinion. I said he was full of cr*p - literally. After that I was a marked woman. CG basically that year drew away all of NYC and the surrounding areas corps - VF was his representative in NY and he had gone totally into legalism. I had left in my heart. corps week 87 was so weird, I went back for one more time in '88 because my family was there. I think I left after the 2nd or 3rd day - just took one last look around, knew I was never coming back, and walked away.
It was hard for me because the NYC corps were totally enamored with CG, so I was ostracized by them, and I knew the LCM remnant were also full of it. Finally, one other corps person came to her senses and we became great friends walking in freedom and out of the stifling legalism.
(that's a joke, sunesis--to me, he was always like a roman catholic in twi clothing. i never understood what anyone saw in him, anyway. all i ever saw was a charisma-free, IQ-challenged, no-talent jerk. but he did his best to be a clone of vp, so i guess that was all he needed. that and his comb-over.)
Sprawled Out, I think VF's appeal was he was a streetwise Brooklyn punk - he was a tough guy - but funny and fun.
I liked him alot, we always got along great and joked around. That's why I was so disappointed to see the path he went down.
He went way overboard into legalism. I confronted him twice about it. After that we never talked. He has his own ministry now. It has gone into legalism.
He went way overboard into legalism. I confronted him twice about it. After that we never talked. He has his own ministry now. It has gone into legalism.
How do you overlook rape/adultry/misuse of authority, and still get into legalism? Or does he say he has changed?
Speaking of VF, he travelled with Takit? He was down in I think WV and met in some living room with other JNoisers. They went thru this little routine acting like they were coming up with the name for Takit. It was like they were trying to teach us progressive rev or something, but it seemed staged to me. Did anyone else have a meeting like that? I was always curious how many times they did that schtick.
you know, sunesis, it's a funny thing. being a new yorker, i remember expecting that he and i would get along--but in every dealing i had with him (and there were only a few) he was just a hard-nosed d!ck. he was never any fun--or funny--at all. in fact, he got on my case for being a "wisea**."
my impression was that he was trying real hard to escape his "old man nature," which is why it makes so much sense to me that he'd spin a legalism trip. seems to me, it's only the people who have been there (in the world, having fun, whatever you want to call it) who are so afraid they might go back that they get legalistic.
(of course, that's not the law, it's just an observation! some of us didn't go that route at all.)
There was no revelation in the name Takit. They brainstormed the name at H.Q. I was there for a bit in my last year in residence and I told VF after lunch one day I thought they should do a rock band to reach out to the kids. He thought it was a fabulous idea, conferred with other musicians, and the next week, announced the formation of the new group.
From what I understand, VF was not part of the adultery thing. There were a few top leadership (RD, VF, WM and others) who were never approached, they found out with the rest of us. I have a feeling that's why they were so angry when stuff came out. I can imagine if VP had approached their wives, they would have been confronted by some very angry men - I wouldn't want to p.o. RD, VF or some others I can think of.
VP was a predator, much of the time, a predator also knows who not to mess with.
I may be wrong, but it is my understanding they were not part of the inner "sex club."
I left in '89, but was watching closely since 87. Was kicked out, basically, for not responding to Craig's request to tell him who I "stood with"....
Sunesis, who is "WM"? I got ya on VF and RD, but WM? maybe you could "pm" me. And by the way, hi! Hope all is well. My whole famdamily is sick with the flu, little guys, everyone. But we will survive :)
I know a lot of people who are still in the Way . Like Rhoda and David Schmitt, and Bev Miller and Jerry Jantz and others I know of. The Way has their hard core. The Way is still around and belive or not making a come back. They are going to have specials in Texas this novermber. They have a new class on video on the Way to aboundance and power. The Stiles are still around I still talk to the Way. They told me they went back to the PFAL days and blended the Way of Abundance and Power classes together. I left in 2004 I couldn't go along with their teaching on devil spirits and Satan.
I know a lot of people who are still in the Way . Like Rhoda and David Schmitt, and Bev Miller and Jerry Jantz and others I know of. The Way has their hard core. The Way is still around and belive or not making a come back. They are going to have specials in Texas this novermber. They have a new class on video on the Way to aboundance and power. The Stiles are still around I still talk to the Way. They told me they went back to the PFAL days and blended the Way of Abundance and Power classes together. I left in 2004 I couldn't go along with their teaching on devil spirits and Satan.
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Georgio Jessio
He was talking about their hearts.
I left in 87. I refer to 86 as "The fall of 86"
POP started my having the guts to leave (I was 16).
But one day we got a tape from HQ called something like "Tape to corps" and it was Geer talking crazy and giving ultimatums. That tape did it for me.
But, honestly I was thinking about leaving for years before that. geer and Craig and VPW put the idea in my head by their actions and words.
As happy I am to have made that decision, I STILL have dreams about going back to ROA. I loved ROA but it was about friends, music and fun, not TWI.
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RumRunner
Just a thought about why people left at that time - South Side was kind of a different story. No need to drill deeper.
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justloafing
I was wow in NY in 86. On my interm year. When the Clergy came back after the spring meeting they were all freaked out and very if I may put it mean. They were lableing everyone either walking in fellowship or pocessed by the devil. I had no time for such BS. That is when I left. Later (a year or so after I left) I found out about POP from an innie. That put 2 and 2 together for me. I did not know ALL about POP until I read it on Waydale. I just knew I did the right thing.
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andy Bear
The Bear left sometime in 1987 , Happy Trails ? all that that changed is where the ABS was sent. The fellowship stuff was same do mannies, pass the horn act blessed .
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Dot Matrix
I left after the passing of the poo-poo was read, but had been retreating for about a year prior.
What year was that?
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Out There
I was at a corps week I think in 87 and heard Don Wierwille say the passing of the patriarch was a lie. and that everything was going to be OK from here on out.
It was like hearing the captain of the Titanic say "The pool is open"
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Dot Matrix
Hahahahaha
ROTFL
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excathedra
i'm not sure. i think that tape from psycho geer was also the last straw for me
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excathedra
and you know what's really weird. after listening to the tape, i started "sharing" at this corps meeting how guiltridden i felt after listening to the tape. yes even despising that evil bus driver, i was ready to buy into his crapola, such a good wayfer i was. then joe fair and ralph graham and nancy started saying to me, "you actually believe him?" dah dah dah and i lightbulb went off in my head for the first time in years
also around the time of poo poo prophecy i mentioned to craig it might be a good idea not to follow in veepee's steps when it comes to sexually healing the gals in the kingdom. i actually thought i was helping. boy did i get BLASTED
i forget what else. but i think it helped me a lot that many were leaving at the time because it made me a lot loss scared and guilty. i was so weary i remember that
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Dot Matrix
Didn't yo also confront VF and get blasted? You sure got beat up that last year or so.
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Sunesis
I'm trying to think. Was that weird CG tape to the corps in 87? If it was, I was the only one in the room of 20 something corps who publically after listening to everyone say how great it was, gave a differing opinion. I said he was full of cr*p - literally. After that I was a marked woman. CG basically that year drew away all of NYC and the surrounding areas corps - VF was his representative in NY and he had gone totally into legalism. I had left in my heart. corps week 87 was so weird, I went back for one more time in '88 because my family was there. I think I left after the 2nd or 3rd day - just took one last look around, knew I was never coming back, and walked away.
It was hard for me because the NYC corps were totally enamored with CG, so I was ostracized by them, and I knew the LCM remnant were also full of it. Finally, one other corps person came to her senses and we became great friends walking in freedom and out of the stifling legalism.
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excathedra
as screwed up as i was, i did try to speak up at times, believe it or not
because i'm like 2 people, one is outspoken and brave, and one is an f'd up child
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Dot Matrix
Sunesis
Do you hear that?
It is me applauding your efforts!
You go girl.
Ex
If I recall, and apparently i have to remember things for you - try Omgea oils it is good for memory :),
Just a joke.
You confronted a few "stars" of their day. I was always thinking, "Now, that took some guts."
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sprawled out
VF into legalism?? what a surprise!
(that's a joke, sunesis--to me, he was always like a roman catholic in twi clothing. i never understood what anyone saw in him, anyway. all i ever saw was a charisma-free, IQ-challenged, no-talent jerk. but he did his best to be a clone of vp, so i guess that was all he needed. that and his comb-over.)
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Sunesis
Sprawled Out, I think VF's appeal was he was a streetwise Brooklyn punk - he was a tough guy - but funny and fun.
I liked him alot, we always got along great and joked around. That's why I was so disappointed to see the path he went down.
He went way overboard into legalism. I confronted him twice about it. After that we never talked. He has his own ministry now. It has gone into legalism.
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rhino
How do you overlook rape/adultry/misuse of authority, and still get into legalism? Or does he say he has changed?
Speaking of VF, he travelled with Takit? He was down in I think WV and met in some living room with other JNoisers. They went thru this little routine acting like they were coming up with the name for Takit. It was like they were trying to teach us progressive rev or something, but it seemed staged to me. Did anyone else have a meeting like that? I was always curious how many times they did that schtick.
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sprawled out
you know, sunesis, it's a funny thing. being a new yorker, i remember expecting that he and i would get along--but in every dealing i had with him (and there were only a few) he was just a hard-nosed d!ck. he was never any fun--or funny--at all. in fact, he got on my case for being a "wisea**."
my impression was that he was trying real hard to escape his "old man nature," which is why it makes so much sense to me that he'd spin a legalism trip. seems to me, it's only the people who have been there (in the world, having fun, whatever you want to call it) who are so afraid they might go back that they get legalistic.
(of course, that's not the law, it's just an observation! some of us didn't go that route at all.)
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excathedra
yeah dottie i need fish oil or something
i did confront VF
and believe me i have no problem with new yorkers from brooklyn or wherever
he was such a d!ck
as sprawled out pointed out
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Sunesis
There was no revelation in the name Takit. They brainstormed the name at H.Q. I was there for a bit in my last year in residence and I told VF after lunch one day I thought they should do a rock band to reach out to the kids. He thought it was a fabulous idea, conferred with other musicians, and the next week, announced the formation of the new group.
From what I understand, VF was not part of the adultery thing. There were a few top leadership (RD, VF, WM and others) who were never approached, they found out with the rest of us. I have a feeling that's why they were so angry when stuff came out. I can imagine if VP had approached their wives, they would have been confronted by some very angry men - I wouldn't want to p.o. RD, VF or some others I can think of.
VP was a predator, much of the time, a predator also knows who not to mess with.
I may be wrong, but it is my understanding they were not part of the inner "sex club."
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templelady
Mentally left in 87
physically left in 89
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J0nny Ling0
I left in '89, but was watching closely since 87. Was kicked out, basically, for not responding to Craig's request to tell him who I "stood with"....
Sunesis, who is "WM"? I got ya on VF and RD, but WM? maybe you could "pm" me. And by the way, hi! Hope all is well. My whole famdamily is sick with the flu, little guys, everyone. But we will survive :)
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sprawled out
i wondered that, too. was it walter mondale?
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rhino
LOL, Mondale was what I came up with also ...
Walter Cu Mmins?
William, Walter, ... ummm
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PAULTONY
I know a lot of people who are still in the Way . Like Rhoda and David Schmitt, and Bev Miller and Jerry Jantz and others I know of. The Way has their hard core. The Way is still around and belive or not making a come back. They are going to have specials in Texas this novermber. They have a new class on video on the Way to aboundance and power. The Stiles are still around I still talk to the Way. They told me they went back to the PFAL days and blended the Way of Abundance and Power classes together. I left in 2004 I couldn't go along with their teaching on devil spirits and Satan.
I know a lot of people who are still in the Way . Like Rhoda and David Schmitt, and Bev Miller and Jerry Jantz and others I know of. The Way has their hard core. The Way is still around and belive or not making a come back. They are going to have specials in Texas this novermber. They have a new class on video on the Way to aboundance and power. The Stiles are still around I still talk to the Way. They told me they went back to the PFAL days and blended the Way of Abundance and Power classes together. I left in 2004 I couldn't go along with their teaching on devil spirits and Satan.
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