Not compare and shop why not? I think that it is important to utilize a yard stick that God uses in scripture.....you want to try to dismiss them as unimportant....like I am supposed to ignore what God has done because you say it wasn`t nearly enough or quite good enough....that somehow it would be better if I did it your way.
Well you damned well better have something of value in that grocery cart to show me than more hoops.
You percieve my posts as belly aching? I thought that we were simply discussing our pov`s ...
Here's another of the many well hidden "Thus saith the Lord" statements we can find in Dr's teachings. This one has never been in my previous posts here at GSC. It's from the Sep/Oct 1983 Way Magazine where Dr's article focuses on a short list of vocabulary words that need to be sharply understood.
The list of words he handles in that article is: religion, Christianity, fact, truth, faith, believing, formed, made, created, body, soul, and spirit.
The title of the article is "The Importance of Words in God's Word."
The words "fact" and "Christianity" do NOT appear in the Young's Concordance or in the KJV, but they DO occur in the PFAL writings... a lot.
This again is pretty subtle. That’s probably why I never posted it before. Alone it’s very weak, but taken with all these other statements it gains strength.
"Thus saith" statement #14 - !967 Film Class seg. 66 - I Thess 2:13
This next "thus saith" statement has already appeared above in this thread as I discussed statement #2, but I purposely avoided distracting myself by avoiding pointing it out. I'd like to know if anyone saw this that follows already. If not, we can consider it a little hidden, can we not?
This is the text from the last Session of the class, just before we were led into tongues. This time I'll boldly fontulate only that section for this statement #14
***
In that segment 66 of the '67 film class Dr says:
"And, in my classes on Power For Abundant Living, nobody ever gets missed, because, if you're in this class, you've heard the Word, you've believed God's Word, God is always faithful. And nobody ever misses, if you'll do exactly what I tell you to do, right down to the minute detail.
"It's like, in I Thessalonians, chapter 2, verse 13. Remember where the Apostle Paul said: 'I thank my God, that, when you received the Word of God which you heard of us, you received it not as the word of man, but as it is in truth, the Word of God.'
"Now, if you'll be as honest with God as that Word of God says, you too can walk into the greatness of the manifestation of the power of God. But, if you think this is just V.P. Wierwille talking, you'll never get it."
***
So this statement #14 is right in there with #2. We all heard it a maximum number of times in the film class.
"Thus saith" statement #15 – 1967 Film Class seg 11 - I Thess 2:13
Interestingly enough, the preceding use of I Thess 2:13 in the film class was the THIRD time in the class Dr covered that verse. By the time that last session was reached, as described above in statement #14, Dr had TWICE already introduced the class to this verse and to Paul's authoritative teaching being "like" his own God-given authority.
Here's the first such occurrence of I Thess 2:13 in the film class.
This is segment 11:
You see very few of us have gone back to the Word, we have gone back to men. And we have said well what did Kant say, what did Plato say, what did Aristotle say, what did this theologian say, what did this man say, what did this other person say? Class, back to the Word! The Word and nothing but the Word! For it's this Word which is the Will of God! That's right, bless your heart.
Look at I Thessalonians, I Thessalonians chapter two; Acts, Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, I Thessalonians; the same trouble tonight I had before, this India paper is just a little to thin to find all these scriptures so quickly; but they're in here. I Thessalonians 2:13 listen to this: 'For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us,...'
You see they received the Word of God which they heard of Paul it was Paul's vocabulary but what he was speaking was God's Word.
But to the senses ears the people could have said, "well that's Paul talking, that's just Paul, yeah that's just Paul."
Like they say, "oh, that's just Dr. Wierwille, yeah..." I've heard that, no, no, no.
...thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually [which effectually] worketh also in you that [do one thing--go to church every Sunday morning, sit in the front pew and shout glory hallelujah, believe in all the social action programs;] no a thousand times no. Works effectually in those who do one thing. What? believe.
“Thus saith" statement #16 – 1967 Film Class seg 13 – I Thess 2:13
This next occurrence of I Thess 2:13 is longer, more spread out, and more subtle. It's Dr second handling of this verse in the class.
This is near the end of segment 13:
Let me show you something from I Thessalonians two thirteen, listen to this: I Thessalonians 2:13: 'For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.'
You know, you may have the Word of God, you may know the Word of God but it does not work effectually in people. It does not work effectively with power until we do one thing. Believe. You believe that Word and lo and behold you speak that Word and it produces the same results today that it has produced at any time in the history of civilization since that Word has been given.
You know, the Bible says that we are to abide in the Word. We are to abide in the Word and we're to let this Word abide in you. To the end that we abide in the Word this Word takes the Master's place in our lives through our renewed mind and then it becomes our vocabulary but it is God's Word. We speak, this is our vocabulary, we speak the Word but as we speak the Word it is God's Word. 'I thank my God that when ye received the Word which ye heard of us ye received it not as the word of man,' sounds like it, 'but as the Word of God which worketh effectually in those that believe.'
This Word of God cannot be broken, that's right. Just cannot be broken, not one iota of it can be broken, for what God promised He is not only able but willing to perform and that whole Word fits like a hand in a glove.
You see it is this Word of God that really thrills a man. In Luke chapter twenty-four. Matthew, Mark, Luke, let me just check this with you. Luke twenty-four listen to verse thirty-two:Luke 24:32: 'And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?'
This was speaking about Jesus on the road to Emmaus after the ressurection as he spoke to these men. He opened unto them the scriptures. You see how their hearts thrilled, how their hearts burned within them because he opened to them the scriptures.
I've never seen a man or a woman or a boy or a girl in these classes on Power for Abundant Living whose soul just has not thrilled with an effervescence and with an abundance and with a glow when this Word of God started to unfold, started to fit like a hand in a glove. It made sense and how their hearts burned within them. How they thrilled at the greatness of God's Word!
***
I’d say this statement #16 is a little weaker than the other two like it, both of which were HOT! Seen alone, this one is extremely subtle. Seen with the other two, this one glows!
Dearest ex 10, I was speaking to mike, not in reference to what yoo wrote. Your posts have made so much sense to me, I am at loss as to understand how anybody could be impervious to the impact of their content :(
I wasn't impervious! I pondered what she wrote for hours, and tried to respond accordingly.
For you, the only results that count would be if I cursed God and died... figuratively.
I don't expect dramatic results like that from you folks. I'd just like to be able to OFFER it to you withour a lot of soap operas. I know no one changes over night, especially if they've been posting and debating for years on something.
Can't you be relatively happy that I don't COMPLETELY shun and avoid you folks like most TVT adherents do?
Come ON! Hopeful for WHAT? That I'd suddenly cave and throw something away I cherish and have worked hard for, to see better than before?
Please don't expect that from me. Expect my willingness to discuss, but not to submit and obey. The later expectation s so TWI-TVT like. When someone rejected my witnessing I learned to still be cheery to them. Tomorrow they might put a little water on the seed I planted.
Many here have tried to get me to cave because they just have not seen the huge mountain of truth I've seen since I came back to PFAL.
“Thus saith” statement #17 - SNS tape #214 - Light Began To Dawn
Since I'm doing Dr's "Thus saith the Lord" statements, why not include his accounts of the 1942 promise?
Here is one such account from that piece titled "Light Began to Dawn" posted in an earlier thread. Actually, that's not it's original title, as this was taken from within the announcements on an old SNS tape #214, from October 17, 1965.
*******
"And so, all of this stuff began to build. And so finally, as I kept praying, I just said to the Father, I said 'Father, teach me the Word––teach me the Word.' And one night, something happened, which to me is the greatest thing I don’t––I see only one experience that perhaps is greater than this in the Bible, and that’s the Apostle Paul’s experience on the road to Damascus. Outside of that, I see nothing in the Word that equals how God revealed Himself to me and talked to me and told me as plain as day: 'That if I would study the Word, He would teach me the Word like He had not been able to teach it to anybody since the first generation.'
And of course at that time I thought, 'Now that’s a dandy!' 'Boy, if I learned this Word of God, everybody’ll listen to me, the whole church will be blessed. My denomination will grow by leaps and bounds because we’ll have the Word of God.'
"And I thought that was terrific! But during the process of that revelation––and I can’t tell it all to you because we’re already closing off; but during the process of it, I said: 'Father, how will I know that this is You and that You’ll really teach it to me?' Because I had worked the Word in commentaries and the rest of it and I couldn’t understand it––couldn’t get it to fit. It happened to be bright sunshine like today––like it’s been today and yesterday––what we people refer to, I guess as 'Indian Summer'––beautiful day. And the sun was shining brightly; it was in the Fall of the year––gorgeous! And there wasn’t a cloud in the sky. And just on the inside of me it seemed to say, 'Well, just say to the Father, Well, if––if it’ll just snow––right now, you’ll just know that this is God talking to you.' But, you see I’d never had much experience with God talking to me, and this business of He saying to me, just as audibly as I’m speaking to you, that He’d teach me the Word if I’d teach it, sort of shook me.
"I’d been expecting to hear from heaven for a long time, but I hadn’t heard that way before, you know. Ah, my ears were perhaps clogged up, since that time I’ve heard a lot of things––from Him. But, then I said, 'Lord, if this is really true, I’d like to see it snow.' And I opened my eyes––must not have been over three seconds, and I was sitting in front of the window looking East, the sun was––ah, West. The sun was in the West and there wasn’t a cloud in the sky ‘cause I could see the whole area. I closed my eyes when God said to me that He would teach me the Word if I’d teach it. And I said, 'Lord, to know that this is true, I’d like to see it snow.' And I opened my eyes and it was pitch––almost pitch black outside and the snow was falling so thick, I have never seen it fall that thick since that day. And I sat in that little office and I cried like a baby, because I guess it was about my time to cry, because I’d grown up but didn’t know the Word.
"And from that day on and He’d promised to teach me the Word, I have tried with all my heart, from time to time––all along, to learn this Word. One of the reasons there are sections of the Word perhaps that I––I don’t know, because I do too much cement pouring and a few other items that have to be done and that have to be taken care of. But I am absolutely confident that there is no portion of God’s Word that God would not teach me and unfold to me if I studied the Word to show myself approved unto Him by rightly dividing it.
"And that began the ministry that has cost me, sense-knowledge, more than anybody will ever realize––except those of us who’ve gone through it. It gives ya’ a whole set of new friends. It caused people, heads of my denomination, through various times when I appeared teaching, like in India, even to write letters against me that I was not a member of the denomination at all––and I’d been born in the lousy place. Isn’t that something? And I have them on file––have them in my files, you ought to see ‘em, I got a sheet this big.
"These are prices you pay. Then you say, well, why don’t I reciprocate? Because, people, you can’t fight and work the Word too. You can’t be fighting all the time and trying to defend yourself against the unbelievers, because the unbelievers are many more than the believers. And we’ve got only one job to do, as far as my life is concerned, and that is to teach the Word. Whether anybody believes it or not, that’s not my responsibility. But to teach it is my responsibility, because He said He’d teach me the Word if I would do one thing––teach it.
"Now in order to teach it, I have to study the Word; and when I study it, He shows it to me, then I can teach it." . . . .
"Thus saith" statement #18 - The Way–Living In Love - ...since the first century...
About 6 years later, Dr again explained his 1942 experience to Elena Whiteside and she quoted him in her book "The Way - Living in Love." The following is from pages 178-181.
*******
"Then Rosalind left. It was the fall of the year. Kids were back in school already. It must have been September. I was sitting in my office, an old dentist's office just around the corner from the church where I served — I'll show you that too when we get there. I bet you it's still there, though I haven't been back here since I left.
"I was praying. And I told Father that He could have the whole thing, unless there were real genuine answers that I wouldn't ever have to back up on.
"And that's when He spoke to me audibly, just like I'm talking to you now. He said He would teach me the Word as it had not been known since the first century if I would teach it to others.
"Well, I nearly flew off my chair. I couldn't believe that God would talk to me." He shakes his head slowly smiling. "It's just too fantastic. People won't believe it. But He spoke to me just as plainly as I'm talking now to you."
"But really, why is it so strange? When you think about it, you see in the Bible that all through the ages God talked to people. God talked to Moses, to all the prophets. God talked to Paul. All through the centuries, God has talked to people in times of great need. And that's what we have today — a terrific need. People are just so far from hearing and believing the Word of God.
You don't get it in the theological schools. The Word is buried, just like it was in the time of Jeremiah. Oh, they had their priests, their higher echelons, their temples, their rituals. It all looked so religious, you know. But the Word of God was buried. Oh, they were teaching the people something -- they called it the Word of God maybe, but the Word was buried. God spoke directly to Jeremiah.
"The Word is buried today. If there's no one around to teach it, God has to teach it Himself. You see, I am a product of my times. God knew me before the foundations of the world, just like He knew you and everyone else. We were all in God's foreknowledge from the beginnings.
"God knew I would believe His Word. And every day I am more and more deeply convinced of this ministry which teaches people the accuracy and integrity of God's Word. Without this ministry the world would be in far greater spiritual darkness about His Word. There would be less light in the world. Where else but in this ministry do you find the Word of God so living and real? This is truly a time of terrific need." Doctor nods his head abruptly, as if to punctuate his urgency.
"Well, I couldn't believe that God talked to me right then. You see, God's right here. He always has been here. He is still here. And God is willing and able to reveal everything to anyone or everyone. But we are just unable to receive it. We don’t believe it. It's like, you can't pour a gallon of water in a teacup. It's just not big enough to receive it, take it all in. You have to make the cup bigger first. You build up the container, and then you fill it little by little. He fills us a little bit at a time as we can take it. He knows how much we can take because God knows everything. God doesn't waste His revelation on people who cannot believe it.
"Paul had to be tremendously built up to believe —receive — the mystery that had been hidden since before the foundations of the world. John, too, had to be built up to receive the revelation set forth in the book of Revelation. It's taken many years and a lot of trips and searching to build my believing to this point also. But God knows our hearts.
"Well, on the day God spoke to me, I couldn't believe it. But then I came to the point by the next day where I said to myself — maybe it's true. So the next day I talked to God again. I said, 'Lord, if it's really true what you said to me yesterday, if that was really you talking to me, you've got to give me a sign so that I really know, so that I can believe.'
"The sky was crystal blue and clear. Not a cloud in sight. It was a beautiful early autumn day. I said, 'If that was really you, and you meant what you said, give me a sign. Let me see it snow.’ My eyes were tightly shut as I prayed. And then I opened them.
"The sky was so white and thick with snow, I couldn't see the tanks at the filling station on the corner not 75 feet away." Doctor relates this phenomenon in a joyous voice. The car swerves off the highway, onto a narrow black-top road, and the sign with the arrow reads: "Payne, 2 miles." The overcast sky turns restlessly over our heads, and the sparse sprinkling of snowflakes thickens on the windshield. Doctor laughs aloud.
"It reminds me of that day in 1942. It reminds me of that other time it snowed." We pull into a sleepy, small midwestern town. Around two corners, we're by a one-story building, the front of which is a many-paned display window.
"That's the old dentist's office that was my office," Doctor remarks. By now, the snow is swirling around us. At the corner stands the Marathon Gas Station. Doctor shakes his head from side to side. His face breaks into a ready smile. His eyes are blue, laughing or crying. "It reminds me of the day..." he trails off. "That's where I was sitting when I prayed to God to teach me the Word and show me how. And when I opened my eyes, it was snowing so hard I couldn't see those gas pumps right there." He points to the pumps a dozen yards or more from the window. A car has just pulled in. The dentist's office is deserted now, empty through the window.
What about living it? ....THAT is the example that will bring the ring of truth to what you teach....That is why scripturally, I think that we are instructed to examine the fruit in a persons life....it tells us what is on the iinside.......God knows that it is too easy to fake Christianity on the outside
For you and other vpw doctrine adherants to continously tell us that irregardless of the scriptures....that examination of ones fruit is to be ignored....is enough to raise alarm bells.
Study teach teach study....ad nausium.....
Seems to me the scriptures serve simply as a guide to educate us into introducing us, teaching us to recognise and utilize that *spirit that dwells within to will and to do of his good pleasure*
The way you present it ..... pfal and scriptures are the ultimate end all be all in and of itself.......
I think that your formula could actually serve as a preventative of that intimate fellowship with God and your fellow believers.
How can mastery of pfal aid us in the two great commandments that Jesus spoke of?
It can`t ...it serves as a source of pain and division.
You wrote: "How can mastery of pfal aid us in the two great commandments that Jesus spoke of?"
Have you ever tried looking up where Jesus got that one greatest commandment in Deut. 6 and then see the section that follows on HOW to love God?
It involves saturating you life with God’s Word, like a fanatic, or an enthusiastic fan. Jesus did the part that follows this greatest commandment in Deut 6, so don’t criticize the prescription for HOW to love God first there too quickly.
Here it is:
Deuteronomy 6:1-12
“Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it: That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged. Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children,
and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house,
and when thou walkest by the way,
and when thou liest down,
and when thou risest up.
And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand,
and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house,
and on thy gates.
"And it shall be, when the LORD thy God shall have brought thee into the land which he sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give thee great and goodly cities, which thou buildedst not, And houses full of all good things, which thou filledst not, and wells digged, which thou diggedst not, vineyards and olive trees, which thou plantedst not; when thou shalt have eaten and be full; Then beware lest thou forget the LORD, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.”
It’s only logical that if we love someone we love their WORDS and fill our lives with them.
The "law of believing" is Wierwille's twist on positive/negative confession. The Way followers' own faith will cause whatever they believe (good or bad) to come true. Wierwille even claimed that a boy's death in an automobile accident was actually caused by his mother's fear that he may be hurt (Power for Abundant Living, pp. 37-44).
That really doesn`t make very much sense..... sorry. What you wrote seems to be old testament commandments and rules......Love God and Love your neighbor on *THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS rest ALL ALL ALL of the law.......
I love whom I love...studying their words ad nausium once introduced seems pretty silly to me....get to know them personally now today....NOT by what they wrote to someone else a long long time ago..
"Thus saith" statement #19 - 1979 Advanced Class seg 5 - must know this book
In the 1979 Advanced Class, Segment #5, Dr says the following:
"I have set for our people, and it’s set in the book on 'Receiving the Holy Spirit Today,' and people, when you reach the Advanced Class, you ought to be able almost to quote this line for line. You should have mastered this book by the time you get to the Advanced Class. If you haven’t, you better get busy and do it - work it to where you understand the Word of God in every facet, in every way of it’s utilization regarding the holy spirit field - all of them, you must know this book, in and out. But I’ve discovered as I’ve worked among my people, and even all the grads of the Advanced Class, there still are areas where we got to push ourselves."
This urging to the AC students was some 6 years prior to Dr's final instructions to us, yet has some striking similarities. In this 1979 statement he says outright that NONE of the top leadership (all AC grads) had done what they (we) needed to do. In 1985 he says, especially addressing top leadership, that there was a lot of the wrong kind of mastering going on, and none of the right kind.
That Dr would, in 1979, demand such rigorous RHST mastery of all his AC students can only mean that he thought such a book was WORTH mastering, and that it was NECESSARY to master if the Word of God was to be known. Such a worthy book could only come from God. That's why I count this 1979 AC segment #5 as "Thus saith the Lord" statement #19.
That is silly Mike, my 7 healthy children are proof of the falacy of that silly teaching.
They ARE however an indication of God`s wonderfull blessing upon my unworthey life.
It certainly would be arrogant to assume that his forbearance and goodness in permitting me the privelige of enjoying these wonderfull children and their good health as a result of anything that I could have possibly done mentally between my ears.
I enjoy and am humbly gratefull fo what he choses to bless me with....
I`ll tell you.....lol.....He generally has a way of making me look like a real fool when I start to belligerantly *demand* a prescibed set of results due to my mental pictures and believing.
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rascal
Not compare and shop why not? I think that it is important to utilize a yard stick that God uses in scripture.....you want to try to dismiss them as unimportant....like I am supposed to ignore what God has done because you say it wasn`t nearly enough or quite good enough....that somehow it would be better if I did it your way.
Well you damned well better have something of value in that grocery cart to show me than more hoops.
You percieve my posts as belly aching? I thought that we were simply discussing our pov`s ...
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ex10
oh geeze, rascal. I was referring to Mike's posts, not yours. He's trying to suck you, and me, in again. It's giving me a head/stomach ache.
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Mike
Ladies, PLEASE!
I'm not trying to suck anyone into anything. I’m just trying to show you that there's a lot to be learned IF YOU WANT TO LEARN.
No one's keeping anyone here to inflict headaches.
You all decide what to look at. Instead of looking at my posts, why not try PFAL sometime?
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"Thus saith" statement #13 – 1983 Magazine Article - fact & Christianity
Here's another of the many well hidden "Thus saith the Lord" statements we can find in Dr's teachings. This one has never been in my previous posts here at GSC. It's from the Sep/Oct 1983 Way Magazine where Dr's article focuses on a short list of vocabulary words that need to be sharply understood.
The list of words he handles in that article is: religion, Christianity, fact, truth, faith, believing, formed, made, created, body, soul, and spirit.
The title of the article is "The Importance of Words in God's Word."
The words "fact" and "Christianity" do NOT appear in the Young's Concordance or in the KJV, but they DO occur in the PFAL writings... a lot.
This again is pretty subtle. That’s probably why I never posted it before. Alone it’s very weak, but taken with all these other statements it gains strength.
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"Thus saith" statement #14 - !967 Film Class seg. 66 - I Thess 2:13
This next "thus saith" statement has already appeared above in this thread as I discussed statement #2, but I purposely avoided distracting myself by avoiding pointing it out. I'd like to know if anyone saw this that follows already. If not, we can consider it a little hidden, can we not?
This is the text from the last Session of the class, just before we were led into tongues. This time I'll boldly fontulate only that section for this statement #14
***
In that segment 66 of the '67 film class Dr says:
"And, in my classes on Power For Abundant Living, nobody ever gets missed, because, if you're in this class, you've heard the Word, you've believed God's Word, God is always faithful. And nobody ever misses, if you'll do exactly what I tell you to do, right down to the minute detail.
"It's like, in I Thessalonians, chapter 2, verse 13. Remember where the Apostle Paul said: 'I thank my God, that, when you received the Word of God which you heard of us, you received it not as the word of man, but as it is in truth, the Word of God.'
"Now, if you'll be as honest with God as that Word of God says, you too can walk into the greatness of the manifestation of the power of God. But, if you think this is just V.P. Wierwille talking, you'll never get it."
***
So this statement #14 is right in there with #2. We all heard it a maximum number of times in the film class.
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"Thus saith" statement #15 – 1967 Film Class seg 11 - I Thess 2:13
Interestingly enough, the preceding use of I Thess 2:13 in the film class was the THIRD time in the class Dr covered that verse. By the time that last session was reached, as described above in statement #14, Dr had TWICE already introduced the class to this verse and to Paul's authoritative teaching being "like" his own God-given authority.
Here's the first such occurrence of I Thess 2:13 in the film class.
This is segment 11:
You see very few of us have gone back to the Word, we have gone back to men. And we have said well what did Kant say, what did Plato say, what did Aristotle say, what did this theologian say, what did this man say, what did this other person say? Class, back to the Word! The Word and nothing but the Word! For it's this Word which is the Will of God! That's right, bless your heart.
Look at I Thessalonians, I Thessalonians chapter two; Acts, Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, I Thessalonians; the same trouble tonight I had before, this India paper is just a little to thin to find all these scriptures so quickly; but they're in here. I Thessalonians 2:13 listen to this: 'For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us,...'
You see they received the Word of God which they heard of Paul it was Paul's vocabulary but what he was speaking was God's Word.
But to the senses ears the people could have said, "well that's Paul talking, that's just Paul, yeah that's just Paul."
Like they say, "oh, that's just Dr. Wierwille, yeah..." I've heard that, no, no, no.
...thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually [which effectually] worketh also in you that [do one thing--go to church every Sunday morning, sit in the front pew and shout glory hallelujah, believe in all the social action programs;] no a thousand times no. Works effectually in those who do one thing. What? believe.
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“Thus saith" statement #16 – 1967 Film Class seg 13 – I Thess 2:13
This next occurrence of I Thess 2:13 is longer, more spread out, and more subtle. It's Dr second handling of this verse in the class.
This is near the end of segment 13:
Let me show you something from I Thessalonians two thirteen, listen to this: I Thessalonians 2:13: 'For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.'
You know, you may have the Word of God, you may know the Word of God but it does not work effectually in people. It does not work effectively with power until we do one thing. Believe. You believe that Word and lo and behold you speak that Word and it produces the same results today that it has produced at any time in the history of civilization since that Word has been given.
You know, the Bible says that we are to abide in the Word. We are to abide in the Word and we're to let this Word abide in you. To the end that we abide in the Word this Word takes the Master's place in our lives through our renewed mind and then it becomes our vocabulary but it is God's Word. We speak, this is our vocabulary, we speak the Word but as we speak the Word it is God's Word. 'I thank my God that when ye received the Word which ye heard of us ye received it not as the word of man,' sounds like it, 'but as the Word of God which worketh effectually in those that believe.'
This Word of God cannot be broken, that's right. Just cannot be broken, not one iota of it can be broken, for what God promised He is not only able but willing to perform and that whole Word fits like a hand in a glove.
You see it is this Word of God that really thrills a man. In Luke chapter twenty-four. Matthew, Mark, Luke, let me just check this with you. Luke twenty-four listen to verse thirty-two:Luke 24:32: 'And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?'
This was speaking about Jesus on the road to Emmaus after the ressurection as he spoke to these men. He opened unto them the scriptures. You see how their hearts thrilled, how their hearts burned within them because he opened to them the scriptures.
I've never seen a man or a woman or a boy or a girl in these classes on Power for Abundant Living whose soul just has not thrilled with an effervescence and with an abundance and with a glow when this Word of God started to unfold, started to fit like a hand in a glove. It made sense and how their hearts burned within them. How they thrilled at the greatness of God's Word!
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I’d say this statement #16 is a little weaker than the other two like it, both of which were HOT! Seen alone, this one is extremely subtle. Seen with the other two, this one glows!
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rascal
Dearest ex 10, I was speaking to mike, not in reference to what yoo wrote. Your posts have made so much sense to me, I am at loss as to understand how anybody could be impervious to the impact of their content :(
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I wasn't impervious! I pondered what she wrote for hours, and tried to respond accordingly.
For you, the only results that count would be if I cursed God and died... figuratively.
I don't expect dramatic results like that from you folks. I'd just like to be able to OFFER it to you withour a lot of soap operas. I know no one changes over night, especially if they've been posting and debating for years on something.
Can't you be relatively happy that I don't COMPLETELY shun and avoid you folks like most TVT adherents do?
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ex10
Thanks for the kind words, rascal. I almost got hopeful there for an instant. :unsure: But I was, once again, totally deluded. Sigh......oh well.
Mike, I think you enjoy the attention here way too much to ever shun us.
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Mike
ex10,
Come ON! Hopeful for WHAT? That I'd suddenly cave and throw something away I cherish and have worked hard for, to see better than before?
Please don't expect that from me. Expect my willingness to discuss, but not to submit and obey. The later expectation s so TWI-TVT like. When someone rejected my witnessing I learned to still be cheery to them. Tomorrow they might put a little water on the seed I planted.
Many here have tried to get me to cave because they just have not seen the huge mountain of truth I've seen since I came back to PFAL.
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rascal
Cursed God and died??? Oh my, no....If folks didn`t care about you .... they wouldn`t take the time to formulate thoughtfull responses exhibited here.
Your perceptions of folks here, their intent and even the content of their posts is out of whack.
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rascal,
that was a figure of speech meaning to cave in suddenly.
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“Thus saith” statement #17 - SNS tape #214 - Light Began To Dawn
Since I'm doing Dr's "Thus saith the Lord" statements, why not include his accounts of the 1942 promise?
Here is one such account from that piece titled "Light Began to Dawn" posted in an earlier thread. Actually, that's not it's original title, as this was taken from within the announcements on an old SNS tape #214, from October 17, 1965.
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"And so, all of this stuff began to build. And so finally, as I kept praying, I just said to the Father, I said 'Father, teach me the Word––teach me the Word.' And one night, something happened, which to me is the greatest thing I don’t––I see only one experience that perhaps is greater than this in the Bible, and that’s the Apostle Paul’s experience on the road to Damascus. Outside of that, I see nothing in the Word that equals how God revealed Himself to me and talked to me and told me as plain as day: 'That if I would study the Word, He would teach me the Word like He had not been able to teach it to anybody since the first generation.'
And of course at that time I thought, 'Now that’s a dandy!' 'Boy, if I learned this Word of God, everybody’ll listen to me, the whole church will be blessed. My denomination will grow by leaps and bounds because we’ll have the Word of God.'
"And I thought that was terrific! But during the process of that revelation––and I can’t tell it all to you because we’re already closing off; but during the process of it, I said: 'Father, how will I know that this is You and that You’ll really teach it to me?' Because I had worked the Word in commentaries and the rest of it and I couldn’t understand it––couldn’t get it to fit. It happened to be bright sunshine like today––like it’s been today and yesterday––what we people refer to, I guess as 'Indian Summer'––beautiful day. And the sun was shining brightly; it was in the Fall of the year––gorgeous! And there wasn’t a cloud in the sky. And just on the inside of me it seemed to say, 'Well, just say to the Father, Well, if––if it’ll just snow––right now, you’ll just know that this is God talking to you.' But, you see I’d never had much experience with God talking to me, and this business of He saying to me, just as audibly as I’m speaking to you, that He’d teach me the Word if I’d teach it, sort of shook me.
"I’d been expecting to hear from heaven for a long time, but I hadn’t heard that way before, you know. Ah, my ears were perhaps clogged up, since that time I’ve heard a lot of things––from Him. But, then I said, 'Lord, if this is really true, I’d like to see it snow.' And I opened my eyes––must not have been over three seconds, and I was sitting in front of the window looking East, the sun was––ah, West. The sun was in the West and there wasn’t a cloud in the sky ‘cause I could see the whole area. I closed my eyes when God said to me that He would teach me the Word if I’d teach it. And I said, 'Lord, to know that this is true, I’d like to see it snow.' And I opened my eyes and it was pitch––almost pitch black outside and the snow was falling so thick, I have never seen it fall that thick since that day. And I sat in that little office and I cried like a baby, because I guess it was about my time to cry, because I’d grown up but didn’t know the Word.
"And from that day on and He’d promised to teach me the Word, I have tried with all my heart, from time to time––all along, to learn this Word. One of the reasons there are sections of the Word perhaps that I––I don’t know, because I do too much cement pouring and a few other items that have to be done and that have to be taken care of. But I am absolutely confident that there is no portion of God’s Word that God would not teach me and unfold to me if I studied the Word to show myself approved unto Him by rightly dividing it.
"And that began the ministry that has cost me, sense-knowledge, more than anybody will ever realize––except those of us who’ve gone through it. It gives ya’ a whole set of new friends. It caused people, heads of my denomination, through various times when I appeared teaching, like in India, even to write letters against me that I was not a member of the denomination at all––and I’d been born in the lousy place. Isn’t that something? And I have them on file––have them in my files, you ought to see ‘em, I got a sheet this big.
"These are prices you pay. Then you say, well, why don’t I reciprocate? Because, people, you can’t fight and work the Word too. You can’t be fighting all the time and trying to defend yourself against the unbelievers, because the unbelievers are many more than the believers. And we’ve got only one job to do, as far as my life is concerned, and that is to teach the Word. Whether anybody believes it or not, that’s not my responsibility. But to teach it is my responsibility, because He said He’d teach me the Word if I would do one thing––teach it.
"Now in order to teach it, I have to study the Word; and when I study it, He shows it to me, then I can teach it." . . . .
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"Thus saith" statement #18 - The Way–Living In Love - ...since the first century...
About 6 years later, Dr again explained his 1942 experience to Elena Whiteside and she quoted him in her book "The Way - Living in Love." The following is from pages 178-181.
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"Then Rosalind left. It was the fall of the year. Kids were back in school already. It must have been September. I was sitting in my office, an old dentist's office just around the corner from the church where I served — I'll show you that too when we get there. I bet you it's still there, though I haven't been back here since I left.
"I was praying. And I told Father that He could have the whole thing, unless there were real genuine answers that I wouldn't ever have to back up on.
"And that's when He spoke to me audibly, just like I'm talking to you now. He said He would teach me the Word as it had not been known since the first century if I would teach it to others.
"Well, I nearly flew off my chair. I couldn't believe that God would talk to me." He shakes his head slowly smiling. "It's just too fantastic. People won't believe it. But He spoke to me just as plainly as I'm talking now to you."
"But really, why is it so strange? When you think about it, you see in the Bible that all through the ages God talked to people. God talked to Moses, to all the prophets. God talked to Paul. All through the centuries, God has talked to people in times of great need. And that's what we have today — a terrific need. People are just so far from hearing and believing the Word of God.
You don't get it in the theological schools. The Word is buried, just like it was in the time of Jeremiah. Oh, they had their priests, their higher echelons, their temples, their rituals. It all looked so religious, you know. But the Word of God was buried. Oh, they were teaching the people something -- they called it the Word of God maybe, but the Word was buried. God spoke directly to Jeremiah.
"The Word is buried today. If there's no one around to teach it, God has to teach it Himself. You see, I am a product of my times. God knew me before the foundations of the world, just like He knew you and everyone else. We were all in God's foreknowledge from the beginnings.
"God knew I would believe His Word. And every day I am more and more deeply convinced of this ministry which teaches people the accuracy and integrity of God's Word. Without this ministry the world would be in far greater spiritual darkness about His Word. There would be less light in the world. Where else but in this ministry do you find the Word of God so living and real? This is truly a time of terrific need." Doctor nods his head abruptly, as if to punctuate his urgency.
"Well, I couldn't believe that God talked to me right then. You see, God's right here. He always has been here. He is still here. And God is willing and able to reveal everything to anyone or everyone. But we are just unable to receive it. We don’t believe it. It's like, you can't pour a gallon of water in a teacup. It's just not big enough to receive it, take it all in. You have to make the cup bigger first. You build up the container, and then you fill it little by little. He fills us a little bit at a time as we can take it. He knows how much we can take because God knows everything. God doesn't waste His revelation on people who cannot believe it.
"Paul had to be tremendously built up to believe —receive — the mystery that had been hidden since before the foundations of the world. John, too, had to be built up to receive the revelation set forth in the book of Revelation. It's taken many years and a lot of trips and searching to build my believing to this point also. But God knows our hearts.
"Well, on the day God spoke to me, I couldn't believe it. But then I came to the point by the next day where I said to myself — maybe it's true. So the next day I talked to God again. I said, 'Lord, if it's really true what you said to me yesterday, if that was really you talking to me, you've got to give me a sign so that I really know, so that I can believe.'
"The sky was crystal blue and clear. Not a cloud in sight. It was a beautiful early autumn day. I said, 'If that was really you, and you meant what you said, give me a sign. Let me see it snow.’ My eyes were tightly shut as I prayed. And then I opened them.
"The sky was so white and thick with snow, I couldn't see the tanks at the filling station on the corner not 75 feet away." Doctor relates this phenomenon in a joyous voice. The car swerves off the highway, onto a narrow black-top road, and the sign with the arrow reads: "Payne, 2 miles." The overcast sky turns restlessly over our heads, and the sparse sprinkling of snowflakes thickens on the windshield. Doctor laughs aloud.
"It reminds me of that day in 1942. It reminds me of that other time it snowed." We pull into a sleepy, small midwestern town. Around two corners, we're by a one-story building, the front of which is a many-paned display window.
"That's the old dentist's office that was my office," Doctor remarks. By now, the snow is swirling around us. At the corner stands the Marathon Gas Station. Doctor shakes his head from side to side. His face breaks into a ready smile. His eyes are blue, laughing or crying. "It reminds me of the day..." he trails off. "That's where I was sitting when I prayed to God to teach me the Word and show me how. And when I opened my eyes, it was snowing so hard I couldn't see those gas pumps right there." He points to the pumps a dozen yards or more from the window. A car has just pulled in. The dentist's office is deserted now, empty through the window.
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ex10
Mike,
I was hopeful that you would consider someone else's perspective, that's all.
It would be a first for you here.
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rascal
Study teach study teach....study teach....
What about living it? ....THAT is the example that will bring the ring of truth to what you teach....That is why scripturally, I think that we are instructed to examine the fruit in a persons life....it tells us what is on the iinside.......God knows that it is too easy to fake Christianity on the outside
For you and other vpw doctrine adherants to continously tell us that irregardless of the scriptures....that examination of ones fruit is to be ignored....is enough to raise alarm bells.
Study teach teach study....ad nausium.....
Seems to me the scriptures serve simply as a guide to educate us into introducing us, teaching us to recognise and utilize that *spirit that dwells within to will and to do of his good pleasure*
The way you present it ..... pfal and scriptures are the ultimate end all be all in and of itself.......
I think that your formula could actually serve as a preventative of that intimate fellowship with God and your fellow believers.
How can mastery of pfal aid us in the two great commandments that Jesus spoke of?
It can`t ...it serves as a source of pain and division.
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rascal,
You wrote: "How can mastery of pfal aid us in the two great commandments that Jesus spoke of?"
Have you ever tried looking up where Jesus got that one greatest commandment in Deut. 6 and then see the section that follows on HOW to love God?
It involves saturating you life with God’s Word, like a fanatic, or an enthusiastic fan. Jesus did the part that follows this greatest commandment in Deut 6, so don’t criticize the prescription for HOW to love God first there too quickly.
Here it is:
Deuteronomy 6:1-12
“Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it: That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged. Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children,
and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house,
and when thou walkest by the way,
and when thou liest down,
and when thou risest up.
And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand,
and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house,
and on thy gates.
"And it shall be, when the LORD thy God shall have brought thee into the land which he sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give thee great and goodly cities, which thou buildedst not, And houses full of all good things, which thou filledst not, and wells digged, which thou diggedst not, vineyards and olive trees, which thou plantedst not; when thou shalt have eaten and be full; Then beware lest thou forget the LORD, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.”
It’s only logical that if we love someone we love their WORDS and fill our lives with them.
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CM
The "law of believing" is Wierwille's twist on positive/negative confession. The Way followers' own faith will cause whatever they believe (good or bad) to come true. Wierwille even claimed that a boy's death in an automobile accident was actually caused by his mother's fear that he may be hurt (Power for Abundant Living, pp. 37-44).
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rascal
That really doesn`t make very much sense..... sorry. What you wrote seems to be old testament commandments and rules......Love God and Love your neighbor on *THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS rest ALL ALL ALL of the law.......
I love whom I love...studying their words ad nausium once introduced seems pretty silly to me....get to know them personally now today....NOT by what they wrote to someone else a long long time ago..
Love God Love your neighbor....
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CM,
You forgot to include that it was the mother's GREAT and PERSISTENT fear that got bad results.
That's what is written there.
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CM
noone's fear will kill anyone period
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rascal,
I know when it get's to be too much for me and I back off.
You could do the same, both with PFAL and with this thread.
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CM
and maybe you want to bring up Job-lol
you are in over your head on Job
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CM,
I'm not headed toward Job. Why do you mention it?
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"Thus saith" statement #19 - 1979 Advanced Class seg 5 - must know this book
In the 1979 Advanced Class, Segment #5, Dr says the following:
"I have set for our people, and it’s set in the book on 'Receiving the Holy Spirit Today,' and people, when you reach the Advanced Class, you ought to be able almost to quote this line for line. You should have mastered this book by the time you get to the Advanced Class. If you haven’t, you better get busy and do it - work it to where you understand the Word of God in every facet, in every way of it’s utilization regarding the holy spirit field - all of them, you must know this book, in and out. But I’ve discovered as I’ve worked among my people, and even all the grads of the Advanced Class, there still are areas where we got to push ourselves."
This urging to the AC students was some 6 years prior to Dr's final instructions to us, yet has some striking similarities. In this 1979 statement he says outright that NONE of the top leadership (all AC grads) had done what they (we) needed to do. In 1985 he says, especially addressing top leadership, that there was a lot of the wrong kind of mastering going on, and none of the right kind.
That Dr would, in 1979, demand such rigorous RHST mastery of all his AC students can only mean that he thought such a book was WORTH mastering, and that it was NECESSARY to master if the Word of God was to be known. Such a worthy book could only come from God. That's why I count this 1979 AC segment #5 as "Thus saith the Lord" statement #19.
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rascal
That is silly Mike, my 7 healthy children are proof of the falacy of that silly teaching.
They ARE however an indication of God`s wonderfull blessing upon my unworthey life.
It certainly would be arrogant to assume that his forbearance and goodness in permitting me the privelige of enjoying these wonderfull children and their good health as a result of anything that I could have possibly done mentally between my ears.
I enjoy and am humbly gratefull fo what he choses to bless me with....
I`ll tell you.....lol.....He generally has a way of making me look like a real fool when I start to belligerantly *demand* a prescibed set of results due to my mental pictures and believing.
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CM
because this is what vp used to prove his points on believing
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