..........."the cold wind of change blew in" when YOU saw it was time to leave twi and could no longer equate the two compatible.....(serving twi/ serving Lord).
<_<
Well said.
We often see disagreements here at GS about when things got bad in TWI and when was the right time to leave. There have been posters who left as early as 1973 or '74, believing that the good ol' days were gone, and those who stuck around into the 90's and beyond. Even those who are still in.
There was always good and bad about TWI, there always will be. When the bad outweighs the good for each individual is when it's time to get out.
Well for me and My spouse we left early on and it really had more to do with what we perceived as our own lack of believing and inability to get work(we were in the middle of the early 80's recession) We felt we were failing the ministry..
Funny thing was we got work right away once we left. .. I am not sure if that signifies anything at all but it was our reality.
Having looked at what people have written here, I suspect we would have been forced to leave 4 years down the road if we had stayed anyway... so I guess We just lucked out. (My spouse was Corp and I was Spouse Corps??? meaning HE married me even though I was not a Corps person) It was intimated by the LC that I would need to go through Corps training at some point. I am pretty certain that would not have happened.. I was already starting to not be too enthusiastic about the VP worship. And One of my WOW Brothers had left Corps Because of it.
Do I feel my service to God was in vein because VP hijacked some one Else's ministry.
Nope not for a second.
I know where my heart was. I know that I went WOW because of my love of God and my desire to Serve God.
IT facilitated my ability to make my walk with God stronger.
I was also lucky as the 9 of us that served WOW together were of the same mind and heart regarding GOD. and we focused on having fun and spreading the word and growing. ( Interestingly our focus was more on fellowship with people than running classes.. Yes I know Shame on us)
I regret a lot of things in my life and I worry about those people I introduced to the ministry as I would hate for a single one to have endured the pain of many of the people who post here.
I know there was some wretched awful stuff about the ministry but many things touched my life
Not VP but the people who became a part of my life, the people who I came in contact with, The bible I read, I spent much of my WOW year reading over Romans and Ephesians. The memories I made and the peace I found on the WOW field (I came from an abusive home life) I can not tell you how many times I would sit in our WOW living room and pinch myself because I was free.
My WOW year was not an easy one but for me it was a major turning point and a true blessing, in my life. Yes I now know how truly lucky I was in this regard.
Do I feel my service to God was in vein because VP hijacked some one Else's ministry.
Nope not for a second.
I know where my heart was. I know that I went WOW because of my love of God and my desire to Serve God.
leafy.......you were one of the smart ones. :)
I have often stated that had I left after my first WOW year, and gone back to college........my twi regrets would be minimal, at best. You done good..........and don't think for one second that you missed anything by declining to go into the corps program, even though you were spouse corps.
Like your WOW brother..........I, too, saw VP worship in the corps program.
Hmmm..........."out in left field"........is that a euphemism?
How about this euphemism?..............the fog years
That euphemism was strategically supplanted to detract and divert our attention.
Good one.
For me, sitting in yet another BORING meeting pretending we were "prospering" when it was PAINFULLY obvious everything was in the tank. And not being willing to go through yet another disagreement with my LC about being realistic. No growth, no excitment, etc. It felt like being in the bunker with Hitler while he believed the tide would turn any day. Sheeshh!
The wind of change was obvious to me in 1977 when they started that whole "PFAL is the class for you" All the other ROA's seemed to be about Jesus and/or God stuff. That ROA was the big push of the CLASS. It changed things. But I did not leave until after the reading of that vile paper Chris Geer read to the corps. I stayed TOO long. I thought I could change the ministry BACK to focus on God. I did not know we did not focus on God because VP never had that as his focus -- only those men whose ideas were stolen were focused on Jesus/God. Stayed TOO long and in the WRONG place...
The FOG years -- GEEZ - the fog horn had blown loudly and repeatedly... "Get out" it bellowed. Most of my friends already left.
The wind of change was obvious to me in 1977 when they started that whole "PFAL is the class for you" All the other ROA's seemed to be about Jesus and/or God stuff. That ROA was the big push of the CLASS. It changed things. But I did not leave until after the reading of that vile paper Chris Geer read to the corps. I stayed TOO long. I thought I could change the ministry BACK to focus on God. I did not know we did not focus on God because VP never had that as his focus -- only those men whose ideas were stolen were focused on Jesus/God. Stayed TOO long and in the WRONG place...
The FOG years -- GEEZ - the fog horn had blown loudly and repeatedly... "Get out" it bellowed. Most of my friends already left.
Dot.......yes, I concur that in 1977 the wind of change was blowing in. Also, vic's brother, harry, died in october 1977 and no longer was the older brother there to rein vic in.
The 1978 adv class still had many tapes and testimonies of other men/women's ministries and their walking in God's power and revelation. Then, all things went in-house.......all praise went to twi's "zion"......."the only ones with the truth"......all churches were "of the devil"......"seed boys" were at the top of church hierarchy.......etc. etc.
Some claim that martindale was the downfall of twi...........and I disagree. And twi would very much like to re-write history and point to martindale as the fall guy.
Under wierwille's founding, formulating, frolicking and floundering, his brand of evil was afoot............and the cold wind was gusting by 1978.
I was at a special meeting right after Uncle Harry died, in Chicago, where vpee was there for some sort of big gathering, I don't remember what the weekend's event name was, but it was a big deal. Anyway, vpee called a meeting with the corps and wows and talked off the record about his brother and their relationship. I was relatively new in the word, but I got a bad feeling from that meeting and what was said...shoulda listened to my instincts.
I think you're right skyrider, who was going to reign him in after harry died....I don't think h.a. would have, nor ermal, I didn't know them personally, but neither one strikes me as being able to ride herd over vpee...anyone who was on staff at hq in those days care to comment on their relationships with vpee?
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Oakspear
We often see disagreements here at GS about when things got bad in TWI and when was the right time to leave. There have been posters who left as early as 1973 or '74, believing that the good ol' days were gone, and those who stuck around into the 90's and beyond. Even those who are still in.
There was always good and bad about TWI, there always will be. When the bad outweighs the good for each individual is when it's time to get out.
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cheranne
Spiritually speaking it was a false light,false doctrine from a false "prophet" we just got snagged by a spiritual darkness
that I for one have learned to beware of and too warn my children of too.
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Bolshevik
I asked for about 5-10 years why I was not allowed to choose my religion. What was so special about twi? They'd hold a gun to your head if they could.
One day I realized that God was dull, a renewed mind for eternity was not what I wanted, and heaven is something to fear.
If there was any enjoyment of existence, it has to be taken in this life.
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leafytwiglet
Well for me and My spouse we left early on and it really had more to do with what we perceived as our own lack of believing and inability to get work(we were in the middle of the early 80's recession) We felt we were failing the ministry..
Funny thing was we got work right away once we left. .. I am not sure if that signifies anything at all but it was our reality.
Having looked at what people have written here, I suspect we would have been forced to leave 4 years down the road if we had stayed anyway... so I guess We just lucked out. (My spouse was Corp and I was Spouse Corps??? meaning HE married me even though I was not a Corps person) It was intimated by the LC that I would need to go through Corps training at some point. I am pretty certain that would not have happened.. I was already starting to not be too enthusiastic about the VP worship. And One of my WOW Brothers had left Corps Because of it.
Do I feel my service to God was in vein because VP hijacked some one Else's ministry.
Nope not for a second.
I know where my heart was. I know that I went WOW because of my love of God and my desire to Serve God.
IT facilitated my ability to make my walk with God stronger.
I was also lucky as the 9 of us that served WOW together were of the same mind and heart regarding GOD. and we focused on having fun and spreading the word and growing. ( Interestingly our focus was more on fellowship with people than running classes.. Yes I know Shame on us)
I regret a lot of things in my life and I worry about those people I introduced to the ministry as I would hate for a single one to have endured the pain of many of the people who post here.
I know there was some wretched awful stuff about the ministry but many things touched my life
Not VP but the people who became a part of my life, the people who I came in contact with, The bible I read, I spent much of my WOW year reading over Romans and Ephesians. The memories I made and the peace I found on the WOW field (I came from an abusive home life) I can not tell you how many times I would sit in our WOW living room and pinch myself because I was free.
My WOW year was not an easy one but for me it was a major turning point and a true blessing, in my life. Yes I now know how truly lucky I was in this regard.
Sorry if that is kind of off topic.
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skyrider
leafy.......you were one of the smart ones. :)
I have often stated that had I left after my first WOW year, and gone back to college........my twi regrets would be minimal, at best. You done good..........and don't think for one second that you missed anything by declining to go into the corps program, even though you were spouse corps.
Like your WOW brother..........I, too, saw VP worship in the corps program.
Hmmm..........."out in left field"........is that a euphemism?
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skyrider
How about this euphemism?..............the fog years
That euphemism was strategically supplanted to detract and divert our attention.
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JustThinking
Good one.
For me, sitting in yet another BORING meeting pretending we were "prospering" when it was PAINFULLY obvious everything was in the tank. And not being willing to go through yet another disagreement with my LC about being realistic. No growth, no excitment, etc. It felt like being in the bunker with Hitler while he believed the tide would turn any day. Sheeshh!
JT
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Dot Matrix
The wind of change was obvious to me in 1977 when they started that whole "PFAL is the class for you" All the other ROA's seemed to be about Jesus and/or God stuff. That ROA was the big push of the CLASS. It changed things. But I did not leave until after the reading of that vile paper Chris Geer read to the corps. I stayed TOO long. I thought I could change the ministry BACK to focus on God. I did not know we did not focus on God because VP never had that as his focus -- only those men whose ideas were stolen were focused on Jesus/God. Stayed TOO long and in the WRONG place...
The FOG years -- GEEZ - the fog horn had blown loudly and repeatedly... "Get out" it bellowed. Most of my friends already left.
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skyrider
Dot.......yes, I concur that in 1977 the wind of change was blowing in. Also, vic's brother, harry, died in october 1977 and no longer was the older brother there to rein vic in.
The 1978 adv class still had many tapes and testimonies of other men/women's ministries and their walking in God's power and revelation. Then, all things went in-house.......all praise went to twi's "zion"......."the only ones with the truth"......all churches were "of the devil"......"seed boys" were at the top of church hierarchy.......etc. etc.
Some claim that martindale was the downfall of twi...........and I disagree. And twi would very much like to re-write history and point to martindale as the fall guy.
Under wierwille's founding, formulating, frolicking and floundering, his brand of evil was afoot............and the cold wind was gusting by 1978.
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now I see
I was at a special meeting right after Uncle Harry died, in Chicago, where vpee was there for some sort of big gathering, I don't remember what the weekend's event name was, but it was a big deal. Anyway, vpee called a meeting with the corps and wows and talked off the record about his brother and their relationship. I was relatively new in the word, but I got a bad feeling from that meeting and what was said...shoulda listened to my instincts.
I think you're right skyrider, who was going to reign him in after harry died....I don't think h.a. would have, nor ermal, I didn't know them personally, but neither one strikes me as being able to ride herd over vpee...anyone who was on staff at hq in those days care to comment on their relationships with vpee?
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