26And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. 27And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 29But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom. 30And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives.
i have two close friends one a jehovahs witness the other not,both had major operations
both refused to have blood.
my jehovahs witness friend is 75 yrs old she had major surgary, and the surgeon
was more than happy to operate on her. she was told she could loose alot of blood.
after the operation the surgeon came to her with a small medicine tot
he showed her how much blood she had lost 20ml..
my other friend who is not a jw had major heart surgery without blood.
that too was a success.
as i said you take your chance & i'll take mine.
"trust in jehovah with all your heart, and do not lean upon your own understanding" {pro 3:5}
starbird x x x
Your two friends were fortunate. I sincerely mean it when I say I hope you are as fortunate if you are ever faced with a similar situation.
But you still skirted my questions in my post. And questions in other people's posts. I believe you're not here for diaglogue but for preaching or for trolling purposes.
Noni - I love the little gif in your posts of the cat in the litterbox - LOL!
I know this because I was a JW.Born and raised in the cult.My Uncle died a year and a half ago from loss of blood.He lost 75% of his blood due to a bleed in his colon.He died because he refused blood and blood based products.He could have been saved by accepting one of these products now allowed by the JW's own Governing Body.He died at 56 years old.
Last I heard,
there was a time-period that the Watchtower Society (the JWs)
forbade organ transplants,
but they're ok now.
The strictest Jew following the most strict interpretations of the Mosaic Law,
and the Talmud and so on, WILL take a blood transfusion to say his life.
Supposedly, the restrictions governing transfusions are from the Old Testament.
If I understand correctly,
the current restrictions say that blood is forbidden to eat,
therefore it is also forbidden to transfuse to save a physical life,
and dying is superior to accepting a transfusion of blood.
Furthermore,
a transfusion of blood is forbidden,
but a transfusion of PART of the blood-
such as plasma or the like-
is PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE.
Now, I didn't see a distinction in the eating blood thing,
but apparently the Watchtower Society DOES.
And it's a very SELECTIVE ONE.
So,
"eating blood = transfusing blood.
No eating blood =no transfusing blood.
Transfusing PART of the blood= acceptable to God.
Transfusing ALL of the blood=\= acceptable to God.
(Based on "no eating blood.)
Eating nonkosher red meat=acceptable to God
(despite containing blood, moreso than kosher red meat even.)
Transplants=acceptable to God,
and before transplants =\= acceptable to God,
and that was based on this same rule of blood."
This "rule" is needlessly capricious.
It stops some lives from being saved,
makes distinctions so fine as to gag a lawyer,
and does not stay the same from year to year.
Now that we've had time to discuss it, I'm almost surprised twi
never assumed this ruletook when they were regulating everything else.
=======================
"Do not pass 'GO'. Do not collect 10% of my income."
It's a very simple "yes" or "no" question, Starbird.
"Yes" or "No"?
I don't know if you realize it, but you are merely repeating the same verses and the same example in each of your posts. This leads me to believe that you are only parroting what you've been taught and don't really understand it. That explanation also explains why you haven't addressed any of the points that have been raised on this thread.
Nor are you informed. The site I posted links to is run by ACTIVE JW's. Professionals in the medical field and others who see the danger, inconsistency and lack of logic regarding the JW legalism with regard to blood transfusions.
Who are we?
The Associated Jehovah's Witnesses for Reform on Blood is a diverse group of Witnesses from many countries. Some members are presently serving as elders and Hospital Liaison Committee members or have previously served in that capacity. Additionally, other members are from the medical field or have friends or relatives who are Witnesses. All have volunteered their time and energies in an effort to bring about an end to a tragic and misguided policy that has claimed thousands of lives, many of them children.
You might want to look at what your church presently considers acceptable, because you're either mis-representing the truth or you're grossly mis-informed.
The June 15, 2000 Watchtower "Questions from Readers" article announced that JWs may accept all blood products fractionated from primary components which continue to be banned. The WTS defines the primary components as white blood cells, red blood cells, platelets and plasma. Some brothers have justifiably been perplexed by such a policy, especially in light of the fact that the separate components of plasma are on the approved list, with the exception of water, and use of other blood fractions requires the collection and storage of huge quantities of blood. The new policy will permit JWs to use very large and essential blood products like hemoglobin which is by WTS definition a secondary blood product since it is fractionated from red cells.
These are some of the other teachings of JWs in times past. Could it be possible that what you've been taught about blood is one more in this list of erroneous, dangerous and deadly doctrines?
* Rabies doesn't exist - G23 1/1 p. 214
* Germs don't cause disease - G24 1/16 p. 250
* Vaccinations are useless - G31 2/4 p. 294
* Doctors are agents of Satan - G31 8/5 pp.727,728
so instead of giving links to other anti/ex jehovahs witness sites for information on
blood get it from the horses mouth..so to speak
Are you counting time trying to convert these people to the JW's?I can tell you it won't work your wasting your time.These people already know what it's like being in a cult they don't need or want another one.
Why don't you try talking instead of linking back the the bOrg information.Try telling them why you believe what you do.
Also ask your elders if it's ok for you to be posting on a web site filled with born again Christans.And a few EX JW's.
The JWs oft Quote Acts 15 v 20, a Bible book asddressed to the Church rather than the Israelites, which scripture tells us to avoid things polluted by idols, fornication, things strangled, and blood.
The JWs, thinking fornication a major sin therefore conclude that the matter of blood abstinance is of similar import, considering it is mentioned in the same scripture.
Acts 15 v 29 repeats the same admonishments, abstainance from things sacrificed to idols, fornication, blood and things strangled.
Any other scriptures listed by them are Old Testament and pertain to Mosaic Law and the pouring out and draining of blood before eating meat.
Clearly, as well, both scriptures in Acts, mentioning things "strangled" are referring to the same thing. The removal of blood from meat.
There is no scripture, of course, which mentions the transfussion of blood, or those fractions in blood which are acceptable to God, or not acceptable.
Those revelations the Watchtower leaders have therefore received pertaining to refusing blood transfussion must be that, a revelation from God instructing them that when the writer of acts said "abstain from blood" he meant not to accept blood transfussions.
Last I heard,
there was a time-period that the Watchtower Society (the JWs)
forbade organ transplants,
This is indeed true.
WT articles pertaining to that matter suggest that anyone who accepts a heart transplant will take on the personality traits of the donor.
Are you counting time trying to convert these people to the JW's?I can tell you it won't work your wasting your time.These people already know what it's like being in a cult they don't need or want another one.
Why don't you try talking instead of linking back the the bOrg information.Try telling them why you believe what you do.
Also ask your elders if it's ok for you to be posting on a web site filled with born again Christans.And a few EX JW's.
oh i have been talking you must of missed that...
i only linked to the ORG because someone put an ex jw link on
i'm not trying to convert anyone...not at all...
i believe what i do because i have been deeply involved wth other so called truths
i only linked to the ORG because someone put an ex jw link on
I missed it, too. Can you please show me where you've participated in the discussion - not where you've merely repeated what you heard and not where you've merely posted a link.
AND, AGAIN - That link is NOT an EX JW site.
AND, AGAIN - you still haven't answered the very simple "yes" or "no" question.
your own personal decision:...in these matters "each one will carry his own load" of responsability
{gal. 6:4,5}
blood fractions are elements from blood that are extracted through a process called frationation.
e.g plasma, one of the four major componants of blood, can be divided into the following
substances: water, about 91%; protiens, such as albumins, globumins and fibrinogen,
about 7%; and other substances, such as nutrients, hormones, gases, vitamins,
waste products, and electrolytes, about 1.5%
it cannot be said whether fractions are covered by the command to abstain from blood.
the bible does not give specific direction on the subject of fractions..many fractions are derived
from blood that has been donated for medical purposes.. it is up to each christian to make
a conscientious decision if they will decide to accept or reject the medical uses of these
substances.
albumin - up to 4% of plasma
a protein exracted from plasma. types of albumin are also found in plants, in foods such as
milk eggs and milk of a nursing mother.
albumin from blood is sometimes used in volume expanders to treat shock and severe
burns.
immunoglobulins - up to 3% plasma.
protein fractions that may be used to fight viruses and diseases, such as diptheria
clotting factors less than 1% of plasma there are certain kinds of proteins that help the blood clot in order to stop bleeding...some clooting factors are now made from non blood sources.
plasmapheresis..treats illness
blood is withdrawn and filtered to remove plasma. a plasma substitute is added and the
blood returned to the patient..some doctors may use the plasma from another person to replace
that from the patients blood this option would be unacceptable to a christian.
so the long and short of it is whole blood from another person is unacceptable
some other componants extracted from blood {ie non blood products}
that is up to the individual person..and their concsience..
oh belle the link you gave me about jw blood reform group..sorry but no jws involved in that
because the blood issue in their eyes dosnt need to be reformed as you can see
they are already aware of the facts..about blood..
I missed it, too. Can you please show me where you've participated in the discussion - not where you've merely repeated what you heard and not where you've merely posted a link.
AND, AGAIN - That link is NOT an EX JW site.
AND, AGAIN - you still haven't answered the very simple "yes" or "no" question.
someone put a link for the tower watch site that is a ex jw site..
how have i just repeated what i've heard ..its my belief...
obviously i'm going to write in a way thats in line with my belief.
i'm not going to write in a way thats not my belief am i.
i posted a link because the moderater told me not to quote things that may be copyright
but to put a link there...ok..my.. you have gone cocky since your friend showed up..
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The JWs sure do make a whole lot out of a couple of scriptures from the Bible.
Making the blood doctrine into an identifying truth /practise of the "true" end time church.
God Loves you too Dear Brother Roy, whose words are always an encouragement to all who read them.
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year2027
God first
Beloved Combination
God loves you my dear friend
thanks you made my day
I am glad you are here
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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Combination
Same here.
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cman
Why is it that when someone dies that there life is gone but they still have blood?
Same with animals?
What left them??
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cman
26And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. 27And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 29But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom. 30And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives.
is-third person singular of “to be”
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ChasUFarley
It's hard to "define" in medical terms what leaves people, but did you know that when someone dies, they loose 5 grams of weight?
What is "it"?
(Rhetorical question)
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ChasUFarley
Your two friends were fortunate. I sincerely mean it when I say I hope you are as fortunate if you are ever faced with a similar situation.
But you still skirted my questions in my post. And questions in other people's posts. I believe you're not here for diaglogue but for preaching or for trolling purposes.
Noni - I love the little gif in your posts of the cat in the litterbox - LOL!
Edited by ChasUFarleyLink to comment
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Bramble
Seems to me that blood transfusions added about 40 years to my husband's life so far. Why would your God be upset about that?
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Noni1974
Thanks it's my sandcastle kitty!!!
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WordWolf
Last I heard,
there was a time-period that the Watchtower Society (the JWs)
forbade organ transplants,
but they're ok now.
The strictest Jew following the most strict interpretations of the Mosaic Law,
and the Talmud and so on, WILL take a blood transfusion to say his life.
Supposedly, the restrictions governing transfusions are from the Old Testament.
If I understand correctly,
the current restrictions say that blood is forbidden to eat,
therefore it is also forbidden to transfuse to save a physical life,
and dying is superior to accepting a transfusion of blood.
Furthermore,
a transfusion of blood is forbidden,
but a transfusion of PART of the blood-
such as plasma or the like-
is PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE.
Now, I didn't see a distinction in the eating blood thing,
but apparently the Watchtower Society DOES.
And it's a very SELECTIVE ONE.
So,
"eating blood = transfusing blood.
No eating blood =no transfusing blood.
Transfusing PART of the blood= acceptable to God.
Transfusing ALL of the blood=\= acceptable to God.
(Based on "no eating blood.)
Eating nonkosher red meat=acceptable to God
(despite containing blood, moreso than kosher red meat even.)
Transplants=acceptable to God,
and before transplants =\= acceptable to God,
and that was based on this same rule of blood."
This "rule" is needlessly capricious.
It stops some lives from being saved,
makes distinctions so fine as to gag a lawyer,
and does not stay the same from year to year.
Now that we've had time to discuss it, I'm almost surprised twi
never assumed this ruletook when they were regulating everything else.
=======================
"Do not pass 'GO'. Do not collect 10% of my income."
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Belle
Welcome to the discussion, Noni and Combination!
Roy sure is someone special, isn't he?
It's a very simple "yes" or "no" question, Starbird.
"Yes" or "No"?
I don't know if you realize it, but you are merely repeating the same verses and the same example in each of your posts. This leads me to believe that you are only parroting what you've been taught and don't really understand it. That explanation also explains why you haven't addressed any of the points that have been raised on this thread.
Nor are you informed. The site I posted links to is run by ACTIVE JW's. Professionals in the medical field and others who see the danger, inconsistency and lack of logic regarding the JW legalism with regard to blood transfusions.
Source for above quote: The Associated Jehovah's Witnesses for Reform on BloodYou might want to look at what your church presently considers acceptable, because you're either mis-representing the truth or you're grossly mis-informed.
These are some of the other teachings of JWs in times past. Could it be possible that what you've been taught about blood is one more in this list of erroneous, dangerous and deadly doctrines?
edited because I can't spell "grossly"
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starbird
this is not an ex jw site...
so instead of giving links to other anti/ex jehovahs witness sites for information on
blood get it from the horses mouth..so to speak
jws and the blood issue
starbird x x x
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cman
so starbird,
you are promoting something you don't believe
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Belle
How about YOU address the issue since YOU raised it?
How about a DISCUSSION instead of just mimicking what you've heard or read?
How about addressing the points that have been raised on this thread? In YOUR OWN WORDS.
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Belle
It's STILL a "yes" or "no" question that you still haven't answered.
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WordWolf
Raised on page 1, and still not addressed except to say it was addressed while still
not actually ADDRESSING it.
That would be novel.
See,
this is a DISCUSSION forum.
We DISCUSS stuff here,
not just post links of OTHER people's opinions or discussions.
Dodging issues or ignoring them is not the same as DISCUSSING,
which is what we do here.
Links are fine as PARTS of discussion, but are not SUBSTITUTES for discussion.
(I really don't think I'm unreasonable when I say this, and I don't get why
some people think I am, unless their standards aren't reasonable.)
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Noni1974
Are you counting time trying to convert these people to the JW's?I can tell you it won't work your wasting your time.These people already know what it's like being in a cult they don't need or want another one.
Why don't you try talking instead of linking back the the bOrg information.Try telling them why you believe what you do.
Also ask your elders if it's ok for you to be posting on a web site filled with born again Christans.And a few EX JW's.
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Combination
The JWs oft Quote Acts 15 v 20, a Bible book asddressed to the Church rather than the Israelites, which scripture tells us to avoid things polluted by idols, fornication, things strangled, and blood.
The JWs, thinking fornication a major sin therefore conclude that the matter of blood abstinance is of similar import, considering it is mentioned in the same scripture.
Acts 15 v 29 repeats the same admonishments, abstainance from things sacrificed to idols, fornication, blood and things strangled.
Any other scriptures listed by them are Old Testament and pertain to Mosaic Law and the pouring out and draining of blood before eating meat.
Clearly, as well, both scriptures in Acts, mentioning things "strangled" are referring to the same thing. The removal of blood from meat.
There is no scripture, of course, which mentions the transfussion of blood, or those fractions in blood which are acceptable to God, or not acceptable.
Those revelations the Watchtower leaders have therefore received pertaining to refusing blood transfussion must be that, a revelation from God instructing them that when the writer of acts said "abstain from blood" he meant not to accept blood transfussions.
This is indeed true.
WT articles pertaining to that matter suggest that anyone who accepts a heart transplant will take on the personality traits of the donor.
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starbird
oh i have been talking you must of missed that...
i only linked to the ORG because someone put an ex jw link on
i'm not trying to convert anyone...not at all...
i believe what i do because i have been deeply involved wth other so called truths
to my dismay.. then found the real truth...
starbird
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Belle
I missed it, too. Can you please show me where you've participated in the discussion - not where you've merely repeated what you heard and not where you've merely posted a link.
AND, AGAIN - That link is NOT an EX JW site.
AND, AGAIN - you still haven't answered the very simple "yes" or "no" question.
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starbird
unacceptable to christians:
whole blood:
plasma:
your own personal decision:...in these matters "each one will carry his own load" of responsability
{gal. 6:4,5}
blood fractions are elements from blood that are extracted through a process called frationation.
e.g plasma, one of the four major componants of blood, can be divided into the following
substances: water, about 91%; protiens, such as albumins, globumins and fibrinogen,
about 7%; and other substances, such as nutrients, hormones, gases, vitamins,
waste products, and electrolytes, about 1.5%
it cannot be said whether fractions are covered by the command to abstain from blood.
the bible does not give specific direction on the subject of fractions..many fractions are derived
from blood that has been donated for medical purposes.. it is up to each christian to make
a conscientious decision if they will decide to accept or reject the medical uses of these
substances.
albumin - up to 4% of plasma
a protein exracted from plasma. types of albumin are also found in plants, in foods such as
milk eggs and milk of a nursing mother.
albumin from blood is sometimes used in volume expanders to treat shock and severe
burns.
immunoglobulins - up to 3% plasma.
protein fractions that may be used to fight viruses and diseases, such as diptheria
clotting factors less than 1% of plasma there are certain kinds of proteins that help the blood clot in order to stop bleeding...some clooting factors are now made from non blood sources.
plasmapheresis..treats illness
blood is withdrawn and filtered to remove plasma. a plasma substitute is added and the
blood returned to the patient..some doctors may use the plasma from another person to replace
that from the patients blood this option would be unacceptable to a christian.
so the long and short of it is whole blood from another person is unacceptable
some other componants extracted from blood {ie non blood products}
that is up to the individual person..and their concsience..
oh belle the link you gave me about jw blood reform group..sorry but no jws involved in that
because the blood issue in their eyes dosnt need to be reformed as you can see
they are already aware of the facts..about blood..
starbird x x x
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starbird
someone put a link for the tower watch site that is a ex jw site..
how have i just repeated what i've heard ..its my belief...
obviously i'm going to write in a way thats in line with my belief.
i'm not going to write in a way thats not my belief am i.
i posted a link because the moderater told me not to quote things that may be copyright
but to put a link there...ok..my.. you have gone cocky since your friend showed up..
starbird
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year2027
God first
Beloved starbird
God loves you my dear friend
Yes this is not a EX-JW sites its a EX-Way Ministry site that welcome EX-JW and acting JW and many others
I posted the links to the EX-JW sites they are my friends
while I was never in JW church I have listen to them given them a fare debate
I even try to post on acting JW sites and acting Way Ministry sites but I was show the door
I guess my beliefs make them no money because there beliefs seem more odd to me
like its better to die than take another person's blood
but have you not read what God told Peter
Acts 10:9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Look God told Peter to "Rise, Peter; kill, and eat."
nothing about cooking just rise and eat
but peter was used to drawing the blood then cooking so all the blood would be gone
but God said "Rise, Peter; kill, and eat."
not Rise, Peter; kill, drain blood, cook, and eat but "Rise, Peter; kill, and eat."
so either God left out part of the progress or we can add to the word
but if we add to the word we no longer have truth
so either eating is eating and blood transplants are blood transplants
both can not be the same words
I will end here
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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WordWolf
Just because she HAS friends (here) and you don't is no reason to be a'hatin'.
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