quote: It does make sense now, since all you seem to look at and focus on are his sins and works of the flesh, therefore naturally, that's all you're going to think has any significant meaning, from God's perspective, would be his evil works. Therefore you conclude that was the sum total of his life, end of story.
All I am looking at, and thinking of, are the words --- Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, and few there are that find it.
dmiller, don't let anyone talk you out of the redemptive powers of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Your sins have been paid for ...
1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
Geeze folks, if that's all God looked at and focused on in our lives, our evil works, our sins, our works of the flesh -- and condemned us forever because of it, then I think we are in some deep doo doo.
Come to think of it, he did look at all that ... and that's why he sent us a solution to all that ... he's called Jesus Christ.
OM, he also spent a great deal of time talking about the "flesh" and "evil works". Are you saying that John 3:16 is more important than raping young women? That that part of God's word is more important than the scriptures that tell us how to act and live?
Please expand on what you stated and how it relates to VPW and the BOT. We learn in the epistles that folks who are born again are heaven bound, saved, having eternal life.
I don`t think *confession of belief* applies in this situation oldies lol....no matter HOW many times you profess your belief in vp`s spiritual nature....it wont alter the evidence of the fruit...and the consequences there of.
Rascal, there's also spiritual fruit evidenced in VPW's life. If he was all about evil works and that's it, I don't think we'd even be here on this board talking.
I'm not and never have denied VPW's walking in the flesh, and walking by his old man nature. I've said it over and over again, that he committed evil works. But, I observe it is YOU who deny anything spiritual and godly about the man. It seems you define him by his sins, and that's it. That's why I say you are full of hate; because you haven't been reasonable or objective at all.
Nope..not full of hate..lol....I don`t know why you view galations as not being reasonable or objective.....I guess because you don`t want to believe THAT part of the scriptures....your protestations will not change the fruit of the flesh in vpw`s life nor the consequences he will face one day according to scripture..
No hate ... no sweat off my brow....the dude will be in deep kimshee if galations is true...and it`s all his doing....I don`t understand why you are mad at me for what he did.
Just because he was your pal and treated you nice doesn`t mean that he wasn`t a unscrupulous scum bag.....and making ME look bad isn`t gonna change what he was.
quote:Nope..not full of hate..lol....I don`t know why you view galations as not being reasonable or objective.....I guess because you don`t want to believe THAT part of the scriptures....your protestations will not change the fruit of the flesh in vpw`s life nor the consequences he will face one day according to scripture..
I don't believe Galatians the way you're interpreting it, cause among other things, it contradicts a whole lot of other scriptures. Should I throw everything else out, and simply believe what you are saying irrespective of anything else? Doesn't the contradiction of Galatians (the way you're interpreting it) with John and Romans and Ephesians make you pause at all? Make you consider any other possibilities?
It shows how we are to identify someones spiritual nature.....not going to argue with it.
I didn`t see vpw manifesting the fuit of the spirit when he was hurting our sisters and I will not excuse clear implication of the fruit that he DID display.
You are the one who has a problem with the scripture...I am sure that you can find plenty to twist to support your view point ... you learned from a master manipulator.
I chose to have no respect for one who chose to be evil whgile claiming to work for God....again, you read my lack of respect and my absolute disgust as hate....you are mistaken.
well It would seem that galations is the key to telling us whether or not john romans etc ARE applicable to an individual or not.
You want to apply scriptures that are concerning born again christians to men of the flesh and wolves in sheepes clothing... galations simply tells us how to tell the difference between the two...
Well if you insist on using the bible scripture as your Standard Rascal how bout Romans 3:23 that states For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God"?
or Romans3 10-12
There is no one righteous not even one there is no one who understands no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless there is no one who does good not even one.
Matthew 16:27 States a person reward will be according to what he has done.
1 corintians 3 12-15 talks about the foundaton and the work will be shown for what it is, revealed with fireand test the quality of EACH mans work. If it survives he will recieve a reward 15) if it is burned he will suffer loss. it means what he/she has done that failed the test not the person him/her self.
2 corinthians 5:10 for we all appear before the judgement seat of Christ that each one may recieve what is due him for the things done while in the body whether good or bad.
so folks in the body of christ can do bad things and still belong to God and have eternal life.
it will be Christ who judges what we did on earth while born again and under His Lordship .
Mj, Galations tells us HOW to tell the difference between a man of the flesh and a man of the spirit...period...argue all you want, it wont change what the criteria is.....(no doubt so as to be a warning so folks wouldn`t fall for precisely the trap we did)
Wierwilles actions land him in the flesh catagory...galations says (not rascal)...that he has no inheritance in the kingdom of God...
I think that the scriptures you are flinging about are not aplicable to a man of the flesh.
Make any excuse you please...Go ahead spout scipture that doesn`t apply...it wont change what galations says nor change the fruit in wierwilles life....nor the consequences in store for one who chose to live a life that manifested such fruit.
Galations 2:15 We.. know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus christ.
Would that be the verse Rascal ?
which bible verse tells you anyone who is born again and confesses Jesus is Lord which I heard vpw say on many occasion myself says he can lose it because he had works in the flesh ?
no excuses claim the scripture teach me something please.
translated gods gifts and Gods call are under full warranty-never canceled never rescinded!!!!!!
Salvation is a gift.
it is a new birth(salvation means born again or new birth) birth is a permanent thing no one can climb back into a womb and say IM not born and it is the same with being born again! cool right!
a one time thing that can not be undone!
adoption is another term used for salvation In Roman law a naturally born child could be disowned but not an adopted child! so in writing to the Romans people, which is who Galations is written to God used the word adoption so they would understand the salvation was permanent!!!!
Another beauty is Ephesians 1:13,14
13)
And you also were included in christ when you heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation. Having believed you were MARKED in him with a seal, then promised holy spirit.
here it is Rascal !!!!1 the big one
14) which is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance.!!!!!!!!
sealed means it can not leak out !!!!!and that seal is a garuntee of eternal life your inheritance with the Lord!!!!
mj, None of which applies to galations 5:19 -21 which tells us how to identify what a person is by the fruit that is displayed in their life....be they of the flesh or of the spirit...and what is in store for them.
I have no respect for a man of the flesh who masqueraded as a man of the spirit...
I have no respect for those who would try to excuse a man of the flesh`s attributes and try to pass him off as a man of the spirit.
Take it up with God n tell HIM you don`t like the measuring stick provided in galations..I don`t care.
VP`s spiritual state is an assumption on your part mj......nothing that you have posted changes what galations says....nor what the consequences are in store for one who choses to live as a man of the flesh.....
He fooled many many people...but he can`t fool God...his fruit bears unimpeachable testimony as to the state of his spiritual life.
quote:14) which is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance.!!!!!!!!
sealed means it can not leak out !!!!!and that seal is a garuntee of eternal life your inheritance with the Lord!!!!
Mj, I agree with everything you've shared on this. I still believe that we're born again of uncorruptible seed! Walking by the old man doesn't change or destroy that, thank God.
I remember as a youngster in the Roman Catholic church, I was taught that I must confess my sins before I died, otherwise I wouldn't be exonerated. But then I wore a cloth pendant, hoping that if I forgot to confess a sin, it would be covered and forgiven. But I'm so glad I learned the truth and now don't have to worry about whether God really loves me, or whether he's going to let me live in his kingdom or not.
And let's not forget Mary the Mediatrix. "Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, amen." How many Hail Mary's will get one into heaven? I'm glad I'm not under that yoke any longer.
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dmiller
All I am looking at, and thinking of, are the words --- Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, and few there are that find it.
(my para-phrase).
Makes me wonder about myself, much less docvic.
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oldiesman
dmiller, don't let anyone talk you out of the redemptive powers of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Your sins have been paid for ...
1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
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Belle
OM, he also spent a great deal of time talking about the "flesh" and "evil works". Are you saying that John 3:16 is more important than raping young women? That that part of God's word is more important than the scriptures that tell us how to act and live?
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oldiesman
Trick question, Belle. I try to steer clear of them. What do you think?
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Catcup
Catcup:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't have the privilege of sending anyone one place or the other. Nor would I want the responsibility.
I'm just tellin' ya what the man said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please expand on what you stated and how it relates to VPW and the BOT. We learn in the epistles that folks who are born again are heaven bound, saved, having eternal life.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Not everyone who saith unto me 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven: but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you suggesting then that VPW and others who are born again may not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, because of their evil works?
-or-
Are you suggesting that VPW and the BOT, because of their evil works, aren't saved?
Please explain."
My pleasure. I'll do it with your own quote:
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oldiesman
I think VPW was born again/saved/converted. And I believe God when he says that those that are saved have everlasting life.
Your turn ...
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rascal
I don`t think *confession of belief* applies in this situation oldies lol....no matter HOW many times you profess your belief in vp`s spiritual nature....it wont alter the evidence of the fruit...and the consequences there of.
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oldiesman
I'm waiting to hear Catcup's opinion.
Rascal, there's also spiritual fruit evidenced in VPW's life. If he was all about evil works and that's it, I don't think we'd even be here on this board talking.
I'm not and never have denied VPW's walking in the flesh, and walking by his old man nature. I've said it over and over again, that he committed evil works. But, I observe it is YOU who deny anything spiritual and godly about the man. It seems you define him by his sins, and that's it. That's why I say you are full of hate; because you haven't been reasonable or objective at all.
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rascal
Nope..not full of hate..lol....I don`t know why you view galations as not being reasonable or objective.....I guess because you don`t want to believe THAT part of the scriptures....your protestations will not change the fruit of the flesh in vpw`s life nor the consequences he will face one day according to scripture..
No hate ... no sweat off my brow....the dude will be in deep kimshee if galations is true...and it`s all his doing....I don`t understand why you are mad at me for what he did.
Just because he was your pal and treated you nice doesn`t mean that he wasn`t a unscrupulous scum bag.....and making ME look bad isn`t gonna change what he was.
Your buddy was a slime ball....
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oldiesman
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rascal
Ummm nope...galations is pretty cut and dry.
It shows how we are to identify someones spiritual nature.....not going to argue with it.
I didn`t see vpw manifesting the fuit of the spirit when he was hurting our sisters and I will not excuse clear implication of the fruit that he DID display.
You are the one who has a problem with the scripture...I am sure that you can find plenty to twist to support your view point ... you learned from a master manipulator.
I chose to have no respect for one who chose to be evil whgile claiming to work for God....again, you read my lack of respect and my absolute disgust as hate....you are mistaken.
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Catcup
Catcup:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't have the privilege of sending anyone one place or the other. Nor would I want the responsibility.
I'm just tellin' ya what the man said.
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oldiesman
No point in continuing to argue about this. You don't think VPW is saved, but I do.
Catcup, your view?
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rascal
well It would seem that galations is the key to telling us whether or not john romans etc ARE applicable to an individual or not.
You want to apply scriptures that are concerning born again christians to men of the flesh and wolves in sheepes clothing... galations simply tells us how to tell the difference between the two...
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pjroberge
My opinion:
Was VPW saved? Maybe
Was VPW working for god? Yup
Who was the god VPW worked for is the question?
I think he worked for the god mentioned in John 10:10(a) serving the lusts of the flesh which are the fruits of VPW's and TWI's master satan.
Why beat around the bush? Weren't we taught in the advanced class that any good evil did, had to come at the cost of greater evil?
TWI's was speaking from experience, their experience as to who they are in opposition to the body of Christ.
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Catcup
For some reason, you haven't gotten my point.
I said it's not my job to send VPW to one place or the other. Nor do I want that responsibility.
I turn him over to God and leave him in His hands for justice.
God will do as He sees fit.
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mj412
Well if you insist on using the bible scripture as your Standard Rascal how bout Romans 3:23 that states For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God"?
or Romans3 10-12
There is no one righteous not even one there is no one who understands no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless there is no one who does good not even one.
Matthew 16:27 States a person reward will be according to what he has done.
1 corintians 3 12-15 talks about the foundaton and the work will be shown for what it is, revealed with fireand test the quality of EACH mans work. If it survives he will recieve a reward 15) if it is burned he will suffer loss. it means what he/she has done that failed the test not the person him/her self.
2 corinthians 5:10 for we all appear before the judgement seat of Christ that each one may recieve what is due him for the things done while in the body whether good or bad.
so folks in the body of christ can do bad things and still belong to God and have eternal life.
it will be Christ who judges what we did on earth while born again and under His Lordship .
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rascal
Mj, Galations tells us HOW to tell the difference between a man of the flesh and a man of the spirit...period...argue all you want, it wont change what the criteria is.....(no doubt so as to be a warning so folks wouldn`t fall for precisely the trap we did)
Wierwilles actions land him in the flesh catagory...galations says (not rascal)...that he has no inheritance in the kingdom of God...
I think that the scriptures you are flinging about are not aplicable to a man of the flesh.
Make any excuse you please...Go ahead spout scipture that doesn`t apply...it wont change what galations says nor change the fruit in wierwilles life....nor the consequences in store for one who chose to live a life that manifested such fruit.
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mj412
Galations 2:15 We.. know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus christ.
Would that be the verse Rascal ?
which bible verse tells you anyone who is born again and confesses Jesus is Lord which I heard vpw say on many occasion myself says he can lose it because he had works in the flesh ?
no excuses claim the scripture teach me something please.
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mj412
A couple more for ya Rascal.
Romans 11:29
For God;s gifts and HIS call are IRREVOCABLE!
translated gods gifts and Gods call are under full warranty-never canceled never rescinded!!!!!!
Salvation is a gift.
it is a new birth(salvation means born again or new birth) birth is a permanent thing no one can climb back into a womb and say IM not born and it is the same with being born again! cool right!
a one time thing that can not be undone!
adoption is another term used for salvation In Roman law a naturally born child could be disowned but not an adopted child! so in writing to the Romans people, which is who Galations is written to God used the word adoption so they would understand the salvation was permanent!!!!
Another beauty is Ephesians 1:13,14
13)
And you also were included in christ when you heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation. Having believed you were MARKED in him with a seal, then promised holy spirit.
here it is Rascal !!!!1 the big one
14) which is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance.!!!!!!!!
sealed means it can not leak out !!!!!and that seal is a garuntee of eternal life your inheritance with the Lord!!!!
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rascal
mj, None of which applies to galations 5:19 -21 which tells us how to identify what a person is by the fruit that is displayed in their life....be they of the flesh or of the spirit...and what is in store for them.
I have no respect for a man of the flesh who masqueraded as a man of the spirit...
I have no respect for those who would try to excuse a man of the flesh`s attributes and try to pass him off as a man of the spirit.
Take it up with God n tell HIM you don`t like the measuring stick provided in galations..I don`t care.
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mj412
the bible says Jesus didnt trust any man he knew what was in them .
the plain fact is vpw will live in the kingdom Rascal he was born again.
what type and who he pleased or didnt is of no concern for me that is Jesus Christ Job and he will melt all the justice needed at the bema!
yeah hoo!
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rascal
VP`s spiritual state is an assumption on your part mj......nothing that you have posted changes what galations says....nor what the consequences are in store for one who choses to live as a man of the flesh.....
He fooled many many people...but he can`t fool God...his fruit bears unimpeachable testimony as to the state of his spiritual life.
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oldiesman
I remember as a youngster in the Roman Catholic church, I was taught that I must confess my sins before I died, otherwise I wouldn't be exonerated. But then I wore a cloth pendant, hoping that if I forgot to confess a sin, it would be covered and forgiven. But I'm so glad I learned the truth and now don't have to worry about whether God really loves me, or whether he's going to let me live in his kingdom or not.
And let's not forget Mary the Mediatrix. "Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, amen." How many Hail Mary's will get one into heaven? I'm glad I'm not under that yoke any longer.
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