Thanks for bringing this up. I missed the post by Ala on this subject but have been thinking the same thing recently. I think most of us do or did have co dependent characteristics who were in the way. Also, in Beattie's book, she mentions that no two co dependents have all of the same characteristics but if you have a lot of them, you probably are.
Here's another one, Imbus, that comes to mind often: If it's to be it's up to me.
That used to take me down a very self-destructive path. I'm so very happy that now I've learned to LET the Lord arrange things and work situations out in his own time and way. Sometimes, many times, the most spiritual thing we can do is to pray about something and then leave it alone.
Here's one I like better and try to remember: Get out of the way!! So true, and the little play on words ALSO so true!
It was not until after I left TWI and began attending ACOA (Adult Children of Alcoholics) meetings regularly that my eyes were opened to realize what a dysfunctional, co-dependent lot the WC was with VPW as its alcoholic, also dysfunctional, "father figure" at the head.
Some of the stories of WC were amazing - the vast majority of us were a dysfunctional lot - not too many healthy people would have stayed, let alone go into the WC. We were a big, happy, dysfunctional family following the father figure.
Anyone who understands psychology knows, that a nation will follow to the death a leader who reminds them of that country's father figure archtype (Hitler, the stern father, Stalin the Russian jovial, harsh father, etc.).
The leadership in the WC used massive peer pressure and the concept of "commitment" - we were dog soldiers, doulouses, etc., etc. to keep us conformed. It was a very co-dependent relationship.
Although I think the reason TWI began to fail with LCM's ascension, is because LCM was and is not a father figure to anyone.
I've thought this and said it for a while here... TWI's whole goal was to make us co-dependent... that's what a cult is "extreme" codependency to the point of blindness to logic...
...I once heard co-dependency defined as "taking your temperature to see how I feel"...
quote:Some of the stories of WC were amazing - the vast majority of us were a dysfunctional lot - not too many healthy people would have stayed, let alone go into the WC. We were a big, happy, dysfunctional family following the father figure.
I suppose some folks were dysfunctional, but saying this about the vast majority is nothing more than a blanket put-down of commitments that folks made to want to love God more, and keep walking on the word more, after getting born again. Also, if the commitment was made to Father Wierwille, how does that explain folks staying around for years after his death? Or staying faithful to the word after his death (via twi and offshoots)
quote:Although I think the reason TWI began to fail with LCM's ascension, is because LCM was and is not a father figure to anyone.
I think it was more like things like POP happening, and later with Craig's smokeouts and Rosie's and Donna's legalism.
Sunesis, I've thought the same thing since I've been going to Al Anon. I truly believe anyone who wants to be delivered from the self destructive thinking that we either learned or had reinforced in the way would benefit from going to those meetings. We do not give each other pity, but rather study Al Anon literature and share how we have apply the 12 steps in our lives and how that leads to the way out of co dependent thinking and into sanity. Everyone doesn't share everytime. A lot of times I just listen and learn. I'm improving.
I know for myself the most powerful prayer I can pray to start my day is the Serenity Prayer.
God, grant me the serenity to acceept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And the wisdom to know the difference.
Wisdom to know the difference,that's a good one.
Healthy Neutrality comes to mind when I think of my codependency. Being neutral in all things and not allowing myself to get hooked into others drama or chaos amotionally.
I believe your right about bonding to a father figure(V.P) in the WC. It was recycling what we experianced as children. For those of you who did not come out of TWI or the WC with Codependency...LUCKY YOU!
Females are more apt to be codependent then males. Our society on a sub-conscious level influences and aims the role of care-taking to women. The same goes for traditional Christianity. Look at the Jobs that women fill in relation to their counter parts. Nursing, Social intrest,etc...
We have come a long way and our male counter parts are steping more into care-taking social shoes.
. Feels sad that they spend their whole lives giving and nobody gives to them.
. Feel board,empty and worthless if they don't have a crisis in their lives, aproblem to solve or somone to help.
.Abandon their routine to respond to or do somthing for somebody else.
. Focus their energy on other peoples problems.
. Try to prove they are good enough for people.
Well just a few. I remember being a WOW and every action was CD based. I was not aware of it though.
ONe last thing... The Anxeity I experianced in my life I thought were personal attack of the advisary. I had no idea it was from PTSD and General anxeity diorder. Years of thinking I was under attack or that I was out of fellowship.
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waterbuffalo
Thanks for bringing this up. I missed the post by Ala on this subject but have been thinking the same thing recently. I think most of us do or did have co dependent characteristics who were in the way. Also, in Beattie's book, she mentions that no two co dependents have all of the same characteristics but if you have a lot of them, you probably are.
Here's another one, Imbus, that comes to mind often: If it's to be it's up to me.
That used to take me down a very self-destructive path. I'm so very happy that now I've learned to LET the Lord arrange things and work situations out in his own time and way. Sometimes, many times, the most spiritual thing we can do is to pray about something and then leave it alone.
Here's one I like better and try to remember: Get out of the way!! So true, and the little play on words ALSO so true!
Wb
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Sunesis
It was not until after I left TWI and began attending ACOA (Adult Children of Alcoholics) meetings regularly that my eyes were opened to realize what a dysfunctional, co-dependent lot the WC was with VPW as its alcoholic, also dysfunctional, "father figure" at the head.
Some of the stories of WC were amazing - the vast majority of us were a dysfunctional lot - not too many healthy people would have stayed, let alone go into the WC. We were a big, happy, dysfunctional family following the father figure.
Anyone who understands psychology knows, that a nation will follow to the death a leader who reminds them of that country's father figure archtype (Hitler, the stern father, Stalin the Russian jovial, harsh father, etc.).
The leadership in the WC used massive peer pressure and the concept of "commitment" - we were dog soldiers, doulouses, etc., etc. to keep us conformed. It was a very co-dependent relationship.
Although I think the reason TWI began to fail with LCM's ascension, is because LCM was and is not a father figure to anyone.
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Tom Strange
I've thought this and said it for a while here... TWI's whole goal was to make us co-dependent... that's what a cult is "extreme" codependency to the point of blindness to logic...
...I once heard co-dependency defined as "taking your temperature to see how I feel"...
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oldiesman
I think it was more like things like POP happening, and later with Craig's smokeouts and Rosie's and Donna's legalism.
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gladtobeout
Imbus
Wow, so many of those characteristics define ME
:(-->
I still have so much changing to do.
Thanks greasespotters for all you do
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waterbuffalo
Sunesis, I've thought the same thing since I've been going to Al Anon. I truly believe anyone who wants to be delivered from the self destructive thinking that we either learned or had reinforced in the way would benefit from going to those meetings. We do not give each other pity, but rather study Al Anon literature and share how we have apply the 12 steps in our lives and how that leads to the way out of co dependent thinking and into sanity. Everyone doesn't share everytime. A lot of times I just listen and learn. I'm improving.
WB
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Shellon
This also puts me in mind of the trust thread.
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imbus
I know for myself the most powerful prayer I can pray to start my day is the Serenity Prayer.
God, grant me the serenity to acceept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And the wisdom to know the difference.
Wisdom to know the difference,that's a good one.
Healthy Neutrality comes to mind when I think of my codependency. Being neutral in all things and not allowing myself to get hooked into others drama or chaos amotionally.
I believe your right about bonding to a father figure(V.P) in the WC. It was recycling what we experianced as children. For those of you who did not come out of TWI or the WC with Codependency...LUCKY YOU!
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Danny
From one bad father to a nut.
That was me.
OM you weren't corp what do you know? At least speak of something you know about.
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imbus
Waterbuffalo... wonderful imput.
Sunese... good insight.
TL... your so right,Twi was a breading ground for Codependency.
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Shellon
Danny said: OM you weren't corp what do you know? At least speak of something you know about.
=============================================
huh? am I to understand that only folks here that were corps know of what they speak in re: to twi or any of the info here?
help me out here, cuz I sure don't get your comment.
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diazbro
well for many of us TWI was something we joined
with during our youth and it represented a tangible attempt at understanding the more serious aspects of life and spirituality so
we typicall deferred to leaders and those who
appeared to know more than us. So during this
time I don't think that a case for co dependency
could be made. We just flat out followed requests without question because we thought
that was the thing to do.
Now over time when the reproof became abundant
,as did screaming and yelling at people , its
quite possible that many of us modified our behavior to appease leaders while hoping to
prevent further outbursts. This is co depdendent
behavior but still most thought that there was
something wrong on a personal basis so it was
still like "well I guess I messed up else
they wouldn't be yelling at me".
And then eventually it became apparent that
these guys were running a game - they would
repeove you for nothing just as a means to
insure your continued and future compliance.
Leaders attempted to create a state of hyper vigilance and continual urgency so you could never really be relaxed. And if you yourself
were okay they would find something wrong with
the way you kept house or they way your spouse
behaved. They wanted you to forever be appeasing
them.
So at first I don't think it was codependent
behavior but man TWI had a good training program for it.
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oldiesman
Danny I am. The folks I knew who were corps weren't mindless helpless co-dependent dysfunctional idiots. I wouldn't put you and others down like that.
TWI has no power over you except that which your actions allow.
-Zixar
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Schwaigers
Check this out. It's a SUPER article about Christians and codependency. -Pat
http://www.nacronline.com/dox/library/donsmith.shtml
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imbus
Here are a few more characteristics of CD.
Females are more apt to be codependent then males. Our society on a sub-conscious level influences and aims the role of care-taking to women. The same goes for traditional Christianity. Look at the Jobs that women fill in relation to their counter parts. Nursing, Social intrest,etc...
We have come a long way and our male counter parts are steping more into care-taking social shoes.
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imbus
OOOOOPPPPPSSSS, I erased the CD part... how did I do that? I really need a class on this puter. Will include it tomarrow.
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waterbuffalo
Oldies quote:
I would watch putting all of those adjectives together, if I were you. Some of them may apply to yourself (because you also were in the way).
Just an observation...
WB
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imbus
Here is some more of the list.
. Rejects compliments or praise.
. Think your not good enough.
. Be afraid of making mistakes.
. Feels sad that they spend their whole lives giving and nobody gives to them.
. Feel board,empty and worthless if they don't have a crisis in their lives, aproblem to solve or somone to help.
.Abandon their routine to respond to or do somthing for somebody else.
. Focus their energy on other peoples problems.
. Try to prove they are good enough for people.
Well just a few. I remember being a WOW and every action was CD based. I was not aware of it though.
ONe last thing... The Anxeity I experianced in my life I thought were personal attack of the advisary. I had no idea it was from PTSD and General anxeity diorder. Years of thinking I was under attack or that I was out of fellowship.
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excathedra
i'm glad you're posting here sweet imbus
thanks
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