JustSayNO

I hear ya, but if that was the case, we wouldnt have Paw asking for suggestions, which brings me to why I suggested a highly caffinated area-because Paw asked for suggestions. this bickering isnt gonna do anything so something has to change whether we like it or not. Mr. Linder & friends have to be sitting there roaring wth laughter at us right now, slapping each other on the back saying" Yep, when you leave The Way see what happens" damn, cant people just agree to disagree, I guess not, or I wouldnt be writing this.

BUT, that would give definition to the forum area and a reason for banning and not just because of their view, it wold prove a harassing and destrucive intention and THAT would be grounds for banning.

EXACTLY at least I think since i dont use that category, but a sub category for when things get out of bounds or someone "wants" to start a controversial topic "About The Way"

neither- a fact It could be a compliment, since the more you do it the more skillful you become.

LOL, I think 17,000+ posts makes you a professional poster Not accusing you of ripping people apart, but you fall into the category of a professional poster. Most casual posters are not looking to get into a debate, they just want to share a hurt, an expreience or a view point. The longer someone posts the more likely they are of being willing to or wanting to debate a topic. The more you debate it the more proficient you get, hence a "Proffesional Poster" The average new person and casual poster does not want to get into the debate so they end up either not posting or get driven away without getting any help. having a seperate area for the "hardcore" allows the debate but gives a defined arena in which to "have at it". That's my point, everyone can have their cake and eat it too.

How about a subcategory"About The Way -Lite" were people feel they can express themselves and ask honest questions without the fear of being attacked or belittled. And if the topic gets too serious either a new thread can be made in the main forum or the thread could be moved to there. Actually, now that I think about it while I'm writing, I think maybe the main About The Way category should have the respectful enviornment and make a seperate subcategory for when it gets overboard like "About the Way w/extra caffine(Dark roast)- were the gloves can come off" This way the lurkers and the casual posters can feel free to post their ideas, views and experiences without fear of being ripped apart by "Proffesional Posters" Ebay just changed it's policies on feedback for just ths same reason. People weren't leaving honest feedback because the sellers were witholding their feedback until the buyer left theirs, and if they left neg. then the seller would too.

But given the emtional state of both sides even if a decssion was made on an approppriate action it would still involve Pawtucket implimenting said action. AND personally speaking I dont believe this issue has anything to do with whether someone agrees with VPW, Craig, The Way, PFAL, an experience or whatever. That is just were the point of division is being seen most. It comes down to how people are treating each other, their communtication, care, concern and RESPECT for each other or lack there of. Being a website it is very easy to be desensitized to people and their experiences. Many have been here for so long and heard the same story told so many times in so many ways that it gets old(not to take away from the seriousness of it)and people tend to start getting short with each other. Since information coming out of The Way has been drying up more so in the last couple years, people tend to rehash old topics and they start to microscopically rip things apart for lack of new information. So old disagreements that have been repeated 100 times now are like an insect bite that has been scratched till it bleeds. It's painfull to even think about it let alone listen to someone repeat it again. It's a vicious circle and with no new info coming out, the old stuff is going to get rehashed again and again and the bitterness is only gonna get worst. not meaning any disrespect toward anyone, but those that have been here the longest AND in the middle of everything are least likely to see their own desensitzation and harshness. I hate to use it as an example but we talk about how can the Way Corp not see the world around them and be so out of touch with reality, well what about those that have made this place their sanctuary, their comfort zone, their purpose in life for so many years? Again, not judging, just making an observation. This place has done wonders for many people that needed information to help them leave, help others, etc. and then they moved on. Others have moved in and made this place their home, not saying that it's wrong. I guess what I'm saying is the more crap you know about people the harder it is to respect their opinions. And some have poured their hearts out for years here. No wonder there is a foodfight.

No arguement from me, I'm not really in all the "this side", "that side", I'm just noticing certain tendencies like my second to last post and commenting on certain comments with what has been written by Paw. I honestly take the outside looking in and noticing that there are some very bitter people here regardless of their views on Both sides. And that they will never be convinced of anything other than what they want to believe, right or wrong.

About Us Welcome to the GreaseSpot Cafe! GreaseSpot Cafe is a gathering place, bringing together people and information. We welcome all who have an interest in The Way International, including former followers, current followers, and those who may have friends or family members who are involved. Our mission is to provide information that tells the other side of the story about The Way International and its trustees. Our hope is that GreaseSpot Cafe serves as a place where those who have been impacted by The Way can make connections with people and information which will support their particular process of recovery. We want people to be able to make informed decisions regarding their past, present, and future affiliations with The Way International (TWI). Whether you are standing with TWI, thinking about leaving, trying to help someone else get out, or looking for support from others who have left, we believe the information here is highly relevant and well worth considering. Look at our WayDale Documents section and see for yourself what information has come to light as a result of lawsuits against TWI, resignations of various limb and branch coordinators, letters from Martindale to the Way Corps regarding controversial issues and policies, notes from actual Way Corps meetings, and much more. Consider the longstanding patterns of conspiracy at the trustee level, questionable doctrines and practices, ongoing cover-ups, and sexual abuse of numerous women at the hands of certain TWI leaders. It's no wonder that TWI is desperately trying to shield their followers from this information by warning them off the Internet. We think that if you give this information an honest reading, you'll see that you haven't been told the whole story. Browse through our forums and read what people are saying about their experiences in TWI. Find old friends or make new ones. Elicit support or offer an insight. Share information or simply read and consider. The opinions expressed here are often passionate and while disagreements are not uncommon, the online Ex-Way community is a great arena for conversing and connecting with others. You may get caught in a food fight now and then, but unlike TWI, GreaseSpot Cafe is a place where questions are encouraged and people make up their own minds. No Shirt, No Shoes... No Problem! Last Updated ( Thursday, 08 June 2006 ) Our mission is to provide information that tells the other side of the story about The Way International and its trustees. Actually that statement implies adverse, opposite or Anti even though it's quoted as an EX-Way community. You may get caught in a food fight now and then...Dang-we must be at a feast!

I can see it now! What’s that I hear in the distance…. {laughter from afar} Who dareth laugh… {chuckling, laughing and weezing} Who is that laughing… {really, cant you tell… more laughter} Ok, give me a hint… {cornfields… ha ha ha} O God, not them… {Yep, it’s us, we knew you would tear each other apart when you left or when we cast you out} groan… {yep, look at dem debil spirits ripping you all apart and causing division} NO…..It cant be true…. {you claim that we Mark and Avoid people for having different views and shun anything that goes against our way of thought and belief… look at this thread promoting that which you detest in us.. oh, ye hypocrites} cry… {Welcome Back...} Runs and hides from the flames about to hit

I've just read through this thread, and although I haven't been involved with most, if any of the threads your talking about, I do think that there have been a few "Clicks" that have formed over the years here. And from what has been said in this thread, some of the problems could probably be resolved by just enforcing the rules. -Some have talked of personal attacks, guess what - it's against the rules - report it -Harassing behavior is not alowed- if it's happening- report it -All are welcome- sounds like it means that this is a public place -Respect, be courteous, be polite- anything else is against the rules -report it -These forums are meant to be a place of discussion, where ideas and debates are encouraged. We welcome your opinion.- I agree that if freedom of speech and ideas is hindered it makes us no better than The Way- It just comes down to "How" it's presented. Anyway, there is a solution to the problem in my opinion. It's no that peple are disagreeing, its that its turning callous, rude, personal and even vicious at times, which are all against the rules of this site. Maybe if we uphod that standard that will ban those that need it and NOT because of their political/religious/doctrinal views. Maybe some on both sides of that fence need booting or just an attitude adjustment.(sorry, have to laugh, anyone who has left da Way has some sort of an attitude ) Now this is just my opinion and is not intended at anyone in particular. It just sounded like a solution was being sought and i thought I'd add an option that might have been overlooked in the heat of the moment.

Steel-Toed Cowboy Boots

Brilliant Idea. [chuckle/cry] Most people need professional help after leaving The Way. Why be sorry, this place harbours information kept from those involved, it gives a place to share and vent, it even gives a place to ask questions. I agree that harbouring hurt will happen to those that cant seem to get past The Way and get stuck in a hurtful loop. But it can also if people choose, be a place to remind us where we've been and how far we've come since leaving. But by no means does it replace professional counciling. So again I think it would be an awesome addition to the site to add a proffesional help page with different resourses for people to choose from. Not to belittle John Knapp, but having a page of resources dedicated to proffesional help in the area of cults would keep it unbiased and more comfortable for people to see there is help and choices. Now of course John could be the first on the page

Well at least we know who posted. John sent me a very gracious email explaining what happened and asked for me to share it with everyone. But since it appears he got his login registerd and has posted there is no need. As far as I'm concerned it was a system glitch and John and I are kosher on this. I came home and my email was flooded with responses from modcow, Paw, and John Knapp. It's good to know it was addresed quickly. Now To find out How it happened and to try and prevent it from happening again. As suggested by others I've changed my password. The reason I caught it as quick as I did was because I got a Topic Subscription Reply Notification email when Jim replied to it. So in my thinking, if there is a glitch in the system it might be wise for people to make sure this is turned on or check in your profile under posts to see if they are all yours.

UHM, This is strange and Paw may want to look into this but I did not post that message and I am not quite sure how it got here. No one has access to my computer so I'm going to guess that either this is a glitch that another poster's message got posted under my name or my account has been hacked. I'm gonna email John to verify it was him and see what username he uses.

EDIT 7/8/08 1:22am I DID NOT POST THIS! IT MAY BE FROM HIM. I EMAILED HIM TO VERIFY AND FIND OUT HOW IT GOT UNDER MY NAME AND SENT PAW A PM ABOUT THIS ALSO. Hi, guys, I noticed your post on me from reading my web stats. Thanks for all the visitors from greasespotcafe.com to KnappFamilyCounseling.com! To answer a couple of questions, I was not a member of TWI. The old trancenet.net site, still available but not being currently developed, was the work of a number of people. Most of the work on the TWI pages was done by a woman named Kelly. I provided the space, the html, the design, and some editorial consultation when Kelly asked for it. The credit really belongs to her. I was a member of Transcendental Meditation for 23 years. I write some about my experiences on my counseling web site. I have worked with over 2000 former cult members since 1995. I am now a licensed master social worker (therapist) specializing in recovery from cults. I have worked with a number of TWI members over the years. But I am still learning about TWI from my clients. I do not do "exit counseling." I work with people who have left a destructive group but continue to struggle with difficulties in their lives, stretching from depression to financial/career difficulties to difficulties with social or family relationship problems and more. If I can answer any questions about my work, please don't hesitate to post here or write me directly at jmknapp53@gmail.com. Thanks again for thinking of me! John M. Knapp, LMSW Therapist. Counselor. Coach. Cult Counselor.

I'll say that I love your attitude. It's refreshing to see someone around here taking this approach. Not to insult anyone here but over the last few years it has seemed to me that those that came here for help, got it and moved on. It has left some who have a lasting gudge and hatred and hurt that cant be overcome it seems in the wake(in some it's understandable). I've found myself, shying away from here more and more because of it. So it's quite refreshing to see as you put it "someone taking the high road". Although my couriosity would have loved to know what his response was, I'm glad to see you were able to take that first stretch in 20yrs and reach out to him. even if it wasnt the greatest reunion, it sounds like you have a start to possibly rebuilding that friedship again. I've known him for many years as well and his initial response was in character for him, I hope for both of your sakes that his willingness to continue communicating is genuine and not just an outreach attempt. Good luck and don't lose your awesome perspective and stray from that high road, love can win a multitude of battles that harshness will never comprehend. -jsn

Great letter Lucy, I think your heart on the matter should hit home. I wish more people involved would read it and take it to heart and understand that we didn't leave them(most) or God, we left the ministry, an organization, and a very flawed one at that. I know this is none of my business, but, I'm not sure how he is going to react to having his personal letters aired out on the web. I'm sure he is aware of you posting here, if not from personal observation, then from those in Ohio that monitor this site. If your heart is to really rekindle a friendship, although I'd love to know the outcome, it might be wiser and more productive to keep it private. I know if I was in his position, I'd be quite upset that my personal life is being spewed in public and it would definately taint my response. Of course this is just my opinion. I hope for your sake it turns out well and you gain back a long lost friend. Now, if he doesn't give a rat's behind, then give us all the juicey details. All the best.

Odd as it may be, I have it from a very reliable source that he is still in. Whether he is still full time Way Corp or not is unsure. If he is not paid staff any more then this actually would make alot of sense.

Nope he is still quite involved. He has been in Georgia since 1995/6 and was (is?) a BC there. When he first went there people said he would very seldom play or sing except at big functions. After craigster left I hear that he started playing a lot more and seemed to enjoy it again.

Although he hasn't left TWI, it looks like he is branching out and doing his own thing. According to his myspace page he just released an album. (probably his first secular music since before joining TWI) I will have to say(ducks head quickly to avoid flying objects) it's nice to see that some of these TWI lifers are starting to feel comfortable enough to stretch out and pursue there own ambitions. http://www.myspace.com/roadmanshammer http://roadmanshammer.com/

The first link was missing the "w" in andrewtobias no biggie, just a typo

I think your right, sounds familiar

Actually I have a copy of the 1971 LIFE Magazine around here someplace in a box. It was an article written about The Way and I think it was titled "The Groovy Christians of Rye New York" It seems that da Way was busy in the news that year. I looked online to see if I could find a copy of it to link or cut and paste. If I feel overly ambitous or extremely bored I'll concider typing it up for yur viewing pleasure. Not likely.but maybe.

I burned it on Uncle Harry Day.