Reputations

[Galen]

Hope R.:

"You're right - the Branch Leaders _were_ corps - but they didn't make the call. The Louisiana Limb guy was the one who called _them_ to WARN them about this guy. That's the way it usually worked. The old leaders called the new ones with the "dirt". Or they were told at some meeting or the ROA. Otherwise, you're right, no one called to "check up" on people for the most part."

Oh I see, the previous guy called ahead to warn those in the area where you were going to.

Ouch.

"I don't understand what you mean by "No body could be called to check on us"... Did the people who kicked you out in '80 and '93 leave the area you had been in?"

In 1980, it was Steve Strezpec, I have no idea what he did or if he was moving. Again it was the first time I had ever met a corpse-grad I was on active-duty, he came to Twig and made a big scene because he did not want this couple to be married. He was told that I had done the wedding. He confronted me. I said but they need the wedding as they are shipping out of the area soon. Steve than told us all that he had been 'counseling the couple' but that he had no real intention of ever truly performing a wedding for a non-corpse couple. He was just going to lie to them and string them along, until they finally gave-up. He announced that I was born of the Adversary for using my ordination from another church and 'threw' me out. A few months later, I was transfered to Virginia. I doubt whether Steve ever knew my name, I certainly doubt whether he ever knew where I was being transfered to. I doubt whether he ever knew where the newly-wed couple was transferring to [Hawaii, and yes they are doing great, I still talk with them]. In Virginia we contacted HQ and located a local Twig. The locals were wonderful and life marched on. We ran more PFAL classes. I remember being 'drafted' into a group to see the Va Limb Coordinators off at an airport once, I did not recognize them, but they were the Limb Coordinators [was it Barb and Tom Lally?]. I doubt whether they ever put it together that we had once been up in Ct. I doubt whether they ever knew our names. Our 'seeing' or 'meeting' them was in the context of attending a Limb function, so it would have been a crowd of hundreds in Virginia Beach. Bonnie remembers it because we were introduced as "The Outer Surrounding Areas Twig" from Newport News. I dont think they ever knew our names. They were the only Corpse that we had contact with in Va. We just ran classes.

In 1993 [we were again serving in CT, I was working as an MP and I was the Subase Police Department Chaplain] We got 'new' Limb Coordinators into the area, and they wanted to travel around the state and visit each Twig. They spent an evening with our twig, and a few weeks later called to tell us that it had bothered them that some of the couples in our twig had been married by me. [The previous Limb Coordinator had supplied me with a TWI course on beta 'How to perform a wedding" I still have a copy. He had encouraged each twig to be self-supporting and to take care of our own needs, after all who else was going to, if not the Twig Coordinator?]. This new guy [darn I can't re-call his name] said that he was insulted that since he could not perform weddings, that I could, so he 'threw' us out. Again at the time, I already was at the end of my tour, and had orders in hand sending me to my next sub. I left the area and went to that boat [uSS Casimir Pulaski in Charlestown SC], called HQ found the local Twig, was soon appointed Protestant Lay-Leader on-board that boat and had a Twig under-water. Again I doubt the Ct Limb Coordinator ever knew where I was being transferred to, or cared. Nobody in SC ever called Ct [as far as I knew] they were just glad to have another believer in the area and on that boat. The boat only stayed in SC for a year, then we changed homeport to Bremerton Wa. Where we found a Twig, again ...

"We are not on any list of M&A either - we never even got a letter. It was spread around by word-of-mouth that we got kicked out."

Oops my bad, sorry.

Later we once had two corpse-couples assigned to our Twig, they were both on 'suspended' status. While talking to them, I got the idea that there existed some hard-copy listing of "Marked and Avoided" corpse.

Thus it was my understanding that Joe Beleiver was "flying below the Corpse radar", and we could more or less travel around the world as our professions required, getting envolved with Twigs anywhere we went, without the M&A tagline still being attached to us.

That was kind of how we ended up with Country-Coordinator titles for a short while. CC-for-Americans-stationed-in-Scotland. Gartmore House was friendly and inviting for Sunday service, but not for running PFAL classes or handling blue-forms. So we had to contact Paul Norcross [the international military outreach coordinator] and work-out what to do with blueforms and PFAL classes while running a Twig in Scotland.

:-)

[Oakspear]

Galen:

You must have driven some "leadership" folks crazy :P-->

Here you are, performing weddings, even though you are just a lowly "Joe Believer", getting kicked out, then resurfacing somewhere else in the world.

I can just see it: "Well, we've gotten rid of him...hey, who's that in the second row?"

[Abigail]

Interesting, Galen. My first fellowship coordinators were corps. grads who got married in CT. When our region coordinator found out they were married by someone who "was not supposed to perform their wedding ceremony" they were publicly reproved and shipped off to another state.

After I left TWI, I attended a graduation party with my then husband, it was held by the branch coordinators. The region coordinators attended as well - they were new to this region and had never met me before. When introductions were being made, they were very friendly and chatty for about 30 seconds. Once they heard my name they took off like bats out of hell and never even looked at me again. I thought it was pretty funny at the time. It showed me they were more afraid of me than I ever had been of them.

[Oakspear]

I don't remember ever hearing who was supposed to do weddings in TWI.

Early on I assumed it was ordained clergy. Later a non-Corps twig coordinator performed a wedding in Spanish, mainly because none of the reverends or other Corps in the area could speak Spanish.

I always got the impression that they wanted to hold control of who was getting married in the hands of an area's top leadership (LC, RC etc) - and not just let anybody perform weddings.

[mj412]

I was marked and avoided . I was told over the phone not to go to fellowship "for awhile" at the time I was very upset and crying about when I could return the answer was when the fellowships are better and healthier and things where less stressful for me in my personal life.

I always assumed I could go back, the BC who marked me left the area that year and VF left the way. ( I didnt know that at the time)

I did ask him what he was going to tell everyone. we were running a twig at the time.. He said he would have a "meeting with the other twig leaders and tell them I could not go to fellowship.

I never recieved a "letter" the other person involved did call headquaters and got no response that pleased him I just obeyed.

so anyways years later about 6 or 7 maybe more a couple that knew me from the days gone by and I assume knew I was asked not to go to fellowship began a twig with the way international.

So I went I went to branch meetings and "limb meeting which was less than one hundred people at the time. The state leader was BT he certainly knew of where I came from he was at headquaters for years .

but I didnt stay . I stopped going to fellowship.

but I still have friends that I got into the way that also knew I was marked and they speak to me and we have gotten together.

I have spoken to the area fellowship coordiators on the phone and in persn and they invited me to attend although I declined.

I have a huge reputation within those who "know" what happened in my situation, very sensational really and I was told I was "marked and avoided". But with the understanding it was only a temporary situation untill things got better. which with Gods holy grace they really did!!!!

I never had anyone bring it up to me in future encounters with folks involved in the way. some had to know who we were and the story . it was indeed quite serious at the time.

BUT

I have had idiots who have left the way approach me with lies from the pit of hell about what they had "heard" and were convinced really happened. funny thing those idiots we were talking about my own life and my situation and yet they KNEW better than myself what happened!! What is up with that?

I know for a fact the area leaders "know" because my friend told them (he has a big mouth and loves me LOL) they never condemed me and ionsisted in conversation the past leaders are all gone for a reason such as my story. true enough they are all gone.

I so as far as reputations in twi, I would say for the most part my experience has been they do not rely on the good or bad of what people may say or have said but rely on what they consider to be the word for them today in a clean household.

I personaly do not engage in hear say or gossip so I may be out of that loop all together. I go to the person directly and deal with them on a honest base line.

[Abigail]

When I left, the official word given to those still in was that I was "taking a short break". But I had one friend who was still in and she knew better. Eventually, she too decided to leave because she didn't like the way they were treating her daughter. They tried to talk her into staying by telling her I was coming back - LOL LOL, yeah, she would buy that.

Sometime later, I was taking college courses and had a class with a woman who was still in. She was very friendly to me during that first class and I even gave her a ride home afterward. But she never showed up to that class again and my ex (who was also still in) said she came to fellowship all ....ed off that I seemed to be doing so well and was so happy.

[Galen]

Oakspear:

"You must have driven some "leadership" folks _crazy_ "

Such was not our intention. We were jsut trying to minister to G-d's people as best we could.

Who ever heard of a church that could not even marry their own people. I am still amazed when I speak with people to discover they were previously followers of The Way International Ministry; and how many of them were married by a Justice of the Peace.

"Here you are, performing weddings, even though you are just a lowly "Joe Believer", getting kicked out, then resurfacing somewhere else in the world. I can just see it: "Well, we've gotten rid of _him_...hey, who's that in the second row?" "

LOL, yes well.

There were beleivers who we have ran into again and again over the years, but it was never the 'leadership', it has been mostly the military servicemembers that have been in our fellowships. They have been glad to see us again, each time. It is interesting to consider, with each move, generally other servicemembers knew us or had been in our fellowships from previous duty-stations. But they obviously never told any of the visiting corpse about our previous run-ins with leadership.

We just figured that someone was looking out for us, to help us. Bonnie has commented to me that she thought it odd, how we never did wear-out our welcome in a limb, until we already had orders 'in hand' shipping us out to our next duty-station.

[Watered Garden]

Galen,

I wish I'd been in your and Bonnie's twig. Sounds like y'all were doin' it right!

Love,

WG

[Galen]

Abigail:

"Interesting, Galen. My first fellowship coordinators were corps. grads who got married in CT. When our region coordinator found out they were married by someone who "was not supposed to perform their wedding ceremony" they were publicly reproved and shipped off to another state."

Okay fine, when did they get married in Ct?

I thought that I had pretty much kept track of all weddings that I have done. I did not think that any of them had gone corpse. I could be in error.

"After I left TWI, I attended a graduation party with my then husband, .... I thought it was pretty funny at the time. It showed me they were more afraid of me than I ever had been of them."

LOL

Oakspear-

Bonnie and I found a Baptist minister to marry us [he and I rode motorbikes together]. Bonnie was an advanced class grad and I was a foundational class grad at the time. But being in Ct, we had no clergy within the ministry who was willing or able to perform the duties of a clergy.

[excathedra]

quote:

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excathedra:

"galen, just because you know someone by their initials doesn't mean you were an "insider." i think it means you knew the same people"

In a ministry of thousands, scattered over such a huge area, stretched out for 40 years? Yes I think it does, sorry.

:-)

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i see your point. maybe i was an insider, didn't feel like it though, felt like a schmuck (sp?)

quote:

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"i don't think this discussion has anything to do with having ministered to people"

I thought that was supposed to be what we were [are] doing. My bad.:-)

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well that's what i was doing back then, but no more

[Abigail]

Galen,

Check your private topics. I think it was before you were there, now that I think back on the years.