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My fellowship commander, an eternally committed Corps grad, did not "teach" me to follow Jesus Christ. Instead, he "taught" me to stand on the shoulders of victor. Jesus Christ was merely a name to be uttered - the name of a bastard Jew far away in absentia. The one who claims to speak for God is surely the one who does not. No one can jump over a barn.

Yeah, it's like I said, if I'm the only one who has experienced redeeming qualities with the Way I'll just need to be getting on my way. No offense. All love. We're just doing something different. Keep in mind, I haven't done much at all since the 1980s. I've experienced flaws. Serious Flaws. The people I talked to at HQ recently, they've experienced flaws too. For anyone traumatized, I want to give you whatever space you need.

It's a good thing I'm a follower of Jesus Christ and not some other man. The Way International taught me that. Previously, I considered myself an atheist. The narrative of the life of VP Wierwille, maybe I don't know half of it. I do know this, I have Holy Spirit in me, I have some level of discernment, and even though he passed before I came to the ministry, you can't convince the love of God was not in that man. Now, when you get done gnashing your teeth, I'm fully aware there were other things in the man, too. That's tragic. How about that miracle worker Lonnie Frisbee. Is somebody surprised that a godly man can get horribly off track? Anybody here know of Paul Cain? Todd Bentley? Mike Bickle? Jimmy Swaggert? Nothing new under the son, fellas. It's a good thing the Way Introduced me again to Jesus Christ. He doesn't have those kinds of problems.

Oh, man. I hate to keep quoting you on this stuff, but that is exactly what The Way teaches you NOT to do. "No private interpretation" and all that razzamatazz. People have been unceremoniously kicked to the curb and left high and dry for even attempting that. I could go on forever with anecdotes that illustrate my point but I won't. There is 25 years worth of testimony here if you're so inclined to look for it. In Way World, up is down and in is out. If you don't know the answer, write: The Teacher P.O. Box 267 New Knucklehead, Ohio.

There is this reformation going on in Christianity. I believe it's called deconstruction. I've been churching a long time. At IHOPKC the vision was the Arrowhead Stadium Prophecy. At Morningstar it was prophecy and worship. Everywhere it seems the vision was another Azusa Street Revival. Miracles? Where are the miracles? We know this much, God isn't the one who has to change. Well then, who has to change!? Did any of you catch the recent Asbury Revival? You may not think that was real but don't even waste your time trying to tell me it wasn't. Dr Wadsworth has just been doing a deep dive on the structure and practices of the first century church. Actually, he's been doing it 40 years or so. He himself started as a professional Sunday-preaching pastor. He does this deep dive and then he compares it to our modern churches with an honest look at our dysfunction. I'm the one saying the Way incorporated a lot of insights into this dysfunction, perhaps the chief of which is that we the laypersons should be studying the Bible FOR OURSELVES. The Way does that. They teach that. I don't have much of an answer for those who have memorized a litany of everything the Way did wrong and don't see anything they do right. That has not been my experience. I don't have the energy to change anyone's mind like that. If I don't find anyone here who has something redemptive to say about the Way my time here will be short lived. Not mad at anyone I'm just coming from a different place going in a different direction. I want everyone to be happy. Just, why are people here? Im only here because I know of no other place to talk to ex-Way people. If I'm the only one who thinks he sees something positive I'm probably in the wrong place.

But you helped me escape when I needed you! Thank you. (You might need to post another quote.)

It's possible to conflate the two- mainly because vpw himself worked hard to conflate the two, and convinced a lot of us, ONCE, that it was so. vpw plagiarized his way through BG Leonard's class, JE Stiles' book, and everything Bullinger ever printed, and made a comfortable living off of it, claiming he was learning all this from God Almighty. When some of these people came up, vpw claimed he "got the error out" of their works- which was a bogus claim. That gave him materials from people who understood God Almighty more than he did- although if they made a mistake, he just copied it over because he lacked the depth of understanding to "get the error out" for real. But he could sure claim he did- and people bought it. The real results came when vpw hijacked the hippies. He read about the legit Christians at the House of Acts- prayer, healing, REAL movements of God- and all by naive young folk whom he could hoodwink. So, he did. He went there, and performed his full act. Trying to serve God, and sure nobody would lie or deceive them, they became convinced- based on all the plagiarized stuff they thought he'd learned on his own- that this man was the great power of God. In this manner, he bewitched them. He managed to convince some of them to join twi. This was how he managed to strangle a new movement of God Almighty among the people, a move that the Devil no doubt applauded. He took people who were already serving God, seeing miracles, etc, and turned them into twi's sales force, quenching the spirit, and making them into income sources. Those people recruited people to twi, and those people they recruited did the same. Any real movement of God's people in twi was entirely due to those people. So, there are people who had godly experiences in twi- due to those people- and were told it was due to vpw, which was all a smokescreen. They still tried to serve God, but inadvertently advertised a movement of a man. Once those people started arriving, vpw was able to put into practice some things he'd always wanted to but never had the chance- namely, rape and molestation. He was able to put together really elaborate social structures to find him victims, groom the victims, isolate the victims, and cover up anything, and silence the victims if they seemed ready to come forward. Confusing twi for a " reformation of the church" is possible if one has no idea what happened, why, or who did what. The House of Acts was real, vpw was a fraud. In twi, both interacted. It's that simple.

You mean, like when Jesus overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and chased away the folk that made the temple big business? Jesus walked with God (and, technically, with Jesus) and he was vocal about some of the crimes done on his watch.

If you're so motivated, please send $20 via the donate button. If you're not, no one is going to bust any part of you over it. But, yes, it costs money, and donations are cheerfully accepted and rarely solicited. BTW, I've been to groups where I was never pushed for donations. Of all things, I was involved for a time with a Catholic church group that never hit me up for donations....although we once did a project to feed homeless, and we did it out-of-pocket. Nobody asked me to, but I opened my pocket.... and in that instance, it actually made a big difference.

In my opinion, The Way is not a reformation of the church, first century or otherwise. It's the remnants of a devious MLM scam, built on lies and plagiarism. I'm not bitter, just stating the factual reality. Not only is the vast majority of the material content plagiarized, it's filled with inaccurate assertions, such as "the four crucified", the so-called "law of believing", roosters that crowed differently 2,000 years ago, special bar mitzvas for illegitimate boys, inerrancy of scripture, bogus tithing requirements and on and on and on. The Way is and was a lot of things. A reformation of the church is not one of them.

I mentioned this man before. The Way is part of a further reformation of the church, IMO. Anybody want to see the miracles, again?

I wonder if TWI today still “teaches” crowing cocks had different habit patterns in “Bible times.”

Time will tell. However, Judge not, lest you be judged. Galatians 5:21-23 New International Version 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Respectfully sir, Evangelicals make up 25% of the American populace. Zionism dies without theology. As I've said before, I do plenty of that elsewhere. I don't need it here. Hopefully more are interested in the Way as it is today. That's why I started the thread.

Uh, yeah. I'm trying to be hands off but you guys are making this difficult. Candace Owens? There is NO reason to discuss her outside politics. Zionism is a political discussion by definition. You're giving us very little wiggle room here. The topic of this thread is TWI, present tense. Keep it focused. Next political comment gets deleted without warning.

Just a reminder: There is no shortage of on-line venues for discussing politics.

That's true, I suppose, though as Human points out, it would be hard to find a telecast of bridge. Let's modify the clue: What do baseball, bridge, golf, Formula One racing, and tennis have in common? Football, soccer, and basketball do NOT have the same thing in common. Interestingly, curling and darts DO. George

Hogan's Heroes "Once upon a time, there were three little girls who went to the police academy; and they were each assigned very hazardous duties. But I took them away from all that and now they work for me." George

California Girls "I thought love was only true in fairy tales." George

Zionism is a passionate topic with me. It makes me angry we even have to discuss it. People can be so dense. 'Duh, the Jews, God's chosen people. Israel! That's in the Bible.' It just depends on who wants it. I don't personally need it. There are people more courageous than me on X.

I think we may be able to discuss him and his message if we keep it about biblical matters and not political. Biblical would be 'old covenant' vs. 'new covenant'. etc. etc. Admittedly, Baldwin does talk politics a lot during his sermons.. so it will have to be the moderator call to allow it or not. Whatever Raf decides is ok with me. Thx.

I do. And my rebound into Catholicism helps me to examine and critique my steps all the more.

Sorry to hear that... well, we know now there's abundant life outside of TWI. Thank you for posting and please continue!

Thank you. Thought maybe it was the guy who wanted me to know Chuck Baldwin is a verboten political figure. So, who here is Christian? Anyone wanna get saved?

"Like, who hosts this board? Should I send $20?" To answer your first question: Pawtucket hosts this board. As to your second question: You can send whatever you like or send nothing at all. There's a donate button at the top. It's a system that seems to have worked for the past 25 years.