TWI is fundamentally built on an incorrect, false, and dangerous theology. It is like a snake. It can shed its skin, but underneath the dead skin, it's still a snake. IMHO
Gillian, you never know when the words you speak will make a difference. I would say that as long as theyare willing to have dialogue, though small, there is a chance that God might use you or something you say to connect the dots for this innie.
It may not even be now....but years down the road, your words/actions will germinate.
I remember being this way..... I would still be in myself it it weren`t for the twig moving out of the area....making excuses....convincing myself that it is all right.
My suggestion to you ....if you care.....is to be your wonderfull loving self....no confrontation...any attempt to open their eyes would be viewed as satanic of course.......I would want my life, my actions my words to reflect that God was still the center of my universe....that he loved and blesses us where ever we are ..... that I had found nurture and continued growth....
Let her see (without saying it) that the ministry was wrong about people who leave....it will speak volumes that you have not become a raving lunatic....that you don`t get struck down with horrible disease and death.....you know, all of the stuff that we were scared into staying with.
Then when the crisis hits...and we KNOW that it will.... your friend will be able to think ...well geee whiz Gillian has been out all of this time and is fine....maybe the fear wont be there to leave....does this make any sense?
I like to think that my life is the * in your face PROOF * that twi was wrong about a lot of things....that folks will see the hand of God`s blessing wherever I fellowship.
As far as the minitry changing? Yeah some of the practices may have changed due to legal litigation and an attempt to stop folks from leaving.....but is that really change? If it isn`t Godly repentance....then is it worth anything at all?
Repentance entails apology, restitution, asking forgiveness, scripturally twi is still not a Godly ministry ...according to the standard God established for one who harms a brother....
The reference to people leaving the area ....maybe their new leadership is fine and a blessing....that just means their old leadership is torturing an entirely new group of innocent folks :(
May want to clear one thing up.. You may not know that there is a "Mary Poppins" that posts here. I am pretty sure it is not the one and the same.
markomalley, Right on brotha. Can't say it any better.
As rascle said, be yourself with her. Try and leave the door open to her because when and if she leaves she may think you are the only friend she has on the outside of that cozy little cornfield cult.
Many thanks. I was thinking of keeping the door open and just not responding. Of courses she is now planning to wait until the Bema, LOL, so we never know. I just find it so hard to believe (even tho this person does not have a computer) that otheres who lurk here haven't explained the facts of life to her.
I took care of Mary Poppings haha, didn't know there was one here. No offense, all the names etc. are fictional.
I may still, when I can think straight, drop a note and try to be nice. It just gets you nuts when you were the one that undershepherded this person that after 26 years and a very close relationship, they can remain so lame. At least call and talk on the phone. I cannot believe how much fear is motivating them :blink: .
Agreed, terribly frustrating.... but understand, as her undershephereder...even though decades past...I`ll bet there is some respect and love still there on her part.
Anything anti ministry or attempt at reasoning you write will be viewed as evil of course.......I would try to be gracious and kind, treat her like an overly excitable two year old...you know?
I would just gush about how pleased that I am to hear from her, share some fun stuff from my own life...ask her about hers....etc. You might be her only life line....but spook her n she`ll cut it and drown.
They got rid of it, did they? Then I would ask this person one thing: When will The Way International send out letters of apology to all those whom they marked and avoided? If The Way International ditched the policy, they must have
1.) Finally admitted they actually had the policy, which btw they are on court records as denying they ever had, and
2.) If they admit they used a wrong policy against people in the past, then they must know they wronged many people.
Where is their admission of guilt, retraction of policy, and profuse apologies to all those who were victims of that policy for years?
Remember how Dr. Wierwille ran his ministry? That's how it is now.
Now that is frightening.
Mrs. Wierwille fell asleep Sept 1.
It was Mrs. Wierwille, who after VPW's death remarked to a poster here, that her husband "was a mean man." That was the kindest thing his wife had to say about her husband to this person.
Things and classes have changed.
Specifically what things and classes and how have they changed?
you still a member in particular in the "family" of God & I'll see you at the Bema.
How very condescending.
So any suggestions as to whether or not I should bother to respond to this
I'd certainly ask her the above questions if it were me. And like rascal said... be nice. But you can nonchalantly ask the questions in a way that is non-threatening. For example, "You mean they dropped the mark and avoid policy? Wow. So, when is The Way International going to contact all those people they marked and avoided and let them know they are no longer marked and avoided?" And, "How wonderful that things have changed! Exactly what changes have been made where and what were the results?"
As an aside-- Right after Christmas my husband and I dropped by to see his elderly mother, who lives with his innie brother. After we checked on her and as we were leaving, he made sure to tell us we were "always welcome here." A very changed tune from when he wrote his brother a quite hateful note and sent it to him for his birthday shortly after we left TWI.
They want us back, but they don't want to admit to the inhumane treatment they gave to thousands of people.
Not admitting their mistakes to and apologizing to the people they actually hurt indicates they aren't sorry for our sakes they did it. They are only sorry for their own.
We happened to have with us a guest who had never been a part of TWI and until right before we got out of the car had no idea what TWI was. When we left, she remarked how the house decor seemed "unnaturally and compulsively perfect," how odd it was there were no family photos in the livingroom, just posters, how my brother-in-law kept nervously picking the lint off his shirt, and various other oddities. BTW she is in criminal justice and forensics, and has a trained eye for incongruous detail.
It seemed odd to me as well. The livingroom was so typically set up with two queen-anne style wingback chairs facing two couches arranged "just perfectly" for a teaching setting, along with the fake ficus palms. Why is it Wayfers love to set up their livingrooms like a set from the stage of the Weird Over the World Auditorium?
No one really lives there after all, now, do they?
Gillian, first accept my apology for coming down a bit hard on you in another thread! It was more the tone of the thread I was annoyed with.
Anyway, I'd respond. I'd respond lovingly, tell her it was wonderful to hear from her. I'd then tell her how blessed your life is, maybe some major things going on. Let her see you are not a greasespot. I'd also tell her, you are blessed being a member of the whole Body of Christ, and how much there is, and you cannot limit yourself to one tiny organization anymore (where in the Bible does it say TWI is the one and only true Christian organization?)
I'd also tell her, since neither of you are planning to die soon, perhaps she could come visit you now (get her on your turf) before the Bema - why does she want to wait until the Bema? There's plenty of time to visit now, in our earthly bodies. That may make her think a bit.
I'd also maybe say, at this point, there is nothing TWI could possibly offer you, its had its run, time to move on. Its kind of like, remember McDonalds when it first started out? It was a tiny little drive in. As us babyboomers grew up and changed, so did McDonald's. As we got older, they added seats indoors, when we had kids, they added playgrounds, then they made really fancy ones. TWI has not gotten past the drive-in stage, and never will.
I'd also tell her, since neither of you are planning to die soon, perhaps she could come visit you now (get her on your turf) before the Bema - why does she want to wait until the Bema? There's plenty of time to visit now, in our earthly bodies. That may make her think a bit.
It will also highlight whether she genuinely wants to make a meaningful contact with you, or truly wants to relieve her own concerns about still never really seeing you again.
I remember shortly before I made the decision to leave, finding we were already being "written off." At a fellowship, one little boy who was a playmate of my daugher-- I think he was probably 7 years old or less-- came up and told her he would miss her, but he would see her at the bema!!!!! My daughter wondered if he was sick and was going to die. But I heard and saw the exchange, and knew exactly where it came from and what was coming down the pike.
The idiocy and arrogance of these people still makes me want to puke.
It amazes me that they truly do not understand how arrogant they sound. Or perhaps they know and don't really care.
I might have too much cynic in me...but I just can't shake the feeling that this is a letter that all "believers" were asked to write to those that "have left the fold." I can just hear it now, "There are some out there who have left that are feeling sorry and alone. The devil is having his say with them because they left the family of God. Write to them and let them know how welcomed they are. Blah blah blah...yadda yadda yadda." It's a way to get more ABS money in the coffers.
Nevertheless, this letter does have heart. All the others are exactly right. B yourself. Be kind and gentle and let your lfe be a glowing example that there is life after TWI.
If in fact TWI has "changed their tune" regarding their mark and avoid policy, it can only be because they realize they were wrong to have done it and have regrets.
They have figured out not how it hurt those they levied the policy against, but how it impacted them: It severely cut the numbers of people they could boast, emptied money from their coffers, and robbed them of not only the money that would have been coming in, but also robbed them of the fellowship of some people they actually used to enjoy, and made for unhappy family relationships among many of their innies.
Again, it's all about what they lost, not about what harm they did to others.
(Gillian note: HERE IT COMES) (ROFLMAO spilling my coffee on my computer)No One is "mark & avoided". They got rid of that. Remember how Dr. Wierwille ran his ministry? That's how it is now.
If twi-2 really did change the m&a policy, I believe I know a way to find out.
For anyone who was marked and avoided: simply call the way bookstore and ask to purchase something. If you are allowed to purchase, then they changed their m&a policy.
Because it has been a policy from the early 90's, that those of us (not just m&a but everyone) who no longer fellowshipped with twi-2 couldn't purchase from the bookstore, period. But, a couple of years ago, they changed the policy to allow everyone to purchase except "marked and avoided" folks.
So simply, if anyone who previously was marked and avoided can purchase NOW, then they changed the m&a policy.
If in fact TWI has "changed their tune" regarding their mark and avoid policy, it can only be because they realize they were wrong to have done it and have regrets.
They have figured out not how it hurt those they levied the policy against, but how it impacted them: It severely cut the numbers of people they could boast, emptied money from their coffers, and robbed them of not only the money that would have been coming in, but also robbed them of the fellowship of some people they actually used to enjoy, and made for unhappy family relationships among many of their innies.
Again, it's all about what they lost, not about what harm they did to others.
May I add. It has not changed their theology except in that one area. If that is the case they changed it because it is all about them and not the innies.
In my opinion, this is nothing more than a despicable, strategic cultic [thought reform] re-triggering attempt.
I know ex-twi who left twi for 2 to 5 years, only to be triggered to return to twi's vomit due to apparent 'out of the blue' contact from an innie who was a close friend or at least had some connection to the person.
Re-triggering often works for ex-cult members who have not been sufficiently exit-counseled by a certified mental health professional, such as a psychologist, counseling social worker, or psychiatrist.
These unfortunate folks have a large amount of 'waybrain' of which they are not aware; for the bedazzling voice of TWI, via its anchors, pacing, & leading, has laid down many implicit 'memories' that can be revived to the detriment of the hearer, especially if once again they find themselves in a situation of transiently increased vulnerability.
All your suggestions are great. From her implication "See you at the Bema", I don't believe she is leaving the door open for any contact. The thing that disturbs me the most is her fear. They have really made a mess of people's lives.
Their "imaginations" are so unscriptural. They are so far off the Word, I can thank my God every day that I am not a part of this twisted cult anymore.
Catcup, I can see from your post that you felt the barbs as well as I did when I first read this thing. I also know that this person is very much in the dark as to anything that has gone on with TWI II. Even in the fact that she said one thing, M & A is gone, then does another "I'll see you at the Bema". Boy is she brainwashed. So I still have to ponder how I am going to handle this, and sometimes I don't feel as "gentle" as some of the posters here have suggested I be. It's like you want to shake the dust out of their brain to get them to wake up.
From one "new outie" to another , I deal with this a lot still.
Many do not know about our departure, yet.
One thing I noticed is that if someone has been "questioning" anything in their heart, as soon as you mention why you left, they are "all ears!"
But, with someone who thinks "everything is wonderful" and "I love my fellowship", as soon as you say one bad thing, they "close their ears!"
This has happend so often lately that I just feel them out and see where they are at.
Most say "I don't want to know anymore........"
So, sounds like she has no reason to leave, and likes her life. Without a computer to check things out for herself, she'll be a basketcase if you tell her things that she never knew. She probably thinks she's being more "loving" like they promote, and writing a "copout" so they Might come back to the household!
I know I was for the first 2 months I found this site. My whole life was in question! Upheavel.
So, I would lovingly share what God has done for you and say "lets do coffee" or something.
But this is just my opinion, and like a@#h#$#, everyone's got one!!!!
I am so glad that you remember the things I taught you, and that they helped you in your search for the things of God.
Allow me to share one more thing with you. "God's ministry" is not The Way International. It is the ministry of reconciliation (II Corinthians 5: 18), and it is something I am still actively engaged in. I love helping people reconcile to God through Christ, and will continue to do so for as long as I have breath.
The things that God commands me to do through Jesus Christ, I do. They do not include participation in any particular earthly organization. The Body of Christ does not respect such affiliations, so I see no reason why my decision to avoid a particular organization should translate into an inability to see you.
I was sorry to hear of Mrs. Wierwille's death. I will be sure to send my condolences to her family. You might want to reach out to them as well. I hear many of them can be reached in care of Christian Family Fellowship. You can look them up on the Internet.
"I might have too much cynic in me...but I just can't shake the feeling that this is a letter that all "believers" were asked to write to those that "have left the fold." I can just hear it now, "There are some out there who have left that are feeling sorry and alone. The devil is having his say with them because they left the family of God. Write to them and let them know how welcomed they are. Blah blah blah...yadda yadda yadda." It's a way to get more ABS money in the coffers."
Doojable, that was my first thought. Not my only one, but the first. Like these 12 step programs have you apologize to people you hurt, perhaps this was an edict at a Sunday Service. I would still write back and use some of the ideas presented here.
So any suggestions as to whether or not I should bother to respond to this and tell her that she still needs undershephering after ? 26 years in lala land. I'm really having trouble deciding whether or not to do this, Jude says pull them out of the fire. She has a heart, her head is screwed up.
It's always nice to be nice. If you care about her, respond. I would. It may be a *form* letter, but hey -- ya never know.
You know her best (vs. us here), so what you have to say may be pertinent to her (as Rascal said -- I think) down the road, if not now.
I wouldn't blow it off, but that's me. Every last somebody deserves dialouge, if they are looking for it.
You are in the unique position of offering that to this person.
If twi-2 really did change the m&a policy, I believe I know a way to find out.
For anyone who was marked and avoided: simply call the way bookstore and ask to purchase something. If you are allowed to purchase, then they changed their m&a policy.
Because it has been a policy from the early 90's, that those of us (not just m&a but everyone) who no longer fellowshipped with twi-2 couldn't purchase from the bookstore, period. But, a couple of years ago, they changed the policy to allow everyone to purchase except "marked and avoided" folks.
So simply, if anyone who previously was marked and avoided can purchase NOW, then they changed the m&a policy.
if they are going to be a pain in the foot don't...
there are a bunch of ppl still in twi that i like hanging out with, on a normal level. I just dont talk about ministry stuff, its actually great.
But my friends that are still leadership are kinda hard to hang out with. They all want you back, want you to "fellowship" with them again.
So if its a regular friend then i say respond.
I dont like to talk to ppl about the ministry any more. Its so boring. Its almost like debating gun control or abortion or democrat vs republican... They want out they'll get out... with or without me..
only place i talk about twi is g-spot... its the best place... ppl here at least have an idea of what went on... except oldies... but even oldies knows that twi was F|_|(k3D up... he (she?) just likes to play the devils advocate (would that be seed of the serpant?)
I am so glad that you remember the things I taught you, and that they helped you in your search for the things of God.
Allow me to share one more thing with you. "God's ministry" is not The Way International. It is the ministry of reconciliation (II Corinthians 5: 18), and it is something I am still actively engaged in. I love helping people reconcile to God through Christ, and will continue to do so for as long as I have breath.
The things that God commands me to do through Jesus Christ, I do. They do not include participation in any particular earthly organization. The Body of Christ does not respect such affiliations, so I see no reason why my decision to avoid a particular organization should translate into an inability to see you.
I was sorry to hear of Mrs. Wierwille's death. I will be sure to send my condolences to her family. You might want to reach out to them as well. I hear many of them can be reached in care of Christian Family Fellowship. You can look them up on the Internet.
You can look up lots of things on the Internet.
Feel free to call me or come over any time.
Sincerely,
....
I double dog dare you. :)
Thanks Raf, this can be a starting point. Actually I was going to tell her that I was invited to the funeral and got a personal note from one of Dr. Wierwille's children. Apparently she believes because I am out that I do not know what's going on inside. hahahahaha, but that's ok. She is oblivious and I have to remember that.
You don't have to double dog dare me, I think the letter is great, maybe a little more tenderness when I can get my mind on track.
I also wanted to mention so some of you so you can understand that I don't think her note came out of the blue. For the first time in many years I sent her a CHRISTMAS card. Oh it feels so good to say that.
Anyway rather than send me a card she dropped me a note. As to "See you at the Bema" that was meant as it was said. We don't live that far away from each other. I could start with "Oh how great the M & A think is over" so let's get together and have lunch.
In a face to face, she would not be able to squirm out if I share the Word on the issues that she is so off on.
Food for thought. It may not be until next month, this months going as fast as the last 12. Before you know it we'll be wrapping CHRISTMAS presents again. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no!
Have a wonderful nite everyone, I'm beat and going to bed.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
9
11
9
13
Popular Days
Jan 6
27
Jan 10
16
Jan 11
15
Jan 12
9
Top Posters In This Topic
Catcup 9 posts
dmiller 11 posts
I Love Bagpipes 9 posts
Gillian Rules 13 posts
Popular Days
Jan 6 2006
27 posts
Jan 10 2006
16 posts
Jan 11 2006
15 posts
Jan 12 2006
9 posts
markomalley
TWI is fundamentally built on an incorrect, false, and dangerous theology. It is like a snake. It can shed its skin, but underneath the dead skin, it's still a snake. IMHO
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Gillian, you never know when the words you speak will make a difference. I would say that as long as theyare willing to have dialogue, though small, there is a chance that God might use you or something you say to connect the dots for this innie.
It may not even be now....but years down the road, your words/actions will germinate.
I remember being this way..... I would still be in myself it it weren`t for the twig moving out of the area....making excuses....convincing myself that it is all right.
My suggestion to you ....if you care.....is to be your wonderfull loving self....no confrontation...any attempt to open their eyes would be viewed as satanic of course.......I would want my life, my actions my words to reflect that God was still the center of my universe....that he loved and blesses us where ever we are ..... that I had found nurture and continued growth....
Let her see (without saying it) that the ministry was wrong about people who leave....it will speak volumes that you have not become a raving lunatic....that you don`t get struck down with horrible disease and death.....you know, all of the stuff that we were scared into staying with.
Then when the crisis hits...and we KNOW that it will.... your friend will be able to think ...well geee whiz Gillian has been out all of this time and is fine....maybe the fear wont be there to leave....does this make any sense?
I like to think that my life is the * in your face PROOF * that twi was wrong about a lot of things....that folks will see the hand of God`s blessing wherever I fellowship.
As far as the minitry changing? Yeah some of the practices may have changed due to legal litigation and an attempt to stop folks from leaving.....but is that really change? If it isn`t Godly repentance....then is it worth anything at all?
Repentance entails apology, restitution, asking forgiveness, scripturally twi is still not a Godly ministry ...according to the standard God established for one who harms a brother....
The reference to people leaving the area ....maybe their new leadership is fine and a blessing....that just means their old leadership is torturing an entirely new group of innocent folks :(
Link to comment
Share on other sites
justloafing
May want to clear one thing up.. You may not know that there is a "Mary Poppins" that posts here. I am pretty sure it is not the one and the same.
markomalley, Right on brotha. Can't say it any better.
As rascle said, be yourself with her. Try and leave the door open to her because when and if she leaves she may think you are the only friend she has on the outside of that cozy little cornfield cult.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gillian Rules
Many thanks. I was thinking of keeping the door open and just not responding. Of courses she is now planning to wait until the Bema, LOL, so we never know. I just find it so hard to believe (even tho this person does not have a computer) that otheres who lurk here haven't explained the facts of life to her.
I took care of Mary Poppings haha, didn't know there was one here. No offense, all the names etc. are fictional.
I may still, when I can think straight, drop a note and try to be nice. It just gets you nuts when you were the one that undershepherded this person that after 26 years and a very close relationship, they can remain so lame. At least call and talk on the phone. I cannot believe how much fear is motivating them :blink: .
Edited by Gillian RulesLink to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Agreed, terribly frustrating.... but understand, as her undershephereder...even though decades past...I`ll bet there is some respect and love still there on her part.
Anything anti ministry or attempt at reasoning you write will be viewed as evil of course.......I would try to be gracious and kind, treat her like an overly excitable two year old...you know?
I would just gush about how pleased that I am to hear from her, share some fun stuff from my own life...ask her about hers....etc. You might be her only life line....but spook her n she`ll cut it and drown.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Catcup
They got rid of it, did they? Then I would ask this person one thing: When will The Way International send out letters of apology to all those whom they marked and avoided? If The Way International ditched the policy, they must have
1.) Finally admitted they actually had the policy, which btw they are on court records as denying they ever had, and
2.) If they admit they used a wrong policy against people in the past, then they must know they wronged many people.
Where is their admission of guilt, retraction of policy, and profuse apologies to all those who were victims of that policy for years?
Now that is frightening.
It was Mrs. Wierwille, who after VPW's death remarked to a poster here, that her husband "was a mean man." That was the kindest thing his wife had to say about her husband to this person.
Specifically what things and classes and how have they changed?
How very condescending.
I'd certainly ask her the above questions if it were me. And like rascal said... be nice. But you can nonchalantly ask the questions in a way that is non-threatening. For example, "You mean they dropped the mark and avoid policy? Wow. So, when is The Way International going to contact all those people they marked and avoided and let them know they are no longer marked and avoided?" And, "How wonderful that things have changed! Exactly what changes have been made where and what were the results?"
As an aside-- Right after Christmas my husband and I dropped by to see his elderly mother, who lives with his innie brother. After we checked on her and as we were leaving, he made sure to tell us we were "always welcome here." A very changed tune from when he wrote his brother a quite hateful note and sent it to him for his birthday shortly after we left TWI.
They want us back, but they don't want to admit to the inhumane treatment they gave to thousands of people.
Not admitting their mistakes to and apologizing to the people they actually hurt indicates they aren't sorry for our sakes they did it. They are only sorry for their own.
We happened to have with us a guest who had never been a part of TWI and until right before we got out of the car had no idea what TWI was. When we left, she remarked how the house decor seemed "unnaturally and compulsively perfect," how odd it was there were no family photos in the livingroom, just posters, how my brother-in-law kept nervously picking the lint off his shirt, and various other oddities. BTW she is in criminal justice and forensics, and has a trained eye for incongruous detail.
It seemed odd to me as well. The livingroom was so typically set up with two queen-anne style wingback chairs facing two couches arranged "just perfectly" for a teaching setting, along with the fake ficus palms. Why is it Wayfers love to set up their livingrooms like a set from the stage of the Weird Over the World Auditorium?
No one really lives there after all, now, do they?
Edited by CatcupLink to comment
Share on other sites
Sunesis
Gillian, first accept my apology for coming down a bit hard on you in another thread! It was more the tone of the thread I was annoyed with.
Anyway, I'd respond. I'd respond lovingly, tell her it was wonderful to hear from her. I'd then tell her how blessed your life is, maybe some major things going on. Let her see you are not a greasespot. I'd also tell her, you are blessed being a member of the whole Body of Christ, and how much there is, and you cannot limit yourself to one tiny organization anymore (where in the Bible does it say TWI is the one and only true Christian organization?)
I'd also tell her, since neither of you are planning to die soon, perhaps she could come visit you now (get her on your turf) before the Bema - why does she want to wait until the Bema? There's plenty of time to visit now, in our earthly bodies. That may make her think a bit.
I'd also maybe say, at this point, there is nothing TWI could possibly offer you, its had its run, time to move on. Its kind of like, remember McDonalds when it first started out? It was a tiny little drive in. As us babyboomers grew up and changed, so did McDonald's. As we got older, they added seats indoors, when we had kids, they added playgrounds, then they made really fancy ones. TWI has not gotten past the drive-in stage, and never will.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Catcup
It will also highlight whether she genuinely wants to make a meaningful contact with you, or truly wants to relieve her own concerns about still never really seeing you again.
I remember shortly before I made the decision to leave, finding we were already being "written off." At a fellowship, one little boy who was a playmate of my daugher-- I think he was probably 7 years old or less-- came up and told her he would miss her, but he would see her at the bema!!!!! My daughter wondered if he was sick and was going to die. But I heard and saw the exchange, and knew exactly where it came from and what was coming down the pike.
The idiocy and arrogance of these people still makes me want to puke.
It amazes me that they truly do not understand how arrogant they sound. Or perhaps they know and don't really care.
Edited by CatcupLink to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
I might have too much cynic in me...but I just can't shake the feeling that this is a letter that all "believers" were asked to write to those that "have left the fold." I can just hear it now, "There are some out there who have left that are feeling sorry and alone. The devil is having his say with them because they left the family of God. Write to them and let them know how welcomed they are. Blah blah blah...yadda yadda yadda." It's a way to get more ABS money in the coffers.
Nevertheless, this letter does have heart. All the others are exactly right. B yourself. Be kind and gentle and let your lfe be a glowing example that there is life after TWI.
Edited by doojableLink to comment
Share on other sites
Catcup
If in fact TWI has "changed their tune" regarding their mark and avoid policy, it can only be because they realize they were wrong to have done it and have regrets.
They have figured out not how it hurt those they levied the policy against, but how it impacted them: It severely cut the numbers of people they could boast, emptied money from their coffers, and robbed them of not only the money that would have been coming in, but also robbed them of the fellowship of some people they actually used to enjoy, and made for unhappy family relationships among many of their innies.
Again, it's all about what they lost, not about what harm they did to others.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
If twi-2 really did change the m&a policy, I believe I know a way to find out.
For anyone who was marked and avoided: simply call the way bookstore and ask to purchase something. If you are allowed to purchase, then they changed their m&a policy.
Because it has been a policy from the early 90's, that those of us (not just m&a but everyone) who no longer fellowshipped with twi-2 couldn't purchase from the bookstore, period. But, a couple of years ago, they changed the policy to allow everyone to purchase except "marked and avoided" folks.
So simply, if anyone who previously was marked and avoided can purchase NOW, then they changed the m&a policy.
Does that make sense?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
justloafing
May I add. It has not changed their theology except in that one area. If that is the case they changed it because it is all about them and not the innies.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
jkboehme
In my opinion, this is nothing more than a despicable, strategic cultic [thought reform] re-triggering attempt.
I know ex-twi who left twi for 2 to 5 years, only to be triggered to return to twi's vomit due to apparent 'out of the blue' contact from an innie who was a close friend or at least had some connection to the person.
Re-triggering often works for ex-cult members who have not been sufficiently exit-counseled by a certified mental health professional, such as a psychologist, counseling social worker, or psychiatrist.
These unfortunate folks have a large amount of 'waybrain' of which they are not aware; for the bedazzling voice of TWI, via its anchors, pacing, & leading, has laid down many implicit 'memories' that can be revived to the detriment of the hearer, especially if once again they find themselves in a situation of transiently increased vulnerability.
Beware!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gillian Rules
All your suggestions are great. From her implication "See you at the Bema", I don't believe she is leaving the door open for any contact. The thing that disturbs me the most is her fear. They have really made a mess of people's lives.
Their "imaginations" are so unscriptural. They are so far off the Word, I can thank my God every day that I am not a part of this twisted cult anymore.
Catcup, I can see from your post that you felt the barbs as well as I did when I first read this thing. I also know that this person is very much in the dark as to anything that has gone on with TWI II. Even in the fact that she said one thing, M & A is gone, then does another "I'll see you at the Bema". Boy is she brainwashed. So I still have to ponder how I am going to handle this, and sometimes I don't feel as "gentle" as some of the posters here have suggested I be. It's like you want to shake the dust out of their brain to get them to wake up.
Still thinking.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Actually, when I read the letter again, there is nothing in there inviting you back.
And she closes by saying "I'll see you at the bema"...
So she is saying goodbye, and not expecting you to come back or even respond.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
bliss
From one "new outie" to another , I deal with this a lot still.
Many do not know about our departure, yet.
One thing I noticed is that if someone has been "questioning" anything in their heart, as soon as you mention why you left, they are "all ears!"
But, with someone who thinks "everything is wonderful" and "I love my fellowship", as soon as you say one bad thing, they "close their ears!"
This has happend so often lately that I just feel them out and see where they are at.
Most say "I don't want to know anymore........"
So, sounds like she has no reason to leave, and likes her life. Without a computer to check things out for herself, she'll be a basketcase if you tell her things that she never knew. She probably thinks she's being more "loving" like they promote, and writing a "copout" so they Might come back to the household!
I know I was for the first 2 months I found this site. My whole life was in question! Upheavel.
So, I would lovingly share what God has done for you and say "lets do coffee" or something.
But this is just my opinion, and like a@#h#$#, everyone's got one!!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
Dear ____,
I am so glad that you remember the things I taught you, and that they helped you in your search for the things of God.
Allow me to share one more thing with you. "God's ministry" is not The Way International. It is the ministry of reconciliation (II Corinthians 5: 18), and it is something I am still actively engaged in. I love helping people reconcile to God through Christ, and will continue to do so for as long as I have breath.
The things that God commands me to do through Jesus Christ, I do. They do not include participation in any particular earthly organization. The Body of Christ does not respect such affiliations, so I see no reason why my decision to avoid a particular organization should translate into an inability to see you.
I was sorry to hear of Mrs. Wierwille's death. I will be sure to send my condolences to her family. You might want to reach out to them as well. I hear many of them can be reached in care of Christian Family Fellowship. You can look them up on the Internet.
You can look up lots of things on the Internet.
Feel free to call me or come over any time.
Sincerely,
....
I double dog dare you. :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
"I might have too much cynic in me...but I just can't shake the feeling that this is a letter that all "believers" were asked to write to those that "have left the fold." I can just hear it now, "There are some out there who have left that are feeling sorry and alone. The devil is having his say with them because they left the family of God. Write to them and let them know how welcomed they are. Blah blah blah...yadda yadda yadda." It's a way to get more ABS money in the coffers."
Doojable, that was my first thought. Not my only one, but the first. Like these 12 step programs have you apologize to people you hurt, perhaps this was an edict at a Sunday Service. I would still write back and use some of the ideas presented here.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
It's always nice to be nice. If you care about her, respond. I would. It may be a *form* letter, but hey -- ya never know.
You know her best (vs. us here), so what you have to say may be pertinent to her (as Rascal said -- I think) down the road, if not now.
I wouldn't blow it off, but that's me. Every last somebody deserves dialouge, if they are looking for it.
You are in the unique position of offering that to this person.
my imho. :)
David
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
And ~~~ May I add one thing more?
I have no problem with the phrase *See Ya At The Bema*.
Since you get a letter from her, I'm guessing you two don't have *local* contact.
Meebe she is using it as a *kiss off*, and maybe not.
*See Ya At The Bema* is a phrase I might well use in signing off on a letter,
if I didn't expect to see that person (physically), for quite a while -- or ever again.
Like I said -- you know her, we don't.
If *rattling her cage* will work, do it.
If a kind response is needed, do it.
But as far as that phrase goes ---*See ya at the bema*
it's just one more way to say *see ya later!*
Again -- just my imho.
David
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Oldies -- yea that makes sense (to me).
But they don't have anything worth buying.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
nandon
damn, if its someone you like, respond.
if they are going to be a pain in the foot don't...
there are a bunch of ppl still in twi that i like hanging out with, on a normal level. I just dont talk about ministry stuff, its actually great.
But my friends that are still leadership are kinda hard to hang out with. They all want you back, want you to "fellowship" with them again.
So if its a regular friend then i say respond.
I dont like to talk to ppl about the ministry any more. Its so boring. Its almost like debating gun control or abortion or democrat vs republican... They want out they'll get out... with or without me..
only place i talk about twi is g-spot... its the best place... ppl here at least have an idea of what went on... except oldies... but even oldies knows that twi was F|_|(k3D up... he (she?) just likes to play the devils advocate (would that be seed of the serpant?)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gillian Rules
Thanks Raf, this can be a starting point. Actually I was going to tell her that I was invited to the funeral and got a personal note from one of Dr. Wierwille's children. Apparently she believes because I am out that I do not know what's going on inside. hahahahaha, but that's ok. She is oblivious and I have to remember that.
You don't have to double dog dare me, I think the letter is great, maybe a little more tenderness when I can get my mind on track.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gillian Rules
I also wanted to mention so some of you so you can understand that I don't think her note came out of the blue. For the first time in many years I sent her a CHRISTMAS card. Oh it feels so good to say that.
Anyway rather than send me a card she dropped me a note. As to "See you at the Bema" that was meant as it was said. We don't live that far away from each other. I could start with "Oh how great the M & A think is over" so let's get together and have lunch.
In a face to face, she would not be able to squirm out if I share the Word on the issues that she is so off on.
Food for thought.
It may not be until next month, this months going as fast as the last 12. Before you know it we'll be wrapping CHRISTMAS presents again. 
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no!
Have a wonderful nite everyone, I'm beat and going to bed.
Edited by Gillian RulesLink to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.