Did Wierwille believe in the supernatural?

[Bolshevik]

?

[Ham]

maybe.. maybe he believed that he believed.. or believed that he believed that he believed..

experienced? I dunno.

at this point.. I am not entirely conviced that his "mentors" really believed, either..

if they did.. and I'm thinking about L*onard..

maybe he (L*onard) had the mistaken notion that he and his product could make a silk purse out of a sow's ear (the vicster).

[waysider]

We'll never know for sure.

My opinion, though, is that is was a con man at his very core.

He obviously didn't believe in the old "reach up in Daddy's cookie jar" thing.

It's been shown here that he took information from Liberty Lobby propaganda and led us to believe he got it by revelation.

Then, there's the subject of "excellor sessions" in the Intermediate class, and after. He tricked us into actually practicing a "spiritual" sleight of hand game with TIP and prophesy. Ironic, ya know? He used a shell game to keep us from seeing it was us that were hosting the game. I think that secretly, he scoffed at the notion of a spiritual realm and snickered at our innocence.

[Bolshevik]

. . .

My opinion, though, is that is was a con man at his very core.

. . .

Aren't we all? Aren't supernatural belief systems set up to help us think we are not? (or can really reverse it)

[DontWorryBeHappy]

vic was a hapless, narcissistic, mean-spirited alcoholic, sociopathic, serial sexual predator suffering from hallucinations, and paranoid delusions of grandeur,.....imho...........no redeeming social or intellectual value.

[waysider]

Aren't we all? Aren't supernatural belief systems set up to help us think we are not? (or can really reverse it)

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

I don't believe we are all con men nor do I believe we are trying to delude ourselves into thinking we're not.

Con men come in all shapes and flavors.

It's incidental that some of them use the supernatural in their schemes but not all of them do.

Hard core con men, like VPW, lack compassion for their victims.

Obviously, not every person who has committed a deceitful act fulfills that criteria.

[Bolshevik]

vic was a hapless, narcissistic, mean-spirited alcoholic, sociopathic, serial sexual predator suffering from hallucinations, and paranoid delusions of grandeur,.....imho...........no redeeming social or intellectual value.

but he enjoyed every minute of it, no?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

I don't believe we are all con men nor do I believe we are trying to delude ourselves into thinking we're not.

Con men come in all shapes and flavors.

It's incidental that some of them use the supernatural in their schemes but not all of them do.

Hard core con men, like VPW, lack compassion for their victims.

Obviously, not every person who has committed a deceitful act fulfills that criteria.

would you say con men are a subset of liars in general?

yeah, supernatural delusions are a subset of delusion in general

Nobody likes hard core reality, why else would so many remain loyal to vpw's teachings?

[waysider]

Nobody likes hard core reality, why else would so many remain loyal to vpw's teachings?

I don't know.

Maybe they're afraid to admit they got crapped on like the rest of us.

[Bolshevik]

I don't know.

Maybe they're afraid to admit they got crapped on like the rest of us.

y'ad think people would get angry . . . a few are I guess

what are they afraid of? friends and family? the loss of structure? that Hell might exist? they lost a bet?

[waysider]

what are they afraid of?

Looking foolish

[Bolshevik]

Looking foolish

ha! joke's on them . . .