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"spiritually mature"

It seems very unlikely that Mrs. Wierwille was present at that pj party. "He played a porn video followed by a talk on how a Christian can so renew their mind that this stuff wouldn't bother them, the spiritually mature can handle anything and that anything done in the love of God is okay." I've heard that he would tell a victim that she was chosen because she was spiritually mature enough to be with him. And then, in order to keep his abuse secret, he would also say to keep what happened between them in a lock box because there were others who were not spiritually mature enough to handle knowing about it. OMG, Holy ...., and twi today still honors this evil man as the founder of their ministry.

TWI's sedative to the conscience - About The Way - GreaseSpot Cafe T-Bone, 9-12-2008 "What is Libel" thread. What is Libel? - Page 3 - About The Way - GreaseSpot Cafe Fact: On September 13th 1984, TWI's Rome City Indiana Campus, I was at a pajama party hosted by vp. In attendance were some two hundred Family Corps [both adults and teenagers]. He played a porn video followed by a talk on how a Christian can so renew their mind that this stuff wouldn't bother them, the spiritually mature can handle anything and that anything done in the love of God is okay. After the talk, he lightened up things by telling a few jokes and showing a porn pen to a sixteen-year-old girl. -------------------------------------------------------------- T-Bone 3-10-2008 "A note on forgiving" thread. And you know – it's not like I've brought up anything that happened on a remote island, a long time ago…in a galaxy far, far away...and so maybe you think I don't have all the facts straight…My stuff is written down…They encouraged us to keep a journal while going through the Corps program. Man oh man did I write stuff down! I'm working on "My Story" – don't know if I'll ever post it here – but it's been very therapeutic for me to articulate my experience. I'm up to chapter 5 of "My Story" – my Corps experience…Yecch! I'm reviewing my Corps journals. I can tell you the exact "day and time and hour " when vp showed our Corps the porn video at the pajama party. Wanna hear something really scary? At what point in our Corps training do you think he showed it to us? It's on the third page of my first Corps journal – Tonto and I had only been in residence eleven days!

tonto, 1-31-2005, When was the first time you knew of sexual abuse/harrasment - About The Way - GreaseSpot Cafe Right after we left TWI in '86 we talked with a girl who had been groped by veepee when she was in rez in the 70's. We heard of other accounts and suddenly all of those incidents that never sat well with me rushed to the forefront. Like the in rez pajama party where he showed porn flicks, (and I mean the ones with a woman and a horse) to us in the corps with the junior corps present. There were other incidents throughout the years which should have been huge red flags, but when you don't connect the dots because you think you are part of the single most important spiritual movement of our time, you become blind to reality. Shoot, I can't believe how duped I was. ================================================ T-Bone, 3-3-2006 https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/9344-why-you-cant-sweep-it-under-the-carpet/One memory hit me real hard – VPW having a pajama party at our campus. He shows us a porn movie [a dog and a woman]. He invites one young lady up to the front to show her a porn pen he has . What do you think of that?!?! How appropriate is that? Imagine your local pastor having a sleepover and doing things like that? Kind of scary – okay make it an uncle or a neighbor – yeccchhh – still creepy. Oh – wait I forgot one more little sordid detail – I neglected to tell you this was the Indiana Campus – the Family Corps! There were teenagers in this pajama party. Oooops – I'm sorry another little detail – the young lady VPW was showing the porn pen to – I think she was 16. Oh – I can hear it now – a TWI screw-with-your-head-ism – "Get your head out of the gutter – I've just so renewed my mind that I don't think like that." Yeah, you just so f---d your conscience that it doesn't bother you. tonto, 5-27-2005 VPW, Cancer, and Gartmore - Page 5 - About The Way - GreaseSpot Cafe Uh, a "pajama party" to which VP specifically invited the junior corps, was the setting for this particular screening of the beastiality film. Shortly before its' screening a pajama-clad VP called an extremely shapely pajama-wearing 16 year old junior corps girl up to personally see the porno pen he had in his hand. Yeah, we all needed to see that "shocking wake-up call". Oh, and monkeys might fly out of my b*++. ======================================================= T-Bone 4-3-2007 Does twi need to be good? - Page 7 - About The Way - GreaseSpot Cafe Jean – I know this is a lot to take in. This stuff sounds so appalling…shocking…unbelievable…and unless a person was a member of the Way Corps [the people who were trained by and worked for TWI] they may never fully understand how VPW sabotaged people's moral compass and laid the groundwork for sexual predators like himself. I was in the Family Corps – and if you have a hard time believing first hand accounts because you do not know the person – you may want to consider the implications of something that was experienced by all Corps and on occasion even some TWI followers who were not Corps…At some point during Corps training everyone gets to see one of VPW's favorite videos – a dog having sex with a woman. VPW's Christian Family and Sex Class was only a hint of his lascivious attitudes. When I was in residence – VPW had a pajama part [an informal setting for making a good soft-sell of his perverted lifestyle] and showed us that porn video – remember I said I was in Family Corps – there were teens present! At one point during the pajama party VPW invited a sixteen year old girl to the front of the room and shows her this pen as he describes to the rest of us that it has little figures of a man and a woman having sex and you make them do it by moving the pen up and down. VPW's very presence always had the power to sedate the intellectual and moral functions of his most devote followers – there we were cutting up with jokes during the video – he's laughing along with us – all the while slipping in all that nonsense about how he's so renewed his mind that this doesn't bother him or shock him.

Not only was NOTHING like that ever taught in CFS, but I don't remember ever hearing anything like that anywhere in twi. Admittedly, I wasn't everywhere, but nobody seems to have seen it in all the posts I've ever read. I'm not keen to endorse everything in the Catholic catechism, but what you quoted is a lot more sound than vpw's version of things. In 7 sessions of "Christian Family and Sex". there was less than 1 episode on "Christian Family" and 6 full episodes on sex.

I should… I mean, I want to… I just can’t… People still call this schmuck “Dr.” Even John Schoenheit does. WITAF!?!

Not even close to what was "taught" in Christian Family and Sex. *Just spit in your hand*

Thank you for posting WordWolf. I think the paper is excellent; but was lacking some crucial reasons (perhaps even more compelling) why marriage should be treated as sacred and entirely inviolate. The following is from the catholic catechism. Maybe aspects of the following was said in the Christian Family teaching series or collateral readings at TWI but I don't remember: Marriage is a sacrament (a visible sign of an invisible grace) and treated as a sacred covenant between man and woman, established by Christ himself and intended for the good of the man and woman and for the procreation and education of children. So much more than only a social or legal agreement, it also signifies the union between Christ and the church wherein God's grace is present and active. It's also a covenant, a more profound and personal bond than only a contract. It involves a lifelong commitment of love, fidelity, and openness to children, imitating the relationship between Christ and the church. The couple's commitment to one another can be celebrated publicly by exchanging vows within a mass, by administering the sacrament to each other and through it, they receive more grace to live out the marital commitment as a sign of God's love in the world.

Helpless LA is fine, sunshine most the time and the feeling is laid back

Back in the U.S.S.R. There is a town in North Ontario with dream comfort memory to spare.

Indeed it did. That, and Tom Elder.

Major Tom Flew in from Miami Beach, BOAC didn't get to bed last night

Yes. I assume Matt Helm gave it away. George

Thumbs up for a perfect segue. (I'm gonna pass, though. I've been hogging them lately.)

Space Oddity "Four, three, two, one, earth below us"

T-bone's posts above were long so I edited them to get to the pajama party. (You can search "pajama" and his full posts come up quickly.)

Thankx

Looking back on my last post above, I did translate what you had said in an amplified way which was, I'm sure, more harsher than what you were intending. I was being a bit arrogant and condescending . I'm sorry for this. I'd like to reply differently by saying "I think it is bewildering that God would possibly leave believers guessing/wondering/being worried/fearful about whether they will go to a place called heaven or a placed called hell for all eternity. Also, I understand that you don't have an answer to my question. No one does, so I suppose that makes it a rhetorical one. You're right, the Ford cannot explain Henry just as people, on their own, cannot explain what God means when he says something. I think it is up to him, though, to clearly define his will so as to remove all doubt as to whether once saved/always saved or staying faithful to be saved is correct. This is one reason I became skeptical of the existence of an omnipotent and omniscient god.

T-Bone's mentioned it a number of times.

I think the question was rhetorical.

I completely agree that the grooming done and advances made on believers were fruit of vp's rotten tree which was rooted in his deviant interpretation of verses he'd cherry picked. I know of a top twi leader who had stopped abusing one female by saying he wasn't sure that what "they" were doing was biblically correct solely as an excuse so he could start up with another female. In an attempt to normalize his lax/corrupted views on things as you mentioned above, I remember reading from a poster here how vp would have pajama gatherings where teens were present and his behavior at times became inappropriate. I'll try to find the post.

How should i know? You're asking the Ford to explain Henry.

You are correct. The catholic church doctrine won't change or change easily, but any one of us can go to the traditional mass and worship God and enjoy and cherish the experience in the process. That's where I'm at right now. They don't know that silent SIT is in play with one of their parishoners...