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Outin88!

Why did I get involved in an abusive group like TWI?

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When I was young I was quite rebelious. I was somewhat anti establishement and that went for mainline Christianity too.

I was attracted to TWI because it was full of young groovey people were loving and taught some cool Bible.

They immediately shared things like JC is not God and pointed at mainline churches as teaching error, such a reblious attitude towards churches I was intrigued.

They were openly effectionate lots of hugs, kisses and even back rubs during twig. Nothing like the RC church I attended as a kid.

I just followed these cool people's advice and took PFAL. Not knowing the bible, I bought into all the doctrines of PFAL and TWI.

I did learn about salvation through grace and some other wonderful doctrines. Not everything in TWI was bad all the time, was it?

Samuel was left with Eli and his sons that did evil, yet Samuel became one of the greatest prophets in the OT.

For me, I think I needed this type of group at that time in my life to hear the word. How about you?

As I became more involved with TWI I started to notice some legalism and felt some things were just plain wrong.

Flags popped up but I ignored them. I had some friends and relatives that were warning me about TWI. Later I met other Christians that tried to warn me. I was given a book that talked about TWI being a cult.

I chose to ignore these warnings. I believe God was working in me to leave for a while before I did. I just couldn't reconcile my thoughts being from God when this was the ministry that taught me the word.

It took some time for scales to come off my eyes before I did leave, and the scales are still coming off gradually even today. I now know many doctrines TWI taught were wrong.

God gave us free will I made my choices so I'll accept the responsibility for my involvement. And Thank God I'm out now!

God bless.

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Excellent post outin88! Glad to see some of us are taking responsility for our actions. I really do feel sorry for those who were abused etc, but many of them are living in a fantasy world where they believe they were forced to obey the leadership. Hopefully we all learned a big lesson from all this.

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just a note to say I wrote my opion on the 27 years later thread about the choices we did or didnt make.

it isnt a popular postion to take responsibility for ones own involvement.

Face to face it never happened all these accusations, makes you go hmmm?? why?

Attention seeking people love being the victim of circumstances beyond their control and seek those willing to take control of their life.

Am I blaming a victim? that will be the next cry.

No but I am asking the victim to wonder why it happened to them and why they could not stop it.

or it will repeat itself at least in your mind you will continue to be a victim of it.

And you will get consoled for it and it will feel like love, and you would do anything to be that accpeted and loved you will belong.

Is that not how the very abuse started?

Before you rally around and attack me because so many more have a need for this cycle of abuse than not. think.

The I am ok it is all about everyone eles and how they hurt me lets get together and show them just how strong the group can be .

We can show them can't we ? it isnt at all about personal responsibility, I have friends here that will agree because I am me and I like this way of thinking or do not know any better anyway.

I need my friends more than myself and what is good for me help.... so the victim plays out again and seeks the consoling while not even considering why it just keeps happening , why so many evil people are in the world willing to hurt them and their pain........

yes I know the ideals you think work.

Did it then? Does it now?

When will it stop for you?

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This thread wasn't started to blame victims.

I believe we were all duped by TWI, therefore were all victims to a degree.

I did some things I now realize were wrong but I'll take responsibility for my actions and if I've hurt anyone, I'll humbly apologize.

Many people got hurt and wounded by TWI a lot worse then me. And I may never be able to comprehend the pain they are going through.

I was more trying to make sense on why I got duped into following a cult.

My hope was some still in might think about why they are still in and perhaps they have flags they are ignoring.

I will not judge or blame anyone for venting in hurt or anger. In fact I believe it can be healthy to discuss the hurt to maybe someday heal and bring closure.

Rather then lash out at hurt people I'd rather attempt to love comfort them.

One of my goals is to love everyone as Christ loves. Another is to forgive as Christ fogives.

God bless ya'll.

P.S. chwester, welcome to GS cafe.

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Oh please with your I love as Christ loves and forgives bull ****.....

Sure ya do as long as they are on your list of those that will love you and agree in return.

Accountability is what Jesus was and is about, He is a KIng with Justice .

Holy Spirit is the comfort.

being ok with group think in the name of Jesus Christ I contend is how the cult got so dam established and had the ability to hurt people in the manner it did.

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I got involved with TWI cause they had answers that NOBODY in my area was teaching at the time. And yes, I will give them that... in certain points..even now.

Did they abuse the knowledge they had? YES! The killed it! But I also realize that any other church I would have gotten involved in I would have had major doctrinal problems too.

babyrott60percent.gif

...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

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That is why I do not have so much angry feelings .

The world is full of places and people who abuse others.

It doesnt discount what some victims went though but I can not say twi was all bad either.

not for me. I could really blame twi for alot of serious pain but I recognize I was in it and why now.

I forgive myself to be able to forgive others.

all others not just the angry ones.

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mj412 sometimes when writing on these threads, it doesn't quite communicate well.

I absolutely wasn't trying to offend anyone. But rather was trying to put my getting into TWI and the flags that I ignored.

The purpose was to get those still in to think about flags they might be seeing but perhaps ignoring.

Obviously I've offended you, please forgive me, it wasn't my intention, okay?

As for my statement of 'I'll take responsibilty' for my actions, thats what I mean. I may have hurt folks while in, and so I'll accept that was my doing and I'll humbly apologize.

I heard J.S. mention once that after about 10 years of being out he was sharing with a group of people, when one of them said how J.S. had hurth them while in TWI. He hadn't realized it and apologized for his actions while in.

This is kinda what I mean when I say I'll accept responsibility for my wrong doings.

God bless.

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quote:
Originally posted by mj412:

just a note to say I wrote my opion on the 27 years later thread about the choices we did or didnt make.

it isnt a popular postion to take responsibility for ones own involvement.

Face to face it never happened all these accusations, makes you go hmmm?? why?

Attention seeking people love being the victim of circumstances beyond their control and seek those willing to take control of their life.

Am I blaming a victim? that will be the next cry.

No but I am asking the victim to wonder why it happened to them and why they could not stop it.

or it will repeat itself at least in your mind you will continue to be a victim of it.

And you will get consoled for it and it will feel like love, and you would do anything to be that accpeted and loved you will belong.

Is that not how the very abuse started?

Before you rally around and attack me because so many more have a need for this cycle of abuse than not. think.

The I am ok it is all about everyone eles and how they hurt me lets get together and show them just how strong the group can be .

We can show them can't we ? it isnt at all about personal responsibility, I have friends here that will agree because I am me and I like this way of thinking or do not know any better anyway.

I need my friends more than myself and what is good for me help.... so the victim plays out again and seeks the consoling while not even considering why it just keeps happening , why so many evil people are in the world willing to hurt them and their pain........

yes I know the ideals you think work.

Did it then? Does it now?

When will it stop for you?


what an incredible post mj412! You know your stuff! You are so right. Your post sums up everthing I've been trying to say all along. Good job.

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Great Posts 88

I got involved because I was looking for God at the same time a guy was witnessing at work about a class. He and I had known each other from the age of 15! I noticed a marked difference in him. He carried a pocket Bible and when we spoke he would chapter and verse almost everything. I was impressed.

I liked Leonard's PFAL class and the twigs. Later the weirdness of TWI filtered down and strangled us. My flaw was not walking away when I noticed the weirdness. I think I have learned how to trust my gut feelings now.

The confusion was that PFAL was GREAT and TWI was so NOT great. I did not realize we were in two different ministries at the same time.

We were the happy product of BG Leonard's class while in the counterfiet ministry of Weirwille. We were tricked, that is why they are called deceiving spirits.

We were deceived into ignoring our own gut feelings. It was a pretty good devil trick -- have the genuine cool God stuff surrounded by the evil cult stuff! What a snare! I feel in!

I now pay more attention to my gut feelings -- but the confusion was my guts loved PFAL but did not like TWI -- that took 30 years to figure out why. It was a very effective trick!

Dot Matrix

[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on February 19, 2003 at 18:03.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Dot Matrix:

Great Posts 88

I got involved because I was looking for God at the same time a guy was witnessing at work about a class. He and I had known each other from the age of 15! I noticed a marked difference in him. He carried a pocket Bible and when we spoke he would chapter and verse almost everything. I was impressed.

Dot Matrix


My experience is somewhat similar to yours Dot. I had been pleading with God to teach me to speak in tongues. Every night for two weeks straight I had been begging God to show me how to speak in tongues and then one night I met a wayfer who took me to his place and led me into tongues that night. It was the greatest most exciting moment of my life. As a result I naturally fell for whatever they told me.

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quote:
Originally posted by Dot Matrix:

Thanks to God and BG Leonard we heard some good stuff!

Dot Matrix


Yeah, we definitely heard some good stuff. Just think where TWI would be today if Dr Wierwelle had not been driven by the sexual stuff, and had taught the truth about adultry and fornication.

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To VP be the glory great things he hath done

So loved he himself the lies he did spun

For purer and higher and greater will be

That wonder our transport when we got the puck out.

It's interesting that people credit VP and TWI..those who believe in God so they say...with all the good in their lives rather than God Almighty.....

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BG Leonard never taught me anything. I've never even seen the man. But Dr Wierwelle taught me some great Bible. God called BG Leonard to do what he did and called Dr Weirwelle to do what he did. Guess BG Leonard did not have the vision that Wierwelle had to reach thousands. If it wasn't for Wierwelle thousands would not have the proof that they are born again by speaking in tongues. It is wrong to go on and on about what a person did wrong without mentioning the things the person did right.

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You still call him Dr. that was also not true either.

From JJudes site:

While Wayers proudly call VP Wierwille "Doctor," the biographies in his books seldom mention the source of his degree (though the wording leads some readers to believe that he received it from Princeton). Perhaps TWI is embarrassed because Wierwille received his Th. D. in 1948 from Pike's Peak Bible Seminary in Manitou Springs, Colorado (in the Colorado Springs area). In its checkered 60 year history, it has never been accredited or recognized by any reputable agency. It had no resident instruction and no published list of faculty.

Wierwille once defended Pike's Peak Seminary by claiming that its president at the time he attended was Dr. H. Ellis Lininger who "had been the head of the Department of Education for the state of Colorado" (The Way-- Living in Love, p. 189). However, the Colorado Department of Education informed us that Lininger never did head this department as Wierwille claimed.

(Wierwille also claimed that "I took everything I could take at the Moody Bible Institute, too, through their correspondence courses" (TWLIL, p.175). However, although Moody records the names of all the students who completed courses since 1901, Wierwille's name never appears, indicating that if he took any courses, he never completed a single one.)

It is apparent that Wierwille greatly exaggerated his educational achievements in an effort to appear more knowledgeable and credible as a Bible teacher.

(Go to the site)The photo shows the entire "seminary," not just some kind of back house. The street address of Pike's Peak Seminary is 41 Lincoln. This picture is taken from Lincoln street. The other side of the house is perched on the side of a semi-wooded hill, and has no street access.

We all got involved because we believed the lies.

Dot Matrix

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Dot: You are one of my fave people here, and I hope to high heaven I don't P you off, but that juedas dude, man.... talk about calling the kettle black. He calls himself a DR too! where Can I get one of those dr. degree's btw? I'd love to get some valium.

If you look up his name in google, the only thing he seems to live on is being this "expert" on The Way. There is NO mention of a church that he's supposedly a reverend of.

Maybe someone could clue me in. But so far..I'm not impressed with this guy at ALL.

babyrott60percent.gif

...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

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chwester: That speaking in tounges tongues thongs flipflops whatever prooves nada to me. I felt soo pressured to do that crap. I swear. I thought I was going to be a big fat failier if I didn't do that. It wasn't to prove anything to ME. It was to prove to everyone else that I wasn't "seed woman" and faking being a Christian or something. What BS! Like I'm lying if I say I believe Jesus is Lord! These offshoots still pull that crap today. And it boils me to no end.

babyrott60percent.gif

...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...

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To the origional question....I don't know if I was looking for God....I think maybe I was afraid to face adulthood alone,and there certainly was a loving brotherhood of believers to latch onto and face the scary world...I might have wanted some rules,...it seemed hard to live without them at the time....Even tho leadership became harder and harder,there were still plenty of good compassionate followers to retreat to....I don't know,perhaps we just had some voids,or lacks,growing up that the way filled at the time.....

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Thank you, Dot!!

Rottie, John Juedes does/did pastor a church out in CA. I believe. There used to be a phone number when a person could call him; I know I called him once; I will have to scout around for that information for you. :-) I don't know if he has posted here at this forum, but I know he posted at Waydale occassionaly and I believe at the original greasespot as well.

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Hi again, Rottie (did you hear about the Rotweiler that was saved from the ice in NJ? I instantly thought of you when I was watching the news)If you go to his front page http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/cultsthe.htm and scroll down to I think it is the second to last link...you'll see the icon to click on for his church. Please don't think I am trying to make you agree with him or anything, I am just trying to help you get the information about this source of information for you. :-) I believe he also took the PFAL class.

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