What is that proverb? In the multitude of counselors there is safety? Something like that. Apparently in the case you state, the opposite seems true. But then again, there is a huge chasm between a counselor and a busy body who fancies themself a 'counselor'.
When the marriage goes bad, everyone needs someone to talk to. This is a really good time to choose the very wisest and faithful of all one's acquaintences to unburden yourself to. One who isn't afraid to point out where you may be wrong also. Just as it takes 2 to make a marriage, it usually does take 2 to spoil a marriage. One needs to seek out a faithful friend who lends an impartial ear. That doesn't mean that the marriage will make it, but at least it's being given an honest scrutiny.
If a person is keeping company with a gang of people who feel free to do one of these 3 way calling deals and then actually heeds their advice over their own good common sense, then it seems that person got what they were consciously or subconsciously looking for. Y'know, there is such a thing as just "hanging up". It's right up there with saying, "no", drawing a line, setting a boundary. But then again, if a person had grown and matured to the point where they actually could 'hang up', say no, draw a line, set a boundary, then they wouldn't be surrounded by a bunch of busybodies to begin with. Those people would have been rooted out and replaced with a true blue friend or two.
So what's my point? I dunno - we're just talkin' here.....
BTW - changed my name - like it - it's the same as this great big tree I've got growing in my front yard wreaking havoc with my lawn and driveway, but way too beautiful to cut down.
My only experience in someone fiddling in my marriage was in TWI. Leadership trying to put a wedge between us. My opinion on that--sick people who delighted in using their power to hurt others. Heck, they are still leaders in TWI today!
I can't imagine going to a gaggle of friends and telling them all about problems in my marriage. I figure if you open your mouth and tell people all your business, then you'll have people in your business.
In the multitude of counselors there is safety? Not in my experience. In my experience there is a lot more safety to be had by keeping your mouth shut and taking care of problems the best way you yourself can figure out.
Great thread CW and one that needs to be addressed. In my marriage I didn't have a 'fiddling' bunch of women, but twi was certainly in there. We were pretty good at keeping most of our private stuff private, for the most part, usually. Save for when we were trying to conceive Kelly and that's a whole other talk show for some other time.
I still believe that what we allow, we teach others is ok.
I'm in the mother in law position now and happily find it easy, most of the time, to stay out of their relationship. But that is because they don't let me in there much.
But your thread wasn't about inlaws and outlaws was it?
Having experienced the brutal reality of living in a family where a woman not only indulged in an adulterous afair ...but lured a father away from his family and four kiddoes.
They always thought quite a lot of themselves.... They would unthinkingly say the most rediculous things......They called me one day and she brightly announced that they were celebrating their 25th wedding anniversary....I was struck dumb...what was it she wanted me to say?? She acted like I should have acknowledged or remembered......
Congratulations??? Geeeez o Pete... I remember that day 25 years ago....when they finally manuvered my resisting mom into a divorce....they called her the DAY it was final to brightly announce their marriage....They were so cruel..I remember my Mom screaming into the phone ...to bury the axe just a little bit deeper next time and fleeing the room in tears....
Oh he ll yeah, I had a whole lot to celebrate there......the final nail in the coffin of what HAD been a happy family of 6.
They would call me wanting my children for a visit to fla....not me mind you or my spouse....just send my little ones please....one time when they were pressuring me over the phone and she had the NERVE to say....*come on Cathy, you KNOW that we are good parents....I about choked before I hung ...desperatly befor all of the sh it poured outta my mouth that I was threatening to vomit all over them....chiefly....oh yeah I know good parents abandon their young children to raise themselves every DAY....they run off to enjoy exotic adventures all over the world...ignoring their off spring for years at a time....
SCUSE me....but GOOD parents are usually capable of identifying their children if they meet on the streets ....something I seriously doubt they could have done when they only visited every 3 years....
My point? The people who indulge in adulterous affairs are incredibly self centered and absorbed in what is important to them and them alone.....the whole world revolves around what they need and what makes THEM happy....to he ll with how this impacts anybody else....To the day this woman died...she always had to mark her territory .... put everyone in their place....let everyone know that SHE was first and foremost.....
She always found some way to let us know what ill mannered little urchins that we were...sniffing with disaproval....
Neither one of these people has EVER acknowledged the pain their selfishness caused...Even today, my fathers solel regret was that he didn`t get to know his kiddoes a little better when they were growing up....not because of the impact of his loss on OUR lives....but because of what he personally missed...
So now he is on a mission to enjoy his grandkids in a way that he never managed with his own
It`s still all about him. That about sums up people who indulge in adulterous affairs.
I don`t give a damn that you are a dishonerable person with no moral character or standard...that is your problem..... it takes a special brand of selfishness though, to indulge in your pleasure KNOWING that you are betraying someone elses trust...and doing it with a person that is of such low moral standard as to be doing it to the person that he vowed to cherish and protect...........but damn you ... if there are kids involved it is inexcusable to destroy their world for your *good time*.
I have no respect for that under any circumstances.
Girlfriend you need to get the "Best of Janis Joplin" CD and rock out! Janis knows how to make the pain scream! Especially her rendition of "Piece of My Heart" (wish I knew how to do that linky stuff they all do in the nostalgia thread...if you haven't heard this song it's quite nice for such feelings as you've expressed here):
Piece Of My Heart
Oh, come on, come on, come on, come on!
Didn’t I make you feel like you were the only man —yeah!
Didn’t I give you nearly everything that a woman possibly can ?
Honey, you know I did!
And each time I tell myself that I, well I think I’ve had enough,
But I’m gonna show you, baby, that a woman can be tough.
I want you to come on, come on, come on, come on and take it,
Take it!
Take another little piece of my heart now, baby!
Oh, oh, break it!
Break another little bit of my heart now, darling, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, oh, have a!
Have another little piece of my heart now, baby,
You know you got it if it makes you feel good,
Oh, yes indeed.
You’re out on the streets looking good,
And baby deep down in your heart I guess you know that it ain’t right,
Never, never, never, never, never, never hear me when I cry at night,
Babe, I cry all the time!
And each time I tell myself that I, well I can’t stand the pain,
But when you hold me in your arms, I’ll sing it once again.
I’ll say come on, come on, come on, come on and take it!
Take it!
Take another little piece of my heart now, baby.
Oh, oh, break it!
Break another little bit of my heart now, darling, yeah,
Oh, oh, have a!
Have another little piece of my heart now, baby,
You know you got it, child, if it makes you feel good.
I need you to come on, come on, come on, come on and take it,
Take it!
Take another little piece of my heart now, baby!
oh, oh, break it!
Break another little bit of my heart, now darling, yeah, c’mon now.
oh, oh, have a
Have another little piece of my heart now, baby.
You know you got it —whoahhhhh!!
Take it!
Take it! Take another little piece of my heart now, baby,
Oh, oh, break it!
Break another little bit of my heart, now darling, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Oh, oh, have a
Have another little piece of my heart now, baby, hey,
You know you got it, child, if it makes you feel good.
Lots of very thoughtful and insightful stuff here on this thread.
Who were you Dawn Redwood????? (Yes...I'm probably a bit slow on the get-go. So sue me. LOL)
Bramble...yep...twi...learned it there and brought it with 'em. Too often you can take the boy/girl out of twi, but you can't take twi out of the boy/girl. Sigh.
Shell...well...no...I wasn't talking about in-laws, but buttinsky in-laws are a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Outlaws, on the other hand, well, they're easy to deal with...they mess with ya, cap 'em in the a$$. :D
Heck did you know the corps leaders fixed people up to get married. Talk about fiddling. I had a guy ask me to marry him and one of the king pins sent a more deserving woman to him.
Dot...yeah...and I fell for such crap hook, line and sinker...just trained to let people meddle...'cause it was the wOrD doncha know...and oh how I've paid. Sigh.
rascal, you hit the nail right on the head of what I was talking about in the first part of my post: cheaters who think they need to be 'understood' and want us to sympathize. Sheesh!
And you've also expressed far better than I could have exactly what is wrong with it all.
This is a spin-off of Dot's thread, anyway...so let it 'bleed' over all you want, honey. {{{{{rascal}}}}}
The way I see it is this - cheating can happen for a number of reasons - you gotta be in that person's shoes to understand why and the motivation. People can be hurt so badly that they feel justified in cheating and maybe they are...who knows?
BUT, it is the 'continued' willful cheating and still remaining in the marriage that sux big time. You need to fess up to the spouse asap. You need to be brave and if you've done the deed, stand up to your consequences and let the chips fall where they may. But to continue to live in a dishonest secretive realtionship (the marriage)....is cowardess, absolute cowardess.
Cheaters, for whom it is a way of life, are scared to be alone and their fear takes everyone else down with them. I wouldn't want to be married to a perpetual coward.
A one time cheater with a spotless track record? Well, that's a whole nother story, worthy of being scrutinized and a marriage possibly healed, but the perpetual willful cheater...a slimey coward.
Oh Mz. Vicky, who else ever starts their sentences with a great big "but"? LOL it's me, the evasive, WWO.
OH OH OOOOOOHHHHHHHH....... gee whiz CW you shudda known it was me just by the way I got off topic so quickly.
I "thought" your thread was 'why do people fiddle around in marriages' meaning the spouses. But (there I go again) now I see 'why do people 'fiddle' in marriages' - meaning "why do people stick their noses in and open up their big fat yappers?"
I had actually posted my first response just to what you had written in your first post and my second response was based on what I thought your thread title was. I see it belongs in the 'other' thread.
And what about those folks who think they have a right to 'counsel' people concerning their marriages/relationships? I know of at least 5 relationships that each were started and stopped because of nosey know-it-alls.
Ive had to deal with a couple of these this year myself. In one , one of my best friends got devastated after his wife fell in with one of these man hater groups. She had been unhappy in the marriage but it didnt seem unworkable at least from my vantage point. (I had known them both closely for many years and was the Best Man at their wedding). After a year or so of marriage struggles where they couldnt get on quite the same page she started going to a "support group" of some sort or another. It was in shortorder that grossly overblown imagined problems over rode dealing with any real problems, She got them through her "support' network. From a short distance it was like watching a mental illness spiral out of control.
They had been two very stable and very intelligent people, no drugs , alcohol, abuse, affairs, or anything like that--just some communication difficulties....within a six months of her joining this group, he had a restraining order barring him from his own home, was separated and on the road to a heartbreaking and incredibly nasty and vicious divorce. Did I mention they have a three year old daughter?
She has now moved halfway across the country twice with their young daughter, is deeply unsettled and imo in need of serious psychological evaluation and treatment , and he is in very deep despair...What once was controllable was rocketed into oblivion once the nitwits were allowed in...Its a real shame--they were two (well three counting the baby) wonderful people and now they are deeply and probably forever wounded.
she sought that consel because she wanted "support' , to change the situatin she was in, how she was feeling and how to make change.
she got it.
I have gone to support groups and foundI was the only one who didnt feel the way the group was heading in topics. I quit rather than get angry or deny how I felt I wanted to be supported in the situation.
Sounds like she wanted to leave, he didnt realize the enormous problems in the marriage.
it happens when people stop talking then how can he be shocked or blame a group?
isolation and control are problems in a bad marriage.
how can anyone be shocked? well because people do not communicate then the crap hits the fan when the other person finds the strength in whatever way possible to do what they always wanted to do.
I wouldnt blame a group tho.
it sounds like it would have been a matter of time before she left anyways.
we tend to seek answers we want to hear in life do we not?
if the ideas they presented was not in her heart to do then she would have left the group and tried in her marriage.. but she found the support she was looking for.
and made the changes she w3anted with the support of her friends.
I would think any marriage worth having would consider one another beofre any one eles opinion on what they have or do not have.
The group although advertised as a support group really was a husband bashing group , that deepened her insecurities and coerced her look for yet more problems that werent really there instead of searching for any solutions.... It was a time of confusion for her--(there are amultitude of other personal issues that I wont go into) she was vulnerable and pliable and listened to exactly the wrong source at a time of need.
Maybe they wouldnt have made it--Its amoot point now and there is no way to tell. But if there was ever a couple I thought would make a strong marriage it was those two. I knew them both closely for over 20 years and wouldnt have been involved in their marriage if I didnt think it was absolutely right for both of them.
My point was how seriously and quickly the problems escalated once the bogus neanderthals who pawned themselves off as counselors and friends entered the picture. What had been normal marital difficulties became catastrophic
Personally I'd leave any counselling to either a very good trained professional or at the very least to a few trusted friends who have known the couple for a very long time and proven their concern is real, instead of a group of strangers who want to run the show without knowing any of the inner dynamics of the marriage or implications of what they say and pawn themselves off as a "support group"
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CoolWaters
Oh...and just in case anybody thinks I'm talking about them...
If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.
I'm only talking about folks I know personally in 3D.
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Dawn Redwood
What is that proverb? In the multitude of counselors there is safety? Something like that. Apparently in the case you state, the opposite seems true. But then again, there is a huge chasm between a counselor and a busy body who fancies themself a 'counselor'.
When the marriage goes bad, everyone needs someone to talk to. This is a really good time to choose the very wisest and faithful of all one's acquaintences to unburden yourself to. One who isn't afraid to point out where you may be wrong also. Just as it takes 2 to make a marriage, it usually does take 2 to spoil a marriage. One needs to seek out a faithful friend who lends an impartial ear. That doesn't mean that the marriage will make it, but at least it's being given an honest scrutiny.
If a person is keeping company with a gang of people who feel free to do one of these 3 way calling deals and then actually heeds their advice over their own good common sense, then it seems that person got what they were consciously or subconsciously looking for. Y'know, there is such a thing as just "hanging up". It's right up there with saying, "no", drawing a line, setting a boundary. But then again, if a person had grown and matured to the point where they actually could 'hang up', say no, draw a line, set a boundary, then they wouldn't be surrounded by a bunch of busybodies to begin with. Those people would have been rooted out and replaced with a true blue friend or two.
So what's my point? I dunno - we're just talkin' here.....
BTW - changed my name - like it - it's the same as this great big tree I've got growing in my front yard wreaking havoc with my lawn and driveway, but way too beautiful to cut down.
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Bramble
My only experience in someone fiddling in my marriage was in TWI. Leadership trying to put a wedge between us. My opinion on that--sick people who delighted in using their power to hurt others. Heck, they are still leaders in TWI today!
I can't imagine going to a gaggle of friends and telling them all about problems in my marriage. I figure if you open your mouth and tell people all your business, then you'll have people in your business.
In the multitude of counselors there is safety? Not in my experience. In my experience there is a lot more safety to be had by keeping your mouth shut and taking care of problems the best way you yourself can figure out.
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Shellon
Great thread CW and one that needs to be addressed. In my marriage I didn't have a 'fiddling' bunch of women, but twi was certainly in there. We were pretty good at keeping most of our private stuff private, for the most part, usually. Save for when we were trying to conceive Kelly and that's a whole other talk show for some other time.
I still believe that what we allow, we teach others is ok.
I'm in the mother in law position now and happily find it easy, most of the time, to stay out of their relationship. But that is because they don't let me in there much.
But your thread wasn't about inlaws and outlaws was it?
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rascal
Having experienced the brutal reality of living in a family where a woman not only indulged in an adulterous afair ...but lured a father away from his family and four kiddoes.
They always thought quite a lot of themselves.... They would unthinkingly say the most rediculous things......They called me one day and she brightly announced that they were celebrating their 25th wedding anniversary....I was struck dumb...what was it she wanted me to say?? She acted like I should have acknowledged or remembered......
Congratulations??? Geeeez o Pete... I remember that day 25 years ago....when they finally manuvered my resisting mom into a divorce....they called her the DAY it was final to brightly announce their marriage....They were so cruel..I remember my Mom screaming into the phone ...to bury the axe just a little bit deeper next time and fleeing the room in tears....
Oh he ll yeah, I had a whole lot to celebrate there......the final nail in the coffin of what HAD been a happy family of 6.
They would call me wanting my children for a visit to fla....not me mind you or my spouse....just send my little ones please....one time when they were pressuring me over the phone and she had the NERVE to say....*come on Cathy, you KNOW that we are good parents....I about choked before I hung ...desperatly befor all of the sh it poured outta my mouth that I was threatening to vomit all over them....chiefly....oh yeah I know good parents abandon their young children to raise themselves every DAY....they run off to enjoy exotic adventures all over the world...ignoring their off spring for years at a time....
SCUSE me....but GOOD parents are usually capable of identifying their children if they meet on the streets ....something I seriously doubt they could have done when they only visited every 3 years....
My point? The people who indulge in adulterous affairs are incredibly self centered and absorbed in what is important to them and them alone.....the whole world revolves around what they need and what makes THEM happy....to he ll with how this impacts anybody else....To the day this woman died...she always had to mark her territory .... put everyone in their place....let everyone know that SHE was first and foremost.....
She always found some way to let us know what ill mannered little urchins that we were...sniffing with disaproval....
Neither one of these people has EVER acknowledged the pain their selfishness caused...Even today, my fathers solel regret was that he didn`t get to know his kiddoes a little better when they were growing up....not because of the impact of his loss on OUR lives....but because of what he personally missed...
So now he is on a mission to enjoy his grandkids in a way that he never managed with his own
It`s still all about him. That about sums up people who indulge in adulterous affairs.
I don`t give a damn that you are a dishonerable person with no moral character or standard...that is your problem..... it takes a special brand of selfishness though, to indulge in your pleasure KNOWING that you are betraying someone elses trust...and doing it with a person that is of such low moral standard as to be doing it to the person that he vowed to cherish and protect...........but damn you ... if there are kids involved it is inexcusable to destroy their world for your *good time*.
I have no respect for that under any circumstances.
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CoolWaters
{{{{{rascal}}}}}
Girlfriend you need to get the "Best of Janis Joplin" CD and rock out! Janis knows how to make the pain scream! Especially her rendition of "Piece of My Heart" (wish I knew how to do that linky stuff they all do in the nostalgia thread...if you haven't heard this song it's quite nice for such feelings as you've expressed here):
Piece Of My Heart
Oh, come on, come on, come on, come on!
Didn’t I make you feel like you were the only man —yeah!
Didn’t I give you nearly everything that a woman possibly can ?
Honey, you know I did!
And each time I tell myself that I, well I think I’ve had enough,
But I’m gonna show you, baby, that a woman can be tough.
I want you to come on, come on, come on, come on and take it,
Take it!
Take another little piece of my heart now, baby!
Oh, oh, break it!
Break another little bit of my heart now, darling, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, oh, have a!
Have another little piece of my heart now, baby,
You know you got it if it makes you feel good,
Oh, yes indeed.
You’re out on the streets looking good,
And baby deep down in your heart I guess you know that it ain’t right,
Never, never, never, never, never, never hear me when I cry at night,
Babe, I cry all the time!
And each time I tell myself that I, well I can’t stand the pain,
But when you hold me in your arms, I’ll sing it once again.
I’ll say come on, come on, come on, come on and take it!
Take it!
Take another little piece of my heart now, baby.
Oh, oh, break it!
Break another little bit of my heart now, darling, yeah,
Oh, oh, have a!
Have another little piece of my heart now, baby,
You know you got it, child, if it makes you feel good.
I need you to come on, come on, come on, come on and take it,
Take it!
Take another little piece of my heart now, baby!
oh, oh, break it!
Break another little bit of my heart, now darling, yeah, c’mon now.
oh, oh, have a
Have another little piece of my heart now, baby.
You know you got it —whoahhhhh!!
Take it!
Take it! Take another little piece of my heart now, baby,
Oh, oh, break it!
Break another little bit of my heart, now darling, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Oh, oh, have a
Have another little piece of my heart now, baby, hey,
You know you got it, child, if it makes you feel good.
Lots of very thoughtful and insightful stuff here on this thread.
Who were you Dawn Redwood????? (Yes...I'm probably a bit slow on the get-go. So sue me. LOL)
Bramble...yep...twi...learned it there and brought it with 'em. Too often you can take the boy/girl out of twi, but you can't take twi out of the boy/girl. Sigh.
Shell...well...no...I wasn't talking about in-laws, but buttinsky in-laws are a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Outlaws, on the other hand, well, they're easy to deal with...they mess with ya, cap 'em in the a$$. :D
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Dot Matrix
Why do people fiddle in marraiges?
Heck did you know the corps leaders fixed people up to get married. Talk about fiddling. I had a guy ask me to marry him and one of the king pins sent a more deserving woman to him.
Oh well, his loss.
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rascal
Thanks cw, I love that song....glad you brought it back to memory ..and I didn`t know who sang it...am glad to know that as well.
Maybe I misunderstood the type of meddeling that you were speaking of, and dashed off on a tangeant...if I did, I am sorry.
I guess that the other thread has dug up a suprising amount of anger concerning selfish people ....n I let it bleed onto this one as well.
In re reading I think that this kind of meddeling wasn`t what you were talking about.
Sorry.
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CoolWaters
Dot...yeah...and I fell for such crap hook, line and sinker...just trained to let people meddle...'cause it was the wOrD doncha know...and oh how I've paid. Sigh.
rascal, you hit the nail right on the head of what I was talking about in the first part of my post: cheaters who think they need to be 'understood' and want us to sympathize. Sheesh!
And you've also expressed far better than I could have exactly what is wrong with it all.
This is a spin-off of Dot's thread, anyway...so let it 'bleed' over all you want, honey. {{{{{rascal}}}}}
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Dawn Redwood
The way I see it is this - cheating can happen for a number of reasons - you gotta be in that person's shoes to understand why and the motivation. People can be hurt so badly that they feel justified in cheating and maybe they are...who knows?
BUT, it is the 'continued' willful cheating and still remaining in the marriage that sux big time. You need to fess up to the spouse asap. You need to be brave and if you've done the deed, stand up to your consequences and let the chips fall where they may. But to continue to live in a dishonest secretive realtionship (the marriage)....is cowardess, absolute cowardess.
Cheaters, for whom it is a way of life, are scared to be alone and their fear takes everyone else down with them. I wouldn't want to be married to a perpetual coward.
A one time cheater with a spotless track record? Well, that's a whole nother story, worthy of being scrutinized and a marriage possibly healed, but the perpetual willful cheater...a slimey coward.
Oh Mz. Vicky, who else ever starts their sentences with a great big "but"? LOL it's me, the evasive, WWO.
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rascal
Cowardice...now THAT is a word that I missed in my resounding condemnation of my cheaters....lol
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Tom Strange
Why do people fiddle in marriages/relationships?
Because they watch too much Dr Phil, Maury, Montel, Oprah, etc...
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Dawn Redwood
OH OH OOOOOOHHHHHHHH....... gee whiz CW you shudda known it was me just by the way I got off topic so quickly.
I "thought" your thread was 'why do people fiddle around in marriages' meaning the spouses. But (there I go again) now I see 'why do people 'fiddle' in marriages' - meaning "why do people stick their noses in and open up their big fat yappers?"
I had actually posted my first response just to what you had written in your first post and my second response was based on what I thought your thread title was. I see it belongs in the 'other' thread.
I love these epiphanies.
Why do people fiddle in marriages?
Ditto to what Tom said.
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Bluzeman
OK, Rascal and CoolWaters. Here ya go!
PIECE OF MY HEART
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mstar1
Ive had to deal with a couple of these this year myself. In one , one of my best friends got devastated after his wife fell in with one of these man hater groups. She had been unhappy in the marriage but it didnt seem unworkable at least from my vantage point. (I had known them both closely for many years and was the Best Man at their wedding). After a year or so of marriage struggles where they couldnt get on quite the same page she started going to a "support group" of some sort or another. It was in shortorder that grossly overblown imagined problems over rode dealing with any real problems, She got them through her "support' network. From a short distance it was like watching a mental illness spiral out of control.
They had been two very stable and very intelligent people, no drugs , alcohol, abuse, affairs, or anything like that--just some communication difficulties....within a six months of her joining this group, he had a restraining order barring him from his own home, was separated and on the road to a heartbreaking and incredibly nasty and vicious divorce. Did I mention they have a three year old daughter?
She has now moved halfway across the country twice with their young daughter, is deeply unsettled and imo in need of serious psychological evaluation and treatment , and he is in very deep despair...What once was controllable was rocketed into oblivion once the nitwits were allowed in...Its a real shame--they were two (well three counting the baby) wonderful people and now they are deeply and probably forever wounded.
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pond
A person joins a support group for a reason.
she sought that consel because she wanted "support' , to change the situatin she was in, how she was feeling and how to make change.
she got it.
I have gone to support groups and foundI was the only one who didnt feel the way the group was heading in topics. I quit rather than get angry or deny how I felt I wanted to be supported in the situation.
Sounds like she wanted to leave, he didnt realize the enormous problems in the marriage.
it happens when people stop talking then how can he be shocked or blame a group?
isolation and control are problems in a bad marriage.
how can anyone be shocked? well because people do not communicate then the crap hits the fan when the other person finds the strength in whatever way possible to do what they always wanted to do.
I wouldnt blame a group tho.
it sounds like it would have been a matter of time before she left anyways.
we tend to seek answers we want to hear in life do we not?
if the ideas they presented was not in her heart to do then she would have left the group and tried in her marriage.. but she found the support she was looking for.
and made the changes she w3anted with the support of her friends.
I would think any marriage worth having would consider one another beofre any one eles opinion on what they have or do not have.
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mstar1
Whatever you say Pond
The group although advertised as a support group really was a husband bashing group , that deepened her insecurities and coerced her look for yet more problems that werent really there instead of searching for any solutions.... It was a time of confusion for her--(there are amultitude of other personal issues that I wont go into) she was vulnerable and pliable and listened to exactly the wrong source at a time of need.
Maybe they wouldnt have made it--Its amoot point now and there is no way to tell. But if there was ever a couple I thought would make a strong marriage it was those two. I knew them both closely for over 20 years and wouldnt have been involved in their marriage if I didnt think it was absolutely right for both of them.
My point was how seriously and quickly the problems escalated once the bogus neanderthals who pawned themselves off as counselors and friends entered the picture. What had been normal marital difficulties became catastrophic
Personally I'd leave any counselling to either a very good trained professional or at the very least to a few trusted friends who have known the couple for a very long time and proven their concern is real, instead of a group of strangers who want to run the show without knowing any of the inner dynamics of the marriage or implications of what they say and pawn themselves off as a "support group"
But thats just me
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excathedra
i understand what you're saying mstar and i've seen it happen. how very sad. they're in my heart prayers
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mstar1
Thanks ex--they are good people
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