I've Always Liked John Schoenheit

[Sweetpea]

Let us remember that most of these leaders in TWI never really held a real job in the real world. The reality that they would have to stand up against the board of trustees meant that their families would be cast out into the real world and have to start from nothing was terrifying to say the least.

John was very bold with his paper. But let us remember that we do not know how much these leaders knew and what they did not know. And remember that they were subject to many things in their leadership positions. They are only people as we are.

I think we forget that confronted with these things, we might have done similar things.

It makes me wonder if we can ever measure up to anyone's standards. Give John some slack.

Edited April 22, 2007 by Sweetpea

[excathedra]

okay i'm sorry i was a big jerk

my point was more about a mindset than a person

again, i'm sorry

[RainbowsGirl]

I am glad that John Shoenheit had the courage to confront and to exposed the "Sodom and Gomorrah" of our time TWI.... God in his way will torch it's empty hull.

[dmiller]

I am glad that John Shoenheit had the courage to confront and to exposed the "Sodom and Gomorrah" of our time TWI.... God in his way will torch it's empty hull.

For those who haven't read or seen it --- THE ADULTERY PAPER

by John Schoenheit can be read here, at GSC.

In an extra comment to those found on the opening page,

I can add that *leadership* (back then), made the claim that ---

"If you read this paper, you will get possessed."

Lovely, eh?? Last I heard from twi about this particular subject was ---

Ya gotta open up your mind to them (devil spirits) before they (devil spirits) can *come in*.

Well -- whoop-tee-dooo. Here's an excerpt that leads to *possession* ---

From the above evidence it can be seen that the men of the Old Testament

did not live in a society where they had vast sexual freedom.

Yes, they could have more than one wife, while we today in the Grace Administration cannot.

Although the reasons why God allowed more than one wife in the Old Testament but only allows one wife today may not be clear,

one thing is clear: The Word of God does say that today, in the Grace Administration,

marriage is to be monogamous.

Having sexual intercourse with a woman who is not your wife is a sin.

Yup -- you just got pozzezzed by reading that there.

No wonder the *fine folks* at Hdqtrs got out of the sack, to denounce this paper.

(edited to add *devil spirits* in the sentence after "Lovely, eh??"

Edited April 23, 2007 by dmiller

[excathedra]

i can't remember, did he write that paper while the one-eyed bandit was still alive ?

[dmiller]

From the comments section, written by John S. ---

My paper is quite accurately presented here in WayDale.

I wrote in through the summer of 1986 and handed it in to the research department in September of 1986.

As it is here in WayDale it is missing the preface and the footnotes.

The preface gives some of the history of the paper and how it came to be.

The footnotes are for the most part acedemic and not substantive.

If anyone wants a copy of the paper in the form I origianlly handed it in they can e-mail me.

I have always given it to anyone who asked me for a copy. The thesis is pretty simple: adultery is a sin.

As someone in this string has said, you should be able to see that for yourself in the Word.

Unfortunately, and history bears this out, some pretty high-powered churchmen throughout the years

have not really gotten the impact of what the Bible plainly says, and in this case the research seemed necessary.

John Schoenheit

[excathedra]

when did veepee kick the bucket ?

[dmiller]

May 20th, 1985

[excathedra]

thanks, d

wonder if shoenheit knew adultery was wrong when the bastad was alive ha !

again sowwy

he was probably scared of or deceived or whatever by the big mogman like i was

but HE was ordained !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha

thanks, d

wonder if shoenheit knew adultery was wrong when the bastad was alive ha !

again sowwy

he was probably scared of or deceived or whatever by the big mogman like i was

but HE was ordained !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha

---

ohmygod it's established it must be right

[GrouchoMarxJr]

...and the funny part is that twi shot itself in the foot by making a big deal out of it and firing Shoenheit...

...they could have easily buried it by letting it "lay on the desk" with numerous other research papers that never saw the light of day...but NOOOOOOOOO...their arrogance led them to make a big deal out of it. They felt that John had confronted them and they were not about to let it slide...

...The rest is history.

[excathedra]

big snort

what a buncha losers

why was that anyway ? why did they get mad ? was geer behind it ? walter ? craigo ?

i can't remember

was it because he did a research paper without a stamp ?

damn what was all the hoopla about ?

[dmiller]

why was that anyway ? why did they get mad ? was geer behind it ? walter ? craigo ?

i can't remember

was it because he did a research paper without a stamp ?

damn what was all the hoopla about ?

If I recollect correct -- lcm was in *charge* at the time.

but --- that was also the time frame when he, Don, and Howard were issuing *apologies*

for their *possession*, as noted by CG.

I'm guessing they didn't want the apple cart to be upset.

(Just my imo).

[GrouchoMarxJr]

Let's see how much of this I remember...

...The paper was turned into Walter (head of the dept.)...and then Walter presented it to the board of trustees and made the comment that "this paper could cause some trouble" or something to that effect...

King okie (whom I'm sure took it quite personally), jumped all over it and decided to make a big deal out of it...

Shoenheit wouldn't back down and had made the decision to mail it out to as many twi leaders as possible in case he was fired...he was and it was...

Supposedly...anyone who even read the paper was instantly fired...I know of one guy in particular, an ordained clergymen from the 6th corps (region leader), who never even read it but passed it along to others whom he thought might be interested in the subject matter...was fired on the spot...and this guy was a top shelf leader!...his name was Bob M*rab**o...if you knew him, you know what I'm talking about.

Edited April 23, 2007 by GrouchoMarxJr

[dmiller]

Thank you Groucho. :)

[johniam]

Being on the field, we all heard that the paper named names and read like a tabloid. At least, that's what I heard from the last twig leader I had in TWI. Then I read it on waydale. Didn't name names; came off to me as an extended word study on adultery. Before that I was willing to give TWI the benefit of any doubt about the alleged sex scandal stuff. That discrepancy was really the first clue I had that..."somebody's got to be a LIAR"!

[notinKansasanymore]

John Schoenheit is one of the finest and most honest people I've ever met in my life. Or will ever meet.

[VeganXTC]

I really don't understand the hub-bub about John Schoenheit. When I was talking with people who fellowship with CES, and telling them what was going on with the personal prophecy, I heard many times about how John Schoenheit wrote this wonderful book, and he studied all about it, and how great it was that John S. was with CES, blah, blah, blah.

He's not a bad guy, that I know of, and he's obviously smarter than the average Joe, but really, what has he done to deserve all this adoration? Write a paper saying adultry is wrong? Write a book on personal prophesy? Is that all it takes? Or has he done something, anything, besides just being a nice guy, that I don't know about?

[notinKansasanymore]

What's special about Shoenheit?

Hmmm. Even when there's something in it for him, he won't compromise what he believes the Bible to say.

He has been through some of the same things a lot of us went through with TWI, but he's still swinging away at the goal of the Word over the World. He won't give up, just because Weirwille turned out to be a charlatan.

He's a total Boy Scout. Pure hearted. Brain the size of Alaska. All grown up, and still believes that God has a calling for his life, and that his life makes a difference. He hasn't given up, and probably never will.

I've just gotta love that about him.

He's also a perfect gentleman.

He's by no means the only wonderful guy that went through TWI, but in my opinion, he's one of the two or three front-runners.

[dmiller]

I really don't understand the hub-bub about John Schoenheit. When I was talking with people who fellowship with CES, and telling them what was going on with the personal prophecy, I heard many times about how John Schoenheit wrote this wonderful book, and he studied all about it, and how great it was that John S. was with CES, blah, blah, blah.

He's not a bad guy, that I know of, and he's obviously smarter than the average Joe, but really, what has he done to deserve all this adoration? Write a paper saying adultry is wrong? Write a book on personal prophesy? Is that all it takes? Or has he done something, anything, besides just being a nice guy, that I don't know about?

Vegan -- Hey there. :) John S. is a real person.

Nother words --- he has no agenda like some do.

From my perspective -- he lives to learn and teach the Bible.

He doesn't aspire to greatness. He seems to be happiest with a bunch of research books in front of him,

and not some adoring congregation (like some other folks that we know of).

One of his more poignant teachings (yes -- on a tape from CES) is:

The Last Week Of Christ's Life.

If you would like a copy of it, PM me with your address, and I'll send you a copy.

CES allows reproduction of whatever info they send out, so it's not *stealing* to send it to you.

This is one teaching that absolutely *knocked my socks off*.

When John teaches -- he's not promoting CES or any other ministry.

He promotes God's Word, and he has the gift for doing it for any and all listening.

Let's just say his enthusiasm for God's Word is contagious!! ;)

[excathedra]

i guess i fail in the enthusiasm department

[Son of the Master]

No you don't. You are wonderful!

[excathedra]

mwah !

[caribousam]

The one time I met him, during a singles camp for CES Memorial Day of 2000, I thought he was cool too. He really tried to lead people to a personal walk, AND PARTICIPATION.... without his own agenda. I always liked his teaching style too. I'm the type where my mind really wanders if it's a boring teaching, and he always kept my interest.

I hesitate going into this on this board, because I don't want this to turn into a bash thread, but I putting it delicatly, I always thought JAL was a much better writer than teacher. When I bought the original CES tapes, 7years back, Discovering God's Word, JAL did most of the verbal teaching on tape, and man, what can I say...someone needs to lovingly tell that guy his calling aint in verbal teaching. I would skip all his, and dig out Schoenheits, and the others before I could listen to JAL. Not being mean. Or I'm not trying to anyway. It's just I don't think his calling was for verbal teachings.

I always thought if I would take a "Holy Land Tour" I would love it to be with JS

hey rottie,

I agree with that. JAL is an excellent writer, but not so great of a speaker.

I've always enjoyed hearing JS teaching on tape/CD or in person. He is good at it, very knowledgeable, not dull.

CS