Them which are asleep...

[dmiller]

O.k. Todd...so looking at the 'New Age' website...you are now in training to become an 'anamcara' (spiritual master) You have been 'formally accepted' to be an apprentice.

Do cogs actually fall into place?

No -- but way corps do. ;)

[CM]

dmiller,

neither Me or Todd have been Way Corps Grads.

and allan is wrong plain and simple

[allan w.]

Actually, I'm prepared to wait and see how this all pans out !! David...be sure to send me pics of you beating 'tom-tom' drums in your undies in the out-back chanting 'Jewish mystic mantras' !

Actually, I'm prepared to wait and see how this all pans out !! David...be sure to send me pics of you beating 'tom-tom' drums in your undies in the out-back chanting 'Jewish mystic mantras' !

David..If YOU say it brought you closer to GOD, I might buy into it...might !

[dmiller]

Allan --- I'm a FiddlePicker, not a *tom-tom* beater. :)

[dmiller]

And ~~~~~ I don't know any

Jewish mystic mantras'

[dmiller]

DANG!!! Them there *pagans* have a dove gif just like CES/STFI!!

Who'd a thunk it? ;)

Edited May 9, 2006 by dmiller

[dmiller]

Edited May 9, 2006 by dmiller

[allan w.]

yes, I noticed the similarities but wasn't sure who copied it off who ? Or maybe it's one of the 'clickable artwork' downloadable from the net. BTW, twi also had dove pictures...doesn't change the pickles on the inside though does it !!

[Abigail]

well I don't know any mantra's but I have studied Jewish Mysticism some. I guess that makes me one of those damned pagans too. I've also had many converstations with Todd and Clay - yet I haven't been recruited.

Gee, guys, I guess I'm not worthy to join your club ;) :blink:

So Allan, if you and someone who holds beliefs similar to yours post in agreement on a thread, does that mean you are recruiting?

[allan w.]

Not really, unless they want to fly to Australia every Sunday ( Where the bloody hell are you ) !!

[Abigail]

I'm in Michigan, Allan.

Here's the thing, there are quite a few CES folks here, or people who belong to other "off shoots". They share what they believe, doesn't mean they are recruiting.

I share what I believe from time to time - even posted a link to a Jewish website I frequent. Doesn't mean I'm recruiting.

BUT - even if someone WERE recruiting, aren't we all big boys and girls, capable of making up our own minds?

[allan w.]

Actually my quote at the end of my post is a tourism slogan put out by the Australian tourism board !!

Ypu'd have to be an Aussie to understand that one.

[CM]

Thanks Abigail,

Apparently Allan thinks there is a conspiracy,

and Goey thinks knowing more then everyone is what's important.

I'm pretty fed up with some of these people.

If it wasn't for people like you and others I wouldn't bother to post.

But it seems some are getting something out of it so I'm staying for a while longer.

Whether anyone likes it or not.

Just wait till the next thread...lol....

[CM]

and Oakspear,

I can't tell you enough about how much your pm meant to me in the greatest way. It was priceless.

[Oakspear]

...all part of the pagan-new age-Jewish mysticism-atheist conspiracy service :ph34r:

[CM]

lol oaks

i post what i believe and i post my heart

and these things change at times

not many understand or see

[Abigail]

I may not post very often down here these days - though I'm sure the inspiriation to do so will come again. But in either case, whether I'm posting or not, I am reading.

[Goey]

Many fundamentalists, evengelicals and other Christians equate mysticism with heresy and spiritism ( not the same as spiritualism). Out of ignorance they castigate all forms of mysticism thinking it is somehow evil or devilish. Yet Christianity itself is a mystic religion and many of these same folks that castigate mysticism actually practice it in some form or another.

Galatians 2:20 Says: "...I no longer live, but Christ lives in me!..." This is mystical thought.

Jesus was a mystic. Paul was a mystic. The OT prophets were mystics. The Bible, especially the new testament, is woven with mystical thought. Is everything in the bible mystical? No, but a good portion of it is.

In simplified terms, the typical mystic (if there is such a thing) seeks "oneness" with God. One might also call that "fellowship" (not the TWI version). Different terms, but the same basic idea. To experience God.

The very idea of a transformation to become Christlike is mystical. The "renewed mind" is mystical. Practicing the presence of God is mystical. Having a personal relationship with God or Jesus is mystical.

What is speaking in tongues if is it is not a mystical practice? (Yet, I have experienced just as much if not more benefit from comtemplative prayer and creative imagery as I have from from speaking in tongues.)

While Christian mysticism may share some similarites with eastern mysticism or that of of other religions, they are not one in the same. Mysticism comes im many forms. Even Christian mysticism has diversities.

Christian mysticism is not necessarily "new age", as it goes back to the beginning of Christianity. Read Clement, Origin and other early church fathers.

Here are a couple of links for those who may want to investigate further.

http://www.chrmysticaloutreach.com/pages/1/index.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mysticism

http://www.frimmin.com/faith/mysticismintro.html

Edited May 9, 2006 by Goey

[TheInvisibleDan]

Excellent post, Goey.

In the same vein, one of my favorite books is entitled "The Mysticism of Paul the Apostle"

by Albert Schweitzer. It's a fantastic work.

Danny

[CM]

I'm sure you have more knowledge of the mystic type deal Goey.

From studying it. I have not claimed to have more knowledge about it then you.

The experience itself is what I am interested in. And it has other names as well.

I apologize if I come off rather direct and blunt. It is merely to communicate the points that I am making.

And the questions I have and what I see as of this day and time, and I can change. Not saying anyone else can't either.

Let me start over if you will allow me too and I can learn as well.

And perhaps others could get a bettewr grasp on what this is about-this thread that is.

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren,

Apparently Paul wants them to know this info in more detail.

concerning them which are asleep,

From the context of Thessolonians this does not seem to speak of dead people as in the grave

that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

Having no hope is a question - what does that mean?

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again,

Or since-whatever- the point is to believe it.

even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

When? And to where?

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,

Obviously getting this information from the Lord.

that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord

This phrase is not exactly clear to me. What would "unto the coming of the Lord" mean?

shall not prevent them which are asleep.

From every source I checked prevent is precede, although I'm not sold on the meaning as it is understood in todays language.

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,

Where is Heaven? Genesis gives no distinction between the atmosphere and space. And this is a major deal to me.

with the voice of the archangel,

Apparently a voice is involved, a sound of some sort.

and with the trump of God:

Not really sure what this is. I would say it's Jesus Christ, but I think there is a lot more to it then that.

and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

This may be synonomous with asleep or not, I don't know for sure.

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:

Well the "air" is pretty darn close I'd say.

and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

With the Lord as opposed to the Lord being with us? A consideration.

18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

So this is presented as many questions and not as something I'm trying to get anyone to believe, just to consider different possibilities.

[CM]

I do hope this does not start a battle again. A battle is not what I want or need in my life.

[templelady]

My viewpoint, man's Spirit is of God, Spirit cannot die. It is the body that dies and decays since once we leave this earthly life it is an empty cocoon. When Jesus Christ returns our bodies will be raised from their graves (reconstituted as it were to the state they were in the second we died) and we will appear before God with our Spirits and bodies reunited, It is after the judgement that those who are accepted into heaven receive new Bodies.

This, IMO, makes perfect sense, I find the whole Are the dead alive now debate often detracts from the true point of the message, Namely, Christ will return and his faithful Followers will be resurrected and given new bodoes besides to getting to live with him forever.

Edited May 10, 2006 by templelady

[sirguessalot]

ha..yeah

very nice post, Goey

worth a thread of its own, fer sure

peace

[CM]

WordWolf and Oakspear,

I apologize for the way I answered you both earlier in this thread.

All those who posted have posted some evidence in part.

Like I said I'm still reflecting on it along with other things too.

So anyways it's another look or perspective.

Perhaos a mix of figurative and literal.

To consider this takes time to digest i believe.

And it's not that anyone has to believe it.

All things are pure to the pure.

So there is no need to not look at it from a different pov.

and of course "all things are pure to the pure"

would obviously not apply to violations of people against people

But to look at different perspectives without fear.

And it's always a matter of personal choice and no right or wrong about looking or not looking.

Christianity is an eastern religion with it's roots in Jewish beliefs.

There are many eastern religions that could be looked into.

But imo just to pick up some of the fruit of their beliefs.

Rather then going hog wild into it ya know.

From what I gather from some of them, people tend to worship a person.

Much like we were into with twi. Or similar.

But to see some of what they believe can be enlightening.

As I recall it was the wise men from the east that knew of Jesus' upcoming birth.

Because they were watching and looking.

So I hope that helps. Everyone is different yet the same in many ways.

These are my thoughts on it. Not recruiting or badgering anyone.

It's a total individual decision and desire.

Nor would it be wrong to not investigate these things.

I come from a total kjv background...lol...yet can still see some other insights.

[Oakspear]

Apology accepted.

We're all looking for answers and trying to make some kind of sense in this world; the methods may vary: mine may not work for you, yours may not work for me.

As long as there's no pineapple on pizza...