Ham

I think because the vicster exuded *something* that disarmed us. To the extent people watched him in the motor home, the coming and goings of women and the like, and merely disregarded it.. that the obvious just could not be.. maybe the words "entranced", "bewitched" or "fascinated" apply here. And they still apply, to some I've met. I personally think there is more to it than a character having an excess of personality or something. perhaps he worked for some rather dark forces.. consider how he could easily sell conspiracy theories and the like.. and people lapped it up like there was no tomorrow.. stuff that could logically disregarded with little thought or confrontation..

One of you "elders" is worse than Esau.. you sold your soul and heritage for one stinking tank of gas.. if you are reading this, it might be an "oh my god" moment.. just think back..

and after he died, the veil of secrecy is slowly removed, his "ministry" basically fell apart, his children were ostracised and sent away with no inheritance, his wife was shamefully treated, the group at least for a while lost its precious tax exempt status.. roughly 97 percent of followers fled in later years, many top leaders are (in my observation) watched and viewed with suspicion, some are viewed as having committed war crimes, and.. the vicster's *great work* is basically buried. Except for a few illegal copies, here and there. It it was a vote, I'd choose "Faustian deal".

After reading account after account of the sexual predation, taking bribes (special "offerings for da manogawd and such), along with its lack of report to the irs, drugging of women, intellectual robbery (plagiarism).. how is it that he actually got away with it? Apparently he didn't exactly "get away with it" prior to 1942.. at least in his church. but after this, he seemed able to do pretty much as he pleased. I didn't even hear of any of this prior to Waydale and Greasespot.. granted.. in the late seventies and eighties twi had the resources to just make the "problems" go away. But I've read accounts of his predation on women in the late sixties and early seventies, when twi was really still in its formative years. No angry husband was able to "off" him.. although he admitted a couple of people tried to, in the early years.. never said why. does anyone know when this occurred? No charges of plagiarism, or copyright infringement, with the one exception: the blue sing along the way books. But those didn't bear his name either. I don't know if I'd say his hand picked goons were competent enough to really protect him. Was he just that lucky? Or did he make some kind of Faustian deal of sorts?

From Skyrider on another thread: you pathetic "old timers" who snagged junior in this disgrace: what are you doing, that is any bit different? The only thing I can say that MIGHT be different, is number 9 and 10 on the list. For now at least. I can't say either way. The relevance here though, even if you didn't partake in gramps sin, were you AWARE of it? If so, how does that affect your "qualifications" to lead? Do you still sweep gramps real legacy under the rug? The worst part.. you raised junior to believe that gramps was some kind of bible super hero..

which makes me ask.. why would someone with a half a brain or conscience want to resurrect it? The NOVICE running it considers the old corps a success.. apparently he isn't aware, or considers your observations of vic and the old corps to be of any relevance:

I think we can trace the vicster's despotic tendencies back to 1942. Maybe even earlier.. in his interview with Whiteside, he describes crying his little eyes out and telling "god" if he didn't give him something he didn't have to back down on, that he could take his religion and stick it somewhere else.. I don't remember ever seeing him in the position where he "backed down" on ANYTHING.. maybe someone else has.. who knows.. maybe he made some kind of "deal" with a different kind of entity in the office across from the gas pumps..

not that I am so important as to quote myself.. but wasn't the "prevailing" (pun intended) attitude.. all we owe *them*.. is "da VERD"?

In a general sense.. or rather culturally.. I suppose I still consider myself "Christian".. every half-decent thought the "representative" of *our* religion expressed as far as love of God (who I refuse to attempt to define anymore).. and neighbor.. who I can define.. I embrace.

Yeah.. the explanations. We don't believe in a trinity.. don't think the dead are conscious in any capacity.. don't think good works are necessary for a *christian* lifestyle.. but we agreed that sex generally wasn't ok outside of marriage.. except for exempt cases, like relieving herr manogawd and immediate subordinates.. generally.. were not any resemblance to Christianity in any cultural or moral sense.. what then WERE we.. followers.. of what?

Duck of Doom.. actually.. I think loy fit that role admirably.. even *uncle* howie knew full time corps wasn't exactly financially "with it"..

Good topic Groucho.. personally, I wouldn't believe that the sun rises every morning based on the victer's assertions.. I'd have to have completely independent corroboration..

from your reference Waysider, the movie scored: maybe that's the connection to HA.. the critics can't find anything positive to say.. In regards to *mr* allen, if I dropped anything, it would be the "duck" part.

Heh.. no, I figured that out the moment I walked out of mr. he whose claim to fame is not eating bread and vegetables together limb coordinator's office. It's been a few years.. I usually don't use these kind of words.. but he was (probably still is) a friggin moron.. As leadership, and as it goes for human beings in general, he was probably about as spiritually and intellectually inept as they had to offer.. in one brief moment, I realized we were following fruitcakes..

what I was referring to didn't involve any other person.. happened before twi days. I can't think of a single twi induced "prophecy" that ever really panned out.. this suggests to at least me personally.. nothing of any real spiritual significance was generated by the "founder" of twi or those at the root to begin with.. just a lot of vain boasting and such..

Just a nickname he picked up here. I have no idea what the significance is, or even where it started.. Maybe its because someone figured he had the brain of the size of a duck's? who knows..

Yep.. they are planning grey squirrel genocide.. some say Benjamin Franklin introduced the grey squirrel to Britain.. others say they were imported in the Victorian era to "amuse" the aristocracy.. then the yankee squirrels did what yankee squirrels do.. reproduce like a plague.. warning: the article is silly, but factually correct. Best I can tell anyway.. http://www.scarysquirrel.org/vacation/ukcull/index.html I also understand that the greys carry a form of "squirrel pox" that the red squirrels cannot develop immunity to..

I dunno. I have had three or so said "prophecies".. all were personal dreams, pre twi days.. two of them have occured.. and when they played out, it was like watching a movie unfold having pre-read the script.. the last one, hasn't happened. I keep looking.. I'd repeat it here, if anyone thinks they might have a clue..

gawd forbid we have any "homo" pre-disposition in squirrels.. yep.. makes sense.. if one can't tolerate a "homo" pet.. willing to "blow away" rover for.. (self censored description of vile acts) surely we can't condone the same in squirrels..

I mean.. isn't the whole "exercise" rather self defeating? Yep.. rid the woods of Squirrel *menace* to merely make room for more Squirrels? And remember, mr. duck. When you look over your shoulder, or in the rear view mirror, I am the one you missed..

OK Bolshevik. Spill the beans.. the only picture I get of this scene is a well past middle aged half drunken.. whatever.. blasting away in the woods with something like an eight or ten gauge shotgun (just the enough spread of shot to insure "victory") to rid the holy land of Squirrel infestation. Tell me it isn't true..

Maybe what people enjoyed and connected with in the woods had nothing to do with herr vey to begin with..

Squirrel "thinning" gigs? Yeah Frank.. they told us it was "home".. didn't they. Normally one does not evict "family" on a mere spiritual suspicion of sorts..

or a sore for sight eyes..

what I wonder.. why do they even bother.. maybe its like the sowers experience.. they have a rather *few* long term wayfers or staffers or rejects kids.. the *interesting* part.. they would have my kids as well, if they possibly could. They would roll out the red carpet, if there was the remote possibility they'd be involved again. *They* would welcome them with open arms, as long as the old timers (parent) didn't have any input anymore. Actually, they did roll out the red carpet. And my one kid asked what to expect. I said.. they will treat you like ROYALTY.. for a while. Then come the thumbscrews later.. they would re-enact a "twig" from 1974, if that is what it took.. friggin morons.. too late. The kids are looking at problems infinitely more difficult, than your little religion seems to be able to handle. And .. they know it.. Hmm. Hey.. you staffers and such.. you might just find your kids in the same position.. what do you think.. Maybe I'll find a few in math 101.. who knows..