Agreed, herbiejuan, abuse is about power over another individual. Instead of just liking himself (or herself), the abuser only feels good when he has proved to himself that he is better than another. He has to win, and control.
There is also an adrenaline rush in winning, which feels good. The abuser continues to seek this rush, and the more the competition becomes commonplace, the more the abuser needs to go further to get that adrenaline "high." Unchecked abuse only escalates.
quote: I've got a few thoughts on the patterns which can be traced pretty much from one type of abuse(genocide) to another (domestic violence, workplace violence etc) but then again I could be mistaken, what say ye?
(bold my emphasis)
I would be very interested to hear your "few thoughts". We have one character at work (who happens to be the boss), who does a magnificent job of verbally abusing both the clients, as well as the staff -- treating all like wayward children.
He is loud, in your face, unforgiving, and when confronted with a mistake he has made, brushes it off as "well -- I'm just human".
Sorry I can't give you more about his back-ground, but suffice it to say -- he is so into control, he could take lcm's place.
Looking forward to hearing your "few thoughts". Perhaps they will help me deal with this guy, and all the crap he throws at us daily.
And also -- the other staff at the group home and I do a lot of discussing about how to deal with this guy, since he is an "institution' there.
We work with him daily, and see the flaws, but if you can offer a new perspective, it would be greatly appreciated. I for one do not believe he is fit for the job, nor do the others I work with. We would be most interested to hear what your ideas about "workplace violence patterns" are all about.
One potential pattern could be (but not always) is...
When the perp, victom or both view abuse as "normal". Sometimes the victom could become the the perp as a learned behavior. Thereby thinking abuse is normal.
This is one of many reasons to make sure that the victom recieves all the help that they might need. This is one way in breaking a cycle of violence and abuse.
Two of the reasons that victoms don't ask for the help that they might need is: Pride and embarrassement. And of course there is always denile as a third reason. Those 3 reasons are why many perps walk free and many victoms don't get help that they might need and might become a perp...
IMO, If someone is a victom. Seeking professional help could be a big help to yourself and possibly the ones that you love. A past hurt might be hindering you from either giving or receiving love.
I believe that when someone has serious control issues such as you have described about your boss it is essential that the person realize that either by your actions and/or words that his behaviour no longer has effect. Once you have accomplished this, the 'perp' will suddenly realize he is 'powerless' and you will have disarmed him.
Now, exactly HOW you would 'disarm' him and the details in HOW to do this is another matter.
Humour sometimes disarms these people who take themselves far too seriously.
Ala -- thank you. Let me mull over what you just said. I've tried the humor aspect, and that does not work, yet - yet - yet -- I think I might see a key in what you are saying. :)-->
quote: I'm beginning to believe that abuse, no matter the style or system (family, governments, religions etc) all follow basically the same pattern and essentially result from an imbalance of power either perceived or real.
I think there are similar patterns but I think the perceived or real imbalance of power is a part of the pattern of abuse and not a cause. It might be considered part of the system or perhaps vehicle of abuse. But it is not the originator, motivator, or fuel for the pattern of abuse. I think those are psychological, emotional, and personality issues that exist in the individual who has the real or perceived power in the abusive situation. The best explanation I have found is that these individuals have a deep seated fear within themselves that they cannot face. As a result they have either created or taken a position of power and authority in order to hide from their own secret fear. In extreme cases they project an image or reflection of their secret fear(s) on those around them over whom they have or take power.
quote: I've got a few thoughts on the patterns which can be traced pretty much from one type of abuse (genocide) to another (domestic violence, workplace violence etc) but then again I could be mistaken, what say ye?
I agree that these patterns can be traced from one type of abuse to another but that you also have to recognize a couple of fundamental differences. One is the difference between abusive systems within a group (family), and abusive systems between groups. The other is how individuals in these abusive systems may have brought patterns or roles in abusive relationships that they replay in the new abusive systems (like child abuse making some people ready victims to VPW etc.). The other is the abusive patterns that are a requirement dictated by the group mentality. An example of this is how TWI II leaders had to become abusive in order to be good leaders. Another example is how the American prison guards in Iraq were encouraged to be come abusive.
quote: And as a follow up question, it would seem then that there would be some common ways to deal with abuse such as education and self empowerment. So what say ye again?
I agree there are some common ways to deal with abuse- the victims when they escape can seek whatever comfort and healing they can find and accept. The true victimizers (who were in the postions of power)- those who absolutely cannot face their inner fears and accept responsibility for the injury they have caused others cannot and will not change for as long as they live.
Hebiejuan- those are my thoughts on this subject- what say ye? :)-->
I think you are right ckeer its much deeper than just the power because while they strive to have the power once they have achieved domination they continue striking out at folks. I think it's probably related to what AA call's character defects which oddly enough have a common denominator called fear.
LCM had fears that the ministry was being taken over by pillow munching fags -->
I'm certain he had delusions of his man'o gawdness ;)-->
and there can be little doubt his perception of his leadership and people skills (research skills public speaking skills ...) was vastly overrated...
I think there should be a law somewhere that when you rise to the top of an org your power over others should decrease proportionatly.
Some people react to having been abused (or controlled, or made afraid) by becoming determined to not perpetuate the cruelty on someone else. Others withdraw from future contacts, or become depressed (anger turned inward). But some get a chip on their shoulder, an attitude of "I'm never gonna let someone hurt my feelings ever again, I'll show them they can't hurt me," and the abuse is passed on.
The victim can sympathize with the abuser in the absract, because, after all, he was a victim at one time, as well. But at the time the abuse is occurring, sympathy and caring will be perceived as weakness and exploited with more abuse. A better tactic, as a la prochaine said, is to take away the power.
If we're talking physical abuse, the survivor needs to get away from the abuser, and get help. Let the law be the power over the abuser. In verbal abuse, a refusal to play the power game can defuse the abuser. Not allowing one's self to be baited into responding with anger, using humor, or dismissing the perpetrator as insignificant are a few tactics.
People who have been sucked into a pattern of receiving abuse (either by their upbringing, or through a long-term, progressively worsening relationship) need to get away from the abuser and build (or rebuild) a sense of what behaviors in a relationship are trivial/excuseable, which need discussion, and which need to be stopped immediately. Then the survivor can get back into a more healthy relationship and insist that those boundaries be honored, though it isn't always easy.
Unfortunately, dmiller, you can't get away from the guy, and he IS in a position of power -- he's your boss. Having already been a survivor of abuse, I would probably get out of the job. But you might not have to if you can do 2 things: not let his junk get to you, and minimize some of his behaviors. Or you could just continue to give him what he wants, and you will eventually get sick or depressed from the stress!
To lessen the stress, remind yourself of how pitiful his attempts at power are. Build your own life away from work -- the best revenge is a successful life. Have less stressful things at work to focus on: fellow employes, a comfortable workspace, a light snack. Keep contact with the guy to a minimum.
To lessen some of his behaviors, try reversing roles, but without the abuse. Teach him like a mother, explaining to him what most people think is proper behavior in that situation, and OF COURSE he already knows that! (Teach him and compliment him at the same time.) Laugh at him. Ignore him. Act as if his barbs were more boring than anything (they hate to lose your attention). Try telling him flat out what you will or will not tolerate. Tell him firmly, but calmly. (I know a dance teacher that actually made her boss write those boundaries into her contract!) He may fire you. He may plot more devious ways to harass you. But I am always amazed at how often these guys crumble when you refuse to be intimidated. They are bullies, looking for the weaker ones to pick on.
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shazdancer
Agreed, herbiejuan, abuse is about power over another individual. Instead of just liking himself (or herself), the abuser only feels good when he has proved to himself that he is better than another. He has to win, and control.
There is also an adrenaline rush in winning, which feels good. The abuser continues to seek this rush, and the more the competition becomes commonplace, the more the abuser needs to go further to get that adrenaline "high." Unchecked abuse only escalates.
Regards,
Shaz
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excathedra
i definitely agree herbie
coming from an abusive childhood helped me feel comfy / normal when it came to wierwille's abuse
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herbiejuan
And so in essence there exists two imbalances, one in the perp and the other in the victim(s)? I think I am confused
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excathedra
i don't know herbie
i do think a perp can spot a victim a mile away
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herbiejuan
Me too so there should be recognisable patterns somewhere.
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dmiller
Herbie -- you said:
I would be very interested to hear your "few thoughts". We have one character at work (who happens to be the boss), who does a magnificent job of verbally abusing both the clients, as well as the staff -- treating all like wayward children.
He is loud, in your face, unforgiving, and when confronted with a mistake he has made, brushes it off as "well -- I'm just human".
Sorry I can't give you more about his back-ground, but suffice it to say -- he is so into control, he could take lcm's place.
Looking forward to hearing your "few thoughts". Perhaps they will help me deal with this guy, and all the crap he throws at us daily.
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dmiller
And also -- the other staff at the group home and I do a lot of discussing about how to deal with this guy, since he is an "institution' there.
We work with him daily, and see the flaws, but if you can offer a new perspective, it would be greatly appreciated. I for one do not believe he is fit for the job, nor do the others I work with. We would be most interested to hear what your ideas about "workplace violence patterns" are all about.
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Zshot
One potential pattern could be (but not always) is...
When the perp, victom or both view abuse as "normal". Sometimes the victom could become the the perp as a learned behavior. Thereby thinking abuse is normal.
This is one of many reasons to make sure that the victom recieves all the help that they might need. This is one way in breaking a cycle of violence and abuse.
Two of the reasons that victoms don't ask for the help that they might need is: Pride and embarrassement. And of course there is always denile as a third reason. Those 3 reasons are why many perps walk free and many victoms don't get help that they might need and might become a perp...
IMO, If someone is a victom. Seeking professional help could be a big help to yourself and possibly the ones that you love. A past hurt might be hindering you from either giving or receiving love.
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A la prochaine
Mr. Music Man,
I believe that when someone has serious control issues such as you have described about your boss it is essential that the person realize that either by your actions and/or words that his behaviour no longer has effect. Once you have accomplished this, the 'perp' will suddenly realize he is 'powerless' and you will have disarmed him.
Now, exactly HOW you would 'disarm' him and the details in HOW to do this is another matter.
Humour sometimes disarms these people who take themselves far too seriously.
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dmiller
Ala -- thank you. Let me mull over what you just said. I've tried the humor aspect, and that does not work, yet - yet - yet -- I think I might see a key in what you are saying.
:)-->
yours -- d"muller"
;)-->
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ckeer
Herbiejuan- I think this is an interesting idea.
I think there are similar patterns but I think the perceived or real imbalance of power is a part of the pattern of abuse and not a cause. It might be considered part of the system or perhaps vehicle of abuse. But it is not the originator, motivator, or fuel for the pattern of abuse. I think those are psychological, emotional, and personality issues that exist in the individual who has the real or perceived power in the abusive situation. The best explanation I have found is that these individuals have a deep seated fear within themselves that they cannot face. As a result they have either created or taken a position of power and authority in order to hide from their own secret fear. In extreme cases they project an image or reflection of their secret fear(s) on those around them over whom they have or take power.
I agree that these patterns can be traced from one type of abuse to another but that you also have to recognize a couple of fundamental differences. One is the difference between abusive systems within a group (family), and abusive systems between groups. The other is how individuals in these abusive systems may have brought patterns or roles in abusive relationships that they replay in the new abusive systems (like child abuse making some people ready victims to VPW etc.). The other is the abusive patterns that are a requirement dictated by the group mentality. An example of this is how TWI II leaders had to become abusive in order to be good leaders. Another example is how the American prison guards in Iraq were encouraged to be come abusive.
I agree there are some common ways to deal with abuse- the victims when they escape can seek whatever comfort and healing they can find and accept. The true victimizers (who were in the postions of power)- those who absolutely cannot face their inner fears and accept responsibility for the injury they have caused others cannot and will not change for as long as they live.
Hebiejuan- those are my thoughts on this subject- what say ye?
:)-->
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herbiejuan
DM you know not what ye ask
I can go on for HOURS on this subject 
:D--> plus I'm taking Abnormal Psych this semester 
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excathedra
Abnormal Psych..... why darn it i think that should be my new handle or whatever is under my name (thank you paw)
i just had a warm fuzzy.... i minored in psych
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herbiejuan
I think you are right ckeer its much deeper than just the power because while they strive to have the power once they have achieved domination they continue striking out at folks. I think it's probably related to what AA call's character defects which oddly enough have a common denominator called fear.
LCM had fears that the ministry was being taken over by pillow munching fags
-->
I'm certain he had delusions of his man'o gawdness
;)-->
and there can be little doubt his perception of his leadership and people skills (research skills public speaking skills ...) was vastly overrated...
I think there should be a law somewhere that when you rise to the top of an org your power over others should decrease proportionatly.
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herbiejuan
Exie...Were you thinking of me when ya had it?
:D-->
Hey my college is one of like 3 colleges teaching humanistic psych. So far I've had intro (of course) developmental, humanistic and now abnormal
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excathedra
absofuzzylutely
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herbiejuan
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ckeer
HerbieJuan- Why doesn't anybody teach a course in normal Psych? Also do they have a course in para-normal psych ?
:)-->
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excathedra
i'm not sure what this means but one of the craziest people i ever met in my life was my abnormal psych professor. god i loved him
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
What a "kewl" relay of words~~~
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excathedra
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha EXACTLY
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
dig that one too
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herbiejuan
Yeppers they do WGC offers quite a wide range of courses for a small town college
:)-->
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shazdancer
ckeer, I hear ya.
Some people react to having been abused (or controlled, or made afraid) by becoming determined to not perpetuate the cruelty on someone else. Others withdraw from future contacts, or become depressed (anger turned inward). But some get a chip on their shoulder, an attitude of "I'm never gonna let someone hurt my feelings ever again, I'll show them they can't hurt me," and the abuse is passed on.
The victim can sympathize with the abuser in the absract, because, after all, he was a victim at one time, as well. But at the time the abuse is occurring, sympathy and caring will be perceived as weakness and exploited with more abuse. A better tactic, as a la prochaine said, is to take away the power.
If we're talking physical abuse, the survivor needs to get away from the abuser, and get help. Let the law be the power over the abuser. In verbal abuse, a refusal to play the power game can defuse the abuser. Not allowing one's self to be baited into responding with anger, using humor, or dismissing the perpetrator as insignificant are a few tactics.
People who have been sucked into a pattern of receiving abuse (either by their upbringing, or through a long-term, progressively worsening relationship) need to get away from the abuser and build (or rebuild) a sense of what behaviors in a relationship are trivial/excuseable, which need discussion, and which need to be stopped immediately. Then the survivor can get back into a more healthy relationship and insist that those boundaries be honored, though it isn't always easy.
Unfortunately, dmiller, you can't get away from the guy, and he IS in a position of power -- he's your boss. Having already been a survivor of abuse, I would probably get out of the job. But you might not have to if you can do 2 things: not let his junk get to you, and minimize some of his behaviors. Or you could just continue to give him what he wants, and you will eventually get sick or depressed from the stress!
To lessen the stress, remind yourself of how pitiful his attempts at power are. Build your own life away from work -- the best revenge is a successful life. Have less stressful things at work to focus on: fellow employes, a comfortable workspace, a light snack. Keep contact with the guy to a minimum.
To lessen some of his behaviors, try reversing roles, but without the abuse. Teach him like a mother, explaining to him what most people think is proper behavior in that situation, and OF COURSE he already knows that! (Teach him and compliment him at the same time.) Laugh at him. Ignore him. Act as if his barbs were more boring than anything (they hate to lose your attention). Try telling him flat out what you will or will not tolerate. Tell him firmly, but calmly. (I know a dance teacher that actually made her boss write those boundaries into her contract!) He may fire you. He may plot more devious ways to harass you. But I am always amazed at how often these guys crumble when you refuse to be intimidated. They are bullies, looking for the weaker ones to pick on.
Food for thought, I hope,
Shaz
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