This is a link to the two posts that have me considering what if anything can still be done about TWI. After I read these I thought that it would be nice if they'd get their ASSEtS sued off.
I looked into a lawsuit, and although many of the things done to me were illegal and the root cause was twi, the burden of proof was so onerous as to make it impossible to win. you can't prove that you were held against your will if everyone else present says you weren't.
a civil multiple plaintiff action, maybe... but then we'd need a lawyer in the state where twi is incorporated to take it on a contingent basis, and we'd need enough people willing and able to give testimony that establishes a pattern of abuse. I for one would be happy to testify. finding a lawyer to work with is much more problematic.
I know that many of you have been considering this matter for years. And in comparison I am a late-comer to the Greasespot. I expect that many of you have various considerations on this subject as it relates to everybodies own experiences for sure.
One thing I can be clear about is that I have absolutely no personal intrest in the possibility of sueing TWI or specific ministers for abusive behavior. But I believe that there are people out there who may have suffered such terrible abuse at the hands of TWI that they should consider this option. And it may be that as TWI insiders how they will or have gotten the shaft from the Scumdog Millionaires that the potential for brave souls who used to partake in the pattern of abuse might now be willing to testify.
How can any one of us say for sure unless we lay the cards out for TWI victims to explore. And while it may be that any given individual might upon examination find that their case is not actionable they may be better of for having explored the option.
It seems possible to me Potato that this thread might be able to focus on HOW A LAWSUIT MIGHT BE SUCCESSFUL. Who knows what might happen when another Excathedra might meet up with another ex- Mrs. John Lynn for instance.
Take Care and God Bless Potato
____________________________________
To the rest of the Greasespotters,
Have we knowledge of every TWI abuse victim?
Would you like abuse victims to be able to have your wise councel on how such a lawsuit might be successful?
Have we made up our minds that nobody can ever do it?
Maybe the TWI bullying has hit you deeper than you know if you think this is a bad idea.
I know that anyone who still thinks like TWI leadership will not like the idea of posting hopeful possibilities on this thread because what they were trained to do was to micromanage peoples' lives, not empower them. Sometimes I wonder how many Greasespotters think like that without even realizing that they can be judgementally controlling.
What type of lawsuits have worked before? What did it take? Are we too timid to help abuse victims get some justice or are just too weak and/or old?
Would you help abuse victims get justice for themselves or maybe we'd all prefer to let someone else decide these things for us. Maybe some of us are still wayfers in our manner?
Maybe the Greasespot should be taken over by the big names and we could let them call all the shots for TWI abuse victims. After all, they did such a good job of controlling things and being the bigshots before, just as TWI taught them. I'm sure we could find people to tell abuse victims what kind of justice they can or cannot fight for, just like TWI has. OR INSTEAD,MAYBE THEY SHOULD BE GIVEN ENOUGH INFORMATION RIGHT HERE AND NOW TO DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES!
Naw, no tar and feathers with me Dave. Even though I get the "tar and feathers" comment the humor just doesn't seem to be working for me right now, sorry.
I guess it is possible that I do not see the need as it really is. Even though I have been irked to varying degrees by the poster who was oftentimes boasting that there had been no lawsuits that have resulted in convictions against TWI I hadn't thought this thread to be as much of an emotional reaction to that poster as a thread that dealt with real possibilities.
Thanks Dave.
_______________________________
I'm certain that for much of the abuse that I've read about here at the Greasespot that a lawsuit is a just and reasonable response. And while I have heard you all being taunted for most of the time since I've been here about this "No successful lawsuits" situation and have sought to minimize the adverse effects of the bullying that you all were having to listen too.
I did not wait to set up the preffered situation to make myself look like a bigshot either. I just resisted them as I found them. And I did not plan the fights I had with them with the ending already a forgone conclusion as others seem to have. Heck, that is how my former splinter group set things up. Manipulaters and cowards, every one of them. I am surprised and am somewhat of a loss.
The truth is that I've been looking for new friends here for over a year with no little optomism. Now I'm not certain that I want that anymore.
On one hand, if this place was anything like my former splinter group hidden judgements without any confrontation or restoration while leaving the marked one in the dark as to the real reasons would be the norm. Heck in my splinter group living and losing my family, even to judges with hidden agendas and judgements that I never have been able to speak to was my bread and butter for quite a few
years. Bring it on babies, I've faced that kind of thing up close and personal to my own harm already. That is why I do not need to take any of the Greasespot bullies seriously from any side. But as annoying as some as these bullies have been to me, and many of you have seen my reactions to them I FIND THEM TO BE MUCH EASIER TO DEAL WITH AND EVEN REFRESHING IN COMPARISON TO THOSE WHO JUDGE WITHOUT HAVING ANY COURAGE TO SPEAK TOO ME ABOUT THE ISSUES.
On the other hand, if anyone else who has taken up such a fight and already lost everything they had, only to do their best to come back swinging, those I will hear. What the heck, I'll usually hear darn near anybody who speaks the truth the best they know it out of concern. Every other mindset that I know of is annoying at best, and evil at worst. And for those who boast of lost fights while maximizing their networking skills, I am not impressed.
Isn't the how the old board of trustees at the Way International functioned. Heck yeah they did. The networked and schemed to win politically. And it ends up feeling like you are facing a wall of silence and many of you had your lives wrecked by networking, manipulative, and cowardly leaders just like them. Before you even knew how scummy they really were, they had you beaten. You were set up by real bastards. Boy, I sure was looking for more forthright people here. While in any exchange likes and dislikes are inevitable to develope, in my mind it seems most reasonable that there would be someone who wouldn't be satisfied with treating any brother like a mushroom. (I mean keeping them in the dark and feeding them sh_t.)
_________________________________
As to the lawsuit possibility, why would anyone want to dismiss it out of hand or ignore it as a possibility for anyone else?
I can think of several honest reasons to dismiss it for one's self but I can think of no good reason to dismiss it out of hand for absolutely everybody else in the world.
The reaction that I am most concerned about is misplaced Christian love that is ignorantly driven by TWI stooges in order to lead us away from considering the possibility. I can almost hear their dismissive platitudes that used to be a weak point to every one of us.
I am certain that TWI would not like this topic on the table. Heck, I think those scumdog millionaires would be content with EVERY OTHER TOPIC THAT THE GREAQSESPOT POSTS, IF ONLY THEY COULD KILL THE TALK CONCERNING TAKING TWI MILLIONS. I mean, what other thing have they proven that they actually care about besides the money, absolutely nothing, that's what.
And as far as the scumdog Millionaires go, they are bastards and no bretheren of mine. If they have a change of heart let them give up their money and confess the truth of their scuminess. Let them learn to help the one's that they've hurt and take full accountability, and until then I'll count them as bastards and not as any bretheren of mine. So if I had an actionable case against TWI I'd sue their ASSEtS off with a clear conscience, I'm just saying. Where does it say we can't take bastards to court!?
Just because twi has millions, doesn't mean anyone is living like a millionaire. Maybe vpw and lcm did. But not now. Rosie supposedly has her own funding and drives and Oldsmobile. Donn@ lives in a dorm. Rosie has a boat, but it ain't twi property as far as I know. They work long hours like everyone else. The board might live a little better, but really not that much, insignificant by today's standards. Heck, Pl@tig couldn't keep up with the work load when rfr was out of town. (I guess he went south)
Taking money away, I don't know what that could accomplish.
Just because twi has millions, doesn't mean anyone is living like a millionaire. Maybe vpw and lcm did. But not now. Rosie supposedly has her own funding and drives and Oldsmobile. Donn@ lives in a dorm. Rosie has a boat, but it ain't twi property as far as I know. They work long hours like everyone else. The board might live a little better, but really not that much, insignificant by today's standards. Heck, Pl@tig couldn't keep up with the work load when rfr was out of town. (I guess he went south)
Taking money away, I don't know what that could accomplish.
Rosie has money from inheritance which she used to purchase land. TWI staff built her house for her with free labor - she paid for materials. This level of hypocrisy cries from the rooftops for her to dwell in a cieled house while adamantly opposing those in TWI from having a mortgage as the only viable option for them to own houses. Rosie has her own boat which she stores on TWI property as opposed to needing to pay for moorage. She has servants take care of her house and do all maintenance without paying for it. She does not incur a fraction of the normal costs of living people living in the real world do as she has so many perks included that are all under the table. And like the megalomaniacs that preceded her the absolute authority she's garnered to herself have many practically worshipping her like a goddess. It is vomit inducing.
The reason she works long hours at times is because by nature she is one of the most controlling individuals on the planet. EVERY decision goes across her desk. High levels of control, low levels of service. And a position of absolute authority. Control freaks always seem to have a lot of work because it takes a lot of effort doing everyone else's job for them. There is a lot of activity, but little really produced. It also sucks the life out of anyone with ability or talent. It is a complete collectivist culture, and individualism is attacked. Polar opposites of how Jesus Christ walked around on earth. Polar opposites of how the apostle Paul lived. Paul spoke of people like this when he stated after a Jerusalem visit that they seemed to be somewhat but added nothing to him. In all actuality, how they live there is more of a pattern of what you see in Jerusalem at the end of Acts. It is not "It Is Written", it is "It Is Position". Who says something is ultimately more important than the truth of what is said. In that you see the model of the Roman Catholic Church and their priority of decisions 1) What the Pope says, 2) Tradition of the Church, and 3) Scriptures. TWI absolutely functions like that currently and most of the time in the past too with exceptions where genuine people within that devilish structure could act out of the love of God. Those leaders are the Pharisees of Pharisees, and those they raise up like Jesus Christ said will be 3-fold the children of hell they themselves are. Politics, bribery, building of fiefdoms - you have it all there, with legacy money backing it.
VPW on the other hand, when receiving the inheritance of his family farm donated all of it to TWI. At least the old lecher was all in to what he was doing. He could have kept so much for himself and his own family.
Nowadays they all hide money away and retain lawyers. The salary structure of the top TWI leaders is markedly above the workers who are almost poverty level. And the cost of living is low too. President's Cabinet members are buying houses with cash from the salaries they've saved up, while the poor idiot on the field struggles to work long hours at a normal job or two, raise a family and then spend all spare time attending a fellowship and meeting the requirements of their curriculum and on top of that all the time required to shine up to the local leader so you don't get burned and defamed by their strong-arm tactics. Just the problems of countries without a democracy. There is no middle class in TWI spritually and even more and more culturally and physically either. The middle class are smarter than to subject themselves to the kind of control they observe.
The Pharisees used to build huge structures of other Pharisees around them. They would only do business with other Pharisees. This is the history of the "corban" Jesus confronted. If all business was only with other Pharisees all goods and services were tithe free. They could take a widow's last mite, yet themselves live on the fat. TWI is like that in many ways where they isolate themselves from direct contact with the despicable acts they initiate and so have the insolation of legal protection against those acts even if you have a legitimate case. This is the problem with trying to sue them right now - at best you're going to cause some lower level goon to be disciplined because they were stupid enough to do what they were told and loyal enough to "protect the ministry" and take the consequences.
A lot of all that is why I think most people have just adopted the stance of just letting go and letting God deal with it. I'll be a witness against them at the bema. For now I can build my own life in positive directions like many of you are doing.
I think they'll be protected more as the older generation gets replaced. The younger generations can live in the realm of myth and legend. That is, if it lasts at all.
Thanks for the link to the older discussion Bolshevik, that was a good read.
I cannot speak for everyone's abuse and the choices that they've made regarding the possibility of lawsuits. I do not really know anyone's story but my own right now.
But it seems a shame that the Allen lawsuit was sealed. Since I am looking for a "How-To-Sue The Way International handbook" I might have found many good pointers in that suit. I have no plans to sue anyone BTW. It's just that I am fairly certain that many people have seen the kind of abuse that could be actionable.
Getting expert advice from good lawyers is a must. How about running down lawyers that have successfully sued churches for hiding sexual abuse. They are out their!!!
I am fairly certain that if a case was strong that the old cases could probably be opened by prosecuting attournies.? At least we know there is a precedent. It's just that it is hiden for now. DARN. It would be an interesting read to actually read the record of how Rosie threw Martindale under the bus.
From the stories at the Greasespot it seems clear that there was a pattern to TWI abuse that ran very deep with TWI using various mindgames and psuedo-theology to get many people to help them on many levels over many freakin years. I've gotta believe that a lawsiuit is possible. But people have to have overcome some of the TWI b.s. that has had them twisted up into knots for years and years to even begin to deal with these things I guess. Let alone be able to keep their courage when TWI style abuse that we were trained to like Pavlov's dogs came at us.
Maybe if there was someone out there a little like me in that they were perturbed and didn't have much of anything to lose right now. I'd certainly give an actual abuse victim moral support at least. And if I was a person who could testify in order to strengthen the accusers case I would. It might be interesting to consider who might be accountable for NOT BEING WILLING TO TESTFY TO THE ABUSE THEY WERE A PARTY TOO. For instance one could consider how God might deal with someone who refused to tell the truth, or some other ethical frame of reference I guess.
(edited for spelling)
(added in editing)
One thing for sure, do not expect The Way International to tell anyone the truth about their money. I'm fairly certain that the #1 in TWI only tells the #2 as much as necessary. The training as to that manner has been going on for a long, long time.
What....you think the Board would advertise their millions?! Not very likely. I think that they have just become that good at hiding their scuminess. They've only had decades to practise after all. <_<
You will find that some of the ole boys are actually billionares, and will war at the first word to expose their daqmnable secrets. They have had connections way up in the FBI, Congress, Courts, and their vile lawyers Baker and Hostetler in Clevland are ole pros at defending them and playing dirty.
The best I have done is to get some of their friends to come out after me, and I have lost most every round.
Even when they have admitted crimes in court, there is no one that will charge them. In the church Oral Roberts left when Craig was picked insted of him and his group and went on with his own ministry, I have seen the old home movies of him, waaaaaaaaay back. Based on this, there are a pile of secrets there, and the COC; COG; Baptist; and all sorts will never do more than teach against the things they stand for.
Lastly they are all viscious, and if I hadn't had some good friends, I would have gotten more that I did over exposing the group sex, abuses, crimes about their actual ordination, and there is a list ten feet long.
Any tme anyone wants to find a great attorney, and clean house at TWI, I will contribute, and testify, but remember, the estimater I got was a retainer of $200,000 to start, and one's like Vince Mc Fadden, and Martindale, are not stable, and are viscious.
I've read Allem's final sharing on his lawsuit against TWI. I was very glad that he seemed content with how it ended. He seemed blessed with all the prayers and help too.
He must have felt a little stung to point out that there was a difference between those that "said" they'd be willing to testify and those that actually did. If I recall correctly he used the phrase "your money where your mouth is." But in a lawsuit where people have to overcome years of TWI mental terrorism, (TWI calls it training) I'm certain that a partial response is to be expected to find those who would willingly subject themselves to cross-examination in a courtroom.
Considering how pervasive the abuse was in TWI I am still stunned at the small numbers of lawsuits. I guess I would like people to be informed on the possibilities of success as this thread developes. I think that it is very likly that people missed out because they have not been informed.
I think one of the most damaging of the old TWI mindsets in regards to folks learning to stand up for themselves is a lack of information along with the old TWI mindset of lockbox.
I WILL HAPPILY CONTINUE TO DEVELOPE THIS THREAD EVEN IF THERE ARE PREDICTIONS OF CHAOS AND/OR DISASTER.
Most of leadership's old "HABITS" in regard to controlling the free flow of information are only self serving manners that were originally taught by scumbags in hiding anyway.
(edited for grammar) p.s. I'm fairly certain that any of my old English teachers may find that comment to be amusing.
As I've considered this thread I've considered it likely that the fairly popular public sentiment that relegates people who sue others to some kind of immoral staus may come up. And while I clearly understand that there are frivolous and damaging lawsuits clogging up the U.S. legal system already I have no problem considering anyone who suffered at the hands of TWI as a possible candidate for a just lawsuit.
Families were lost in some cases. Livelyhoods were lost in others. Some abuse victims chose suicide. Others have suffered years of aftereffects in some kind of self destructive behavior best treated by proffesionals.
I refuse to accept bullying that is directed at any of these potentially worthy lawsuit litigants if it is a possible course of action for any of them. And for the bullying that is so subtly done that the bully can even claim deniability, I will simply remember it, period.
I wish that there were more people who participated in the events of the lawsuits that shared there experiences more fully here at the Greasespot Cafe. There seems to be some discussion of the lawsuits, but few substantial and specific stories that seem to have any more depth in them than just a self-serving war story. Now I have "fishing tales" that I can tell of my own life events too, but these fishing tales that I can tell about my own experiences are things that amuse me and they are generally not about serious topics. Frankly most of them are stories about some foolishness of mine, and not so much about my so-called heroism, that is if I chose to go that route.
But as I've stated my feelings about TWI abuse victims who show there genuine bravery by sharing them at the Greasespot, I will not be budged if I chose to feel sympathy and support for genuine abuse victims who chose to go with a lawsuit to get their justice. And I will refuse to give in to cowardly and subtle put downs toward anyone who finally decides to share their own lawsuit experiences for everyone elses benefit either. I will HAPPILY dance that dance too if anyone decides to share.
Recommended Posts
JeffSjo
This is a link to the two posts that have me considering what if anything can still be done about TWI. After I read these I thought that it would be nice if they'd get their ASSEtS sued off.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
potato
I looked into a lawsuit, and although many of the things done to me were illegal and the root cause was twi, the burden of proof was so onerous as to make it impossible to win. you can't prove that you were held against your will if everyone else present says you weren't.
a civil multiple plaintiff action, maybe... but then we'd need a lawyer in the state where twi is incorporated to take it on a contingent basis, and we'd need enough people willing and able to give testimony that establishes a pattern of abuse. I for one would be happy to testify. finding a lawyer to work with is much more problematic.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
Dear Potato,
I know that many of you have been considering this matter for years. And in comparison I am a late-comer to the Greasespot. I expect that many of you have various considerations on this subject as it relates to everybodies own experiences for sure.
One thing I can be clear about is that I have absolutely no personal intrest in the possibility of sueing TWI or specific ministers for abusive behavior. But I believe that there are people out there who may have suffered such terrible abuse at the hands of TWI that they should consider this option. And it may be that as TWI insiders how they will or have gotten the shaft from the Scumdog Millionaires that the potential for brave souls who used to partake in the pattern of abuse might now be willing to testify.
How can any one of us say for sure unless we lay the cards out for TWI victims to explore. And while it may be that any given individual might upon examination find that their case is not actionable they may be better of for having explored the option.
It seems possible to me Potato that this thread might be able to focus on HOW A LAWSUIT MIGHT BE SUCCESSFUL. Who knows what might happen when another Excathedra might meet up with another ex- Mrs. John Lynn for instance.
Take Care and God Bless Potato
____________________________________
To the rest of the Greasespotters,
Have we knowledge of every TWI abuse victim?
Would you like abuse victims to be able to have your wise councel on how such a lawsuit might be successful?
Have we made up our minds that nobody can ever do it?
Maybe the TWI bullying has hit you deeper than you know if you think this is a bad idea.
I know that anyone who still thinks like TWI leadership will not like the idea of posting hopeful possibilities on this thread because what they were trained to do was to micromanage peoples' lives, not empower them. Sometimes I wonder how many Greasespotters think like that without even realizing that they can be judgementally controlling.
What type of lawsuits have worked before? What did it take? Are we too timid to help abuse victims get some justice or are just too weak and/or old?
Would you help abuse victims get justice for themselves or maybe we'd all prefer to let someone else decide these things for us. Maybe some of us are still wayfers in our manner?
Maybe the Greasespot should be taken over by the big names and we could let them call all the shots for TWI abuse victims. After all, they did such a good job of controlling things and being the bigshots before, just as TWI taught them. I'm sure we could find people to tell abuse victims what kind of justice they can or cannot fight for, just like TWI has. OR INSTEAD,MAYBE THEY SHOULD BE GIVEN ENOUGH INFORMATION RIGHT HERE AND NOW TO DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Personally - - - I think they'll all get their "rewards" (cough! cough!), in heaven. :unsure:
However - - - if you have some tar and feathers handy (these days), count me in. :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
Naw, no tar and feathers with me Dave. Even though I get the "tar and feathers" comment the humor just doesn't seem to be working for me right now, sorry.
I guess it is possible that I do not see the need as it really is. Even though I have been irked to varying degrees by the poster who was oftentimes boasting that there had been no lawsuits that have resulted in convictions against TWI I hadn't thought this thread to be as much of an emotional reaction to that poster as a thread that dealt with real possibilities.
Thanks Dave.
_______________________________
I'm certain that for much of the abuse that I've read about here at the Greasespot that a lawsuit is a just and reasonable response. And while I have heard you all being taunted for most of the time since I've been here about this "No successful lawsuits" situation and have sought to minimize the adverse effects of the bullying that you all were having to listen too.
I did not wait to set up the preffered situation to make myself look like a bigshot either. I just resisted them as I found them. And I did not plan the fights I had with them with the ending already a forgone conclusion as others seem to have. Heck, that is how my former splinter group set things up. Manipulaters and cowards, every one of them. I am surprised and am somewhat of a loss.
The truth is that I've been looking for new friends here for over a year with no little optomism. Now I'm not certain that I want that anymore.
On one hand, if this place was anything like my former splinter group hidden judgements without any confrontation or restoration while leaving the marked one in the dark as to the real reasons would be the norm. Heck in my splinter group living and losing my family, even to judges with hidden agendas and judgements that I never have been able to speak to was my bread and butter for quite a few
years. Bring it on babies, I've faced that kind of thing up close and personal to my own harm already. That is why I do not need to take any of the Greasespot bullies seriously from any side. But as annoying as some as these bullies have been to me, and many of you have seen my reactions to them I FIND THEM TO BE MUCH EASIER TO DEAL WITH AND EVEN REFRESHING IN COMPARISON TO THOSE WHO JUDGE WITHOUT HAVING ANY COURAGE TO SPEAK TOO ME ABOUT THE ISSUES.
On the other hand, if anyone else who has taken up such a fight and already lost everything they had, only to do their best to come back swinging, those I will hear. What the heck, I'll usually hear darn near anybody who speaks the truth the best they know it out of concern. Every other mindset that I know of is annoying at best, and evil at worst. And for those who boast of lost fights while maximizing their networking skills, I am not impressed.
Isn't the how the old board of trustees at the Way International functioned. Heck yeah they did. The networked and schemed to win politically. And it ends up feeling like you are facing a wall of silence and many of you had your lives wrecked by networking, manipulative, and cowardly leaders just like them. Before you even knew how scummy they really were, they had you beaten. You were set up by real bastards. Boy, I sure was looking for more forthright people here. While in any exchange likes and dislikes are inevitable to develope, in my mind it seems most reasonable that there would be someone who wouldn't be satisfied with treating any brother like a mushroom. (I mean keeping them in the dark and feeding them sh_t.)
_________________________________
As to the lawsuit possibility, why would anyone want to dismiss it out of hand or ignore it as a possibility for anyone else?
I can think of several honest reasons to dismiss it for one's self but I can think of no good reason to dismiss it out of hand for absolutely everybody else in the world.
The reaction that I am most concerned about is misplaced Christian love that is ignorantly driven by TWI stooges in order to lead us away from considering the possibility. I can almost hear their dismissive platitudes that used to be a weak point to every one of us.
I am certain that TWI would not like this topic on the table. Heck, I think those scumdog millionaires would be content with EVERY OTHER TOPIC THAT THE GREAQSESPOT POSTS, IF ONLY THEY COULD KILL THE TALK CONCERNING TAKING TWI MILLIONS. I mean, what other thing have they proven that they actually care about besides the money, absolutely nothing, that's what.
And as far as the scumdog Millionaires go, they are bastards and no bretheren of mine. If they have a change of heart let them give up their money and confess the truth of their scuminess. Let them learn to help the one's that they've hurt and take full accountability, and until then I'll count them as bastards and not as any bretheren of mine. So if I had an actionable case against TWI I'd sue their ASSEtS off with a clear conscience, I'm just saying. Where does it say we can't take bastards to court!?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
Isn't twi a corporation or something? Maybe not. If it is, was it always?
Who are we suing? For what? Money? Why?
vpw is gone. lcm is an outcast. rfr is old. Who are the rest? What are they guilty of?
Isn't it just one group of beliefs against another? Not for the courts is it? Maybe someday.
I don't know.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
Have you searched for the @llen lawsuit? Maybe it's on Waydale stuff.
settled out of court I think, guess the jugular can't be hit.
if twi was to last, maybe the lawsuit is what it needed. We'll have to wait and see. Hopefully, it'll just *bloop*.
but who cares . . .
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bluzeman
I don't want to sue them.
I want to kick their slimy arses.
But, that's just me. :)
I don't know if arses is a word, but you get my drift.
Edited by BluzemanLink to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
Just because twi has millions, doesn't mean anyone is living like a millionaire. Maybe vpw and lcm did. But not now. Rosie supposedly has her own funding and drives and Oldsmobile. Donn@ lives in a dorm. Rosie has a boat, but it ain't twi property as far as I know. They work long hours like everyone else. The board might live a little better, but really not that much, insignificant by today's standards. Heck, Pl@tig couldn't keep up with the work load when rfr was out of town. (I guess he went south)
Taking money away, I don't know what that could accomplish.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
Rosie has money from inheritance which she used to purchase land. TWI staff built her house for her with free labor - she paid for materials. This level of hypocrisy cries from the rooftops for her to dwell in a cieled house while adamantly opposing those in TWI from having a mortgage as the only viable option for them to own houses. Rosie has her own boat which she stores on TWI property as opposed to needing to pay for moorage. She has servants take care of her house and do all maintenance without paying for it. She does not incur a fraction of the normal costs of living people living in the real world do as she has so many perks included that are all under the table. And like the megalomaniacs that preceded her the absolute authority she's garnered to herself have many practically worshipping her like a goddess. It is vomit inducing.
The reason she works long hours at times is because by nature she is one of the most controlling individuals on the planet. EVERY decision goes across her desk. High levels of control, low levels of service. And a position of absolute authority. Control freaks always seem to have a lot of work because it takes a lot of effort doing everyone else's job for them. There is a lot of activity, but little really produced. It also sucks the life out of anyone with ability or talent. It is a complete collectivist culture, and individualism is attacked. Polar opposites of how Jesus Christ walked around on earth. Polar opposites of how the apostle Paul lived. Paul spoke of people like this when he stated after a Jerusalem visit that they seemed to be somewhat but added nothing to him. In all actuality, how they live there is more of a pattern of what you see in Jerusalem at the end of Acts. It is not "It Is Written", it is "It Is Position". Who says something is ultimately more important than the truth of what is said. In that you see the model of the Roman Catholic Church and their priority of decisions 1) What the Pope says, 2) Tradition of the Church, and 3) Scriptures. TWI absolutely functions like that currently and most of the time in the past too with exceptions where genuine people within that devilish structure could act out of the love of God. Those leaders are the Pharisees of Pharisees, and those they raise up like Jesus Christ said will be 3-fold the children of hell they themselves are. Politics, bribery, building of fiefdoms - you have it all there, with legacy money backing it.
VPW on the other hand, when receiving the inheritance of his family farm donated all of it to TWI. At least the old lecher was all in to what he was doing. He could have kept so much for himself and his own family.
Nowadays they all hide money away and retain lawyers. The salary structure of the top TWI leaders is markedly above the workers who are almost poverty level. And the cost of living is low too. President's Cabinet members are buying houses with cash from the salaries they've saved up, while the poor idiot on the field struggles to work long hours at a normal job or two, raise a family and then spend all spare time attending a fellowship and meeting the requirements of their curriculum and on top of that all the time required to shine up to the local leader so you don't get burned and defamed by their strong-arm tactics. Just the problems of countries without a democracy. There is no middle class in TWI spritually and even more and more culturally and physically either. The middle class are smarter than to subject themselves to the kind of control they observe.
The Pharisees used to build huge structures of other Pharisees around them. They would only do business with other Pharisees. This is the history of the "corban" Jesus confronted. If all business was only with other Pharisees all goods and services were tithe free. They could take a widow's last mite, yet themselves live on the fat. TWI is like that in many ways where they isolate themselves from direct contact with the despicable acts they initiate and so have the insolation of legal protection against those acts even if you have a legitimate case. This is the problem with trying to sue them right now - at best you're going to cause some lower level goon to be disciplined because they were stupid enough to do what they were told and loyal enough to "protect the ministry" and take the consequences.
A lot of all that is why I think most people have just adopted the stance of just letting go and letting God deal with it. I'll be a witness against them at the bema. For now I can build my own life in positive directions like many of you are doing.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
I think they'll be protected more as the older generation gets replaced. The younger generations can live in the realm of myth and legend. That is, if it lasts at all.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
Thanks for the link to the older discussion Bolshevik, that was a good read.
I cannot speak for everyone's abuse and the choices that they've made regarding the possibility of lawsuits. I do not really know anyone's story but my own right now.
But it seems a shame that the Allen lawsuit was sealed. Since I am looking for a "How-To-Sue The Way International handbook" I might have found many good pointers in that suit. I have no plans to sue anyone BTW. It's just that I am fairly certain that many people have seen the kind of abuse that could be actionable.
Getting expert advice from good lawyers is a must. How about running down lawyers that have successfully sued churches for hiding sexual abuse. They are out their!!!
I am fairly certain that if a case was strong that the old cases could probably be opened by prosecuting attournies.? At least we know there is a precedent. It's just that it is hiden for now. DARN. It would be an interesting read to actually read the record of how Rosie threw Martindale under the bus.
From the stories at the Greasespot it seems clear that there was a pattern to TWI abuse that ran very deep with TWI using various mindgames and psuedo-theology to get many people to help them on many levels over many freakin years. I've gotta believe that a lawsiuit is possible. But people have to have overcome some of the TWI b.s. that has had them twisted up into knots for years and years to even begin to deal with these things I guess. Let alone be able to keep their courage when TWI style abuse that we were trained to like Pavlov's dogs came at us.
Maybe if there was someone out there a little like me in that they were perturbed and didn't have much of anything to lose right now. I'd certainly give an actual abuse victim moral support at least. And if I was a person who could testify in order to strengthen the accusers case I would. It might be interesting to consider who might be accountable for NOT BEING WILLING TO TESTFY TO THE ABUSE THEY WERE A PARTY TOO. For instance one could consider how God might deal with someone who refused to tell the truth, or some other ethical frame of reference I guess.
(edited for spelling)
(added in editing)
One thing for sure, do not expect The Way International to tell anyone the truth about their money. I'm fairly certain that the #1 in TWI only tells the #2 as much as necessary. The training as to that manner has been going on for a long, long time.
What....you think the Board would advertise their millions?! Not very likely. I think that they have just become that good at hiding their scuminess. They've only had decades to practise after all. <_<
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
Share on other sites
CONNERRON
Hello:
Hope you get this!
You will find that some of the ole boys are actually billionares, and will war at the first word to expose their daqmnable secrets. They have had connections way up in the FBI, Congress, Courts, and their vile lawyers Baker and Hostetler in Clevland are ole pros at defending them and playing dirty.
The best I have done is to get some of their friends to come out after me, and I have lost most every round.
Even when they have admitted crimes in court, there is no one that will charge them. In the church Oral Roberts left when Craig was picked insted of him and his group and went on with his own ministry, I have seen the old home movies of him, waaaaaaaaay back. Based on this, there are a pile of secrets there, and the COC; COG; Baptist; and all sorts will never do more than teach against the things they stand for.
Lastly they are all viscious, and if I hadn't had some good friends, I would have gotten more that I did over exposing the group sex, abuses, crimes about their actual ordination, and there is a list ten feet long.
Any tme anyone wants to find a great attorney, and clean house at TWI, I will contribute, and testify, but remember, the estimater I got was a retainer of $200,000 to start, and one's like Vince Mc Fadden, and Martindale, are not stable, and are viscious.
Thanks for your time,
RonConner
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
I've read Allem's final sharing on his lawsuit against TWI. I was very glad that he seemed content with how it ended. He seemed blessed with all the prayers and help too.
He must have felt a little stung to point out that there was a difference between those that "said" they'd be willing to testify and those that actually did. If I recall correctly he used the phrase "your money where your mouth is." But in a lawsuit where people have to overcome years of TWI mental terrorism, (TWI calls it training) I'm certain that a partial response is to be expected to find those who would willingly subject themselves to cross-examination in a courtroom.
Considering how pervasive the abuse was in TWI I am still stunned at the small numbers of lawsuits. I guess I would like people to be informed on the possibilities of success as this thread developes. I think that it is very likly that people missed out because they have not been informed.
I think one of the most damaging of the old TWI mindsets in regards to folks learning to stand up for themselves is a lack of information along with the old TWI mindset of lockbox.
I WILL HAPPILY CONTINUE TO DEVELOPE THIS THREAD EVEN IF THERE ARE PREDICTIONS OF CHAOS AND/OR DISASTER.
Most of leadership's old "HABITS" in regard to controlling the free flow of information are only self serving manners that were originally taught by scumbags in hiding anyway.
(edited for grammar) p.s. I'm fairly certain that any of my old English teachers may find that comment to be amusing.
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
Share on other sites
Patriot
Sue them??? Nah! www.poopsenders.com
OK- I'm not saying to actually send anything....I just thought the website was absolutely funny!
To think, someone is making money sending several varieties of animal poop. Some zoo keeper who
has to clean it up, figured out a way to actually make money from it. Only in America!
Edited by PatriotLink to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
As I've considered this thread I've considered it likely that the fairly popular public sentiment that relegates people who sue others to some kind of immoral staus may come up. And while I clearly understand that there are frivolous and damaging lawsuits clogging up the U.S. legal system already I have no problem considering anyone who suffered at the hands of TWI as a possible candidate for a just lawsuit.
Families were lost in some cases. Livelyhoods were lost in others. Some abuse victims chose suicide. Others have suffered years of aftereffects in some kind of self destructive behavior best treated by proffesionals.
I refuse to accept bullying that is directed at any of these potentially worthy lawsuit litigants if it is a possible course of action for any of them. And for the bullying that is so subtly done that the bully can even claim deniability, I will simply remember it, period.
I wish that there were more people who participated in the events of the lawsuits that shared there experiences more fully here at the Greasespot Cafe. There seems to be some discussion of the lawsuits, but few substantial and specific stories that seem to have any more depth in them than just a self-serving war story. Now I have "fishing tales" that I can tell of my own life events too, but these fishing tales that I can tell about my own experiences are things that amuse me and they are generally not about serious topics. Frankly most of them are stories about some foolishness of mine, and not so much about my so-called heroism, that is if I chose to go that route.
But as I've stated my feelings about TWI abuse victims who show there genuine bravery by sharing them at the Greasespot, I will not be budged if I chose to feel sympathy and support for genuine abuse victims who chose to go with a lawsuit to get their justice. And I will refuse to give in to cowardly and subtle put downs toward anyone who finally decides to share their own lawsuit experiences for everyone elses benefit either. I will HAPPILY dance that dance too if anyone decides to share.
Please, please share.....
(edited for grammar)
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.