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It's a bit lengthy but well worth the time spent.

I have started a thread called "A Complete atheist, anti-supernatural society" in the Atheism, nontheism, skepticism: Questioning Faith sub forum if anyone wants to discuss the above.

JoyfulSoul wrote the following in the "I had a very interesting stop at HQ" thread in the "About the Way" forum: "I began as a college atheist 45 years ago. I'm long gone. Over the edge gone. Unreachable. Forever lost. If we ever enforce a complete atheist, anti-supernatural society, take me first, drag me around back and shoot me." What would such a world be like without all the supernatural beliefs in a heaven and hell be like? Or without the concept of a chosen people and a promised land? Or with the concept of humanism being our motive to love and care for one another? There are many other "Or" examples that could be given from either side of a supernatural vs atheism POV. If ad hominem attacks can be avoided, this could be an interesting discussion.

Thomas was skeptical. Because Thomas was skeptical, he was given a spiritual awareness not given to the others. The others had to believe. Thomas found out.

Pardon me for including my atheistic comments on this thread in response to Joyful Soul's disconcerting post about dealing with a demonic transference between LCM and himself. If there is any interest in discussion this topic, I will start a thread in the Matters of Faith forum.

Just in case someone might read "Chasity" as a misspelling of Chastity and think such a person exists on GSC (like I did at first ), I now recognize you meant me. Also, Chastity would have been an unusual, though interesting, name to give oneself .

I wish you could see it in the aboriginal. It's a dandy!

I began as a college atheist 45 years ago. I'm long gone. Over the edge gone. Unreachable. Forever lost. If we ever enforce a complete atheist, anti-supernatural society, take me first, drag me around back and shoot me.

Check it again. Re-search the transcripts. It's there. If it's not in the '71 or '79 transcripts, it's in another one. It may be lost or hidden. But I believe one day it we'll find it, along with those ancient manuscripts needed to prove other asserted claims.

I don't know if twi was heavily into these incredible (as in impossible to believe) "personal" encounters with Jesus and angels, but I do know that many of the people and ministries you've mentioned before have claimed the most ridiculous of them. "Seek and you shall find" can also be known as bias confirmation. Would telling you to keep a skeptical approach when looking at these unprovable claims be of any use?

Haha! No, that's something Jr. High School girls used to do at pajama parties when I was a kid. The ghost of Mary Worth is supposed to appear before you in the mirror.

I don't know if I should laugh or cry, Charity? I appreciate your kind concern. So, when I wrote about those people talking about their out of body experiences, you don't think that's real either? When it comes to the supernatural realm, I'm long gone out there. I've experienced a lot, but I've heard a lot more and frankly, I'm jealous. Take Will, for instance, I believe every word:

Correct. George

The are NO SUCH THING as devil spirits. You learned about them while in twi and this explains why you thought of one when LCM looked at you with all the pride and evil that were behind those eyes of his. Being involved with the other ministries you've mentioned only cemented your belief in demons because they are steeped in teaching about them and falsely claiming to rebuke them. Christianity is a fear-based doctrine that ministries/religions feed off of and become rich from because of the hold this doctrine has on keeping people in line. If you want to be free of having to cope with such a mythical being as an evil spirit, start deconstructing from what the bible teaches about them. Begin with the whole concept of the fall of Lucifer and then go straight to the most inane story of the serpent with Adam and Eve in the garden whereby all mankind supposedly inherited an evil and sinful nature and Satan became the god of this world. I sincerely hope you do.

Written by Neil Diamond. The Monkees' recording was his biggest hit. George

Kinda, but not really. You can watch the whole thing at Internet Archive. Advanced Class transcripts can also be found there.

I thought that was a joke. As I said, I dropped out of the Intermediate Class. I just didn't feel comfortable saying whatever came to mind. Doubtless, demons started with me maybe in the womb, who knows? I'd hear a guy in twig proclaiming, once again, 'walk forth boldly on my word...'. You could predict it. I just wasn't settled with it. Wasn't even allowed to take CFS. Dale Sides was a Corp graduate, I believe. Deliverance, that was his thing (one of his things). Been prayed over by a lot of people. Unless someone truly has experience and insight, I don't take this matter to men anymore. For 30 years I've just been going and doing best I can. I spoke of a malaise, though. That was real. Seems everyone was affected by. Idk, I 'see' the Holy Spirit working right next to demons all the time. All over the place. Paul writes of the disarray of the church sitting alone in prison in his latter years.

Have you taken the Advanced Class? It’s all about devils. I believe the counterclockwise method Waysider mentioned is explained in the AC.

Mmmph

True story. And, I dropped out of the intermediate class. I dropped in for the weekend. What about all the people who took all the classes and lived there in training? Those demons had a lot more time to work.

Have you tried to turn counterclockwise, look in the mirror and say "Mary Worth" 3 times? Well, you just never know until you try.

There's one story of TWI I haven't told. I forget about it. Now, it comes back. After my two wonderful ROAs, I eventually wound up in the Army. I got back out and joined a twig. Some of us went together to some fall Harvest weekend at HQ. Everything felt different. There was a malaise over the place. As a relative outsider I was used to the kind of music you hear from the platform. This more informal weekend, the Fresh Prez was DJing a dance with music like ZZ Top, Legs. On Sunday we were sitting third row center in the WOW auditorium. LCM looked down into my eyes, I looked up at him expectantly, then BAM! A demonic transference took place, I had been hit. That thing hit my brain coiling itself around like Battling Tops. I didn't know what to do. Should I get out of there fast, speaking in tongues, rebuking it, making a scene? How would I explain that to my twig coordinator and the people with whom I was trying to fit in? I had never experienced anything like this, just how serious is this? That demonic bondage has been with me since. I feel it right now as I type. It's always there but I forget about it. I didn't run out of the auditorium. I stayed as we sang something like How Firm a Foundation. Only God knows how this has impacted me for 30 years. All the churching I mentioned I did in this current state. Once, when a man named Bobby Connor was preaching, it started making noises. I got up and walked out of the room. So, I apologize to anyone with fresh wounds I may have offended. I've sought deliverance and been told to get over it myself. I'm trying... I have. Laying on the floor, speaking in tongues trying to rebuke it. Some long fasts. Go here, go there, sitting in deliverance class. I sat through Exercising Spiritual Authority, or whatever it's called with Dr Dale Sides of LMCI. In earlier days he'd do a mass deliverance of everyone in the room. Hacking, coughing, shrieking, it was quite a spectacle. I was not affected, however. Yeah, it can get bad. Freedom for me has been coping. Pushing on. And, having recalled all this and spoken it openly (there are a few people on the planet who could figure out who I am) I have to rethink my plans And just for my own benefit, I like women, OK? Thank you Jesus that's not what I wrestle with.

Pretty much. Categories are supposed to facilitate discussion, not hamper it. Whether something belongs in Doctrinal or About the Way is sometimes a matter of nuance and emphasis. And yes, there will be overlap. Our discussion about Speaking in Tongues was about all of the above. It was impossible to discuss whether TWI taught us all to fake SIT without at least agreeing on what SIT means in TWI and in Christianity. So a lot of the debate was whether the thread belonged in About the Way or doctrinal, and no one was really wrong. Point is, put your thread where you think it goes. If we feel a need to move it, we will, and we will explain why. Politics is a problem because folks on both sides proved incapable of having a conversation without it degenerating into namecalling and personal attacks, and no one trusted the moderators to be neutral or consistent. Yes, sometimes religion and politics cross paths. TWI's right wing identity is a part of who they are. But so is their pro-choice stand. Tread carefully and respectfully, and we will do our best to do the same.

"The evil men do lives after them. The good is oft interred with their bones." ...the fishin' rod guy