Amen to not needing an organization to believe God and to help people.
But you should read through some of these forums before posting general statements like what you have said here.
I thought like you at first, everything isn't all what twi said it was.
And I don't believe every effect in the world has a cause behind it that comes from a spiritual source. Life is not all cut and dry like the way told us. There is nothing in the Word that says this, it was "wayspeak."
There was nothing wrong with wearing sackcloth and ashes. Many men of God did this as a sign of grief or humility. It doesn't mean they left the Word.
The reason we are here is to get answers and to get help.
But you are welcome here, keep your ears and eyes open.
I was became involved with The Way Ministry back in 1974 and voluntarily left it in August 1978 after completing the Advanced Class at Emporia Kansas. How I got involved, and when I left was God inspired. I believed this fact back then, and to this day, I still believe it.
I knew early on that my involvement in The Way Ministry would only last to the extent where I could learn all I could, and that one day I would know without any doubt the exact day I would leave. It all happened exactly as I knew within my heart that it would. I knew that The Way Ministry did not teach 100% accuracy.
However, I knew without a doubt that what I would learn from The Way Ministry would be by far more than what I would learn at any "religious" so-called Christian, denominational church or group. I saw the frailties of The Way. VPW also saw those frailities. People worshipped VPW more than they worshipped God.
This was wrong. I was witness to those teachings by VPW where he pounded the podium and reminded people that it is not VPW, or LCM, or silly hypothetical names he mentioned. He emphatically reminded people that "It's the Word and nothing but the Word!! Now if he plagerized, then so what?! What matters is that during the time that I was involved with The Way, VPW and many of the other teachers at that time, including LCM, made that Word living and real for me.
My experience with The Way gave me foundation in my life. I learned many positive things from the man, VPW and others, such as Cummins, Bo Rheard (spelling?), Del Duncan, Donny Fuget, Dubofsky, Lynn, Townsend and the list goes on. I heard the Words and I did eat them as the passage states. To this day, all I see are people that blame men and 5 senses issues. Blame the friggin' devil and his host for tricking these men to the point where it brought that ministry to its knees.
Yea....shame on them for listening to the fiery darts and acting on them. Shame on all who ignored the very essence of God's Word, and were tricked into anger and hostility of what men did or didn't do. God through His son and our Lord, Saviour and King Jesus Christ did not let us down; nor did God's Word let us down. Those out there that have run off wounded from their horrible experiences that they had while in The Way, need to stop wearing sack cloth and ashes and come back to God and His Word.
VPW and all the leadership of The Way were people...and you know what God's Word has to say about flesh!! Remember the good that was taught and hold onto the good. Remember the statement, "Behind every effect in the world there is a cause and the cause is always spiritual"? Take it to heart! Look at the behavior of Peter---denying Jesus Christ 3 times....and he was an apostle!
Look who Jesus Christ chose to communicate the great Mystery?!!--Paul, who killed and imprisoned believers before he was given the revelation on the road to Damascus!! I can go on and on concerning my heart on this matter. We are living in very profound times! The problem with most was that they considered themselves as "members" of an organization more than considering themselves as part of the Body of Christ.
The real mission for all of us was the same mission that Jesus Christ gave to his disciples, and that was to go out into the world and shine as lights in the world and feed the Word to those that God brings into your lives that are hungering and thirsting after righteousness. You don't need to be a member of an organization for that, for you are an important part of the Body of Christ. Read Ephesians chapters 1-3 to remind yourself of what God has done in your life!
MagnumsTwin -- Welcome to GreaseSpot Cafe. :)
I had to break that up into paragraphs (for these old eyes) to read.
Hope you don't mind -- I did quote you verbatim.
Polar Bear made a couple of good suggestions and comments.
May I offer some coffee for you, while you look at the forums here??
Greetings to you in the name of Jesus Christ my lord.
I have recently taken the Way International's new foundational class entitled, "The way of abundance and power". If it were available our father in the word, Dr Victor Paul Wierwille would have turned over in his grave.
I was born again of God's spirit October, 10th 1979,spoke in tongues 3 months later, took Power for Abundant living in 1983, and was in the way corps, but failed to graduate. Then left the Way, but failed to reinstate my fellowship with God.
Recently, as I was watching a minister on TV, it was clear that God was calling me back home, then in February I contacted the Way thinking that it was home to Gods people, I was wrong. Although there may be some there who truly love God and His word but are still stifled from speaking up when the spirit of God in them yells at them to do the right thing!
My web search turned up the grease spot, and I thought I'd add a bit.
For those of us operating the 9 manifestations of the spirit it is clear as a bell how headquarters has turned from the living God to idols and opened the door for devil spirits to enter in and take control.
During the class which I graduated I almost got up and walked out when David Chavisty began to teach at the 8th session, but I decided to give the people there the benefit of the doubt and sit through the 8th-12th sessions by basically ignoring the teaching and reading my Bible.
I prayed to God to continue to protect me from the doctrines of devils and open my eyes to see the picture being presented, and He did.
During my 3 years in the way corps, I was out of fellowship with God, and none of my leaders had the ability to get me back there!
Reverend M$rt$dale got busted screwing other women a number of years ago, and the media got wind of the last one when he was still president and threatened to expose the Way as a fake. The Way then "paid off" the people suing them for defamation of character, in order to keep the sin of Cr$$g quiet. This is bribery in the basic biblical sense and opens the door for the host of heaven to enter in to rack and ruin Gods precious people.
My fellowship coordinator has definite spiritual problems and wants to control my life free time and try to distract me with service to the ministry instead of the full sharing mentioned in acts and Ephesians, and I don’t want to continue with these spiritual whores.
Also, ironically, Dr. Wierwilles book, "Power for Abundant Living " is no longer available at the WAY and they left out 4 crucified in the class; amongst many other things. They breezed through the high points of Dr.s class like they weren’t important anymore, that their new research is the REAL truth!
They cut the time from the 68 class of 36 hours down to 24 hours using scripture of course for the change, the good old brevity of time reason, lol. And the reason or as I put it "the excuse to slap God and his son Jesus Christ in the face", is that they have "new research"!!!! You tell me, what is wrong with Dr. Wierwilles class of 1967-68? Yup you tell me, not just whine about how Dr. got his information.
A term, which is used very very frequently in the new class, is "tremendous"
Here’s what my 1936 thesaurus defines "tremendous" as-fearful, dreadful, terrible, See fear.
Fear-timidity, mistrust, suspicion, apprehesion, dread, terror, trepidation, bullying, terrorism...you get the point.
My 1996 Webster’s thesaurus on tremendous is quite different; hence the way Satan has changed language to further promote his control over Gods people.
96 thesaurus on tremendous-Extremely large, huge, large, or vast slang wonderful.
You tell me, why should it be so extraordinary the God as our Father would want to communicate with us and bless us with all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies in Christ? Or that we can heal people like the lame man in Acts 3? If we think that these are things that only the men of God of old did and it is not available because it is so "tremendous", then we are indeed tying Gods hands and the work of his son Jesus Christ was for naught.
BUT, this is not the case my brothers and sisters, I encourage you to speak in tongue much much more, for Paul stated in I Corinthians 14:18 I thank my God, I speak in tongues more than ye all.
And as you all know it was he who received the revelation of the great mystery, hmmmm might there be a key here?
God magnified His word above all His name, not the way's collaterals!
Read the book! Read the book! Read the book!
Do you remember the home study lessons from the video class of 1967-68?
The first 2 home study sessions were reading and rereading Ephesians, and Ephesians 6:10-24 session3. Session 4 was Romans chapter 12. 5-9 on the power for abundant living book. 10-13 on receiving the holy spirit today.
Like I stated above, POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE AT THE WAY!!!!! WHY?????
Oh, and they went through all of the publications and "updated them", how they have done this I haven’t dug into yet, it should be an interesting venture.
The God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ honors believing, and I believe.
Make no mistake about it! I am what I am, I have what I have and I will be what I will be NOT by what I have done or will do, but by what Jesus did for me by his torture and death, by the ultimate price that he paid. He loved life and really didn’t want to go through what he did.
But God raised him from the dead!
We have been given this awesome time of the ages to live in, the age of grace, but the New Testament in printed form before us, and because of Dr. wierwille, the understanding of the powerful word of God.
However, I knew without a doubt that what I would learn from The Way Ministry would be by far more than what I would learn at any "religious" so-called Christian, denominational church or group. I saw the frailties of The Way. VPW also saw those frailities. People worshipped VPW more than they worshipped God.
This was wrong. I was witness to those teachings by VPW where he pounded the podium and reminded people that it is not VPW, or LCM, or silly hypothetical names he mentioned. He emphatically reminded people that "It's the Word and nothing but the Word!! Now if he plagerized, then so what?! What matters is that during the time that I was involved with The Way, VPW and many of the other teachers at that time, including LCM, made that Word living and real for me.
My experience with The Way gave me foundation in my life. I learned many positive things from the man, VPW and others, such as Cummins, Bo Rheard (spelling?), Del Duncan, Donny Fuget, Dubofsky, Lynn, Townsend and the list goes on. I heard the Words and I did eat them as the passage states. To this day, all I see are people that blame men and 5 senses issues. Blame the friggin' devil and his host for tricking these men to the point where it brought that ministry to its knees.
Yea....shame on them for listening to the fiery darts and acting on them. Shame on all who ignored the very essence of God's Word, and were tricked into anger and hostility of what men did or didn't do. God through His son and our Lord, Saviour and King Jesus Christ did not let us down; nor did God's Word let us down. Those out there that have run off wounded from their horrible experiences that they had while in The Way, need to stop wearing sack cloth and ashes and come back to God and His Word.
There is really TOO much to address here, and it has all been done so before.
You've mentioned good points, bad points, moot points, inconsequential points, and for what??
Please read the forums here of first hand experiences that resulted in *sackcloth and ashes*.
I'm glad you had a good experience -- getting in, and out, at the *ordained* time.
Most of us weren't that *lucky*, like you were.
Perhaps this should really be discussed in the ABOUT THE WAY Forum -- but ---
I would like to address this statement you made ---
Blame the friggin' devil and his host for tricking these men to the point where it brought that ministry to its knees.
When Balaam was about to *chastise* his donkey (gotta use that word here instead of @$$) ----
Did the angel blame the devil, or Balaam?
Numbers 7: 21-34
When David was confronted by Nathan, Nathan confronted David -- not the devil.
II Samuel 12: 1 ff
(should I continue into the New Testament for further examples??)
The evil these men did was confronted, and THEY were held to be accountable.
That which is being leveled against docvic, lcm, etc., here at the GSC has little difference.
We are NOT playing God, yet we ARE holding men accountable for what they have done.
Granted -- they were exposed to the *fiery darts*, and by their acquiescence to them,
they hurt a lot of folks (as in the biblical records mentioned -- and others not mentioned).
They are to be blamed -- just like the *figures of old*.
Just like I would be -- if I were in their shoes.
The hurt that many here have experienced doesn't easily go away.
Looking for *closure* (if you will), is a healing process.
I'm one of the one's here who have seen some good out of the twi years.
But by the same token -- my life got hijacked. I'll never get it back.
And My Story is one of the *tame ones* to what you can read here.
And yes -- plagiarism IS A VERY BIG DEAL.
To steal and sell another man's work as your own,
is wrong in ANY PERSON'S BOOK, regardless of results realized.
Docvic came with a set of *packaged goods*, and pawned them off on us.
Yea -- I agree with some of it (more than most here will do),
BUT THE MAIN REASON I DO SO IS ----
It's my opinion he got it from VALID TEACHERS.
If you read here at the Cafe, you will soooooo many discussions about how
he docvic (excuse me -- that's my term for *dr*. wierwille),
has done all he could, to facilitate an easier life for himself.
I'm not kidding. I wish I was.
(My tombstone should read --
I wish I was the kidder I knew to be). <_<
FWIW -- I'm willing to blame the devil.
But I'm ALSO willing to hold folks accountable.
Especially if they are *leaders*.
Especially if they purport to *teach God's Word*.
And especially if they ruin and wreak havoc in the lives of their followers, in the process.
Again -- Welcome to GreaseSpot Cafe.
Sorry for the rant -- it's not typical that you get it from me,
but it's commentary/life as we know it, here at GSC.
My humble opinion, base on some experience, not as much as some and maybe little more than others.
If healing is really what we are trying achieve then after we get weary of kickin arses at some point we have to give up the flesh and blood battle. Yeah there are certain principles that get certain results! Handling injustice, real and perceived has always been a big roadblock for me. If there is one profound example that I have learned (still learning) from the the sacrifice of Jesus. It's not living a sinless life, being baptized, or crucified. How could someone die to save the very people who had done more injustice to him than anything we will ever know. Did he heal? Beyond our wildest imagination. Not his will but his Father's will. I guess that means he had to disregard what he wanted and felt in order for all of us to be healed. To the flesh that makes no sense at all. But the results are undeniable!
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polar bear
Amen to not needing an organization to believe God and to help people.
But you should read through some of these forums before posting general statements like what you have said here.
I thought like you at first, everything isn't all what twi said it was.
And I don't believe every effect in the world has a cause behind it that comes from a spiritual source. Life is not all cut and dry like the way told us. There is nothing in the Word that says this, it was "wayspeak."
There was nothing wrong with wearing sackcloth and ashes. Many men of God did this as a sign of grief or humility. It doesn't mean they left the Word.
The reason we are here is to get answers and to get help.
But you are welcome here, keep your ears and eyes open.
PB
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excathedra
welcome magnums twin
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dmiller
MagnumsTwin -- Welcome to GreaseSpot Cafe. :)
I had to break that up into paragraphs (for these old eyes) to read.
Hope you don't mind -- I did quote you verbatim.
Polar Bear made a couple of good suggestions and comments.
May I offer some coffee for you, while you look at the forums here??
Again welcome to the site.
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waysider
Hiya, Mag Twin
Plagerism really is quite a serious issue, especially when it is done to deceive God's people.
I encourage you to spend a bit of time looking at some of the info that is available here for newcomers.
If nothing else, step over to "The Reading Room" and play a little "Name That Tune" with us.
Welcome to GSC!!
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Preacher
Greetings to you in the name of Jesus Christ my lord.
I have recently taken the Way International's new foundational class entitled, "The way of abundance and power". If it were available our father in the word, Dr Victor Paul Wierwille would have turned over in his grave.
I was born again of God's spirit October, 10th 1979,spoke in tongues 3 months later, took Power for Abundant living in 1983, and was in the way corps, but failed to graduate. Then left the Way, but failed to reinstate my fellowship with God.
Recently, as I was watching a minister on TV, it was clear that God was calling me back home, then in February I contacted the Way thinking that it was home to Gods people, I was wrong. Although there may be some there who truly love God and His word but are still stifled from speaking up when the spirit of God in them yells at them to do the right thing!
My web search turned up the grease spot, and I thought I'd add a bit.
For those of us operating the 9 manifestations of the spirit it is clear as a bell how headquarters has turned from the living God to idols and opened the door for devil spirits to enter in and take control.
During the class which I graduated I almost got up and walked out when David Chavisty began to teach at the 8th session, but I decided to give the people there the benefit of the doubt and sit through the 8th-12th sessions by basically ignoring the teaching and reading my Bible.
I prayed to God to continue to protect me from the doctrines of devils and open my eyes to see the picture being presented, and He did.
During my 3 years in the way corps, I was out of fellowship with God, and none of my leaders had the ability to get me back there!
Reverend M$rt$dale got busted screwing other women a number of years ago, and the media got wind of the last one when he was still president and threatened to expose the Way as a fake. The Way then "paid off" the people suing them for defamation of character, in order to keep the sin of Cr$$g quiet. This is bribery in the basic biblical sense and opens the door for the host of heaven to enter in to rack and ruin Gods precious people.
My fellowship coordinator has definite spiritual problems and wants to control my life free time and try to distract me with service to the ministry instead of the full sharing mentioned in acts and Ephesians, and I don’t want to continue with these spiritual whores.
Also, ironically, Dr. Wierwilles book, "Power for Abundant Living " is no longer available at the WAY and they left out 4 crucified in the class; amongst many other things. They breezed through the high points of Dr.s class like they weren’t important anymore, that their new research is the REAL truth!
They cut the time from the 68 class of 36 hours down to 24 hours using scripture of course for the change, the good old brevity of time reason, lol. And the reason or as I put it "the excuse to slap God and his son Jesus Christ in the face", is that they have "new research"!!!! You tell me, what is wrong with Dr. Wierwilles class of 1967-68? Yup you tell me, not just whine about how Dr. got his information.
A term, which is used very very frequently in the new class, is "tremendous"
Here’s what my 1936 thesaurus defines "tremendous" as-fearful, dreadful, terrible, See fear.
Fear-timidity, mistrust, suspicion, apprehesion, dread, terror, trepidation, bullying, terrorism...you get the point.
My 1996 Webster’s thesaurus on tremendous is quite different; hence the way Satan has changed language to further promote his control over Gods people.
96 thesaurus on tremendous-Extremely large, huge, large, or vast slang wonderful.
Wonderful-extraordinary, marvelous, astonishing, amazing, remarkable, astounding.
You tell me, why should it be so extraordinary the God as our Father would want to communicate with us and bless us with all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies in Christ? Or that we can heal people like the lame man in Acts 3? If we think that these are things that only the men of God of old did and it is not available because it is so "tremendous", then we are indeed tying Gods hands and the work of his son Jesus Christ was for naught.
BUT, this is not the case my brothers and sisters, I encourage you to speak in tongue much much more, for Paul stated in I Corinthians 14:18 I thank my God, I speak in tongues more than ye all.
And as you all know it was he who received the revelation of the great mystery, hmmmm might there be a key here?
God magnified His word above all His name, not the way's collaterals!
Read the book! Read the book! Read the book!
Do you remember the home study lessons from the video class of 1967-68?
The first 2 home study sessions were reading and rereading Ephesians, and Ephesians 6:10-24 session3. Session 4 was Romans chapter 12. 5-9 on the power for abundant living book. 10-13 on receiving the holy spirit today.
Like I stated above, POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE AT THE WAY!!!!! WHY?????
Oh, and they went through all of the publications and "updated them", how they have done this I haven’t dug into yet, it should be an interesting venture.
The God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ honors believing, and I believe.
Make no mistake about it! I am what I am, I have what I have and I will be what I will be NOT by what I have done or will do, but by what Jesus did for me by his torture and death, by the ultimate price that he paid. He loved life and really didn’t want to go through what he did.
But God raised him from the dead!
We have been given this awesome time of the ages to live in, the age of grace, but the New Testament in printed form before us, and because of Dr. wierwille, the understanding of the powerful word of God.
Continue to read the book.
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dmiller
You've mentioned good points, bad points, moot points, inconsequential points, and for what??
Please read the forums here of first hand experiences that resulted in *sackcloth and ashes*.
I'm glad you had a good experience -- getting in, and out, at the *ordained* time.
Most of us weren't that *lucky*, like you were.
Perhaps this should really be discussed in the ABOUT THE WAY Forum -- but ---
I would like to address this statement you made ---
When Balaam was about to *chastise* his donkey (gotta use that word here instead of @$$) ----
Did the angel blame the devil, or Balaam?
Numbers 7: 21-34
When David was confronted by Nathan, Nathan confronted David -- not the devil.
II Samuel 12: 1 ff
(should I continue into the New Testament for further examples??)
The evil these men did was confronted, and THEY were held to be accountable.
That which is being leveled against docvic, lcm, etc., here at the GSC has little difference.
We are NOT playing God, yet we ARE holding men accountable for what they have done.
Granted -- they were exposed to the *fiery darts*, and by their acquiescence to them,
they hurt a lot of folks (as in the biblical records mentioned -- and others not mentioned).
They are to be blamed -- just like the *figures of old*.
Just like I would be -- if I were in their shoes.
The hurt that many here have experienced doesn't easily go away.
Looking for *closure* (if you will), is a healing process.
I'm one of the one's here who have seen some good out of the twi years.
But by the same token -- my life got hijacked. I'll never get it back.
And My Story is one of the *tame ones* to what you can read here.
And yes -- plagiarism IS A VERY BIG DEAL.
To steal and sell another man's work as your own,
is wrong in ANY PERSON'S BOOK, regardless of results realized.
Docvic came with a set of *packaged goods*, and pawned them off on us.
Yea -- I agree with some of it (more than most here will do),
BUT THE MAIN REASON I DO SO IS ----
It's my opinion he got it from VALID TEACHERS.
If you read here at the Cafe, you will soooooo many discussions about how
he docvic (excuse me -- that's my term for *dr*. wierwille),
has done all he could, to facilitate an easier life for himself.
I'm not kidding. I wish I was.
(My tombstone should read --
I wish I was the kidder I knew to be). <_<
FWIW -- I'm willing to blame the devil.
But I'm ALSO willing to hold folks accountable.
Especially if they are *leaders*.
Especially if they purport to *teach God's Word*.
And especially if they ruin and wreak havoc in the lives of their followers, in the process.
Again -- Welcome to GreaseSpot Cafe.
Sorry for the rant -- it's not typical that you get it from me,
but it's commentary/life as we know it, here at GSC.
David
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jeast
Please take this as intended, only to be helpful.
My humble opinion, base on some experience, not as much as some and maybe little more than others.
If healing is really what we are trying achieve then after we get weary of kickin arses at some point we have to give up the flesh and blood battle. Yeah there are certain principles that get certain results! Handling injustice, real and perceived has always been a big roadblock for me. If there is one profound example that I have learned (still learning) from the the sacrifice of Jesus. It's not living a sinless life, being baptized, or crucified. How could someone die to save the very people who had done more injustice to him than anything we will ever know. Did he heal? Beyond our wildest imagination. Not his will but his Father's will. I guess that means he had to disregard what he wanted and felt in order for all of us to be healed. To the flesh that makes no sense at all. But the results are undeniable!
Peace and mercy to us all,
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nyunknown
Welcome twins! You are amoung friends here. Anyone who got out of That cult the TWI is a friend of mine!
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