"After leaving TWI, I had time to think about me and what my beliefs were. I had time to find my ownself and figure out what I wanted in my life, and what kind of person I wanted be post-cult." From Notta
"Kinda makes me wonder if maybe women really don't like being married all that much once they really get a taste of it. It turns into just another goddammed job. That would explain all the women who seem to take off once the kids are grown." From Geo
I pondered the quotes above for awhile in the context of my life.
It did take a few years of being away from TWI and religion in general to get to the core of who I was and had always been. I think I suspended who I really was because I tried to accept TWI's doctrine of being the religious wife/mother who lives for everyone else. The mother part never happened for me, but after a number of years I could no longer suppress the indepent, free thinking me that could not co-exist with the wife / servant role.
So there were no children growing up and leaving that triggered my departure from the marriage, I was just tired of trying to be someone who I was not wired to be. The Judeo Christian marriage model just wasn't working for me and I had finally come to know myself well enough to realize and accept it. I think that happens with a lot of women when they reach middle age and evaluate there life. Waiting for the children to grow up isn't necessarily the trigger.
I very much need time alone, but I also enjoy the companionship of different types of people. I love socializing and laughing with my friends, I love the technical discussions I have with my genius friend, Lefty, and I love the very deep personal conversations I have with my closest siblings and long time soulmate friends. I never feel lonely now as I often did when I was married.
Since I post under a screen name and feel particularly bold right now (and this is a stream of consciousness thread after all), I will honestly and frankly say the only part of life that I feel missing at this point is good sex. I didn't have it when I was married and haven't had it since, so maybe I only think I am missing out, but I have to wonder. I don't feel strongly enough about it to consider breaking my rule of never getting married again as I don't want to mess with the part of my life that is working.
Maybe women get more like men as they age. I wouldn't mind the physical relationship but don't want the emotional entanglement of a committed relationship. I think I would be the one that just wanted good sex but wouldn't want to be around for breakfast in the morning.
OK.... Will have to see how long I leave this post before feeling too exposed and deleting half of it.
"Maybe women get more like men as they age. I wouldn't mind the physical relationship but don't want the emotional entanglement of a committed relationship."
Huh, that's odd. I get to where I'd like the committed relationship, but don't much care for the physical part so much anymore. Hell, you can find sex anywhere, if you really want it. If all else fails, you can always buy it, if you get too ugly.
It's the silence that overwhelms me at times. Hours or days without speaking. Hell, you'd think I was a farking monk. I can yell at the dog I guess. She doesn't talk back though. Mostly just cowers in the corner. Worthless goddam mutt. Damn it, I wish she'd just die. What the hell, she's deaf, almost blind from cataracts, incontinent (oh joy!) and does nothing but sleep anymore - oh and chew on herself. How did I end up caring for her? Isn't that just special...
Life is weird, ain't it? I don't think we always get what we deserve. I used to, but not so much anymore. I think we get what we get. Sometimes it's merited, but mostly - not so much. Do westerners really deserve to live with the material abundance they have? Doesn't seem like we did anything all that great. And surely the Biafrans didn't do anything to deserve their lack. But, so it goes.
Morbidly obese Americans driving their Lexuses (Lexi?) out to the all-you-can-eat buffet after a hard day of pecking at a computer keyboard while the Nepalese herdsman shivers in the cold after a meal of scraps our dogs wouldn't eat. Incongruities abound. God obviously loves Americans more than those other worthless heathens...
It's Friday so I went out to dinner. "How many?" asked the hostess, as if she couldn't tell. "Uh, just me" "Oooh" she replied, barely masking her annoyance. "Well, you can have a seat at the bar" Yeah, just what I wanted. I amuse myself with the picture of the thoughtless little wench spending an extra decade or so in pergatory for her casual dismissal of a pathetic old jerk.
Gee, religion really CAN be a comfort.
So I sit at the bar trying to enjoy my "GenuINE Cajun Cookin'" and sipping a Bloody Mary. The goddam brass rail is half missing below my feet and one foot keeps falling off the end. What the hell were the jerks thinking of that designed THAT? I'd a fired their asses in a minute, I think. I was going to tell the bartender what a stupid design it was, but I held my peace.
So, after a few minutes of solitude, my mere presence attracted another dumpy middleaged guy over to the bar. Oh fer Chrissake! Do I LOOK like a fag, goddammit? "No, I'm not interested in you, your politics or what you do in your spare time pal.
Would you mind so much just leaving me the hell alone?" Gawd, something else to hold against my ex - leaving me vulnerable to unwanted advances. I haven't had a gay guy hit on me in decades. And, gee, I really haven't missed it at all. So, it was time to go home. A full 35 minutes out to dinner, whooppee...
I watched the last of my close friends slowly slip away this week. 68 and one of the original hippies from Seattle. He lived life pretty much like he wanted I think. But how lonely it must be to lay in your deathbed, assured of your fate, and your last few friends and loved ones standing around your bed wringing their hands and making well-meaning, but ultimately pointless gestures, to try to ease your pain. But death is a helluvan equilizer. It cuts through all the B.S. He knew what was happening, what was in store for him, but was in so much pain he couldn't tolerate much imput. We had to stay quiet and just watch him fade away. Which he did, quite quickly.
After he died, I just stared at him awhile. I was sure he was going to wake up and start talking to me. It seemed like he should. But death takes no prisoners. And it's one of the few things that's really final.
So now he's ashes and his wife is desperately trying to find some significance in his death, some reason for such a heartrending event. Trivial events take on noteworthy importance, simply because of what ELSE was happening at the time. What he said, how he looked, what others said and did became vital information, even though they changed events not a whit. I could see her grasping to make his death more meaningful, and I tried to humor her as best I could. Eventually we all just burst out in nervous laughter. It was so odd, futile, and unfamiliar.
So often people who have little or nothing to do with another's life become the most important players in it, often totally unwittingly. I'm sure he'd have never thought that I would be one of the last people to hold his hand, or give him a hug, but there I was. And when I've had life-threatening situations come up, I've usually been surrounded by strangers - fortunately for me, they were good-hearted ones. And the people that I've trusted over the years to really be there when I needed it? Well, they're not around. Maybe I should pick my friends with a bit greater care?
Sooner or later life will break your heart, I think. It can be exhilerating, depressing, often boring, but mostly I think life is odd.
Sorry to hear of the loss of your friend, George. Hopefully you'll find some better places to hang out with better interaction.
I wonder sometimes how many people that seem really happy all the time are really happy, or just convincing themselves to be happy, or just pretending. Maybe it's all in the genes ....
It does seem that new opportunities keep presenting themselves though ... there's always something ...
Sorry to hear of the loss of your friend, George. Hopefully you'll find some better places to hang out with better interaction.
I wonder sometimes how many people that seem really happy all the time are really happy, or just convincing themselves to be happy, or just pretending. Maybe it's all in the genes ....
It does seem that new opportunities keep presenting themselves though ... there's always something ...
I'm thinking (according to the Gospel according to Peanuts), you and I are both 1/2 way there.
I've got the banjo, but no dog.
You've got the dog, but no banjo.
It's been 22 years for me. These days --- I put a premium on a *quiet life*.
It doesn't work for everyone, but it does for me.
And --- I don't get invited places either. Most likely wouldn't go even if I were.
Getting invited to functions just means one has to *live up to expectations* of others,
I'm thinking (according to the Gospel according to Peanuts), you and I are both 1/2 way there.
I've got the banjo, but no dog.
You've got the dog, but no banjo.
It's been 22 years for me. These days --- I put a premium on a *quiet life*.
It doesn't work for everyone, but it does for me.
And --- I don't get invited places either. Most likely wouldn't go even if I were.
Getting invited to functions just means one has to *live up to expectations* of others,
which I can do without. Just my 2 cents worth. :)
I thought that is why they invented deer season so I could sit in a tree stand for hours on end and reflect. I been married for 37 yrs and we have a bunch of youngins so I put a premium on the quiet life also. I guess we all learn to adapt.
"Huh, that's odd. I get to where I'd like the committed relationship, but don't much care for the physical part so much anymore. Hell, you can find sex anywhere, if you really want it. If all else fails, you can always buy it, if you get too ugly."
...Well, maybe that is still one of the differences between men and women (or maybe just different people) as they stroll into middle age - I would not be interested in sex without attraction. I can only think of two men I have been attracted to in the last ten years. One is a very good friend who doesn't believe in sex outside of marriage - rules that one out for me. The other was one of my direct reports at work - didn't want to end up in HR, so no action there either. Having to choose between life getting complicated and celibacy, I will stick with celibacy.
Maybe it boils down to personality type. I have always been comfortable being alone. I guess if I liked being alone when I was younger, it is logical that I might still like being alone when I am middle aged. If people don't like being alone when they are young, they are probably going to prefer company as they grow older. Different folks, different strokes.
Geo,
I am very sorry about the death of your friend. I sincerely hope you can find peace and comfort. And I also hope you can return to a place where you will find life exhilarating and worth the occasional heartbreaks. In my experience, that can happen with or without religion. Hope is not exclusive to religion.
I just watched a few minutes of "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid".
Funny, a movie that I always thoroughly enjoyed has taken on a rather somber tone. Here's beautiful, youthful Katherine Ross riding on the handle bars of a still youthful Paul Newman's bicycle, while B.J. Thomas sings a wistful song. Now Katherine is a decidely old lady, Newman has passed away and B.J. is left to singing icky, drippy, dogma-laden numbers to a dwindling audience of Ol' time Religion adherents (last I'd heard, anyway).
I couldn't watch too much of the film. Now that Butch and Sundance's fate is known (at least their fate in the movie) - as are the lives of the real-life actors - it's just too hard to watch. Sort of a metaphor for real life, I guess. The inevitable end that we all must face puts a pall over all of life as one ages, doesn't it? It does for me, anyway. That and the inescapable reality that we're past - or at least passing - our prime. We no longer count for much - if we ever did at all. We're not the "get things done" sorta energetic kids we once were, and when it comes to opportunities, well, we've had our chance, for the most part.
It's fast becoming another generation's turn. The adventures, the challenges, the carousing, the sex, the gambles, it's all stuff we reminisce about now, and regale the guys at the coffee shops with. But it's somebody else's turn to do the actually doing now. That's really depressing. As is the rather chilling epiphany that - when I DID have the chance - I didn't do it right.
Why didn't he swim instead of walk? That stranded Fedex guy in Cast Away. The scene where he was walking in the ocean and his feet were getting cut on the coral. Why didn't he swim instead of walk?
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Scout Finch02
"After leaving TWI, I had time to think about me and what my beliefs were. I had time to find my ownself and figure out what I wanted in my life, and what kind of person I wanted be post-cult." From Notta
"Kinda makes me wonder if maybe women really don't like being married all that much once they really get a taste of it. It turns into just another goddammed job. That would explain all the women who seem to take off once the kids are grown." From Geo
I pondered the quotes above for awhile in the context of my life.
It did take a few years of being away from TWI and religion in general to get to the core of who I was and had always been. I think I suspended who I really was because I tried to accept TWI's doctrine of being the religious wife/mother who lives for everyone else. The mother part never happened for me, but after a number of years I could no longer suppress the indepent, free thinking me that could not co-exist with the wife / servant role.
So there were no children growing up and leaving that triggered my departure from the marriage, I was just tired of trying to be someone who I was not wired to be. The Judeo Christian marriage model just wasn't working for me and I had finally come to know myself well enough to realize and accept it. I think that happens with a lot of women when they reach middle age and evaluate there life. Waiting for the children to grow up isn't necessarily the trigger.
I very much need time alone, but I also enjoy the companionship of different types of people. I love socializing and laughing with my friends, I love the technical discussions I have with my genius friend, Lefty, and I love the very deep personal conversations I have with my closest siblings and long time soulmate friends. I never feel lonely now as I often did when I was married.
Since I post under a screen name and feel particularly bold right now (and this is a stream of consciousness thread after all), I will honestly and frankly say the only part of life that I feel missing at this point is good sex. I didn't have it when I was married and haven't had it since, so maybe I only think I am missing out, but I have to wonder. I don't feel strongly enough about it to consider breaking my rule of never getting married again as I don't want to mess with the part of my life that is working.
Maybe women get more like men as they age. I wouldn't mind the physical relationship but don't want the emotional entanglement of a committed relationship. I think I would be the one that just wanted good sex but wouldn't want to be around for breakfast in the morning.
OK.... Will have to see how long I leave this post before feeling too exposed and deleting half of it.
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George Aar
"Maybe women get more like men as they age. I wouldn't mind the physical relationship but don't want the emotional entanglement of a committed relationship."
Huh, that's odd. I get to where I'd like the committed relationship, but don't much care for the physical part so much anymore. Hell, you can find sex anywhere, if you really want it. If all else fails, you can always buy it, if you get too ugly.
It's the silence that overwhelms me at times. Hours or days without speaking. Hell, you'd think I was a farking monk. I can yell at the dog I guess. She doesn't talk back though. Mostly just cowers in the corner. Worthless goddam mutt. Damn it, I wish she'd just die. What the hell, she's deaf, almost blind from cataracts, incontinent (oh joy!) and does nothing but sleep anymore - oh and chew on herself. How did I end up caring for her? Isn't that just special...
Life is weird, ain't it? I don't think we always get what we deserve. I used to, but not so much anymore. I think we get what we get. Sometimes it's merited, but mostly - not so much. Do westerners really deserve to live with the material abundance they have? Doesn't seem like we did anything all that great. And surely the Biafrans didn't do anything to deserve their lack. But, so it goes.
Morbidly obese Americans driving their Lexuses (Lexi?) out to the all-you-can-eat buffet after a hard day of pecking at a computer keyboard while the Nepalese herdsman shivers in the cold after a meal of scraps our dogs wouldn't eat. Incongruities abound. God obviously loves Americans more than those other worthless heathens...
It's Friday so I went out to dinner. "How many?" asked the hostess, as if she couldn't tell. "Uh, just me" "Oooh" she replied, barely masking her annoyance. "Well, you can have a seat at the bar" Yeah, just what I wanted. I amuse myself with the picture of the thoughtless little wench spending an extra decade or so in pergatory for her casual dismissal of a pathetic old jerk.
Gee, religion really CAN be a comfort.
So I sit at the bar trying to enjoy my "GenuINE Cajun Cookin'" and sipping a Bloody Mary. The goddam brass rail is half missing below my feet and one foot keeps falling off the end. What the hell were the jerks thinking of that designed THAT? I'd a fired their asses in a minute, I think. I was going to tell the bartender what a stupid design it was, but I held my peace.
So, after a few minutes of solitude, my mere presence attracted another dumpy middleaged guy over to the bar. Oh fer Chrissake! Do I LOOK like a fag, goddammit? "No, I'm not interested in you, your politics or what you do in your spare time pal.
Would you mind so much just leaving me the hell alone?" Gawd, something else to hold against my ex - leaving me vulnerable to unwanted advances. I haven't had a gay guy hit on me in decades. And, gee, I really haven't missed it at all. So, it was time to go home. A full 35 minutes out to dinner, whooppee...
I watched the last of my close friends slowly slip away this week. 68 and one of the original hippies from Seattle. He lived life pretty much like he wanted I think. But how lonely it must be to lay in your deathbed, assured of your fate, and your last few friends and loved ones standing around your bed wringing their hands and making well-meaning, but ultimately pointless gestures, to try to ease your pain. But death is a helluvan equilizer. It cuts through all the B.S. He knew what was happening, what was in store for him, but was in so much pain he couldn't tolerate much imput. We had to stay quiet and just watch him fade away. Which he did, quite quickly.
After he died, I just stared at him awhile. I was sure he was going to wake up and start talking to me. It seemed like he should. But death takes no prisoners. And it's one of the few things that's really final.
So now he's ashes and his wife is desperately trying to find some significance in his death, some reason for such a heartrending event. Trivial events take on noteworthy importance, simply because of what ELSE was happening at the time. What he said, how he looked, what others said and did became vital information, even though they changed events not a whit. I could see her grasping to make his death more meaningful, and I tried to humor her as best I could. Eventually we all just burst out in nervous laughter. It was so odd, futile, and unfamiliar.
So often people who have little or nothing to do with another's life become the most important players in it, often totally unwittingly. I'm sure he'd have never thought that I would be one of the last people to hold his hand, or give him a hug, but there I was. And when I've had life-threatening situations come up, I've usually been surrounded by strangers - fortunately for me, they were good-hearted ones. And the people that I've trusted over the years to really be there when I needed it? Well, they're not around. Maybe I should pick my friends with a bit greater care?
Sooner or later life will break your heart, I think. It can be exhilerating, depressing, often boring, but mostly I think life is odd.
Just odd...
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rhino
Sorry to hear of the loss of your friend, George. Hopefully you'll find some better places to hang out with better interaction.
I wonder sometimes how many people that seem really happy all the time are really happy, or just convincing themselves to be happy, or just pretending. Maybe it's all in the genes ....
It does seem that new opportunities keep presenting themselves though ... there's always something ...
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dmiller
I'm thinking (according to the Gospel according to Peanuts), you and I are both 1/2 way there.
I've got the banjo, but no dog.
You've got the dog, but no banjo.
It's been 22 years for me. These days --- I put a premium on a *quiet life*.
It doesn't work for everyone, but it does for me.
And --- I don't get invited places either. Most likely wouldn't go even if I were.
Getting invited to functions just means one has to *live up to expectations* of others,
which I can do without. Just my 2 cents worth. :)
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jeast
I thought that is why they invented deer season so I could sit in a tree stand for hours on end and reflect. I been married for 37 yrs and we have a bunch of youngins so I put a premium on the quiet life also. I guess we all learn to adapt.
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waysider
Ain't life funny?
When I was a youngster, it was unbearable painful to spend time by myself.
Now, I look for any opportunity I can find to be by myself.
I like to leave early for work and take an unnecessary spin through the rural areas just to be on a road all by my lonesome.
Yup. Crank the radio up, yank out an old harmonica and honk away with whatever happens to be playing.
Sing at the top of my lungs, wave my hands, bob my head and have a good old time------All by my lonesome.
And I enjoy it, even if it is briefly lived.
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Scout Finch02
"Huh, that's odd. I get to where I'd like the committed relationship, but don't much care for the physical part so much anymore. Hell, you can find sex anywhere, if you really want it. If all else fails, you can always buy it, if you get too ugly."
...Well, maybe that is still one of the differences between men and women (or maybe just different people) as they stroll into middle age - I would not be interested in sex without attraction. I can only think of two men I have been attracted to in the last ten years. One is a very good friend who doesn't believe in sex outside of marriage - rules that one out for me. The other was one of my direct reports at work - didn't want to end up in HR, so no action there either. Having to choose between life getting complicated and celibacy, I will stick with celibacy.
Maybe it boils down to personality type. I have always been comfortable being alone. I guess if I liked being alone when I was younger, it is logical that I might still like being alone when I am middle aged. If people don't like being alone when they are young, they are probably going to prefer company as they grow older. Different folks, different strokes.
Geo,
I am very sorry about the death of your friend. I sincerely hope you can find peace and comfort. And I also hope you can return to a place where you will find life exhilarating and worth the occasional heartbreaks. In my experience, that can happen with or without religion. Hope is not exclusive to religion.
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George Aar
I just watched a few minutes of "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid".
Funny, a movie that I always thoroughly enjoyed has taken on a rather somber tone. Here's beautiful, youthful Katherine Ross riding on the handle bars of a still youthful Paul Newman's bicycle, while B.J. Thomas sings a wistful song. Now Katherine is a decidely old lady, Newman has passed away and B.J. is left to singing icky, drippy, dogma-laden numbers to a dwindling audience of Ol' time Religion adherents (last I'd heard, anyway).
I couldn't watch too much of the film. Now that Butch and Sundance's fate is known (at least their fate in the movie) - as are the lives of the real-life actors - it's just too hard to watch. Sort of a metaphor for real life, I guess. The inevitable end that we all must face puts a pall over all of life as one ages, doesn't it? It does for me, anyway. That and the inescapable reality that we're past - or at least passing - our prime. We no longer count for much - if we ever did at all. We're not the "get things done" sorta energetic kids we once were, and when it comes to opportunities, well, we've had our chance, for the most part.
It's fast becoming another generation's turn. The adventures, the challenges, the carousing, the sex, the gambles, it's all stuff we reminisce about now, and regale the guys at the coffee shops with. But it's somebody else's turn to do the actually doing now. That's really depressing. As is the rather chilling epiphany that - when I DID have the chance - I didn't do it right.
Regret is a muthaf#$ker...
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cman
Thanks for all that George.
Really.
I am a lot like those things at times.
Other times are different.
Seems I have not much control over some things.
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OperaBuff
Why didn't he swim instead of walk? That stranded Fedex guy in Cast Away. The scene where he was walking in the ocean and his feet were getting cut on the coral. Why didn't he swim instead of walk?
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