That's done here too Morgan, although not as often as we've seen it in bigger cities. And given that we're tucked far enough out of the way, the bus doesn't come back here now.
What scares me about it is that those who harm children can see it as another idea, another way to get to kids.
For many urban kids, the only structure they get is from the (mostly) fundamentalist churches who have volunteers who drive vans and buses through the city to pick up kids who would otherwise be roaming the streets, and take them to church, where they read Bible stories, pray, do crafts, eat, and participate in organized outdoor activities, at no cost to the families. In the summertime, they offer full-day activities organized and funded by volunteers mostly from suburban areas. Like the church official said when you phoned, they need a signed, parental consent form to get on the bus. So what crime is being committed? What's the alternative for some of these kids if you call the police?
If you don't want your children participating, do what you did, and tell them them they can't. But don't take it away from other children who might benefit.
Yeah, what laleo said. We once attended a church that did this, and we would also feed the kids lunch on Sunday. For some of the kids, actually most of them, it was the only time of the week when they were in a safe, loving environment.
If it's not for your kids, fine. But it works wonders for some.
That sort of thing is quite common here where we live, but most everybody knows everybody else well enough that when a bus comes around, it's not unfamiliar or total strangers...hence, there's accountability.
In an urban area, however, that's downright scarey as lots of people have vans and magnetic signs are easy to come by.
Such practices in urban areas should be added to the McGruff crime dog stuff they have in schools. A better way would be for the churches to distribute flyers inviting kids to come for Wednesday night supper and Bible School like the Baptists and Assy of God churches here do. Then the parents can be aware of what's going on and make informed decisions as to where they send the kids for a free meal, since the Assy of God Churches usually hand out "Jack Chick" booklets to the kids while they're eating.
If anybody out there has experience with such programs and has at all volunteered to do "inner city" type ministry things, then you know that there are safeguards in place, of course. At least there were in the programs I am acquainted with. Each community handles it their own way, usually in conjuction with law enforcement and/or other social agencies. And if a church isn't handling this type of "outreach program" responsibly, well then of course, something should be done.
Okay, so let's take the churches off the street. Then what? Who is left to interact with the kids besides the drug dealers, pedophiles, and street gangs?
At least some of these churches are trying to do something good. Cut them some slack.
ex10, I'm with you. If there is abuse, if the driver hasn't passed his background check, if safeguards aren't in place, then, yes, something should be done. But I don't see any abuse here. The bus driver explained his purpose to the parents, who then called the church, and had the information verified. As far as I can tell, this is legit. I don't understand the alarm. Where is the misrepresentation?
If a robber poses as a meter reader and gains entrance into a home, should all meter readers then be forbidden from entering into homes? Or should the home owner take precautions?
I agree with laleo, I also understand your concern as a parent.
Maybe it was a new bus driver and he/she was unsure if they where waiting for the bus or not, maybe a young child said they may have come some time, who was a little excited or confused.
Better to check rather than to leave them behind!!
I think it is a good thing Im sad more parents do not get on the bus as well but anything for a few free hours away from the kids I guess.
It cant hurt, learning the bible is still a good thing to me. In an apartment complex I have lived in the baptists would sponsor a three week bible day camp for all the young people living in the area.
Let me tell ya I LOVED it!! the kids did to! it was free and they got snacks and had alot of fun and the minister and his wife and helpers would often walk the kids home and meet the parents and try to help in any way they could .
I understand mistrust, I really do and as a parent each one has his own choices to make on trusting those who influence the little ones.. but I still believe in good people and prayer and good old bible lesson with some macaroni pictures!!!
It helps with social skills within the community as well and the kids make friends , in a nice environment.
I agree with laleo (et al). A child of a neighbor of mine went to a summer day camp via this kind of bus thing. I think it's a neat thing if some church has the ability and desire to do such a thing as outreach. They checked it out first and even rode with their son a time or two.
I know we live in perilous times and I'm not diminishing that. But - that shouldn't cause us to put the kibosh on everything that reaches us or our kids in a way we didn't think of. Since it appears to be a bona fide project in the community, if you called the police, they would have told you that it was such.
Being careful and using wisdom is a beautiful thing, but if you are too cautious you can back yourself into a corner where you cut yourself off from some experiences that could be enlightening, if not rich and joyful. I don't want to live backed into a corner.
"macaroni pictures" - - oh pond - - I remember those. My kids were so excited to bring those home...spray painted and sparkled they were too!
We had the Joy Bus come by our house when wer were kids. The lure was donuts on the ride back home. It was done with a good heart to have kids get to know about God, but it does open doors to wackos. And we all know we can find wackos in church.
My sister was almost 3 when the Joy Bus picked her up. She had been outside, and just jumped on. When we found she was missing a few short minutes later, we drove all around the neighborhood to see if we could find her. Mom and I drove around for at least an hour before I thought of the Joy Bus.
We went to the church and found my sister there having a good time. But they had no right to pick up an almost 3 year old.
This was back in the early 70s when parents weren't scared of wackos trying to steal their kids. My mom had been watching my sister outside, but it only took a few short minutes away that brought horror to our lives. She never let us leave her sight after that.
By all means call the police, the churches should have the vehicles and volunteers registered. They just don't usually up and decide they will do this service, they usually check with local law enforcement and work with them. It is a great help to kids and I have seen it work wonders in small towns. Children left to roam the streets as their drugged up and/or drunk parent sleeps off another one on another Sunday morning coming down get some much needed attention and guidance.
The correct way for a church to handle a bus ministry is to FIRST do 'knock and talks' throughout the neighborhoods where the bus will be passing through on Sunday.
This way the parents KNOW what's coming and can EXPECT a bus to pull up out front.
If a church is not doing this FIRST, then call the cops IMMEDIATELY.
After the whole twi experience with children's fellowship being nothing but a front for a pedophile ring...and after reading here just how that happened...
Well, it's just plain stupid to justify such activity.
I'd have no problem with what Morgan described. If someone were enticing kids to hop on a bus without parental approval, that would be a different matter, but that wasn't the case, and isn't the case with the many churches that do similar things in many communities. I don't share their beliefs and wouldn't have my kids participate, but they're not a threat and for some people, what they offer is a heck of a lot better than anything they experience elsewhere, even if it is (IMHO) a fantasy.
And just how warm and fuzzy would you feel about it if it were the Scientologists or the Moonies or the Branch Davidians or any of the more "fringe" religious groups doing it?
Just because they represent a superstition that you share doesn't necessarily equate with performing a worthwhile deed...
If it were the Scientologists, the Moonies, or the Branch Davidians, as long as they didn't provide transportation to their services without parental approval, I'd have no problem with it.
So put my kids on a bus with a bunch of people I've never met, have no clue as to their names or anything, but because it's a church thing, then just dump my wisdom out the window and be excited?
Like I said before, CW, I wouldn't have my kids participate, but I wouldn't freak out about them offering their services to others, as long as parental approval were a requirement.
After the whole twi experience with children's fellowship being nothing but a front for a pedophile ring...and after reading here just how that happened...
CW, with no disrespect intended, the way you've stated this sounds like every CF in twi was a front for a pedophile ring. As horrid as your experience was, I don't think it's fair to dump the many, many dedicated children's fellowship leaders into the pedophile category. Maybe that's not how you meant it, but that's how it sounds to me.
As for picking up kids on buses, I can see where that would give some parents pause, but I agree with laleo and ex10. If my kids wanted to go, I'd go with them the first few times and scope things out.
No, Linda, that's not what I meant...and I don't think you or anybody else who regularly participates here thinks that's I meant that...BUT...there are many others who read this board who wouldn't know otherwise since I wasn't clear.
As for the whole bus thing...
IF I know the names, addresses and positions of the people participating...
IF I've spoken with the pastor and have been assured that ALL participants working with children have had background checks...
IF I'm comfortable with the program after I've done all to protect my children...
Then great! It's a wonderful thing to have available.
Holy smokes :D I never thought this thead would take off like this. I do think it is wonderful that a church would send out buses to pick up those who cannot drive on their own. But I still take issue with the driver approaching my children first, instead of approaching ME first.
BTW, the driver never said a single word to me. I ONLY found out about the parental permission slip part because I called the church after the incident took place. It isn't an issue of whether or not I agree with the particular church doctrine, it is an issue of safety and respect.
As far as background checks go, I have no idea what may or may not have been done in that category.
Morgan, I can understand your annoyance. After all, your kids were in their own front yard. Obviously, your situation should have been handled better.
But I also have to say, that my experience from the other end was a little different. We went into a very bad neighborhood. And that's an understatement. In our case, it wasn't wise to go knocking on doors, so we had the cooperation of the local police who knew who we were and what we doing. Like I said, precautions have to be in place, but exactly what they are kinda depends on the community.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
6
4
9
4
Popular Days
Feb 5
34
Feb 6
15
Feb 7
4
Feb 8
2
Top Posters In This Topic
laleo 6 posts
LG 4 posts
CoolWaters 9 posts
Shellon 4 posts
Popular Days
Feb 5 2006
34 posts
Feb 6 2006
15 posts
Feb 7 2006
4 posts
Feb 8 2006
2 posts
Shellon
That's done here too Morgan, although not as often as we've seen it in bigger cities. And given that we're tucked far enough out of the way, the bus doesn't come back here now.
What scares me about it is that those who harm children can see it as another idea, another way to get to kids.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pawtucket
Just curious what the police would say about it. Might be worth a call. Inviting adults is one thing...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GarthP2000
Great way for the bus driver to get himself shot by a really angry parent.
Hey, that idea isn't so far fetched these days!
:blink:
Link to comment
Share on other sites
coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
imo call the cops and call them now!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
laleo
No, it isn't insane.
For many urban kids, the only structure they get is from the (mostly) fundamentalist churches who have volunteers who drive vans and buses through the city to pick up kids who would otherwise be roaming the streets, and take them to church, where they read Bible stories, pray, do crafts, eat, and participate in organized outdoor activities, at no cost to the families. In the summertime, they offer full-day activities organized and funded by volunteers mostly from suburban areas. Like the church official said when you phoned, they need a signed, parental consent form to get on the bus. So what crime is being committed? What's the alternative for some of these kids if you call the police?
If you don't want your children participating, do what you did, and tell them them they can't. But don't take it away from other children who might benefit.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ex10
Yeah, what laleo said. We once attended a church that did this, and we would also feed the kids lunch on Sunday. For some of the kids, actually most of them, it was the only time of the week when they were in a safe, loving environment.
If it's not for your kids, fine. But it works wonders for some.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ron G.
That sort of thing is quite common here where we live, but most everybody knows everybody else well enough that when a bus comes around, it's not unfamiliar or total strangers...hence, there's accountability.
In an urban area, however, that's downright scarey as lots of people have vans and magnetic signs are easy to come by.
Such practices in urban areas should be added to the McGruff crime dog stuff they have in schools. A better way would be for the churches to distribute flyers inviting kids to come for Wednesday night supper and Bible School like the Baptists and Assy of God churches here do. Then the parents can be aware of what's going on and make informed decisions as to where they send the kids for a free meal, since the Assy of God Churches usually hand out "Jack Chick" booklets to the kids while they're eating.
Ya gotta watch that stuff.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
George Aar
They would do that precisely ONCE to me or mine.
I can't believe ANYBODY is dense enough to play that game. Not in the world we're
living in currently. It's well beyond thoughtless and nigh unto irresponsible...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ex10
Wow George, tell us how you feel.
If anybody out there has experience with such programs and has at all volunteered to do "inner city" type ministry things, then you know that there are safeguards in place, of course. At least there were in the programs I am acquainted with. Each community handles it their own way, usually in conjuction with law enforcement and/or other social agencies. And if a church isn't handling this type of "outreach program" responsibly, well then of course, something should be done.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
laleo
Okay, so let's take the churches off the street. Then what? Who is left to interact with the kids besides the drug dealers, pedophiles, and street gangs?
At least some of these churches are trying to do something good. Cut them some slack.
ex10, I'm with you. If there is abuse, if the driver hasn't passed his background check, if safeguards aren't in place, then, yes, something should be done. But I don't see any abuse here. The bus driver explained his purpose to the parents, who then called the church, and had the information verified. As far as I can tell, this is legit. I don't understand the alarm. Where is the misrepresentation?
If a robber poses as a meter reader and gains entrance into a home, should all meter readers then be forbidden from entering into homes? Or should the home owner take precautions?
Edited by laleoLink to comment
Share on other sites
pond
they do it here as well
I agree with laleo, I also understand your concern as a parent.
Maybe it was a new bus driver and he/she was unsure if they where waiting for the bus or not, maybe a young child said they may have come some time, who was a little excited or confused.
Better to check rather than to leave them behind!!
I think it is a good thing Im sad more parents do not get on the bus as well but anything for a few free hours away from the kids I guess.
It cant hurt, learning the bible is still a good thing to me. In an apartment complex I have lived in the baptists would sponsor a three week bible day camp for all the young people living in the area.
Let me tell ya I LOVED it!! the kids did to! it was free and they got snacks and had alot of fun and the minister and his wife and helpers would often walk the kids home and meet the parents and try to help in any way they could .
I understand mistrust, I really do and as a parent each one has his own choices to make on trusting those who influence the little ones.. but I still believe in good people and prayer and good old bible lesson with some macaroni pictures!!!
It helps with social skills within the community as well and the kids make friends , in a nice environment.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
krys
I agree with laleo (et al). A child of a neighbor of mine went to a summer day camp via this kind of bus thing. I think it's a neat thing if some church has the ability and desire to do such a thing as outreach. They checked it out first and even rode with their son a time or two.
I know we live in perilous times and I'm not diminishing that. But - that shouldn't cause us to put the kibosh on everything that reaches us or our kids in a way we didn't think of. Since it appears to be a bona fide project in the community, if you called the police, they would have told you that it was such.
Being careful and using wisdom is a beautiful thing, but if you are too cautious you can back yourself into a corner where you cut yourself off from some experiences that could be enlightening, if not rich and joyful. I don't want to live backed into a corner.
"macaroni pictures" - - oh pond - - I remember those. My kids were so excited to bring those home...spray painted and sparkled they were too!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nottawayfer
We had the Joy Bus come by our house when wer were kids. The lure was donuts on the ride back home. It was done with a good heart to have kids get to know about God, but it does open doors to wackos. And we all know we can find wackos in church.
My sister was almost 3 when the Joy Bus picked her up. She had been outside, and just jumped on. When we found she was missing a few short minutes later, we drove all around the neighborhood to see if we could find her. Mom and I drove around for at least an hour before I thought of the Joy Bus.
We went to the church and found my sister there having a good time. But they had no right to pick up an almost 3 year old.
This was back in the early 70s when parents weren't scared of wackos trying to steal their kids. My mom had been watching my sister outside, but it only took a few short minutes away that brought horror to our lives. She never let us leave her sight after that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
wingnut
By all means call the police, the churches should have the vehicles and volunteers registered. They just don't usually up and decide they will do this service, they usually check with local law enforcement and work with them. It is a great help to kids and I have seen it work wonders in small towns. Children left to roam the streets as their drugged up and/or drunk parent sleeps off another one on another Sunday morning coming down get some much needed attention and guidance.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CoolWaters
The correct way for a church to handle a bus ministry is to FIRST do 'knock and talks' throughout the neighborhoods where the bus will be passing through on Sunday.
This way the parents KNOW what's coming and can EXPECT a bus to pull up out front.
If a church is not doing this FIRST, then call the cops IMMEDIATELY.
After the whole twi experience with children's fellowship being nothing but a front for a pedophile ring...and after reading here just how that happened...
Well, it's just plain stupid to justify such activity.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LG
I'd have no problem with what Morgan described. If someone were enticing kids to hop on a bus without parental approval, that would be a different matter, but that wasn't the case, and isn't the case with the many churches that do similar things in many communities. I don't share their beliefs and wouldn't have my kids participate, but they're not a threat and for some people, what they offer is a heck of a lot better than anything they experience elsewhere, even if it is (IMHO) a fantasy.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
George Aar
And just how warm and fuzzy would you feel about it if it were the Scientologists or the Moonies or the Branch Davidians or any of the more "fringe" religious groups doing it?
Just because they represent a superstition that you share doesn't necessarily equate with performing a worthwhile deed...
Edited by George AarLink to comment
Share on other sites
LG
If it were the Scientologists, the Moonies, or the Branch Davidians, as long as they didn't provide transportation to their services without parental approval, I'd have no problem with it.
Edited by LGLink to comment
Share on other sites
CoolWaters
So put my kids on a bus with a bunch of people I've never met, have no clue as to their names or anything, but because it's a church thing, then just dump my wisdom out the window and be excited?
Been there, done that...learned my lesson.
Freaks me out that others didn't learn theirs.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LG
Like I said before, CW, I wouldn't have my kids participate, but I wouldn't freak out about them offering their services to others, as long as parental approval were a requirement.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Linda Z
CW, with no disrespect intended, the way you've stated this sounds like every CF in twi was a front for a pedophile ring. As horrid as your experience was, I don't think it's fair to dump the many, many dedicated children's fellowship leaders into the pedophile category. Maybe that's not how you meant it, but that's how it sounds to me.
As for picking up kids on buses, I can see where that would give some parents pause, but I agree with laleo and ex10. If my kids wanted to go, I'd go with them the first few times and scope things out.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CoolWaters
No, Linda, that's not what I meant...and I don't think you or anybody else who regularly participates here thinks that's I meant that...BUT...there are many others who read this board who wouldn't know otherwise since I wasn't clear.
As for the whole bus thing...
IF I know the names, addresses and positions of the people participating...
IF I've spoken with the pastor and have been assured that ALL participants working with children have had background checks...
IF I'm comfortable with the program after I've done all to protect my children...
Then great! It's a wonderful thing to have available.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Morgan
Holy smokes :D I never thought this thead would take off like this. I do think it is wonderful that a church would send out buses to pick up those who cannot drive on their own. But I still take issue with the driver approaching my children first, instead of approaching ME first.
BTW, the driver never said a single word to me. I ONLY found out about the parental permission slip part because I called the church after the incident took place. It isn't an issue of whether or not I agree with the particular church doctrine, it is an issue of safety and respect.
As far as background checks go, I have no idea what may or may not have been done in that category.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ex10
Morgan, I can understand your annoyance. After all, your kids were in their own front yard. Obviously, your situation should have been handled better.
But I also have to say, that my experience from the other end was a little different. We went into a very bad neighborhood. And that's an understatement. In our case, it wasn't wise to go knocking on doors, so we had the cooperation of the local police who knew who we were and what we doing. Like I said, precautions have to be in place, but exactly what they are kinda depends on the community.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.