Leaderboard

I know exactly what you are going through. I was a musician and played lead guitar starting in high school open house bands, onto Berklee, into the corps and in the TWI corps dance bands, then staff bands, etc. I hated Way prod. VP had a vision of Lawrence Welk and had a hard time relating to us young hippies. Oldskool, I was then bugged for a few years I should put down my guitars because "God has better things for you." Right... Finally, after intense pressure on staff, I sold my '68 SG and a couple of other guitars worth a fortune now. It was driven into me that God did not want me doing music. It was with much regret I sold them. In fact, when I brought them in to sell to my friend who ran the local music store, I couldn't tell him the real reason I was selling them. We had been buddies and went to the clubs to see bands together on my down time on staff at Emporia. I had quite the "double life" while on staff there. Anyway, he was my friend, I told him I was selling them to get money for a motorcycle. He then said, keep your guitars, I'll lend you the money for the bike. I was stunned - a natural man offering to front me a loan and almost begging me to keep those guitars. Long story short, a few years later, I left TWI and moved to NYC. It took me two full years to think that maybe, just maybe, it was ok with God if I played again. I went to a pawnshop, picked up a guitar and started going to the blues jams on 14th Street at Dan Lynch's - the only blues club in the City. It went great. I then had to brush up on my rock, since I had been in TWI and on staff for so long - guitar players had come a long way since Clapton (who I could play note for note). So I woodshedded for a few months, learned EVH, Randy Rhodes, George Lynch, etc. - just learned their styles and licks. I ended up playing metal/hardcore/thrash in all - probably every single club in NYC - those were fun times - Metal up your a## (Metallica) in the '80s and early '90s in NYC - what an awesome time to be there! So, my point is - GO FOR IT! If it makes you happy - do it - enjoy it! My Brother is good friends with Billy Falc8on who is in Nashville and writes for Bon Jovi and has a lovely house in Nashville, with the pool, etc. with the royalties he's made from writing with Jon. It took awhile to get out of the TWI "waybrain" about their whole convoluted take on music. Venture forth... For me, God has "repaid the years the locusts have eaten" (Joel), and I have a nice little "vintage" collection and my '80s Kramer collection. God is good :)

If so, I hope it is far more encompassing.. than some little movement in California, or New York..

huh? We already have defined established churches??? They are in every town in America I imagine. Christians BUILT those churches from the ground up.......someone established them and it wasn't Muslims..... The only thing I see here....is eschewing what we have built as Christians and seeking to redefine it.....simply to avoid it.

I am unsure about this man made thing I keep hearing. If Christ is preached and God is worshiped in church....is it a man made thing because of the building? Who prints the bible? That is man made. Is it not man made if there is no structure and you meet by the river? Are institutions man made....or are they structured by men for the purpose of serving God? I think there is some confusion as to what constitutes man made.....maybe? Don't you think possibly God has His hand in the forming of churches for His purposes? I surely do.

Well, with the exception of Philemon, the epistles are directed to churches.....no? Pretty much the whole NT is directed to individual churches....Galatians the whole region. They are even called churches. The church that is at Ephesus, the church that is at Laodicea, Corinthians and on it goes.......if it is not directed at a specific church, then it is addressing how we conduct ourselves within those churches? Some are directed at how elders should conduct themselves within and without the church.......it also tells us what qualifies them to be elders of a church....but, no where do I see "Stay away" No where do I see it doesn't matter. The whole thing pretty much implies we should be a part of a church. Why else would we be told how to conduct ourselves in it? Why else would the Lord give us structure? It is a misnomer to believe that the 1st Century held worship services in the home. They broke bread, they prayed, but if you read throughout Acts...they were daily in the temple. In revelation, Jesus even judges the individual churches. He acknowledges them. I am not against bible studies in the home....but this should be in addition to time set aside to gather and worship. I am not saying that now in countries where there is persecution, they have to hide in homes. We don't have to. It even says Peter and John had a little singing ceremony in prison! :) But, if you can tell me where it says not to go to church....I will listen.

There isn't a great deal of persecution here Oldskool, but, I wonder how many who don't feel they need a church.....would fall on there face and thank God for one......if the right to assemble was gone and we had no where, but a church home to turn to to flee persecution. Are we able to withstand that on our own? What makes us think we can withstand all the other barrages and voices that call out to us.....without some structure and guidance? That is why many in countries where there is severe persecution pray so for us. We have it so easy.....and we take what we have for granted. It is tough enough to get ones own family to stick out the tough times. But, a church family, in the face of opposition or out is bound together in love of Him. It is interesting to me that you mention that verse about gathering in His name. Even with the quickest glance of context it is evident that those verses are speaking of forgiveness and discipline within the church(home bible study) It references how leaders and elders should discipline and restore those who have erred. Structure. From the Lord Himself. Jesus is also acknowledging the Mosaic law of two or more regarding how many witness you need to bring a charge. Chapter 18 starts off with instructions about humility 1-6 punishment of offenders 7-11, 5-9 speaks about the offended brother. The rest of the chapter speaks about forgiveness. How many times should I forgive my brother? Interestingly enough........in the MIDDLE of this chapter is the parable of the Lost Sheep. 12-14 How do you think this fits in? It is the Lord who finds us and carries us back to .....what? The structure and safety of the flock with Him as the head. We are not meant to wander alone. If the point of that verse is how many people are needed for Him to be there....please explain to me about Job, Jeremiah in the dung pit, Jonah. Paul saying....all have forsaken but....John on the Isle of Patmos.....Joseph in a pit, dungeon, or jail..... I don't believe those verses are encouragement to not find a church, but they are encouragement TO find one. What I want to know is......who is to say, when two or more gather.....that Christ is magnified?

I don`t think there is a one size fits all...you must go to church you must subscribe to an offshoot you must be with like minded people therapy no therapy..etc. For 5 yrs post twi I was in the same stagnant mindset...my arrogance in my knowledge of scripture..my confiidence that I had the truth and every one else was stupid...prevented any healing or moving on...I was hopeless doomed to operating principles that didn`t work no matter how scrupulously applied, and inevitably blaming myself for the lack of results. In the avatar movie there is a line that to me describes our mindset to a t... *It is hard to fill a cup that is already full* Meaning if we think we know it all, think that our knowledge makes us spiritual, enlightened, our beliefs the only possible conclusion...what could thos idiots in the church teach ME?? We limit ourselves ...there isn`t room to learn from people with whom God has guided on a different path, different lessons learned ...different long suits mastered. I have learned a great deal from our little country church. Love, support, encouragement, recognizing and valuing each individual and the contributions that the unique insight developed through their own spiritual journey. Some churches we have attended have been better for us than others...no doubt they suit the people that attend just fine, they just weren`t for us where we were at at the time....a couple were even nearly as poisonous and destructive as twi... I have met some outstanding spiritual individuals inside and outside the church. Meeting wonderful spirit filled christians in my experience doesn`t seem to be limited to a particular denomination, and they seem to be able to b able to lend perspective and guidance that is new and refreshing after our twi experience. What I am trying to say is that I have learned not to discredit an individual or the value of what they might have to impart because of the label they wear. Divisiveness is a twi trait that will keep us forever isolated if we let it :( Amen I wish I had said it, that covers it nicely :)

I did not mean to start any disagreements or arguments. I will say that Geisha, is probably one of the best, articulate Bible "teachers" I've read and whose posts I have enjoyed. She knows it, and I believe, lives it. I also very much respect Tom and Chockful. All of us see things differently and what works best for our lives right now. My sister just loves her Baptist Church, and I've gone with her to it. Its very nice. But, just not for me currently. Maybe I will go one day, who knows. I value Geisha's input immensely and think we need to just stand back a bit and agree to disagree :)