twi, Word-Faith, other guys

[WordWolf]

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/hinn/general.htm

right, I'm also thinking they're dangerous too. (Benny Hinn being a more obvious example) They come from the same barrel wierwille did. I believe some are arguing Paula white, joyce meyer, osteen, (even oprah) teach this. Bad behavior stems from bad doctrine doesn't it?

Hmmm........

============

"Benny Hinn was born in 1953 in Israel to a Greek father and an Armenian mother. He was raised in the Greek Orthodox [false] religion. Hinn claims that while he was a young boy of 11 years of age in Israel, God first appeared to him, and has been appearing to him ever since. At the age of 14, Hinn moved to Canada with his parents. While attending high school there, he says he had visions of himself preaching before huge crowds. He also claims that God healed him of a stuttering problem so that he could become a preacher.

Yet in spite of the visions and God's appearing to him for several years, Hinn marks the year of his being born again as 1972 when he was about 20 years old. It was at a Kathryn Kuhlman service the following year that he says he had a "profound spiritual experience."

Hinn readily admits that much of the misunderstanding that has arisen from his teachings is the result of his lack of formal Bible training. In fact, almost immediately after his having been "born again," Hinn says, "The Lord launched me into ministry almost overnight."

"Although Hinn states that his ministry throughout the 1970s was shaped by the writings of men like D.L. Moody and R.A. Torrey, he was a strong proponent of "revelation knowledge" -- new truths revealed to him by God directly -- that were not contained within Scripture. Only recently has he stated that he will no longer claim revelation knowledge as the authority for his teachings. [see the end of this report of Hinn once again claiming revelation knowledge]."

=============

Sounds vaguely familiar....

Hmmm........

============

"Benny Hinn was born in 1953 in Israel to a Greek father and an Armenian mother. He was raised in the Greek Orthodox [false] religion. Hinn claims that while he was a young boy of 11 years of age in Israel, God first appeared to him, and has been appearing to him ever since. At the age of 14, Hinn moved to Canada with his parents. While attending high school there, he says he had visions of himself preaching before huge crowds. He also claims that God healed him of a stuttering problem so that he could become a preacher.

Yet in spite of the visions and God's appearing to him for several years, Hinn marks the year of his being born again as 1972 when he was about 20 years old. It was at a Kathryn Kuhlman service the following year that he says he had a "profound spiritual experience."

Hinn readily admits that much of the misunderstanding that has arisen from his teachings is the result of his lack of formal Bible training. In fact, almost immediately after his having been "born again," Hinn says, "The Lord launched me into ministry almost overnight."

"Although Hinn states that his ministry throughout the 1970s was shaped by the writings of men like D.L. Moody and R.A. Torrey, he was a strong proponent of "revelation knowledge" -- new truths revealed to him by God directly -- that were not contained within Scripture. Only recently has he stated that he will no longer claim revelation knowledge as the authority for his teachings. [see the end of this report of Hinn once again claiming revelation knowledge]."

=============

Sounds vaguely familiar....

For those who missed the similarities I saw, they are, in order...

A) a claim to have been marked out for God at a young age.

B) a claim of a special vision for God- which completely failed to transform his life and ministry

C) lack of formal Bible training, but God supposedly selected HIM

D) a claim to have received direct revelation not contained in Scripture

Edited May 20, 2007 by WordWolf

[WordWolf]

These doctrines might be everywhere, but what made TWI unique was the way those scripture/doctrines were expounded upon. The way in which TWI expounded on these scriptures is/was unique to TWI, but then, you're going to find that in just about every charsimatic movement. For example some have found more insight and help understanding the law of believing through the Kenneth Hagin ministries (i.e. the Word/Faith movement) than they did in TWI, and they also think that those teaching were stolen by VPW.

I agree- plagiarized error is no less error than the original error,

and who plagiarizes it doesn't make it any LESS error.

So, it was error when Kenyon taught it, it was error when vpw plagiarized Kenyon,

it was error when Hinn plagiarized Kenyon, and so on.

Critics have claimed that Hagin never received any formal theological training, and they also allege that the bulk of his theological teachings were lifted verbatim from the writings of other authors, i.e. John A. MacMillan and E.W. Kenyon for example. Hagin's response was he had not plagiarized anyone, but his acknowledgment of MacMillan had been an oversight. He then implicitly claimed the plagiarism was proof his teaching and MacMillan's teaching were from God.

Hagin HAS had no formal theological training. He has not even received a Bachelors or Masters in

Theology, let alone any formal study of Bible languages or history.

I also agree trying to absolve plagiarism-and claim accuracy- by clever words and

lying about their BEING plagiarism in no way absolves plagiarism, neither does it

prove accuracy. Even if a lot of people taught the same thing as Hinn, a lot of

people can be wrong. "Vox populi" is not a God-given measure of truth.

Author Judith Irene Matta, M.Th., has also accused Hagin of reviving the heresy of gnosticism. Matta asserts that Kenyon's word of faith movement has basically taken over the pentecostal churches and Christian television. ... The alleged heresy is, according to Matta, lifted verbatim from Kenyon's book.

I think gnosticism has remained around and was still around before Kenyon spread his version

of it as the precursor to the Word-Faith movement. Further, the feel-good aspect of it for

the wealthy and the financially-affluent - "if I am successful, it is because I earned it through

my faith and positive believing, and those who suffer earned their suffering through their

doubt, fear and negative believing"- make it appealing to those who have the microphone.

That's why it was such an easy sell for Oprah, for example.

I don't know about it "taking over", though, I think that overstates the case.

All these accusations, a faulty doctorate, plagarism, etc. is not unique to VPW/TWI.

No, they exist anywhere someone has a faulty doctorate and plagiarizes and so on.

Skipping the real work and lying were hardly invented by vpw, nor did he own a charter

on the process of swindling under the flag of God. Some people still do it now.

Afterall, if you're teaching and expounding upon basically the same scriptures and the same doctrines as someone else but end up taking the $$$ and the people away from someone else's till, the same accusations would eventually be leveled at you.

In other words, "if you're successful, people will accuse you of plagiarism, lying about

your credentials, and other wrong things."

I disagree.

I find that a smokescreen to excuse the actuality of plagiarism, lying about credentials,

and other wrong things. Those are wrong whether or not a man catches you,

and even if I like the person who did them.

[Captain Spiritural]

No, you were trying to push an agenda and a point-of-view,

including "facts" that have been disproven already here-but you haven't taken the time to learn that.

And this "malice and hatred" thing is an exaggeration. What I am is bored more than anything.

And any negative emotion is not towards a poster- just towards his or her lies and deceptive doctrine.

"Try to get answers?"

No, you would have read enough to get some learning by now.

"Try to invent answers" would be more like it.

DONT TWIST MY WORDS AGAIN ok

[Sunesis]

Kenyon has been a huge influence on these preachers, including VP. I find it interesting that Kenyon was a student of Mary Baker Eddy - I forget her name exactly, but - she was the founder of Christian Science. Christian Scientists believe in the power of their mind to receive healing, influence God, the magic of believing. Kenyon's book, the Wonderful Name of Jesus, when you reread it, how anything you say in his name must come to pass. Its almost like a magic mantra.

So, I would say, most of these doctrines we have today come from her, and were lifted by the leaders in the pentacostal movement, which began in the mid-1940s after WWII. When the country started propering, the main group based in Tulsa, realized they could make much more money starting their own ministries - which is what they did, including VP who fellowshipped with these men.

Today, we see that the same "magic of believing" law has now gone secular via the book - The Secret. Same thing but wrapped up with a bow for the secular, natural man audience. The author has made a fortune.

I remember, years ago, after having left staff, still with TWI, I went to see a documentary on Christian fundamentalism. I was stunned at how all the ministries, large and small, across the country were carbon copies of TWI. The services, the order, the songs sung, the musicians, the teachings, what the people wore, what they believed, their phrases, etc. I later realized that TWI was really a carbon copy of these ministries on a small scale. VP had done his homework and knew exactly who to pattern TWI after.

Since I had only been involved in TWI and thought we were the best and so unique - it was quite disheartening - we were just one of thousands - there was nothing really different - just a different leader. This made me start rethinking alot of things.

Hmm, I should check out where Mary Baker Eddy got her ideas...

Edited May 20, 2007 by Sunesis

[George Aar]

I think it's kinda a rude awakening when we finally realize that, not only was WayWorld NOT the cutting edge of Biblical research, but it wasn't even that notable of a minor cult.

It just happened to be the snake oil, for whatever reason, that WE bought. And outside of a very small circle of folks, the influence of the $h!++y little outfit was negligible...

[Bolshevik]

Please do Sunesis.

Thanks Wordwolf for the observations.

This is all very interesting or enlightening. Having always had my reality defined by twi and then suddenly realizing it was mostly lies is unsettling. But seeing twi as part of some even bigger movement I feel helps me. . I dunno, somehow. (If I tell people I was part of twi they shrug, if I can connect it to something more people have heard of, I can probably communicate with more folks.) Plus I want to avoid another of these "carbon copies".

[Oakspear]

DONT TWIST MY WORDS AGAIN ok

Can you point out precisely where WordWolf twisted your words?

[Bolshevik]

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/b03.html

[Bolshevik]

http://icsahome.com/infoserv_grp/grp_wayinternational.asp

I went this cult info site, and their description of twi was to direct me here to greasespot.

[Bolshevik]

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/new_thought.html

This article was interesting because it linked Mary Baker Eddy to a guy Quimby. Quimby influenced her as well as Kenyon. Others names are mentioned.

[Bolshevik]

"Ethelbert William Bullinger was born on December 15 in Canterbury, England. He was a direct descendent of the great Swiss Reformer Johann Heinrich Bullinger, a covenant theologian, who succeeded Zwingli in Zurich in December of 1531."

Didn't know this, a connention to the reformation.

[Bolshevik]

http://www.letusreason.org/Wf25.htm

You die when you quit believing to live.

Edited May 22, 2007 by Bolshevik

[Captain Spiritural]

Can you point out precisely where WordWolf twisted your words?

is there an issue? are you talking to the Captain?

[Bolshevik]

http://www.equip.org/site/c.muI1LaMNJrE/b.2625897/k.B7DF/JAW7551.htm

found this via one of Raf's posts

http://www.equip.org/site/c.muI1LaMNJrE/b....7DF/JAW7551.htm

Edited May 22, 2007 by Bolshevik

[Captain Spiritural]

o maybe not then ... ok enjoy your day

[another spot]

Bolshevik. I am quite interested in this topic. I am unable to click on your links. I get an error msg. Could you copy and paste, maybe?

[Bolshevik]

Bolshevik. I am quite interested in this topic. I am unable to click on your links. I get an error msg. Could you copy and paste, maybe?

Sure, sorry about that.

[Bolshevik]

http://www.letusreason.org/wf21.htm

http://www.victoryword.100megspop2.com/kenyondefense.html

http://www.watchman.org/profile/wordpro.htm

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/hinn/general.htm

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/ishealing01.htm

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/b03.html

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/new_thought.html

http://www.letusreason.org/Wf25.htm

http://www.equip.org/site/c.muI1LaMNJrE/b....7DF/JAW7551.htm

I think that's most of the good ones. I found most just by using Google. There's a thread from a few years back with more names to look at. (haven't figured out how to post it here yet).

Edited May 22, 2007 by Bolshevik

[dmiller]

I think that's most of the good ones. I found most just by using Google. There's a thread from a few years back with more names to look at. (haven't figured out how to post it here yet).

What's the name of the thread??

[Bolshevik]

What's the name of the thread??

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...p;hl=Word+Faith

Thanks dmiller!

Edited May 22, 2007 by Bolshevik

[JavaJane]

http://www.letusreason.org/Wf25.htm

You die when you quit believing to live.

And here's a quote:

"Here's a rhyme, how much wood could a wood chuck chop, if a wood chuck could chop wood?

Here's another. How much deception can be seen and heard, when there is no word, and nobody is really listening?"

I think they need a lesson in rhyming.

[Bolshevik]

How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could run a log splitter?