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I was never in TWI. I can't relate to a direct experience with victor or loy or the corporation. I was able to discern within the first 12 minutes of PFAL that victor was complete fraud. However, my life was adversely affected by people who were CORPS in the late 70s or early 80s and by people whose worldview, moral compass and "spiritual maturity" conformed to victor's PI doctrines It seems to me, from reading and listening to victor's own words, and from the witness testimonies here, belief mattered more to vic and Loy than knowing. Victor didn't really know that he knew that he knew. That was just another distracting pithy piece of bullshonta. Victor didn't know much. He believed much. What he knew was that if he could get others to believe him, he could make a materially successful life for himself. And he was right. He knew that that he knew that he knew if anyone ever found out the truth, he would be done. That was his greatest fear - being found out for who and what he really was. He had to be right, he couldn't be wrong, lest his supply dry up. Hence, M&A every and any liability potentially exposing him. What did victor know? Exactly what he was doing.

Right. I learned about the no-questions policy before taking PFAL. I used this as one of many arguments to my ex wife for why her indoctrination was destroying our marriage. (Later, I realized the indoctrination was not solely responsible, but it did dovetail perfectly with her NPD.) She, being a loyal fellowship cog, secretly told the FC, her uncle, all of my expressed criticisms. When I finally took "the class," in a last ditch effort to show my determination to save our marriage, the FC assured me I could ask questions at any time. However, I quickly learned he was disingenuous. My first question was about all without exception vs all without distinction, and the clear, obvious error. He let out a loud, exasperated sigh and said, "Well... no one has ever asked that question!" He was embarrassed and frustrated and furious. I never asked another question. I planned to follow up that question with, "Did victor not have access to an atlas during his exhaustive research? Nicaea is not in France. Did he really not know that?" At that point I realized it was more compassionate to pity this fool than to show him his own foolishness.

Hey Nathan that sparked an idea about the policies for PFAL. As a class coordinator you were not to answer questions directly, but defer them to a Q and A session at the end of the class. This policy was highlighted to the new students from day one. With all of the mental acrobatics that the new student is taken through in the class, the net effect of this policy is like Nathan is observing in the U of L Romans class to not answer questions at all directly and to defer the answering of questions to the class coordinator. In all of the years of running classes and all the classes I ran I never once saw this policy result in anything other than people forgetting about their questions or them getting ignored. Peer pressure for Corps would prevent escalating any questionable areas where legit questions arose. How many of you ever experienced a last session of the class where any questions of substance were asked or answered? None for me. I postulate that this is a clear example of brainwashing techniques.

My impression was that VPW was more of a natural narcissist and generally believed his own lies and hype. Craig was more of a narcissist by imitation but was a very diligent student. I think he also believed his own lies. Yes I trusted them and should not have as it added two decades of bondage to my life path that I probably could have done without. Thats the ramifications for me. I guess everyone can speak for themself.

Yes, I believed them. Should I have - in hindsight, no. One ramification was critical thinking went out the door because of trusting in them and an implication would be that an extreme narcissist should never be allowed in any position of power. For example: Can a narcissist who commits a crime from believing his own lies be held responsible for his crimes? Can his defense be that he truly believed his ball was stolen and was only trying to get it back when he committed the "said" crimes? In other words, everything he did to get his ball back was justified because his ball, according to him, was absolutely stolen. Also, since a narcissistic personality disorder is a mental health condition according to the DMS 5, a professional diagnosis could help him in his defense, but being that he has the disorder, he would never allow this to be brought up at trial. Now, what if the narcissist is found not guilty or gets a slap on the wrist because he truly believed in a lie of his own making (or in someone else's lie which he then made his own) and is therefore free to pursue his obsession of becoming rich and powerful so he can seek revenge on people who persecuted and prosecuted him? Worse, what if enough people who believed all along that his ball was stolen (when in reality it wasn't) and/or liked him enough that they helped him to become rich and powerful? Could such an insane story really happen? Narcissists like vp and others are adept at persuading people to trust them whether they believe their lies to be true or not? A narcissist can even be pleased that he can tell a whopper like God spoke audibly to him because of an out-of-season snowstorm/blizzard or another one can say he could shoot someone and, in both cases, believe they will not lose followers. How sure are they not only of themselves but in people's need or desire to believe in someone who will show them "the" way. My point is that an extreme narcissist can believe that he knows that he knows he is speaking truth when in reality he is not, and I know now how big a problem this becomes when others believe and support him. Does a Narcissist Believe His or Her Own Lies? | Psychology Today

I have two biological sons [14, 12] and two stepdaughters [adult]

She is beautiful. I think you will find no shortage of adorable clothing for girls!

He couldn't even tolerate simple questions after a class. Some teacher. Notice how few questions were allowed at the end of the Corps "teaching" on Romans. The transcript is available. I've posted most of the Q&A already. I could post the rest. Less than ten question were permitted. Victor's frustration is palpable in the text. Victor held forth for hours and hours and days and days on Romans. It was a small Corps class. It was the class LCM was in. These kids asked real questions. Victor HATED that, because he couldn't keep track of his bullshonta and didn't want to get caught. I am grateful to have had some fantastic teachers in my life. I am even grateful for the bad ones -- they provide contrast. Victor was one of the top three worst "teachers" I have ever encountered.

Perhaps he KNEW on a subconscious level. That could account for why he could never tolerate disagreement or anyone showing him up or exposing his bullshonta.