Getting healed

[Twinky]

“By whose stripes you were (past tense) healed…”

“By whose stripes you are (present tense) healed…”

How many times have I heard that? And every time, inside I cringe and think badly of that person: “Go and learn English before you set yourself up as a teacher! If you don’t understand the obvious, do you really understand the obscure?”

If you must, these sentences should read: “By whose stripes you were healed (past tense)…” and “By whose stripes you are healed…” – which is something different again. I understand the verb in the Greek may be in a tense which suggests something that happened in the past with continuing effects in the present, and we don’t have an exact equivalent in English. I don’t want to digress into ancient Greek grammar.

Friends, the “were” part is NOT the verb, as such. The full verb in this tense is “were healed.” It’s compound.

I know where this erroneous understanding comes from. PFAL has Wierwille pontificating and splitting up verbs into parts without recognising that in English sometimes one of the various tenses is formed of more than one word. I don’t Wierwille was expert in either Greek or Hebrew, though he might have had a passing knowledge of both.

“So what?” you might say.

Let’s choose a simple verb: to walk.

We probably all know that “I walk” is not the same in meaning as “I am walking.”

Would you split the latter into: “I am (present tense) walking…”? Actually “I am” is from the verb “to be” which is nowadays only used , in this manner, in dialectical forms of English. “I am” has a whole lot of other connotations relating to permanence (I am black, white; I am tall, small; I am male, female; I am a doctor, a nurse, a journalist…) but not a temporary condition of strolling along a road!

Likewise, “I walked” is not the same as “I was walking” or “I have walked” or “I had walked” or “I did walk.”

Likewise, “I will walk” is not the same as “I shall walk” nor is either the same as “I will/shall be walking” or “I will/shall have walked.”

I’m not setting myself up as an English grammar teacher, though my English, whether written or spoken, is excellent and I have taught English to other people.

I would just like people to think a little more deeply about what they read, and what they repeat, parrot-fashion – and how much richer, much much richer, their understanding would be if basics of English language were understood. English grammar can be studied in great depth. I’m not advocating you take a degree in it. I’m suggesting just enough study to get more out of what you already know – to understand the subtleties of written English. You probably do understand the differences in the tenses even though you can’t quite put your finger on what the differences are or what they mean, and it’s not quite so important in spoken English because there are usually non-verbal clues to a fuller understanding.

Here’s a very simple item I located on the net; you may find other items.

My link

Okay, I’m getting off this soap box for the time being…

[johniam]

quote:

I would just like people to think a little more deeply about what they read, and what they repeat, parrot-fashion – and how much richer, much much richer, their understanding would be if basics of English language were understood. English grammar can be studied in great depth. I’m not advocating you take a degree in it. I’m suggesting just enough study to get more out of what you already know – to understand the subtleties of written English. You probably do understand the differences in the tenses even though you can’t quite put your finger on what the differences are or what they mean, and it’s not quite so important in spoken English because there are usually non-verbal clues to a fuller understanding.

Okay, I’m getting off this soap box for the time being…

Why? You're doing so good. Jesus Christ the same, yesterday, today, and forever. So, if 'by whose stripes' is Jesus Christ's stripes, then the subsequent healing is also yesterday, today, and forever. Past present and future. Either you're healed or you're not. What are you going to confess? Jesus said 'Father, for this purpose was I spared' a positive confession....when he was about to DIE!!! All your soap box amounts to is arguing with God.

[Kit Sober]

When the Jesus and the healing love of His blood invades a place whether it is one thought or one blood vessel or one body part of one person or a room full of people there is no time. And when He does our many thoughts from the Bible all make sense because of His loving life that infuses every word of that most precious book (all versions), in my experience.

I believe that is what Christians are aiming for when they say "I am [already] healed." Not as a mental leapfrog into the future but an effort to put their mind into the attitude that Jesus already has. Pentecost will be in a week. The anniversary came many times prior and the event happened only one time many years ago. But yet we say "Pentecost is coming." Many wonderful Christians believe that God can work through days such as "Pentecost" and "Passover" and many other wonderful observances as windows or "portals" to receive His blessings. And those people prepare their hearts and mind in anticipation of the days' approach and relish in its presence. Like Christmas. There was one Christmas day when Christ was born, and it is celebrated by many every year. And every year we understand a little more of the present of His presence in the Christmas presents we present to and receive from our loved ones, and most of all we present our bodies as living presents to and receive His presence from the Lord Himself, by His mercy and grace.

Edited May 31, 2011 by Kit Sober

[waysider]

quote:

Why? You're doing so good. Jesus Christ the same, yesterday, today, and forever. So, if 'by whose stripes' is Jesus Christ's stripes, then the subsequent healing is also yesterday, today, and forever. Past present and future. Either you're healed or you're not. What are you going to confess? Jesus said 'Father, for this purpose was I spared' a positive confession....when he was about to DIE!!! All your soap box amounts to is arguing with God.

You seem to be the one doing all the arguing. This is a discussion forum, not a platform for your derailing and bully tactics. Either you want to discuss things in a logical, civil manner or you don't. It's your call.

[Twinky]

In case it's not clear to people like Johniam, this thread is NOT about healing. What you said is totally irrelevant to this thread.

This thread IS about the correct use of GRAMMAR and the correct UNDERSTANDING of the English language.

To heal gaps in understanding.

Anyone can stay in their errors if they want to. Their business. Their pride.

I'm just saying: that if one understands correctly, one will get more meaning out of ... anything one reads, not just a Bible.

My vocabulary is great. But you know what? I still look up words I don't know in a dictionary. That way, my understanding increases. I understand the nuances. Same with grammar.

When one understands the pluperfect tense, maybe then there is also scope for a discussion about subjunctives. Subjunctives are very delicately nuanced. There is quite a lot of theology out there that is based on misunderstanding subjunctives. But let's start with the easy stuff.

[Jbarrax]

...There is quite a lot of theology out there that is based on misunderstanding subjunctives. But let's start with the easy stuff.

That's an intriguing statement. Can you give us an example?

BTW, I agree that, in general, our understanding of grammar is atrocious. My pet peeve is when someone is asked how they're doing and they say, "Doing good!". That response has nothing to do with their state of health or wellbeing and instead implies they're actively involved in charitable acts such as helping little old ladies across the street.

The grammatically correct response requires an adverb. "I'm doing very well, thank you."

[waysider]

Well, that's what you get for asking a Boy Scout while he's helping a little old lady cross the street.