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i would kinda like the dead to be alive so i could talk to them i do have faith and hope of seeing them again

Skyrider... I'm right there with you... Seems like if you took PFAL and just lived on the field in VP's day, you stood a chance of having a pretty good experience with twi. If you went into the corps under VP, well... you were in for a rude shock in many respects. Perhaps one of the biggest changes under LCM is that what the corps experienced, bled out onto the field almost immediately. Every standard presented as "corps level" soon trickled down to "adv class grad" to "fellowship coordinators" to "standing grads" standards. And then even to "new grads" standards. Ridiculous!! Sometimes I wonder, if I had stopped my involvement with twi after taking PFAL, what would I believe today... probably just about everything I was taught in that class... I felt like I had been enlightened. I felt like I had been given answers I'd hoped for my whole life. I felt like I could do anything with my life, and help others do the same! Of course, I was 20 years old. And I think that's how most 20-yr-olds feel, with or without the class...

Doreen, welcome to the Spot...glad to have you. I learned many things from PFAL and the ones that you mentioned were some of them, but I also learned some not so positive from my experience in my first PFAL class (since that is your question I will stick with just the foundational class) I think everyone learned something in the class, just not all the same things. We are after all individuals and what one gets out of a class another will not get the same thing. But I am certain that you are seeing that already with the few posts that you have already received. Keep the good, toss the bad and try to understand the experience in light of your own personal life and walk with God. You are after all the only one that can determine if what was "good" or "bad" has any validity in your life. So keep or toss...your choice. Understanding this item also had a huge impact on my life. Still does.

The more I took pfal, the more I learned. For instance --- 1.) I learned that you better NOT be late: (helpful later on in life for job interviews). 2.) I learned the class instructor was ALWAYS right: (helpful with biting my tongue when in disagreement with my boss at work). 3.) I learned to NEVER offer an unsolicited (or independant opinon): (Refer back to number 2). 4.) I learned that positives are ALWAYS better than negatives: (helpful knowledge when I FINALLY had a decent bank account). 5.) I learned that I was welcome as long as I didn't dissent with *party doctrine*: (another helpful hint for the later *pathways of life* -- job or otherwise). 6.) I found out that my *worth* to them was directly proportionate to the folks I *recruited*: (which helped me find a REAL job, and SHUN tele-marketing). 7.) I learned *money is everything*, since they wanted so much of my paycheck: (after I started paying MYSELF first, and ignoring them -- I see they were right). Sure I got a few things out of pfal (spiritually speaking), and though it took a few years for the above 7 to come into fruition -- those points above really are a lot of what I got out of pfal, twi, and the 10 or so years I was in. It was more like a lesson in life, rather than the biblical teaching aspect which they touted so much. Twi spoke so loudly by their actions, it was hard to hear the words, eh? :unsure: :unsure: (P.S. --- Welcome to GreaseSpot Cafe!! In all seriousness -- glad to have you.) :wave:

Unlike oldies, I believe that the majority of what was taught in pfal was wrong... However, as a Christian, I do believe in "eventual" eternal life and I believe that Jesus was the son of God and not God...like Catcup, I learned these things before I ever heard of twi. As far as being "thankful" to Mr. Wierwille...I'm afraid that the severe damage that he inflicted on so many people in his life overshadows any thoughts of "thankfulness" on my part...

Since leaving TWI, I have kind of devolved back almost to where my beliefs were just before getting into TWI. Although in my family we were raised Southern Baptist, we never believed Jesus was God. Also, God's grace, mercy, and salvation were taught to us from a very early age. So that was not news to us when we heard it in TWI. When we heard preaching in church about the trinity, we simply understood the trinity to be the three main subjects of our bible: God the Father, His Son Jesus, and Holy Spirit, which was interchangeably used for either God, or referred to characteristics of that interesting permanent change that the gift of salvation bestowed upon a person when they got born again. I suppose we were lucky to have just enough "churching" to hear about salvation and confess Jesus as our Lord, understand he was the Son of God who died for our sins, and God raised him from the dead so that we could have eternal life, and not enough "churching" to indoctrinate us on the trinity. Some time after being raised S.B., going through typical late 1960's teenage angst, drugs, and searching, and before getting into TWI, I was part of a charismatic movement. During that time, a woman taught me how to speak in tongues. I was growing, enjoying fruit of the spirit, a tight relationship with my Lord, getting answers to prayer, and I was reading my bible to learn about what exactly it all was. It seemed that finally, for once in my life, things were going well for me and I was on the right track. Then an introduction to TWI interrupted that journey. As far as the dead going straight to heaven when they die, I am no longer sure, but I don't really care, because sometimes I think it's just not that important, at least to me, at this point in time, to worry about what my status is after I die. I believe the most important thing is to take care of your "status" BEFORE you die, because afterwards, you can't change anything. If I am born again, which I believe I am, if God has it arranged so that I enter heaven immediately, that is fine with me. If my consciousness is in a state of suspended animation or unawareness until Christ comes back at a gathering together, that's fine, too. Whatever happens after I am dead, I have no control over. It's the moment by moment choices I make to live for Him today that matter the most in the long run, at least to me. But as a side note, I know plenty of great, and I do mean GREAT men and women of God (Rev. and Mrs. Billy Graham, for instance), who are convinced a believer goes straight to heaven at the moment of death. And NO leadership I EVER met in TWI can hold a candle to the genuine evangelistic and pastoral ministries these two had. I personally know very few people to have walked with such love and compassion in their lives in TWI, and NO ONE in TWI to have manifested their personal ministries on such a dynamic world-wide level and monumental impact, touching as many lives in such a powerfully positive way. I lived through over two decades of a cult which professed an elitist gnostic attitude, and tragically oppressed people and stole their lives with their "knowledge." So I do not believe searching for "an accurate knowledge" is the most important thing a believer should be doing. I think it's better to check the moral basics Jesus taught. God understands the confusion TWI interjected into each of our lives and the doubts that it caused, and he understands as humans we make mistakes and can at times be unintentionally and horribly deceived. So as far as I am concerned, He understands where I am and will meet me at my own level, and lead me where He wants me to go, as long as I do my best to keep my heart, my motivations, and my actions pure.

I still believe those few things, with one qualification. We were taught we didn't go to heaven "right away" as you put it. But they were rather vague about what happens in the end. I believe we don't go to heaven at all, but rather inherit the Kingdom of God on earth, which is what Jesus taught. The whole idea that the kingdom on earth was only for Israel is a problem. It separates Jesus from his words, which we are supposed to believe. Check out my website if you'd like: http://www.godskingdomfirst.net/ But I am thankful to have learned that Jesus is the Son of God and not God, and that the dead are unconscious now. Both of these seem to be huge stumbling blocks for a lot of other Christians.

HA! This whole thing sounds so much like Fellowlaborers, it's creepy. Our program was miniscule in comparison. We only graduated about 50 per year. There is only one other FLO that I know of that even posts here.(her hubby was FLO, also) We were supposed to commit ourselves to a total immersion type training program for 2 years and then return to our home areas as twig leaders, etc., even though I had already functioned at that level before becoming FLO. That was all I really wanted when I signed up. (To become a better leader for the people in the area I lived in.) We were promised an in-depth teaching of The Book Of Acts. Riiiight! Instead, we lived in a commune, had very little truly academic training and subjected ourselves to a grueling schedule of mundane chores and meeting after meeting where we were constantly chastised for not living up to our "true potential". On the plus side, I learned to make my own mayo from scratch and sprout mung beans and alfalfa, both being quite useful skills to possess as leaders of God's people. Ouch! I think I just bit my tongue. When the 2 years were finished, our home areas had changed so much we might as well have just moved to Mars. Sorry---Guess I got a bit off topic.