“Thus saith” statement #20 - "The Joy of Serving" – master PFAL (twice)
After posting it so many times before, I’ll refrain from posting the text now, but Dr's Last/Lost Teaching, should be counted as "Thus saith" #20.
A teacher of God's Word nearly on his deathbed wouldn't TWICE point to his own writings and tell his beloved students to master them unless he KNEW that those writings were really of God.
A teacher of God's Word nearly on his deathbed wouldn't TWICE point to his own writings and tell his beloved students to master them unless he KNEW that those writings were really of God.
"Thus saith" Statement #21 - Last Emporia Teaching - take the collaterals and master them
Reconstructing past events is no where near as accurate as printed records or tapes, but some things can be brought out by memory and partial print/tape records, especially if it's multiple witness testimony.
An interesting example of such a reconstruction came to me by e-mail.
Several years ago I posted a small announcement on the http://www.eph320.com/ website about finding Dr's last teaching, "The Joy of Serving." It was posted there for about a year and I received about 40 inquiries (some of whom post here) which then led to many other contacts. In this way (and others) I conducted an informal poll where the results showed that a staggering 99% of all non-Corps grads were completely unaware of Dr's last teaching.
Nearly all of the respondents to the "eph320" announcement were unaware of this last teaching so I sent them copies. Like in my posting here, I also offered them other e-documents of VPW's material. A number of these people developed into pen pals over time. Reproduced below is a letter I received from one such person regarding Dr's last teaching at Emporia. Your going to see a pattern developing.
Dear Mike,
Yes, we certainly would like more. Hey! My name is MB. I used to be MS and I was in the XXth Corps. I was wondering if you were in the Corps too or if by chance I might have met you? I just wanted you to know I certainly did enjoy reading "The Joy of Service" again.
The year that Dr. Wierwille died, I was in residence at the Way College of Emporia. I will never forget the last 10:30 Fellowship we had with him up in the Ambassador Room.
He said,
Kids, the Word is not going to go over the world unless you and I take the collaterals and master them to the point you can teach them at the drop of a hat to someone you happen to run into.
He said,
Its not in how many classes you run, its in how much of The Word of God you know and are able to teach on the spur of the moment.
He said,
You've got to master it. And what I mean by mastering it is you don't turn to the next page until you completely understand and have committed to memory the first.
I have never forgotten those words and have shared them many times with believers that I know and with our fellowship that W and I ran for 9 years before we moved to XY. So it really blessed me to read your e-mail and see that someone else really caught on to the greatness of what Dr. was saying. God is great. We love you our brother and we will be anticipating more.
God Bless You, MB
I keep in mind that this "record" of Dr's at Emporia is anecdotal, from an attendee's memory, and not a tape or published transcript. However, stacked with the accumulating mountain of hard evidence, this soft evidence can be appreciated since it fits well with that mountain. It in no way contradicts it, and adds more supporting data. I feel confident in placing this in the category of secondary confirmation of the theme that Dr wanted us to master the PFAL books, and NOT merely some of the principles in them. We aren't qualified to say what ALL those principles ARE until we've finished mastering everything.
Just to enrich your appreciation of these Emporia words, let's look again at these near-quotes of Dr:
1. Kids, the Word is not going to go over the world unless you and I take the collaterals and master them to the point you can teach them at the drop of a hat to someone you happen to run into.
2. Its not in how many classes you run, its in how much of The Word of God you know and are able to teach on the spur of the moment.
3. You've got to master it. And what I mean by mastering it is you don't turn to the next page until you completely understand and have committed to memory the first.
In the first paragraph (1) he instructs us to master the collaterals ...................to the degree of total impromptu teaching adeptness.
In the second paragraph (2) he instructs us to know "The Word of God" ...................to the degree of total impromptu teaching adeptness.
Does this seem to imply something? Did Dr say by implication that the collaterals are or reveal or give us The Word of God here?
***
It would seem, to a casual observer, that he was talking in paragraph (2) about KJV Bible mastery. Then similarly paragraph (3) would also refer to traditional Bible mastery, BUT that would be an impossible task.
However, if he was talking about the collaterals in all three paragraphs, then it's a totally do-able mastery task for us all, and everything fits consistently here, as well as with the other hard evidence we have.
The collaterals CAN mastered. That's not an impossible task at all. Mastering the KJV/etc is not humanly possible. Just "Figures of Speech" can fully occupy a full-time scholar's entire life span.
If at Emporia Dr meant collaterals in paragraphs (3) and (2) then this last Emporia address would then be in complete harmony with "The Joy of Serving" where collateral mastery is explicitly mentioned.
From that 1979 Advanced Class Segment #5 quote I posted, until his death in 1985, Dr explicitly hammered away at our need to master the collaterals. I understand now why he did this, after having worked on this mastery for over 7 years now. There's lots of surprises hidden in them. Lots of confirmation that it's the right track back to what we used to have, and more. Lots of apparent contradictions in the get cleared up as we go.
***
And now, just for further insight, let's compare these Emporia paragraphs with the 1979 magazine article "Masters of the Word" that I posted long ago and discussed in detail. There are several sentences in "Masters of the Word" that I'd like to point out.
These exact quotes of Dr's from that teaching are:
1. We can only recondition ourselves to this as we ourselves become masters of the Word.
2. And if you want to know about the head of the Body, you've got to go to God's Word and read it.
3. This is why we have to be masters of the Word, we have to gain a knowledge of God, and we have to get our minds at peace with the Word so that our minds are no longer warring against it.
4. You've got to get to that point that you quit disputing with God's Word; just start believing it and then master it.
5. We just have to master the Word and let the Word have mastery in our lives.
6. Mastery of God's Word is not just my pleasure and responsibility because I am a preacher or a teacher. It is as much yours as it is mine...
7. Let's become masters of God's Word and let it reign supreme in our lives.
We see that in all of these sentences from that article, whenever Dr refers to God's Word he doesn't mean the KJV, he means the collaterals. The KJV is for beginners, but not for mastery. We have something much better in PFAL and straight from God.
I count Dr's last Emporia teaching as "Thus saith the Lord" number twenty-one.
When I first started posting I once confused this passage from OMSW and it’s mention of a microscope with another passage nearby mentioning a telescope. There were telescope jokes aimed at me for a long time after that.
On page 25-26 of OMSW there is an interesting passage for our inspection. There we read (with my bold fonts):
"Blind chance was not the author of life. Explore the mineral kingdom; explore the animal kingdom; explore the vegetable kingdom. From the lowest to the highest, there are marks that specifically call our attention to the superbly conceived reality of that which we observe. Some great design, some great intelligence confronts us everywhere we look in the realm of creation. We can always see an intelligent purpose behind this realm, which was brought about by some type of consistent power.
"Take a microscope, even a low-powered one. Focus under its lens an eyeglass, for example. You would see some imperfections in the glass, although perhaps only a few. Next, focus a high-powered microscope on the same eyeglass. You will find that the more high-powered the microscope, the greater the imperfections that will be seen in the glass. There are imperfections in anything man-made.
"This example of the eyeglass demonstrates a principle. The more high-powered the microscope used to observe the works of man the more imperfect the object appears. On the other hand, the more high-powered the microscope used to look upon something that God formed or made, the more perfect and orderly it appears. The closer the scrutiny of God’s Word, the more obvious become its beauty and perfection. It is only a man who uses a poor microscope who never sees the greatness of God’s Word. He does not observe it to see its perfection."
Now here we have an interesting situation. In Dr's last months, when this book, "Order My Steps in Thy Word," was being written he was also challenging grads left and right to master the collaterals. I didn't mention this, but at least two of his final Limb Meetings in those months he also told us grads to master PFAL. That makes two Limbs, Emporia, and Gartmore. Add to this Sound Out'84 the year prior. And I've heard of even more.
Do you get it?
In those final months of Dr's life this book is released. There he writes that a microscope will reveal imperfections in man's work, but great beauty, perfection, and intelligent design in God's Word.
In those same final months Dr was ALSO telling us grads to master PFAL, to look MUCH closer at PFAL, like with a microscope, to see its great beauty, perfection, and intelligent design... that it is the Word of God.
***
We read above: "It is only a man who uses a poor microscope who never sees the greatness of God’s Word."
Let's look closer at PFAL, putting aside all the drama that has enveloped us these past 20 years, focus our microscopes on PFAL, and once again taste the Greatness of God Who gave us such light.
Hey, Mike. All kidding and joking around aside, it's been nice conversing with you. You have been quite the gentleman and I appreciate that. I think I understand your pov much better. I don't agree with it, but hey, it's a free country.
I guess we CAN play nice, huh? Sometimes I have trouble with my inner know-it-all-smarty-pants rearing its ugly head. But you have been quite gracious. Thanks for that.
Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Genesis 12:7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.
1 Timothy 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ
Well now, I think everyone needed a break, including me.
Here is a summary of the first 22 “Thus saith the lord” statements of Dr’s, with red fonts to indicate the items I think are strongest. I've also included the post numbers where each item is introduced.
1 - TNDC p.34 - every word true - post #294
2 - TNDC p.116 - not VPW but Holy Spirit - posts #294, 310
3 - PFAL p. 83 - necessarily God-breathed - post #312
4 - Volume I - Preface - it alone - #317
5 - Volume II - Preface - it alone - #317
6 - Volume III - Preface - it alone - #317
7 - Volume IV - Preface - it alone - #317
8 - OMSW p. 124 - many, many times - #321
9 - JCNG - Introduction - appointed spokesman - #322
10 - RHST Introduction to Appendixes - the paragraph, and the section - #337
11 - RHST Introduction to Appendixes - quietly accept that which is untraceable - #337
13 - 1983 Magazine Article - fact & Christianity in the Word - #354
14 - 1967 Film Class seg 66 - I Thessalonians 2:13 - #354
15 - 1967 Film Class seg 11 - I Thessalonians 2:13 - #355
16 - 1967 Film Class seg 13 - I Thessalonians 2:13 - #356
17 - SNS tape 214 - Light Began To Dawn - God revealed Himself to me - #362
18 - The Way–Living In Love – p. 178 - He said He would teach me - #363
19 - 1979 Advanced Class seg 5 - must know this book - #373
20 - The Joy of Serving - master PFAL (twice) - #377
21 - Last Emporia Teaching - take the collaterals and master them - #381
22 - OMSW pages 25,26 – take a microscope - #382
There are several more strong statements to write up, and oodles of the more well hidden ones. These will come someday.
There also are several immediate additions I could make, by taking a book quote already on the list here and finding it’s corresponding magazine article and then it’s corresponding SNS tape, or by taking film class entries and finding their corresponding pages in the PFAL book, etc., etc.
Such multiple entry additions wouldn’t count on the basis of textual substance, but they WOULD count for the purposes for which I have produced this list.
To review those purposes for this list:
Many times posters here have claimed that Dr did NOT make the claims I’ve been posting on for three years need to see that there are many things they missed in PFAL, especially written PFAL, not merely these 22 (and more) “thus saith” statements.
Many times posters have claimed that PFAL failed them, but I say we all failed to properly and fully absorb PFAL.
When we all come back to written PFAL we will find that every word is true, as per statement #1.
Think of the principles such as believing and confession as stated in the KJV, just to get away from PFAL for a second.
I don’t think God put in the Bible principles like believing and confession so we can look back on incidents in our lives and make judgment calls. I don’t even think we CAN look back like that accurately. Those principles are for application.
There are many factors to consider in the law of believing as stated in PFAL, and if we go by the simple abbreviated forms then sure we’ll see contradictions. Confession is more than making the sounds come out. It’s a heart thing.
*******
oldiesman,
Yes I know that is your pet peeve.
It’s a bit off topic, the latest sub-topic, that is, but I know it bugs you.
Here’s what I can say about this off the top of my head:
1) Instead, though, of looking at the few points that don’t yet fit for you, why not celebrate the many more that DO FIT? I to had lots of problems with CSBP and tithing, but they gradually went away as I re-familiarized myself with the many more ideas that didn’t go against my grain. It also helped tremendously to have a place to tithe TO that I felt was worthy of it. Doing it generates more understanding than thinking about it.
2) IF it’s the case that written PFAL is God-breathed, THEN the material wealth you have already received is HUGE! Those books and magazine articles are worth FAR more than they could ever go for on e-Bay.
3) It’s also the case that the spiritual meanings and benefits that come by way of CSBP and tithing are far more important than the 5-senses, physical meanings an benefits.
4) Back to the physical, if you have more than food, clothing, and shelter you have more physical wealth than most human beings that ever lived. Expecting more, in some ways, might best be looked on with suspicion by oneself, avoiding making the same call for anyone else. Look at how the fist century believers gave all that wasn’t a need, not even counting it as their own. I’d say if you have more than you need you’re living well, maybe not by lush, greedy, modern standards, but by God’s standards for runners in this race to the finish.
The principles laid out in the Bible are wonderful. Turning them into a "law" was error.
I confessed with my mouth what I believed in my heart, and it did not come to pass. Instead of trying to figure out where the (nonexistent) law of believing failed (which it did), I'm busy praising and thanking God.
If we look at that word in a human legal sense or in a Mosaic Law sense, then I'd agree that error is right around the corner.
If we look at it like a scientific law or pattern, then it fits.
There are many factors involved in "operating" such a pattern or law, but only a few that are within or grasp of fine tuning.
I think the word "law" works well if you keep these things in mind.
Mike,
You're acting as if I've claimed that the "law" of believing is a human-type or Mosaic-type law. That's stupid. It's not what I ever said; it's not what I ever meant.
As a matter of scientific-type laws, THERE IS NO LAW OF BELIEVING. It flat out does not work.
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Mike
rascal,
I suggested a cure for your nausea: back away from what causes it. Just a suggestion.
*******
CM,
I’m not going into the law of believing just now. Maybe some other day soon.
**************************************************************
**************************************************************
**************************************************************
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“Thus saith” statement #20 - "The Joy of Serving" – master PFAL (twice)
After posting it so many times before, I’ll refrain from posting the text now, but Dr's Last/Lost Teaching, should be counted as "Thus saith" #20.
A teacher of God's Word nearly on his deathbed wouldn't TWICE point to his own writings and tell his beloved students to master them unless he KNEW that those writings were really of God.
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CM
furthermore Job is an allegory
amazing the the similar things of Job and Jesus
yeah well he was wrong...lol
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Mike
CM,
Start a thread on Job and believing if you have a lot to say about it.
Right now I'm concentrating on getting these 22 statements re-posted, and I anticipate many days of discussion on them.
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rascal
Ya THINK clay??
Mike you are pretty bossey about who can post what here.
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Mike
"Thus saith" Statement #21 - Last Emporia Teaching - take the collaterals and master them
Reconstructing past events is no where near as accurate as printed records or tapes, but some things can be brought out by memory and partial print/tape records, especially if it's multiple witness testimony.
An interesting example of such a reconstruction came to me by e-mail.
Several years ago I posted a small announcement on the http://www.eph320.com/ website about finding Dr's last teaching, "The Joy of Serving." It was posted there for about a year and I received about 40 inquiries (some of whom post here) which then led to many other contacts. In this way (and others) I conducted an informal poll where the results showed that a staggering 99% of all non-Corps grads were completely unaware of Dr's last teaching.
Nearly all of the respondents to the "eph320" announcement were unaware of this last teaching so I sent them copies. Like in my posting here, I also offered them other e-documents of VPW's material. A number of these people developed into pen pals over time. Reproduced below is a letter I received from one such person regarding Dr's last teaching at Emporia. Your going to see a pattern developing.
Dear Mike,
Yes, we certainly would like more. Hey! My name is MB. I used to be MS and I was in the XXth Corps. I was wondering if you were in the Corps too or if by chance I might have met you? I just wanted you to know I certainly did enjoy reading "The Joy of Service" again.
The year that Dr. Wierwille died, I was in residence at the Way College of Emporia. I will never forget the last 10:30 Fellowship we had with him up in the Ambassador Room.
He said,
Kids, the Word is not going to go over the world unless you and I take the collaterals and master them to the point you can teach them at the drop of a hat to someone you happen to run into.
He said,
Its not in how many classes you run, its in how much of The Word of God you know and are able to teach on the spur of the moment.
He said,
You've got to master it. And what I mean by mastering it is you don't turn to the next page until you completely understand and have committed to memory the first.
I have never forgotten those words and have shared them many times with believers that I know and with our fellowship that W and I ran for 9 years before we moved to XY. So it really blessed me to read your e-mail and see that someone else really caught on to the greatness of what Dr. was saying. God is great. We love you our brother and we will be anticipating more.
God Bless You, MB
I keep in mind that this "record" of Dr's at Emporia is anecdotal, from an attendee's memory, and not a tape or published transcript. However, stacked with the accumulating mountain of hard evidence, this soft evidence can be appreciated since it fits well with that mountain. It in no way contradicts it, and adds more supporting data. I feel confident in placing this in the category of secondary confirmation of the theme that Dr wanted us to master the PFAL books, and NOT merely some of the principles in them. We aren't qualified to say what ALL those principles ARE until we've finished mastering everything.
Just to enrich your appreciation of these Emporia words, let's look again at these near-quotes of Dr:
1. Kids, the Word is not going to go over the world unless you and I take the collaterals and master them to the point you can teach them at the drop of a hat to someone you happen to run into.
2. Its not in how many classes you run, its in how much of The Word of God you know and are able to teach on the spur of the moment.
3. You've got to master it. And what I mean by mastering it is you don't turn to the next page until you completely understand and have committed to memory the first.
In the first paragraph (1) he instructs us to master the collaterals ...................to the degree of total impromptu teaching adeptness.
In the second paragraph (2) he instructs us to know "The Word of God" ...................to the degree of total impromptu teaching adeptness.
Does this seem to imply something? Did Dr say by implication that the collaterals are or reveal or give us The Word of God here?
***
It would seem, to a casual observer, that he was talking in paragraph (2) about KJV Bible mastery. Then similarly paragraph (3) would also refer to traditional Bible mastery, BUT that would be an impossible task.
However, if he was talking about the collaterals in all three paragraphs, then it's a totally do-able mastery task for us all, and everything fits consistently here, as well as with the other hard evidence we have.
The collaterals CAN mastered. That's not an impossible task at all. Mastering the KJV/etc is not humanly possible. Just "Figures of Speech" can fully occupy a full-time scholar's entire life span.
If at Emporia Dr meant collaterals in paragraphs (3) and (2) then this last Emporia address would then be in complete harmony with "The Joy of Serving" where collateral mastery is explicitly mentioned.
From that 1979 Advanced Class Segment #5 quote I posted, until his death in 1985, Dr explicitly hammered away at our need to master the collaterals. I understand now why he did this, after having worked on this mastery for over 7 years now. There's lots of surprises hidden in them. Lots of confirmation that it's the right track back to what we used to have, and more. Lots of apparent contradictions in the get cleared up as we go.
***
And now, just for further insight, let's compare these Emporia paragraphs with the 1979 magazine article "Masters of the Word" that I posted long ago and discussed in detail. There are several sentences in "Masters of the Word" that I'd like to point out.
These exact quotes of Dr's from that teaching are:
1. We can only recondition ourselves to this as we ourselves become masters of the Word.
2. And if you want to know about the head of the Body, you've got to go to God's Word and read it.
3. This is why we have to be masters of the Word, we have to gain a knowledge of God, and we have to get our minds at peace with the Word so that our minds are no longer warring against it.
4. You've got to get to that point that you quit disputing with God's Word; just start believing it and then master it.
5. We just have to master the Word and let the Word have mastery in our lives.
6. Mastery of God's Word is not just my pleasure and responsibility because I am a preacher or a teacher. It is as much yours as it is mine...
7. Let's become masters of God's Word and let it reign supreme in our lives.
We see that in all of these sentences from that article, whenever Dr refers to God's Word he doesn't mean the KJV, he means the collaterals. The KJV is for beginners, but not for mastery. We have something much better in PFAL and straight from God.
I count Dr's last Emporia teaching as "Thus saith the Lord" number twenty-one.
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Mike
"Thus saith" statement #22 - OMSW pages 25,26 - a microscope
When I first started posting I once confused this passage from OMSW and it’s mention of a microscope with another passage nearby mentioning a telescope. There were telescope jokes aimed at me for a long time after that.
On page 25-26 of OMSW there is an interesting passage for our inspection. There we read (with my bold fonts):
"Blind chance was not the author of life. Explore the mineral kingdom; explore the animal kingdom; explore the vegetable kingdom. From the lowest to the highest, there are marks that specifically call our attention to the superbly conceived reality of that which we observe. Some great design, some great intelligence confronts us everywhere we look in the realm of creation. We can always see an intelligent purpose behind this realm, which was brought about by some type of consistent power.
"Take a microscope, even a low-powered one. Focus under its lens an eyeglass, for example. You would see some imperfections in the glass, although perhaps only a few. Next, focus a high-powered microscope on the same eyeglass. You will find that the more high-powered the microscope, the greater the imperfections that will be seen in the glass. There are imperfections in anything man-made.
"This example of the eyeglass demonstrates a principle. The more high-powered the microscope used to observe the works of man the more imperfect the object appears. On the other hand, the more high-powered the microscope used to look upon something that God formed or made, the more perfect and orderly it appears. The closer the scrutiny of God’s Word, the more obvious become its beauty and perfection. It is only a man who uses a poor microscope who never sees the greatness of God’s Word. He does not observe it to see its perfection."
Now here we have an interesting situation. In Dr's last months, when this book, "Order My Steps in Thy Word," was being written he was also challenging grads left and right to master the collaterals. I didn't mention this, but at least two of his final Limb Meetings in those months he also told us grads to master PFAL. That makes two Limbs, Emporia, and Gartmore. Add to this Sound Out'84 the year prior. And I've heard of even more.
Do you get it?
In those final months of Dr's life this book is released. There he writes that a microscope will reveal imperfections in man's work, but great beauty, perfection, and intelligent design in God's Word.
In those same final months Dr was ALSO telling us grads to master PFAL, to look MUCH closer at PFAL, like with a microscope, to see its great beauty, perfection, and intelligent design... that it is the Word of God.
***
We read above: "It is only a man who uses a poor microscope who never sees the greatness of God’s Word."
Let's look closer at PFAL, putting aside all the drama that has enveloped us these past 20 years, focus our microscopes on PFAL, and once again taste the Greatness of God Who gave us such light.
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Mike
rascal and CM,
I'm not being bossy about who can post here, just suggesting logical choices that seem to me to have been overlooked.
***
I'm finally done now with the first 22 statements.
WordWolf, please have at it.
What the Hey, thanks for getting me in gear faster than I had planned.
I have a few scraps left to post regarding the hidden nature of many of these statements, but it can wait.
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ex10
Hey, Mike. All kidding and joking around aside, it's been nice conversing with you. You have been quite the gentleman and I appreciate that. I think I understand your pov much better. I don't agree with it, but hey, it's a free country.
I guess we CAN play nice, huh? Sometimes I have trouble with my inner know-it-all-smarty-pants rearing its ugly head. But you have been quite gracious. Thanks for that.
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Mike
I'm honored.
There's tons to talk about.
Maybe we can do the Appearing Administration and related topics next.
That can get really FARRRRR out!
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dmiller
(And this didn't???)
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CM
1st usage
Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Genesis 12:7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.
1 Timothy 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ
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Mike
What's that, dmiller? You want me to do ANOTHER 22?!
Well, I'll have to rummage around a little and see what I can whip together.
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dmiller
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Mike
Well now, I think everyone needed a break, including me.
Here is a summary of the first 22 “Thus saith the lord” statements of Dr’s, with red fonts to indicate the items I think are strongest. I've also included the post numbers where each item is introduced.
1 - TNDC p.34 - every word true - post #294
2 - TNDC p.116 - not VPW but Holy Spirit - posts #294, 310
3 - PFAL p. 83 - necessarily God-breathed - post #312
4 - Volume I - Preface - it alone - #317
5 - Volume II - Preface - it alone - #317
6 - Volume III - Preface - it alone - #317
7 - Volume IV - Preface - it alone - #317
8 - OMSW p. 124 - many, many times - #321
9 - JCNG - Introduction - appointed spokesman - #322
10 - RHST Introduction to Appendixes - the paragraph, and the section - #337
11 - RHST Introduction to Appendixes - quietly accept that which is untraceable - #337
12 - RHST Preface - edified, exhorted and comforted - #339
13 - 1983 Magazine Article - fact & Christianity in the Word - #354
14 - 1967 Film Class seg 66 - I Thessalonians 2:13 - #354
15 - 1967 Film Class seg 11 - I Thessalonians 2:13 - #355
16 - 1967 Film Class seg 13 - I Thessalonians 2:13 - #356
17 - SNS tape 214 - Light Began To Dawn - God revealed Himself to me - #362
18 - The Way–Living In Love – p. 178 - He said He would teach me - #363
19 - 1979 Advanced Class seg 5 - must know this book - #373
20 - The Joy of Serving - master PFAL (twice) - #377
21 - Last Emporia Teaching - take the collaterals and master them - #381
22 - OMSW pages 25,26 – take a microscope - #382
There are several more strong statements to write up, and oodles of the more well hidden ones. These will come someday.
There also are several immediate additions I could make, by taking a book quote already on the list here and finding it’s corresponding magazine article and then it’s corresponding SNS tape, or by taking film class entries and finding their corresponding pages in the PFAL book, etc., etc.
Such multiple entry additions wouldn’t count on the basis of textual substance, but they WOULD count for the purposes for which I have produced this list.
To review those purposes for this list:
Many times posters here have claimed that Dr did NOT make the claims I’ve been posting on for three years need to see that there are many things they missed in PFAL, especially written PFAL, not merely these 22 (and more) “thus saith” statements.
Many times posters have claimed that PFAL failed them, but I say we all failed to properly and fully absorb PFAL.
When we all come back to written PFAL we will find that every word is true, as per statement #1.
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oldiesman
Mike, here's one that's not true:
"Tithing brings wings to life"
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Raf
Confession of belief yields receipt of confession, right?
Yeah, right. Not true.
I believed I would get passed over for a promotion.
I confessed that belief to others.
I got the promotion.
Either VPW was wrong, or I got someone else's job!
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Mike
Raf,
Think of the principles such as believing and confession as stated in the KJV, just to get away from PFAL for a second.
I don’t think God put in the Bible principles like believing and confession so we can look back on incidents in our lives and make judgment calls. I don’t even think we CAN look back like that accurately. Those principles are for application.
There are many factors to consider in the law of believing as stated in PFAL, and if we go by the simple abbreviated forms then sure we’ll see contradictions. Confession is more than making the sounds come out. It’s a heart thing.
*******
oldiesman,
Yes I know that is your pet peeve.
It’s a bit off topic, the latest sub-topic, that is, but I know it bugs you.
Here’s what I can say about this off the top of my head:
1) Instead, though, of looking at the few points that don’t yet fit for you, why not celebrate the many more that DO FIT? I to had lots of problems with CSBP and tithing, but they gradually went away as I re-familiarized myself with the many more ideas that didn’t go against my grain. It also helped tremendously to have a place to tithe TO that I felt was worthy of it. Doing it generates more understanding than thinking about it.
2) IF it’s the case that written PFAL is God-breathed, THEN the material wealth you have already received is HUGE! Those books and magazine articles are worth FAR more than they could ever go for on e-Bay.
3) It’s also the case that the spiritual meanings and benefits that come by way of CSBP and tithing are far more important than the 5-senses, physical meanings an benefits.
4) Back to the physical, if you have more than food, clothing, and shelter you have more physical wealth than most human beings that ever lived. Expecting more, in some ways, might best be looked on with suspicion by oneself, avoiding making the same call for anyone else. Look at how the fist century believers gave all that wasn’t a need, not even counting it as their own. I’d say if you have more than you need you’re living well, maybe not by lush, greedy, modern standards, but by God’s standards for runners in this race to the finish.
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Raf
Mike,
In my heart, I knew I would not get the job.
The principles laid out in the Bible are wonderful. Turning them into a "law" was error.
I confessed with my mouth what I believed in my heart, and it did not come to pass. Instead of trying to figure out where the (nonexistent) law of believing failed (which it did), I'm busy praising and thanking God.
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Mike
Raf,
We're back to that word "law" again.
If we look at that word in a human legal sense or in a Mosaic Law sense, then I'd agree that error is right around the corner.
If we look at it like a scientific law or pattern, then it fits.
There are many factors involved in "operating" such a pattern or law, but only a few that are within or grasp of fine tuning.
I think the word "law" works well if you keep these things in mind.
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rascal
Congratulations on your promotion Raf!
Glad that the *myth* of believeing was proven a bust in this case :)
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Mike
rascal,
Haven't you ever heard of grace?
That's where we get more good than what we deserve.
I don't see a "bust" at all. maybe because I'm not looking hard to see it bust.
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rascal
Umm mike, I don`t think that you are looking at all ...
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Raf
Mike,
You're acting as if I've claimed that the "law" of believing is a human-type or Mosaic-type law. That's stupid. It's not what I ever said; it's not what I ever meant.
As a matter of scientific-type laws, THERE IS NO LAW OF BELIEVING. It flat out does not work.
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Mike
Raf,
I had to guess what you meant by "law" because every time I ask you outright you refuse to answer.
Do you even know what a scientific law is?
What WOULD qualify as a law in your book?"
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