Sickness is a part of our life whether we like it or not. To say it is death in part is completely ludricous! That's like saying the glass is half empty.
Prov. 3:5-6:
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
vpw's statement that "...sickness is death in part or in whole..." is consistent with homeopathic thinking, which is based on hermeticism.
WW, who was that homeopathic physician that gave vpw "..a great understanding & appreciation of the human body...?"
Homeopathy: An Introduction for Skeptics and Beginners
Richard Grossinger
North Atlantic Books, 212 pages, $ 12.95 Richard Grossinger's Homeopathy: An Introduction for Skeptics and Beginner's was originally published in a shorter and less detailed version in Planet Medicine: From Stone Age Shaminism to Post-Industrial Healing. In 1994, rewriting Planet Medicine, Grossinger decided to remove the homeopathic material from that book and publish it as a separate small volume. Grossinger locates homeopathy as a healing system historically and ideologically, pointing out that in Hahnemann's turn of the nineteenth century era, vitalism, hermeticism and pharmacology were closely united and there was no such thing as mainstream practice and alternative medical systems.
One of the biggest problems in understanding occurs when we isolate a sentence out of a context of which it was used The following is a transcript of a section of session 33 of VPW Advanced Class.
If it was ever God's will not to heal, people He would have to revamp His entire kingdom, and He would have to redesign the whole human body. For class, the basic nature of the human body is always to heal itself, if the cause is removed. And sometimes, people I think even many times, in spite of the cause.
You get a little splinter under your finger, The moment that splinter hits, you have an "ouchie" and the ouchie has just informed your mind that there has been an invasion. And immediately, the whole nature of the human body goes into operation. And they have a special dispensation or something, or an emergency or something, that just sends white corpuscles up there. Man, they come in by the millions. They just bombard that little old splinter underneath that finger. They hit like crazy, and every time they hit it they die, and they keep hitting it-keep hitting it-keep hitting it and they keep dying. And before long it looks real white around it.
Every one of those white corpuscles has died, so that you may live.
Because they've given their life so that you may live, they have isolated the infection of that foreign entrance. And they have died in the process, and you call it puss or matter that’s white corpuscle like stuff that has died, they build up in there. The nature of the human body is to heal itself. Leave it there long enough, it'll finally come out by itself, because they just keep bombarding it until finally they'll drive the enemy out. Cause it's a foreign thing. A person would die, every individual in here tonight would die, if a little splinter went under your fingernail, if the nature of the human body was not to heal itself. We'd get an infection and we'd die And yet God's so wonderfully and beautifully made the human body, that any time something comes in that’s not supposed to be there, everything in that body, with everything God has formed and made, goes to work to isolate it, to stop it from it's activity, and if at all possible, to discard it from that body. That’s why I define sickness as death, in part or in whole. The moment that splinter hits, it's already sickness in death, in part or in what? Whole. Already.
On the opposite side, healing is life, deliverance, in part or in whole as the need requires........
It just occurred to me that the homeopathic or osteopathic female physician to whom veepeeweewee referred was Dr. E.E. Higgins.
From Dr. John Juedes website:
One of Rev. Wierwille's students In his first Power for Abundant Living class was Dr. E.E. Higgins, whose interest in his research greatly aided him. He notes that she gave him his first copy of E.W. Bullinger's How to Enjoy the Bible.(49) Wierwille has since shown a great interest in Bullinger's work. In fact, The Way's current bookstore catalogue offers for sale four of Bullinger's books. However, Wierwille never mentions Bullinger's 1905 book The Giver and His Gifts, in spite of the fact that it has been in print in recent years. Why does Wierwille neglect to mention this book?
Perhaps the answer to this question lies in the fact that Wierwille's Receiving the Holy Spirit Today includes material that is found also in Bullinger's 1905 The Giver and His Gifts. Sections of Wierwille's third edition, published in 1957 with 164 pages, and of every edition since then bear unmistakable similarity to
Bullinger's material. This is evident in significant portions of Wierwille's Introduction and Appendices 2 and 3. Every section of Bullinger's book has been included in Wierwille"s book in some form and the content, general conclusions and in many places even the wording closely match.(50)
Technically, neither The Giver and His Gifts nor The Gift of the Holy Spirit may have been legally protected by copyright at the time Wierwille compiled Receiving the Holy Spirit Today. Nonetheless, scholarly practice is to quote even uncopyrighted sources, which include such things as unpublished theses, newsletters, archives, government documents, correspondence and personal interviews. One who incorporates another man's work while presenting it to the reader as original work certainly falls short of the scholarly integrity the secular world expects and, more important, displeases God as well.
OK, I just read this thread and I cannot find any fault with the statement that sickness is death in either part or in whole.
The way I see it there is alot of truth to be had from what we heard in these classes. If we keep putting every phrase that ever proceeded out of VPW's mouth under a microscope we will be pretty miserable people.
I remember Martin Luther made the statement something to the effect that " I pass gas in Whitenburg and they examine it in Rome"
"Health is life in part" Yeah, O.K. And just what does the sloganizing do for anyone?
It's all meaningless semantic juggling. It seems like you're saying something profound when in actuality you're communicating nothing.
George it is not often I agree with you but I think you are most correct in this case, then again if someone speaking saying nothing were a crime we'd have a lot of people in trouble wouldn't we. Anyway the point was to keep the record straight. In the context of where it was used I don't think it is in error, although it is not particularly useful either. But it has nothing to do with sin consciousness and was balanced with teaching about deliverance and healing in it's original usage.
I think it's more than the words used by vee pee and craiggers - it's the IMPLICATIONS, the GUILT and the OPPRESSION and ABUSE that came along with those words.
I'm still looking through my notes about SIT and being born again, but I found this in my notes from the Intermediate Class of craig's on page 36. My personal notes added at the time of the class which are quotes of craig are in italics.
Matthew 9:6,8
Power = "exousia" He had the privilege to forgive sin and to heal. Healing is the mainfestation that especially brings into reality God's willingness to forgive sin. He exercised his privilege and authority. All sickness is due to broken fellowship of man
Oakspear- what is there to partially agree with? the term alot of truth to be had is pretty clear - not 100% not 1% but "alot".
VPW lived a long time and wrote alot of things and spoke many sermons. Maybe we need someone like you to keep examining his things. I prefer to look at a few in light of what I need at any particular time, glean the truth I can from it and move on.
If I get hung up on any one thing too long it distracts me from my big goal - My face on a Wheaties box
Oakspear- what is there to partially agree with? the term alot of truth to be had is pretty clear - not 100% not 1% but "alot".
VPW lived a long time and wrote alot of things and spoke many sermons. Maybe we need someone like you to keep examining his things. I prefer to look at a few in light of what I need at any particular time, glean the truth I can from it and move on.
If I get hung up on any one thing too long it distracts me from my big goal - My face on a Wheaties box
I agree that there is truth, I disagree that there is a lot. I disagree that Wierwille's classes are the places to be searching for the truth.
One of the biggest problems in understanding occurs when we isolate a sentence out of a context of which it was used The following is a transcript of a section of session 33 of VPW Advanced Class.
If it was ever God's will not to heal, people He would have to revamp His entire kingdom, and He would have to redesign the whole human body. For class, the basic nature of the human body is always to heal itself, if the cause is removed. And sometimes, people I think even many times, in spite of the cause.
You get a little splinter under your finger, The moment that splinter hits, you have an "ouchie" and the ouchie has just informed your mind that there has been an invasion. And immediately, the whole nature of the human body goes into operation. And they have a special dispensation or something, or an emergency or something, that just sends white corpuscles up there. Man, they come in by the millions. They just bombard that little old splinter underneath that finger. They hit like crazy, and every time they hit it they die, and they keep hitting it-keep hitting it-keep hitting it and they keep dying. And before long it looks real white around it.
Every one of those white corpuscles has died, so that you may live.
Because they've given their life so that you may live, they have isolated the infection of that foreign entrance. And they have died in the process, and you call it puss or matter that's white corpuscle like stuff that has died, they build up in there. The nature of the human body is to heal itself. Leave it there long enough, it'll finally come out by itself, because they just keep bombarding it until finally they'll drive the enemy out. Cause it's a foreign thing. A person would die, every individual in here tonight would die, if a little splinter went under your fingernail, if the nature of the human body was not to heal itself. We'd get an infection and we'd die And yet God's so wonderfully and beautifully made the human body, that any time something comes in that's not supposed to be there, everything in that body, with everything God has formed and made, goes to work to isolate it, to stop it from it's activity, and if at all possible, to discard it from that body. That’s why I define sickness as death, in part or in whole. The moment that splinter hits, it's already sickness in death, in part or in what? Whole. Already.
On the opposite side, healing is life, deliverance, in part or in whole as the need requires........
I fail to see any IMPLICATIONS, the GUILT and the OPPRESSION and ABUSE in this explanation of what he meant by his words. He talked about white corpuscles,how the body functions,healing, and deliverance. I see no where any mention of condemnation guilt oppression abuse. This is exactly what I mean by proof,not just making $*@! up. You have nothing to offer as proof so now it becomes well it's not really the words it's this. So where does he imply any of these things?
WD, you're hung up on vee pee's teachings. vee pee all but disappeared in the 90's. I just gave you a quote - typed in the syllabus - anyone with the syllabus can verify.
Craig said: "All sickness is due to broken fellowship of man"
The wages of sin are death - if someone is sick, it's because they have sinned - if they have sinned, they are heading toward death. It takes "getting back into fellowship" to escape that impending death.
If you want to talk about what vee pee taught, I can't say - I don't know because I wasn't taught what vee pee taught. What craig taught has very little resemblance to what vee pee actually taught.
Ok Belle I was trying to keep the twi's straight a good point that you made. You keep including VP in your comments then you say you were speaking of Craig. Read your remark:
Quote Belle
I think it's more than the words used by vee pee and craiggers - it's the IMPLICATIONS, the GUILT and the OPPRESSION and ABUSE that came along with those words. Quote
It appears you were including him in your remarks by the mention of his name coupled with and Craig. I am not hung up on his teachings the question was about the phrase 'Sickness is death in Part' from the Advanced Class. I referenced VPW class because that is the root of where the phrase came from in Craigs class. I offered it for comparison so Like a Eagle could see it's meaning. I prefaced it with this
Quote Whitedove:
One of the biggest problems in understanding occurs when we isolate a sentence out of a context of which it was used The following is a transcript of a section of session 33 of VPW Advanced Class.
If Craig isolated a sentence out of context then that is the problem seeing the source helps to identify that problem.
QuoteBelle:
I just gave you a quote - typed in the syllabus - anyone with the syllabus can verify.
Craig said: "All sickness is due to broken fellowship of man"
That’s a different quote than we were discussing I made no remark concerning that quote. We were discussing the quote 'Sickness is death in Part' This exactly what I was talking about in the other thread you substitute Quotes and think it somehow makes the other untrue. Having put the other quote to rest we can now discuss the new one.
hypothermia-body dropping in temperature. The human body will retract blood from limbs to protect inside organs and keep them warm...now, that is a Godly design.
Wierwille's quote above is a wonderful testimony to the way a body ordinarily self heals, indeed is designed to do such. But I fail to see how that description leads to the conclusion that sickness is death in part. More like sickness, unless it results in death, is an opportunity for life to assert itself.
When I originally heard the quote it went " Sickness is death in whole or in part." Not much different - and it doesn't really seem that counterintuitive... but I believe that it was one of the many quotes that begat a like of its own (in whole or in part) and was used to manipulate people.
You know, I have looked back many times and realized that we all became part of the problem. VP, Craig, various and sundry sleezy Limb coordinators, - they all got their power from our unwillingness to really think about what they were doing and saying. it was always too easy to dismiss their words as "the words of the man of God"
This is not to say that they were innocent. Just like we reverenced them for having a greater knowledge - they were responsible for how they used that knowledge.
I have been involved in many things since TWI - two splinter groups and some churches. Strangely enough - the leaders of the splinter groups ended up being guilty of the same things VP and LCM were guilty of - Infedelity, sexual misconduct, financial hanky panky, manipulation of the word for their own gain. There is a report that says that when a Baptist convention goes to a hotel that the porn purchased over cabel goes through the roof. - maybe its the incognito thing. I think its a lack of accountability.
Both VP and LCM along with many others made sure that they were innoculated against being accountable by making it very very scary for anyone who called them on the carpet. Now to me THAT is also death in part or in whole. It is death of the soul and it is much graver than the death of the body.
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dmiller
I think docvic taught that too (it sounds familiar), but I don't remember if it was part of the AC or not.
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ToadFriend
It was ... I first took the Advanced Class at HQ in 1973, and it was a part of the syllabus and the teaching then, too ...
TF
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dmiller
Thank you. I knew it sounded familiar. :)
David
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Nottawayfer
Sickness is a part of our life whether we like it or not. To say it is death in part is completely ludricous! That's like saying the glass is half empty.
Prov. 3:5-6:
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
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GT
Being a TWIt is death in part.
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jkboehme
vpw's statement that "...sickness is death in part or in whole..." is consistent with homeopathic thinking, which is based on hermeticism.
WW, who was that homeopathic physician that gave vpw "..a great understanding & appreciation of the human body...?"
Homeopathy: An Introduction for Skeptics and Beginners
Richard Grossinger
North Atlantic Books, 212 pages, $ 12.95 Richard Grossinger's Homeopathy: An Introduction for Skeptics and Beginner's was originally published in a shorter and less detailed version in Planet Medicine: From Stone Age Shaminism to Post-Industrial Healing. In 1994, rewriting Planet Medicine, Grossinger decided to remove the homeopathic material from that book and publish it as a separate small volume. Grossinger locates homeopathy as a healing system historically and ideologically, pointing out that in Hahnemann's turn of the nineteenth century era, vitalism, hermeticism and pharmacology were closely united and there was no such thing as mainstream practice and alternative medical systems.
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WhiteDove
One of the biggest problems in understanding occurs when we isolate a sentence out of a context of which it was used The following is a transcript of a section of session 33 of VPW Advanced Class.
If it was ever God's will not to heal, people He would have to revamp His entire kingdom, and He would have to redesign the whole human body. For class, the basic nature of the human body is always to heal itself, if the cause is removed. And sometimes, people I think even many times, in spite of the cause.
You get a little splinter under your finger, The moment that splinter hits, you have an "ouchie" and the ouchie has just informed your mind that there has been an invasion. And immediately, the whole nature of the human body goes into operation. And they have a special dispensation or something, or an emergency or something, that just sends white corpuscles up there. Man, they come in by the millions. They just bombard that little old splinter underneath that finger. They hit like crazy, and every time they hit it they die, and they keep hitting it-keep hitting it-keep hitting it and they keep dying. And before long it looks real white around it.
Every one of those white corpuscles has died, so that you may live.
Because they've given their life so that you may live, they have isolated the infection of that foreign entrance. And they have died in the process, and you call it puss or matter that’s white corpuscle like stuff that has died, they build up in there. The nature of the human body is to heal itself. Leave it there long enough, it'll finally come out by itself, because they just keep bombarding it until finally they'll drive the enemy out. Cause it's a foreign thing. A person would die, every individual in here tonight would die, if a little splinter went under your fingernail, if the nature of the human body was not to heal itself. We'd get an infection and we'd die And yet God's so wonderfully and beautifully made the human body, that any time something comes in that’s not supposed to be there, everything in that body, with everything God has formed and made, goes to work to isolate it, to stop it from it's activity, and if at all possible, to discard it from that body. That’s why I define sickness as death, in part or in whole. The moment that splinter hits, it's already sickness in death, in part or in what? Whole. Already.
On the opposite side, healing is life, deliverance, in part or in whole as the need requires........
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George Aar
Well the converse must be true then also:
"Health is life in part" Yeah, O.K. And just what does the sloganizing do for anyone?
It's all meaningless semantic juggling. It seems like you're saying something profound when in actuality you're communicating nothing.
And Homeopathy is about as pointless, empty, and misguided of a discipline as WayWorld itself. IMNSHO of course...
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jkboehme
It just occurred to me that the homeopathic or osteopathic female physician to whom veepeeweewee referred was Dr. E.E. Higgins.
From Dr. John Juedes website:
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Out There
OK, I just read this thread and I cannot find any fault with the statement that sickness is death in either part or in whole.
The way I see it there is alot of truth to be had from what we heard in these classes. If we keep putting every phrase that ever proceeded out of VPW's mouth under a microscope we will be pretty miserable people.
I remember Martin Luther made the statement something to the effect that " I pass gas in Whitenburg and they examine it in Rome"
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WhiteDove
George it is not often I agree with you but I think you are most correct in this case, then again if someone speaking saying nothing were a crime we'd have a lot of people in trouble wouldn't we. Anyway the point was to keep the record straight. In the context of where it was used I don't think it is in error, although it is not particularly useful either. But it has nothing to do with sin consciousness and was balanced with teaching about deliverance and healing in it's original usage.
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Digitalis
whitedove ...... thanks for you post from the class it clears up the whole point.
George ....... I also agree with you on this.
Negative statements vs positive statements
Negative statements or what seems to sound negavitive have a negative wrong doing impact upon our brains.
Positive statements which could be utilized just as easy have a maturing effect on our brains.
Digi
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WordWolf
He made that comment about white blood cells at least
one other place and time.
(Possibly ROA '77 which was on Healing.)
I challenge his explanation on how white blood cells work.
They don't "keep hitting an invader until it's pushed out",
they disintegrate it by attacking cell by cell.
Then again, why did he think he knew anything
about MEDICINE in the first place?
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Oakspear
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Belle
I think it's more than the words used by vee pee and craiggers - it's the IMPLICATIONS, the GUILT and the OPPRESSION and ABUSE that came along with those words.
I'm still looking through my notes about SIT and being born again, but I found this in my notes from the Intermediate Class of craig's on page 36. My personal notes added at the time of the class which are quotes of craig are in italics.
Matthew 9:6,8
Power = "exousia" He had the privilege to forgive sin and to heal. Healing is the mainfestation that especially brings into reality God's willingness to forgive sin. He exercised his privilege and authority. All sickness is due to broken fellowship of man
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Out There
Oakspear- what is there to partially agree with? the term alot of truth to be had is pretty clear - not 100% not 1% but "alot".
VPW lived a long time and wrote alot of things and spoke many sermons. Maybe we need someone like you to keep examining his things. I prefer to look at a few in light of what I need at any particular time, glean the truth I can from it and move on.
If I get hung up on any one thing too long it distracts me from my big goal - My face on a Wheaties box
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Oakspear
Good luck on the gleaning
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WhiteDove
I fail to see any IMPLICATIONS, the GUILT and the OPPRESSION and ABUSE in this explanation of what he meant by his words. He talked about white corpuscles,how the body functions,healing, and deliverance. I see no where any mention of condemnation guilt oppression abuse. This is exactly what I mean by proof,not just making $*@! up. You have nothing to offer as proof so now it becomes well it's not really the words it's this. So where does he imply any of these things?
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Belle
WD, you're hung up on vee pee's teachings. vee pee all but disappeared in the 90's. I just gave you a quote - typed in the syllabus - anyone with the syllabus can verify.
Craig said: "All sickness is due to broken fellowship of man"
The wages of sin are death - if someone is sick, it's because they have sinned - if they have sinned, they are heading toward death. It takes "getting back into fellowship" to escape that impending death.
If you want to talk about what vee pee taught, I can't say - I don't know because I wasn't taught what vee pee taught. What craig taught has very little resemblance to what vee pee actually taught.
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WhiteDove
Ok Belle I was trying to keep the twi's straight a good point that you made. You keep including VP in your comments then you say you were speaking of Craig. Read your remark:
Quote Belle
I think it's more than the words used by vee pee and craiggers - it's the IMPLICATIONS, the GUILT and the OPPRESSION and ABUSE that came along with those words. Quote
It appears you were including him in your remarks by the mention of his name coupled with and Craig. I am not hung up on his teachings the question was about the phrase 'Sickness is death in Part' from the Advanced Class. I referenced VPW class because that is the root of where the phrase came from in Craigs class. I offered it for comparison so Like a Eagle could see it's meaning. I prefaced it with this
Quote Whitedove:
One of the biggest problems in understanding occurs when we isolate a sentence out of a context of which it was used The following is a transcript of a section of session 33 of VPW Advanced Class.
If Craig isolated a sentence out of context then that is the problem seeing the source helps to identify that problem.
QuoteBelle:
I just gave you a quote - typed in the syllabus - anyone with the syllabus can verify.
Craig said: "All sickness is due to broken fellowship of man"
That’s a different quote than we were discussing I made no remark concerning that quote. We were discussing the quote 'Sickness is death in Part' This exactly what I was talking about in the other thread you substitute Quotes and think it somehow makes the other untrue. Having put the other quote to rest we can now discuss the new one.
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likeaneagle
hypothermia-body dropping in temperature. The human body will retract blood from limbs to protect inside organs and keep them warm...now, that is a Godly design.
opposite of the way tree in the past years.
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Oakspear
Wierwille's quote above is a wonderful testimony to the way a body ordinarily self heals, indeed is designed to do such. But I fail to see how that description leads to the conclusion that sickness is death in part. More like sickness, unless it results in death, is an opportunity for life to assert itself.
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doojable
When I originally heard the quote it went " Sickness is death in whole or in part." Not much different - and it doesn't really seem that counterintuitive... but I believe that it was one of the many quotes that begat a like of its own (in whole or in part) and was used to manipulate people.
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doojable
You know, I have looked back many times and realized that we all became part of the problem. VP, Craig, various and sundry sleezy Limb coordinators, - they all got their power from our unwillingness to really think about what they were doing and saying. it was always too easy to dismiss their words as "the words of the man of God"
This is not to say that they were innocent. Just like we reverenced them for having a greater knowledge - they were responsible for how they used that knowledge.
I have been involved in many things since TWI - two splinter groups and some churches. Strangely enough - the leaders of the splinter groups ended up being guilty of the same things VP and LCM were guilty of - Infedelity, sexual misconduct, financial hanky panky, manipulation of the word for their own gain. There is a report that says that when a Baptist convention goes to a hotel that the porn purchased over cabel goes through the roof. - maybe its the incognito thing. I think its a lack of accountability.
Both VP and LCM along with many others made sure that they were innoculated against being accountable by making it very very scary for anyone who called them on the carpet. Now to me THAT is also death in part or in whole. It is death of the soul and it is much graver than the death of the body.
OOPPS - I thonk I just got off topic - my bad...
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