I went back over the PTs and see where you said "Dont bother me at all" -- when you really meant to say "That doesn't bother me at all" in regards to the previous post. Is that it?
My apologies for misreading it. I though you meant "Don't bother me at all" as it was written and with the grammar that you actually used . When that is not what you really meant.
May I point out that the pronoun "that" was ommited and you used "don't" instead of doesn't.
Do you see it ? I should have pieced it all together and seen beyond the improper grammar.
Guess we both need an English lesson - eh? My apologies for calling you are a liar in reagrds to that.
If this thread is deleted, then we shall all be deprived of some important lessons from all of this.
It's not about who's right or wrong, or whose view is more accurate or better or superior.
From where I'm sitting, it's (somewhat ) about how misunderstandings can pile upon misunderstandings, of how we "read" others and how others "read" us. But we're not really "hearing" each other.
What's missing from a written page full of words - is the living, animated inflection beneath the delivery of our utterances.
Of "how" a person is saying something - or intending such - as opposed to how something reaches us. (and ironically, even here I may not be conveying this all too well). And when attempts at clarification are made from all sides - we tend to tie ourselves into tighter word knots.
Isn't it ironic that we argue over the meaning of things people wrote 2,000 years ago - when we experience such great difficulty toward understanding one another even now?
To sign off with a quote from "The Lost Skeleton of Cadabra" (another movie worthy a many laughs) -
aaawww I don't know Goey, we could just let it be and just drop it like it didn't happen. I love forgiveness, it's such a clearing house in the mind. Besides like Danny said there is a lot to learn from our communications. So perhaps it could help others who would have the same difficulties.
Like Goey...I stand on my own two feet, and I still stand on what I have said about Todd and Clay. The quick to anger thing (among others)sets off my alarm bells.
I saw and heard similar stuff when I went to a ' Church of the Golden Light Rod' meeting. It sounded nice and 'spiritual' to begin with but ended with questions asked of the audience (I still have the pamphlet somewhere, I use it in teaching an advance class).
Such questions as...
Does mankind really need a 'savior' ?
How much better off would we have been if Jesus had never been crucified ?
Is there reallllyyyy such a thing as 'sin' ?
etc.. maybe you get the 'gist' of what they were pushing.
It just makes me VERY wary of what is propounded out there in the name of 'greater understanding'.
COGLR IS A SPIRITUALIST CHURCH ....I might google and see if they have a website.
Another thing I just remembered was that they pushed the message about a time coming when all the 'evil religious' people will be 'taken away' from this world thereby enabling the world to enter a 'new' dawning of 'awareness'. How wild is that ??
This is why it is important to 'beware of false prophets, seducing spirits' etc...
Another thing I just remembered was that they pushed the message about a time coming when all the 'evil religious' people will be 'taken away' from this world thereby enabling the world to enter a 'new' dawning of 'awareness'. How wild is that ??
This is why it is important to 'beware of false prophets, seducing spirits' etc...
Let me post a conversation that took place in 1784 between Charles Simeon and John Wesley. Simeon was a 'Calvinist' while Wesley was an 'Arminian' -- Simeon begins the dialog and asks the questions. Weslsy give the replies.
Sir, I understand that you are called an Arminian; and I have been sometimes called a Calvinist; and therefore I suppose we are to draw daggers. But before I consent to begin the combat, with your permission I will ask you a few questions....
Pray, Sir, do you feel yourself a depraved creature, so depraved that you would never have thought of turning to God, if God had not first put it into your heart?
Yes, says the veteran, I do indeed.
And do you utterly despair of recommending yourself to God by anything you can do; and look for salvation solely through the blood and righteousness of Christ?
Yes, solely through Christ.
But, Sir, supposing you were at first saved by Christ, are you not somehow or other to save yourself afterwards by your own works?
No, I must be saved by Christ from first to last.
Allowing, then, that you were first turned by the grace of God, are you not in some way or other to keep yourself by your own power?
No.
What, then, are you to be upheld every hour and every moment by God, as much as an infant in its mother's arms?
Yes, altogether.
And is all your hope in the grace and mercy of God to preserve you unto His heavenly kingdom?
Yes, I have no hope but in Him.
Then, Sir, with your leave I will put up my dagger again; for this is all my Calvinism; this is my election, my justification by faith, my final perseverance: it is in substance all that I hold and as I hold it; and therefore, if you please, instead of searching out terms and phrases to be a ground of contention between us, we will cordially unite in those things wherein we agree.
I'll try to clarify on what I mentioned earlier....
There is more to the coming and ressurection then I previously believed. I put it out for consideration that it can happen now while we are living here and now. And I've said this in more then one thread. That does not negate the coming after physical death in anyway but makes it bigger. John himself said "even so Lord come".
Those people in Acts had something that I had not seen in my own life. And I knew I didn't have what they had. Therefore I had to undo somethings I had previously been taught, things that were obviously not right to me. Then I could look and search for other possibilities. And I found some or it found me, but there was ACTion that I had never experienced before. And not as I expected, but even more.
And it's not that I've learned more, but it's more that I've learned how to learn. I've learned there is a lot more then I previously believed. I learned that there is a lot more that I don't know.
All over the epistles it talks about death to life. It is talking about now I believe mostly. What Jesus did was real. What Christ did in him was real. Why, How and What makes this Comforter, this Holy Spirit so much more powerful and accessable to men and women.
Jesus the Christ had to die to bring forth the greater baptism, the greater God in the Heart, the greater Christ in the mind.
Paul was many years with the disciples to work out his salvation. But he started preaching Christ right off the bat. And he didn't know everything from the start or even unto the end of his life in the flesh.
That's about as general as I want to put it at this time. And as much as I can say and communicate on this board. Our God is not limited to any one religion or no religion. He is real and alive and within. And in the air. It is where His home is in every person that is on the planet or been on the planet or is going to be on the planet.
Not one soul will miss out on eternal life.....and I'm crying as I say this because it's the truth. God will not back down off of His Word. We are to be the Word One in Him. One in Christ. And it happens daily with many and all are not at the same place of understanding.
This is why Love is the GREATEST as it says in Corinthians. It is the most important thing.It is God. God is Love and Love is God and it's in each and every one of us and will not leave us ever! It is our very being and each person will have their eyes open to this in God's time and in your life. Physical death has been defeated. There is hell to face when the old carnal man burns and the new man emerges to be seen and realized for the first time. It is personal and it is real and Love is the ONLY thing that will see you through it and you will overcome.
"The quick to anger thing (among others)sets off my alarm bells."
Allan, what is it that scares you about this? We all have moments when we are quick to anger, even you. That isn't intended as a slam - but I remember when a poster came to the boards who also "set my alarm off" (no, I'm not referring to you). Eventually, I got to know the poster a little better, via emails, and found out he wasn't a monster afterall. I still disagree with him doctrinally, but I am no longer "alarmed" by him.
"Such questions as...
Does mankind really need a 'savior' ?
How much better off would we have been if Jesus had never been crucified ?
Is there reallllyyyy such a thing as 'sin' ?
etc.. maybe you get the 'gist' of what they were pushing."
I don't. I think asking questions is a good thing, even when it means questioning our own faith. If our faith is strong, we can handle such questions just fine. Many people here at GSC have asked similar questions after leaving TWI. Some remained Christians others did not, but we are all free to make our own choices.
Then, Sir, with your leave I will put up my dagger again; for this is all my Calvinism; this is my election, my justification by faith, my final perseverance: it is in substance all that I hold and as I hold it; and therefore, if you please, instead of searching out terms and phrases to be a ground of contention between us, we will cordially unite in those things wherein we agree.
Yeah fair enough Clay, but all this "I had to begin to unlearn so I could really learn" etc.. smacks of Mike with his pfal waffle...so sorry bud, to me, differn't crap...same agenda.
"Not one soul will miss out on eternal life"- Clay. Mate, as long as I dont get a room next to Hitler, or Freddy Kruger. If you happen to end up rooming with them then I would put forward the comment that you're not ..ahhhemmm. In Heaven.
If you believe that EVERYONE receives eternal life, then I would have to say that you ARE in total contradiction of what just about every prophet in the old & new testament said regarding salvation and damnation.
I apologise if I have read wrongly into your comment, but if you meant what you said, then I believe you are a spiritualist wearing a Jesus cloke.
All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
35
32
112
39
Popular Days
May 13
39
May 2
39
May 3
30
May 7
28
Top Posters In This Topic
Goey 35 posts
sirguessalot 32 posts
CM 112 posts
allan w. 39 posts
Popular Days
May 13 2006
39 posts
May 2 2006
39 posts
May 3 2006
30 posts
May 7 2006
28 posts
Posted Images
CM
Hi Danny,
Thanks
I've asked the moderaters to delete this whole thread.
Someone not understanding could actually hurt them I think.
And that is not what i want at all.
Love back to You
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Goey
Ok Clay,
I went back over the PTs and see where you said "Dont bother me at all" -- when you really meant to say "That doesn't bother me at all" in regards to the previous post. Is that it?
My apologies for misreading it. I though you meant "Don't bother me at all" as it was written and with the grammar that you actually used . When that is not what you really meant.
May I point out that the pronoun "that" was ommited and you used "don't" instead of doesn't.
Do you see it ? I should have pieced it all together and seen beyond the improper grammar.
Guess we both need an English lesson - eh? My apologies for calling you are a liar in reagrds to that.
Edited by GoeyLink to comment
Share on other sites
CM
Apology accepted.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheInvisibleDan
Hi Roy and CM and Goey,
If this thread is deleted, then we shall all be deprived of some important lessons from all of this.
It's not about who's right or wrong, or whose view is more accurate or better or superior.
From where I'm sitting, it's (somewhat ) about how misunderstandings can pile upon misunderstandings, of how we "read" others and how others "read" us. But we're not really "hearing" each other.
What's missing from a written page full of words - is the living, animated inflection beneath the delivery of our utterances.
Of "how" a person is saying something - or intending such - as opposed to how something reaches us. (and ironically, even here I may not be conveying this all too well). And when attempts at clarification are made from all sides - we tend to tie ourselves into tighter word knots.
Isn't it ironic that we argue over the meaning of things people wrote 2,000 years ago - when we experience such great difficulty toward understanding one another even now?
To sign off with a quote from "The Lost Skeleton of Cadabra" (another movie worthy a many laughs) -
"I sleep now"
Danny
Edited by TheInvisibleDanLink to comment
Share on other sites
Goey
Clay,
Truce
No need to delete the entire thread, there is some good stuff in here.
I will try to delete any offending posts that I have made. Check your PT
-------------------------------------------------------
Well becuse of the edit time limit, I could not go back and get but two of my posts.
Edited by GoeyLink to comment
Share on other sites
CM
aaawww I don't know Goey, we could just let it be and just drop it like it didn't happen. I love forgiveness, it's such a clearing house in the mind. Besides like Danny said there is a lot to learn from our communications. So perhaps it could help others who would have the same difficulties.
Peace, Clay
i'll edit what i can
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CM
Well that was more work then posting! lol!
If you use the quick edit you can go back farther.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
allan w.
Like Goey...I stand on my own two feet, and I still stand on what I have said about Todd and Clay. The quick to anger thing (among others)sets off my alarm bells.
I saw and heard similar stuff when I went to a ' Church of the Golden Light Rod' meeting. It sounded nice and 'spiritual' to begin with but ended with questions asked of the audience (I still have the pamphlet somewhere, I use it in teaching an advance class).
Such questions as...
Does mankind really need a 'savior' ?
How much better off would we have been if Jesus had never been crucified ?
Is there reallllyyyy such a thing as 'sin' ?
etc.. maybe you get the 'gist' of what they were pushing.
It just makes me VERY wary of what is propounded out there in the name of 'greater understanding'.
COGLR IS A SPIRITUALIST CHURCH ....I might google and see if they have a website.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CM
yeah, allan jesus got angered too, and what you think is quick, isn't
Goey, did what i could...rock on...
Edited by CMLink to comment
Share on other sites
allan w.
Another thing I just remembered was that they pushed the message about a time coming when all the 'evil religious' people will be 'taken away' from this world thereby enabling the world to enter a 'new' dawning of 'awareness'. How wild is that ??
This is why it is important to 'beware of false prophets, seducing spirits' etc...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CM
you are way off topic allan
you are saying this
so it must be you promoting it
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Goey
Let me post a conversation that took place in 1784 between Charles Simeon and John Wesley. Simeon was a 'Calvinist' while Wesley was an 'Arminian' -- Simeon begins the dialog and asks the questions. Weslsy give the replies.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CM
I'll try to clarify on what I mentioned earlier....
There is more to the coming and ressurection then I previously believed. I put it out for consideration that it can happen now while we are living here and now. And I've said this in more then one thread. That does not negate the coming after physical death in anyway but makes it bigger. John himself said "even so Lord come".
Those people in Acts had something that I had not seen in my own life. And I knew I didn't have what they had. Therefore I had to undo somethings I had previously been taught, things that were obviously not right to me. Then I could look and search for other possibilities. And I found some or it found me, but there was ACTion that I had never experienced before. And not as I expected, but even more.
And it's not that I've learned more, but it's more that I've learned how to learn. I've learned there is a lot more then I previously believed. I learned that there is a lot more that I don't know.
All over the epistles it talks about death to life. It is talking about now I believe mostly. What Jesus did was real. What Christ did in him was real. Why, How and What makes this Comforter, this Holy Spirit so much more powerful and accessable to men and women.
Jesus the Christ had to die to bring forth the greater baptism, the greater God in the Heart, the greater Christ in the mind.
Paul was many years with the disciples to work out his salvation. But he started preaching Christ right off the bat. And he didn't know everything from the start or even unto the end of his life in the flesh.
That's about as general as I want to put it at this time. And as much as I can say and communicate on this board. Our God is not limited to any one religion or no religion. He is real and alive and within. And in the air. It is where His home is in every person that is on the planet or been on the planet or is going to be on the planet.
Not one soul will miss out on eternal life.....and I'm crying as I say this because it's the truth. God will not back down off of His Word. We are to be the Word One in Him. One in Christ. And it happens daily with many and all are not at the same place of understanding.
This is why Love is the GREATEST as it says in Corinthians. It is the most important thing.It is God. God is Love and Love is God and it's in each and every one of us and will not leave us ever! It is our very being and each person will have their eyes open to this in God's time and in your life. Physical death has been defeated. There is hell to face when the old carnal man burns and the new man emerges to be seen and realized for the first time. It is personal and it is real and Love is the ONLY thing that will see you through it and you will overcome.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Abigail
"The quick to anger thing (among others)sets off my alarm bells."
Allan, what is it that scares you about this? We all have moments when we are quick to anger, even you. That isn't intended as a slam - but I remember when a poster came to the boards who also "set my alarm off" (no, I'm not referring to you). Eventually, I got to know the poster a little better, via emails, and found out he wasn't a monster afterall. I still disagree with him doctrinally, but I am no longer "alarmed" by him.
"Such questions as...
Does mankind really need a 'savior' ?
How much better off would we have been if Jesus had never been crucified ?
Is there reallllyyyy such a thing as 'sin' ?
etc.. maybe you get the 'gist' of what they were pushing."
I don't. I think asking questions is a good thing, even when it means questioning our own faith. If our faith is strong, we can handle such questions just fine. Many people here at GSC have asked similar questions after leaving TWI. Some remained Christians others did not, but we are all free to make our own choices.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RumRunner
Flawless
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CM
You know I wonder......
How many people would have stayed in pfal and twi if pfal started with these verses....
26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
It's just as true as John 10:10.
I count on the knowledge that I know we have of the scriptures here at Greasespot.
Not the interpretations according to twi, but what is written.
Because understanding can grow and there is life in those Words.
Perhaps that's why I leave somethings out because whatever was good is still there.
And there is life in the Words of many who speak here.....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
allan w.
Yeah fair enough Clay, but all this "I had to begin to unlearn so I could really learn" etc.. smacks of Mike with his pfal waffle...so sorry bud, to me, differn't crap...same agenda.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
allan w.
"Not one soul will miss out on eternal life"- Clay. Mate, as long as I dont get a room next to Hitler, or Freddy Kruger. If you happen to end up rooming with them then I would put forward the comment that you're not ..ahhhemmm. In Heaven.
If you believe that EVERYONE receives eternal life, then I would have to say that you ARE in total contradiction of what just about every prophet in the old & new testament said regarding salvation and damnation.
I apologise if I have read wrongly into your comment, but if you meant what you said, then I believe you are a spiritualist wearing a Jesus cloke.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
...not that there's anything wrong with that...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CM
All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath
Link to comment
Share on other sites
allan w.
"as he that warns of the glorified man Jesus the Christ, so is he that must warn of Satan the nemesis of Jesus Christ.
Whom shall ye fear...He who has power to cast body and soul into hell.
For one will quote scriptures, ye, even out of context, yet another will be an honest workman of the Word.
You didn't finish the scripture off Clay...the one event ?? THEY BOTH DIE !!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CM
if you want me to read the scriptures to you allan,
do you also want me to show you what they say?
you seem to be telling me what they say,
i know what they say and those that can read know too
quit being such a baby
i'm more honest then you will probably ever see
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CM
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
??????
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.