A local church of ours just lost a decent amount of money in a civil lawsuit filed by a woman who was "slain in the spirit" and severely injured as a result. Apparently they did the alter call or whatever it is called and she came up. While slain she fell backwards and there was no one there to catch her (supposedly there are usually people up at the alter to catch those who might fall), she hit her head and suffered a permanent brain damage.
The church did like TWI and blamed the woman, said she must have faked being slain for surely the spirit would not have allowed her to be injured. That was part of the lawsuit, the public "bashing" she received from the "minister."
In a sense, you do have to wonder - if one is slain in the spirit, truly, would God allow them to be injured? Yet who would risk, and ultimately suffer, permanent brain damage just so they could sue someone?
I want to live outside of the legalistic box but not at the expense of God's will.
With TWI one (invited to certain circles) had to pull their pants down.
Here it is the slain thing
Somewhere else it is handle snakes
Another cult has you were black dresses and not marry.
Another lets you marry all the woman you wish.
Seems everyone veers off course a bit.
I really like everything else at this place and I do think Joyce is the real deal.
I am either too shallow to see it, or too wise having been burned to try "anything"
I was tricked once before TWI actually. Where three of us prayed for God's direction. The room got lit up and a guy prophesied a FALSE prophecy. Took a while to figure it out. Then, came pentecostal churches, then TWI.
Evan, other cultures practice this?
Abi:
In a sense, you do have to wonder - if one is slain in the spirit, truly, would God allow them to be injured?
That is my take on it
Like God, who is all knowing, is going to slay you - to give you a blessing --- but he did not know you'd be injured?
The woman standing next to me, well there was nobody behind her. I told her, you do not have a catcher, you may want to sit down when he touches you so you do not get hurt.
She kinda snapped a little and told me God had it covered.
Thought you might find it interesting that the Pentacostal (Assemblies) Church I attended years ago didnt have a practice of slain in the spirit. personally I think its a harmless behaviour which neither degrades or harms anything about the Gospel.
Some charismatic churches have come under attack recently not so much for this practice but for healing practices. I am thinking of Benny Hinn ministries. There was a feature story on TV questioning his healings one time. Benny Hinn, as most of you might know, is a former protege of Cathryn Kuhlman. I have heard her old preaching a few times. I sincerely believe Cathryn had the gift of healing working in her ministry. I cant vouch for Benny because I know little about him. I do kind of like the person, Benny Hinn. I think he is an earnest and sincere man.
In my community, we have two real huge Assembly of God churches. In one of them, there is no such practice. In the other one, I have seen it happen but its very infrequent. I think there are probably great variation in assembly practice accross the board. When I say I didnt think it was harmful, there may be a church where it is, but i havent seen it.
I am not condoning the practice. I really dont know much about it. About all I can tell you is that I dont think its Assembly doctinal practice. Someone here mentioned somewhat that some people need emotional expereince , and that perhaps is what that is (for some) I cant rule out the concept from what I have heard from the former Cathyrn Kuhlman days as a realistic experience. From that perspective if someone expresses themselves that way, I just dont see how it harms anyone.
I am a Lutheran so I really cant give you advice to the specifics and was just trying to give you my two cents worth.
I am going to go, just not do anything I am not comfortable doing
Hey Dot,
Sounds like a great plan. Don't rule something out that may be a great blessing because VP taught it wasn't genuine. Don't think he had the goods to make such a judgment. But you're right to be cautious and take it slow. Sounds like the prophecy about the stuffed animals is a confirmation to not be afraid.
I went to a Pentecostal church for quite a while where this was common. The 1st meeting we went to there the worship was great, the teaching was great and then the pastor called people up to be ministered to for something (don't remember specifically what it was for) but people started falling, it was wild. Hubs and I looked at each other and said, it this the Holy Spirit and we both said, yes, this is for real.
So we took it slow, didn't go up for ministry for quite a while, just observed. But things were getting fixed in both of us just from being there and watching. It was amazing. I felt things coming off of me, like shame and fear.
There was one night when there was a prayer line and I went up. Bennie Henn's wife was ministering and I was standing at the altar with a big crowd of others. I couldn't see where she was but when she got close to where I was in the line I could "feel" her annointing. It was intense. I started trembling. But it I knew it was the real deal because I still couldn't see where she was. She touched me and I went down like a shot. I didn't stay out long but when I got up I was so "drunk" I could hardly walk. I started to get up and I fell down on the nearest chair. It felt so good I can hardly describe it.
I know that even in that church many times people went down because it was expected, it's called a courtesy drop. But I didn't go up for prayer every time there was a prayer line,and I think I only fell down two or three times. I wasn't going to just fall, but if the Holy Spirit wanted to put me on the floor I wasn't going to resist though.
I was in another meeting at another church where the speaker was ministering on going "in the spirit". There was an incredible atmosphere of heaven in the place. People were having visions of heaven all over the place. I went down when he touched me on the forehead, but I didn't see a vision. But when I got up I started giggling. It wasn't uncontrollable laughter, but just like joy. I staggered back to my seat, having to sit down several times along the way. At the end of the service I was still so "drunk" that I didn't want to drive home. I had to wait a while to get back to my car. I wonder if you can get ticketed or arrested for driving under the influence of the Holy Spirit.
I think God allows us to take part in some of these experiences to get a little taste of the atmosphere of heaven.
I will also say that I am very cautious about who I will let touch me in a prayer line.
So Dot, you're right to be cautious, you don't have to do anything you don't feel comfortable doing, but don't let fear keep you away from something genuine. You'll know.
II Chronicles 5:10 (NASB)
and when they praised the Lord saying, "He indeed is good, for His lovingkindness is everlasting." then the house, the house of the Lord, was filled with a cloud,
So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled the house of God.
Haggai 2:9 (NASB)
The latter glory of this house will be greater than the former, says the Lord of hosts.
Hebrews 3:6
but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
Getting knocked out is an experience that would put your problems on the back burner so to speak. Kind of like what sky is saying.
It's like a stubbed toe and a car wreck, which would make you forget the other?
Also there is this freedom to let all your emotions out in a group that isn't paying attention to you. Emotions are powerful and spiritual. I think the emotion of fear has a lot to do with this 'slain in the spirit' deal. And of acceptance.
In the spirit is something I believe. Being slain in the spirit is something that has that label, but what it is can vary imo.
Sounds like a great plan. Don't rule something out that may be a great blessing because VP taught it wasn't genuine.
I do not consider myself a follower of VP.
It was confusing as that is what we were taught, but I have since looked it up all over the net and it seems like the church arguments against it are stronger than the arguments for the whole experience.
Yes, I am still going as it is close to what I believe in all other aspects. Thanks for your sharing
Sorry Dot, I knew that, it was late last night when I posted, didn't mean to imply that you are.
It's just that I know I was convinced that those who practice this were "operating devil spirits" because of what I was taught in TWI and thus was very careful about exposing myself to it. Still am.
It was confusing as that is what we were taught, but I have since looked it up all over the net and it seems like the church arguments against it are stronger than the arguments for the whole experience.
Yes, I am still going as it is close to what I believe in all other aspects. Thanks for your sharing
I dont quite know what to think of this whole idea of "slain in the spirit" where people fall down and twitch and such. The jury is still out for that one in my mind. I do however find that the stories and experiences that you are sharing here are quite inspirational. I really love the stuffed toy story. Wow!
I truly shy away from churches of any kind, and it is not entirely twi's fault. The church that I grew up in had as much to do with that phobia as anything twi did. But as I said in another thread, for the first time in nearly 20 years I am considering (seriously) going to church. Maybe this Saturday after work they have a service.
I went to a Pentecostal church for quite a while where this was common. The 1st meeting we went to there the worship was great, the teaching was great and then the pastor called people up to be ministered to for something (don't remember specifically what it was for) but people started falling, it was wild. Hubs and I looked at each other and said, it this the Holy Spirit and we both said, yes, this is for real.
So we took it slow, didn't go up for ministry for quite a while, just observed. But things were getting fixed in both of us just from being there and watching. It was amazing. I felt things coming off of me, like shame and fear.
There was one night when there was a prayer line and I went up. Bennie Hinn's wife was ministering and I was standing at the altar with a big crowd of others. I couldn't see where she was but when she got close to where I was in the line I could "feel" her annointing. It was intense. I started trembling. But it I knew it was the real deal because I still couldn't see where she was. She touched me and I went down like a shot. I didn't stay out long but when I got up I was so "drunk" I could hardly walk. I started to get up and I fell down on the nearest chair. It felt so good I can hardly describe it.
The other thing I should mention about this church is that when we started going there I had been trying for years to have another child. I was emotionally wounded because I had a series of miscarriages and wanted very badly to have another baby. I received the healing there that I needed to give birth to our wonderful daughter, Aimee. She is truly a gift from God.
Well, I do not know where you are but I can give you a link to the one I went to and see if they have something if the one you are considering is not "it" for you.
W & W
WOW, I am blown away by the pain you went through and the greatness of God. Thanks for sharing that.
They had a Pentecostal experience in 1907 at one of their regular "Deeper Spiritual Life" conventions. Olivia and her husband Mr. Bruce worked with the Duncans in their ministry. They were helping to serve in the convention when the Spirit of God fell. Olivia's husband cried out for Olivia to come because her cousin Marguerite was speaking in tongues. She was busy and almost put it off until God said "You'll be sorry if you do not go." She dropped everything and went. The Spirit of God was hitting people throughout the room when she got there. She too came under the presence of God and fell to the floor. She was hit with holy laughter and then began to sing.
People received visions, sang in the Spirit, fell under the power of God, and saw angels. Their newly established training center became a key training ground for new Pentecostal leaders. Over the life of the school over 400 missionaries were trained. Elizabeth, who had been the leader of the group unexpectedly died in 1915. Susan, Hattie, Mary, and Mary's daughter Olivia continued the work, with even greater success as the Pentecostal outpouring spread across the country. God had them close the school in the early 1920's and move to a smaller facility in preparation for their own home-going. In 1924 Elim Memorial Church was founded and by 1935 they had sent out over sixty missionaries. The sisters and their faith community had given over $100,000 to missions. Christ was their all for body, soul and spirit.
My wife and I attended a local group for awhile, non-Wayfer background. Nice folks. They had a "healing" service once after a meeting and they were doing the whole deal where they lined up catchers or whatever in a row and people lined up and were prayed for, but each one got this kind of *knock* on the forehead and they fell backwards and then walked away, presumably a tad giddy but none the worse for wear. Or better for the knock. Nobody got healed of anything that I saw or heard.
What was a surprise was, that I didn't know they did the head knocking thing, and my wife went to be prayed for and when I saw what was going on, I watched a bit bemused. It was stupid, from where I sat. I guess if you didn't fall backwards, you'd get another knock as it seemed to be a kind of tug of war when she was there. I was about to put a stop to it when they gave up.
I really had to ask the "pastor" what he thought they were doing. After a mile of mumbo jumbo, he pretty much had to admit they were performing a ritual, an order of service - line 'em up, whack 'em, sack 'em and then lead them off. They thought maybe something would "happen" if they did the right things. But there was nothing happening. Nada. Zipski. Ero-zay.
I don't trust any of the modern day telescandalist stuff that goes on. Benny Hinn should be taken out back and whacked. Okay, with a paint gun. But it should be enamel paint, in the hair.
ON an entirely diferent note - I read a long time ago, can't remember the book's name (somebody whack me on the head, it might come back) about Rufus Mosely. He was apparently an estastic, something of a mystic by some definitions. He lived to be "in the Lord", a state where he was in the power of the spirit. He would shake and have strong physical reactions sometimes when he preached. Interesting.
I've never been comfortable with the slain in the spirit and other things.
For me, I have to look at the example of Christ.
When he taught, did he shake, and have ecstatic experiences in front of the crowd? Did he knock them down?
When he taught, did the crowds fall down, roll, bark, shake, etc.?
The only time he dealt with barking or out control people, he threw the devil spirit out and people found the person calm, and in their right mind. But they were calm, not shaking or rolling after being ministered to by the Lord.
Look at the Son of God, Christ, God's heart to us. I think our answer lies there.
I'm pretty sure what you've got Dot, are people acting out their emotional state, be it excitement, fear, joy, etc.
I can't say for sure that there's no legit physical responses like the falling down, knocked out, jumping around stuff.
The idea that a person is overtaken by the spirit of God and actively controlled doesn't stack up with what I read in the bible. Some motivated inspiration or coming together of circumstances I can see, to the end a person is compelled to choose a particular action, but I would always assume a person has to be make the choice and then act on their inspiration. So a person may feel an overwhelming sense of joy or realization. How they respond is up to them. What would be the correct response? I can certainly see times when a person simply wants to "let go" and jump for joy! But there's a fine line between that and orchestrating behavior according to some expectation that's being taught or copied.
Like Mosely. I don't really know if that's the way he acted but it was said he did. I can think of a lot of reasons why he may have chosen to act that way, based on the inspiration he actually been experienced but I couldn't assume it was truly "the spirit" taking hold of him. It may have been he was unable to direct what he felt in any other way. Dunno.
Thought I would add--familiar ritual ( like a liturgy)that involves music, rhythmic, repetitious beats or movement, repeated sing song chorus/rounds(what Wiccans would call chants), have all been used to induce trance states. People often feel peaceful, relaxed and happy after a trance experience.
The Jesus forty days in the wilderness record...sounds alot like a vision quest/shamanic/ecstatic type vision inducing experience. Food and water deprivation, sleep deprivation, solitude...known to move practitioners into deeper trance states.
Mama rocking the fretting baby to sleep, singing a lullaby over and over...could be a much needed light trance state for both.
Coming back to Tommy Tyson, his spiritual hero was Rufus Moseley, a kind of Protestant Francis of Assisi, from Georgia. One night Rufus was praying while contemplating Jesus upon the cross. While deep in prayer he felt his arms being lifted up until he was in the form of a cross, too. But when this was happening, he started weeping with joy. So surprised was Rufus that he asked Jesus why he should be so joyful while praying about Jesus’ sufferings. Jesus responded with what Rufus later called “The Reverse Side of the Cross”:
He had suffered upon a cross of pain to put us upon a cross of joy.
That he had died feeling abandoned by his Father,
That we might know his Father’s love.
That he had died giving up his spirit,
That we might be filled with his Holy Spirit.
Again he did not lift his arms he FELT them being lifted....
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Abigail
A local church of ours just lost a decent amount of money in a civil lawsuit filed by a woman who was "slain in the spirit" and severely injured as a result. Apparently they did the alter call or whatever it is called and she came up. While slain she fell backwards and there was no one there to catch her (supposedly there are usually people up at the alter to catch those who might fall), she hit her head and suffered a permanent brain damage.
The church did like TWI and blamed the woman, said she must have faked being slain for surely the spirit would not have allowed her to be injured. That was part of the lawsuit, the public "bashing" she received from the "minister."
In a sense, you do have to wonder - if one is slain in the spirit, truly, would God allow them to be injured? Yet who would risk, and ultimately suffer, permanent brain damage just so they could sue someone?
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Dot Matrix
The law office, for which I worked, had a woman slain sueing her "catcher" as well, as she fell backwards and was injured
He did not catch her
There were more women on the floor than men.
I looked around and most of the people who DID NOT fall out were the 50+ crowd.
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Dot Matrix
I want to live outside of the legalistic box but not at the expense of God's will.
With TWI one (invited to certain circles) had to pull their pants down.
Here it is the slain thing
Somewhere else it is handle snakes
Another cult has you were black dresses and not marry.
Another lets you marry all the woman you wish.
Seems everyone veers off course a bit.
I really like everything else at this place and I do think Joyce is the real deal.
I am either too shallow to see it, or too wise having been burned to try "anything"
I was tricked once before TWI actually. Where three of us prayed for God's direction. The room got lit up and a guy prophesied a FALSE prophecy. Took a while to figure it out. Then, came pentecostal churches, then TWI.
Evan, other cultures practice this?
Abi:
That is my take on it
Like God, who is all knowing, is going to slay you - to give you a blessing --- but he did not know you'd be injured?
My God is bigger than that.
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Dot Matrix
The woman standing next to me, well there was nobody behind her. I told her, you do not have a catcher, you may want to sit down when he touches you so you do not get hurt.
She kinda snapped a little and told me God had it covered.
I thought, "Sure."
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sky4it
Thought you might find it interesting that the Pentacostal (Assemblies) Church I attended years ago didnt have a practice of slain in the spirit. personally I think its a harmless behaviour which neither degrades or harms anything about the Gospel.
Some charismatic churches have come under attack recently not so much for this practice but for healing practices. I am thinking of Benny Hinn ministries. There was a feature story on TV questioning his healings one time. Benny Hinn, as most of you might know, is a former protege of Cathryn Kuhlman. I have heard her old preaching a few times. I sincerely believe Cathryn had the gift of healing working in her ministry. I cant vouch for Benny because I know little about him. I do kind of like the person, Benny Hinn. I think he is an earnest and sincere man.
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Dot Matrix
There is an Assembly of God church here.
About 1999 I worked with a guy who told me the whole church was knocked out for about 45 minutes with the presence of the Lord.
I told him I thought it was not of God but the devil and he stopped talking to me. :unsure:
Sky
How is it harmless when "something" is knocking you out?
I maybe shallow, taught wrongly, but I just do not SEE it as an act of God-- yet everything else was big giant fruit bearing trees at this church.
So, maybe I am wrong.
Thus my confusion
edited for another typo
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sky4it
DotMatrix:
In my community, we have two real huge Assembly of God churches. In one of them, there is no such practice. In the other one, I have seen it happen but its very infrequent. I think there are probably great variation in assembly practice accross the board. When I say I didnt think it was harmful, there may be a church where it is, but i havent seen it.
I am not condoning the practice. I really dont know much about it. About all I can tell you is that I dont think its Assembly doctinal practice. Someone here mentioned somewhat that some people need emotional expereince , and that perhaps is what that is (for some) I cant rule out the concept from what I have heard from the former Cathyrn Kuhlman days as a realistic experience. From that perspective if someone expresses themselves that way, I just dont see how it harms anyone.
I am a Lutheran so I really cant give you advice to the specifics and was just trying to give you my two cents worth.
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wrdsandwrks
Hey Dot,
Sounds like a great plan. Don't rule something out that may be a great blessing because VP taught it wasn't genuine. Don't think he had the goods to make such a judgment. But you're right to be cautious and take it slow. Sounds like the prophecy about the stuffed animals is a confirmation to not be afraid.
I went to a Pentecostal church for quite a while where this was common. The 1st meeting we went to there the worship was great, the teaching was great and then the pastor called people up to be ministered to for something (don't remember specifically what it was for) but people started falling, it was wild. Hubs and I looked at each other and said, it this the Holy Spirit and we both said, yes, this is for real.
So we took it slow, didn't go up for ministry for quite a while, just observed. But things were getting fixed in both of us just from being there and watching. It was amazing. I felt things coming off of me, like shame and fear.
There was one night when there was a prayer line and I went up. Bennie Henn's wife was ministering and I was standing at the altar with a big crowd of others. I couldn't see where she was but when she got close to where I was in the line I could "feel" her annointing. It was intense. I started trembling. But it I knew it was the real deal because I still couldn't see where she was. She touched me and I went down like a shot. I didn't stay out long but when I got up I was so "drunk" I could hardly walk. I started to get up and I fell down on the nearest chair. It felt so good I can hardly describe it.
I know that even in that church many times people went down because it was expected, it's called a courtesy drop. But I didn't go up for prayer every time there was a prayer line,and I think I only fell down two or three times. I wasn't going to just fall, but if the Holy Spirit wanted to put me on the floor I wasn't going to resist though.
I was in another meeting at another church where the speaker was ministering on going "in the spirit". There was an incredible atmosphere of heaven in the place. People were having visions of heaven all over the place. I went down when he touched me on the forehead, but I didn't see a vision. But when I got up I started giggling. It wasn't uncontrollable laughter, but just like joy. I staggered back to my seat, having to sit down several times along the way. At the end of the service I was still so "drunk" that I didn't want to drive home. I had to wait a while to get back to my car. I wonder if you can get ticketed or arrested for driving under the influence of the Holy Spirit.
I think God allows us to take part in some of these experiences to get a little taste of the atmosphere of heaven.
I will also say that I am very cautious about who I will let touch me in a prayer line.
So Dot, you're right to be cautious, you don't have to do anything you don't feel comfortable doing, but don't let fear keep you away from something genuine. You'll know.
II Chronicles 5:10 (NASB)
and when they praised the Lord saying, "He indeed is good, for His lovingkindness is everlasting." then the house, the house of the Lord, was filled with a cloud,
So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled the house of God.
Haggai 2:9 (NASB)
The latter glory of this house will be greater than the former, says the Lord of hosts.
Hebrews 3:6
but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
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cman
Getting knocked out is an experience that would put your problems on the back burner so to speak. Kind of like what sky is saying.
It's like a stubbed toe and a car wreck, which would make you forget the other?
Also there is this freedom to let all your emotions out in a group that isn't paying attention to you. Emotions are powerful and spiritual. I think the emotion of fear has a lot to do with this 'slain in the spirit' deal. And of acceptance.
In the spirit is something I believe. Being slain in the spirit is something that has that label, but what it is can vary imo.
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Dot Matrix
I do not consider myself a follower of VP.
It was confusing as that is what we were taught, but I have since looked it up all over the net and it seems like the church arguments against it are stronger than the arguments for the whole experience.
Yes, I am still going as it is close to what I believe in all other aspects. Thanks for your sharing
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wrdsandwrks
Sorry Dot, I knew that, it was late last night when I posted, didn't mean to imply that you are.
It's just that I know I was convinced that those who practice this were "operating devil spirits" because of what I was taught in TWI and thus was very careful about exposing myself to it. Still am.
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Eyesopen
I dont quite know what to think of this whole idea of "slain in the spirit" where people fall down and twitch and such. The jury is still out for that one in my mind. I do however find that the stories and experiences that you are sharing here are quite inspirational. I really love the stuffed toy story. Wow!
I truly shy away from churches of any kind, and it is not entirely twi's fault. The church that I grew up in had as much to do with that phobia as anything twi did. But as I said in another thread, for the first time in nearly 20 years I am considering (seriously) going to church. Maybe this Saturday after work they have a service.
Thanks all for sharing.
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wrdsandwrks
The other thing I should mention about this church is that when we started going there I had been trying for years to have another child. I was emotionally wounded because I had a series of miscarriages and wanted very badly to have another baby. I received the healing there that I needed to give birth to our wonderful daughter, Aimee. She is truly a gift from God.
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Dot Matrix
Eyes wide
Well, I do not know where you are but I can give you a link to the one I went to and see if they have something if the one you are considering is not "it" for you.
W & W
WOW, I am blown away by the pain you went through and the greatness of God. Thanks for sharing that.
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Dot Matrix
This was interesting:
Mary E. Work and Olivia Work Bruce
http://healingandrevival.com/BioMEWork.htm
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socks
My wife and I attended a local group for awhile, non-Wayfer background. Nice folks. They had a "healing" service once after a meeting and they were doing the whole deal where they lined up catchers or whatever in a row and people lined up and were prayed for, but each one got this kind of *knock* on the forehead and they fell backwards and then walked away, presumably a tad giddy but none the worse for wear. Or better for the knock. Nobody got healed of anything that I saw or heard.
What was a surprise was, that I didn't know they did the head knocking thing, and my wife went to be prayed for and when I saw what was going on, I watched a bit bemused. It was stupid, from where I sat. I guess if you didn't fall backwards, you'd get another knock as it seemed to be a kind of tug of war when she was there. I was about to put a stop to it when they gave up.
I really had to ask the "pastor" what he thought they were doing. After a mile of mumbo jumbo, he pretty much had to admit they were performing a ritual, an order of service - line 'em up, whack 'em, sack 'em and then lead them off. They thought maybe something would "happen" if they did the right things. But there was nothing happening. Nada. Zipski. Ero-zay.
I don't trust any of the modern day telescandalist stuff that goes on. Benny Hinn should be taken out back and whacked. Okay, with a paint gun. But it should be enamel paint, in the hair.
ON an entirely diferent note - I read a long time ago, can't remember the book's name (somebody whack me on the head, it might come back) about Rufus Mosely. He was apparently an estastic, something of a mystic by some definitions. He lived to be "in the Lord", a state where he was in the power of the spirit. He would shake and have strong physical reactions sometimes when he preached. Interesting.
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Sunesis
I've never been comfortable with the slain in the spirit and other things.
For me, I have to look at the example of Christ.
When he taught, did he shake, and have ecstatic experiences in front of the crowd? Did he knock them down?
When he taught, did the crowds fall down, roll, bark, shake, etc.?
The only time he dealt with barking or out control people, he threw the devil spirit out and people found the person calm, and in their right mind. But they were calm, not shaking or rolling after being ministered to by the Lord.
Look at the Son of God, Christ, God's heart to us. I think our answer lies there.
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Dot Matrix
I am not comfortable with it either. Yet, everything else is so healing at this church....
Are there any charasmatics who do not do these things?
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socks
I'm pretty sure what you've got Dot, are people acting out their emotional state, be it excitement, fear, joy, etc.
I can't say for sure that there's no legit physical responses like the falling down, knocked out, jumping around stuff.
The idea that a person is overtaken by the spirit of God and actively controlled doesn't stack up with what I read in the bible. Some motivated inspiration or coming together of circumstances I can see, to the end a person is compelled to choose a particular action, but I would always assume a person has to be make the choice and then act on their inspiration. So a person may feel an overwhelming sense of joy or realization. How they respond is up to them. What would be the correct response? I can certainly see times when a person simply wants to "let go" and jump for joy! But there's a fine line between that and orchestrating behavior according to some expectation that's being taught or copied.
Like Mosely. I don't really know if that's the way he acted but it was said he did. I can think of a lot of reasons why he may have chosen to act that way, based on the inspiration he actually been experienced but I couldn't assume it was truly "the spirit" taking hold of him. It may have been he was unable to direct what he felt in any other way. Dunno.
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Bramble
Some other religions practice ecstatic trance states, IMO slain in the spirit could be a version of that.
What to the participants feel is the benefit, what is their experience? Does it draw them closer to God, do they gain wisdom or insight?
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Bramble
Thought I would add--familiar ritual ( like a liturgy)that involves music, rhythmic, repetitious beats or movement, repeated sing song chorus/rounds(what Wiccans would call chants), have all been used to induce trance states. People often feel peaceful, relaxed and happy after a trance experience.
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Bramble
And another thing
, IMO.
The Jesus forty days in the wilderness record...sounds alot like a vision quest/shamanic/ecstatic type vision inducing experience. Food and water deprivation, sleep deprivation, solitude...known to move practitioners into deeper trance states.
Mama rocking the fretting baby to sleep, singing a lullaby over and over...could be a much needed light trance state for both.
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TheInvisibleDan
I find that a good healthy dosage of music by THE MONKS - played LOUD - is perfect for moving my spirit and limbs into a frenzied trance of ectasy.
It's pure Rock & Roll.
I highly recommend it.
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Dot Matrix
Here is a little something on Rufus --
Again he did not lift his arms he FELT them being lifted....
Is this free will violation?
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